Is Atmos (front height speakers) worth doing if only 3 feet above mains? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Is Atmos (front height speakers) worth doing if only 3 feet above mains?

My only options are to place the atmos front heights on top of my entertainment center. The height between the mains and atmos would be 36-40 inches. I would build some kind of a stand to angle the atmos down to listening position. I'm still debating on which atmos speakers. But likely a 2-way with a 4" and tweeter. As I need something small.

Thanks all.

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post #2 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
My only options are to place the atmos front heights on top of my entertainment center. The height between the mains and atmos would be 36-40 inches. I would build some kind of a stand to angle the atmos down to listening position. I'm still debating on which atmos speakers. But likely a 2-way with a 4" and tweeter. As I need something small.

Thanks all.
If the Atmos speakers are above your mains and not above you then it will sound as if the atmos effects are coming from your front speakers and not overhead. Have you considered the atmos add on modules that bounce the sound off the ceiling? I know they are not idea but they would probably work better at giving you the effect of sound overhead.

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post #3 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 01:14 PM
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The front soundstage will sound slightly taller. Not worth it. Any chance of putting a pair of small speakers high up on the side walls in line with your listening position?

Sanjay
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately my ceiling slants from 14 feet at the front of the room down to 9 feet at the listening position. So any chance of getting a good reflection seems impossible to me. Plus there is a huge ceiling fan right where the reflections would need to go. Side height isn't an option because the listening position is against the back wall. So I had to mount my rears to the sides already. So the only option is front height which is 3.5 feet higher than the listening position. Ugh.

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
Automation: Fire Cube - Harmony Hub- Insteon Plugs - Sensi Thermostat
Video Image: TCL 55r625 - Roku - nVidia Shield Pro 2019 - Xbox One X

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post #5 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
If the Atmos speakers are above your mains and not above you then it will sound as if the atmos effects are coming from your front speakers and not overhead. Have you considered the atmos add on modules that bounce the sound off the ceiling? I know they are not idea but they would probably work better at giving you the effect of sound overhead.
I meant to quote you in that the Atmos would be about 3.5 feet above the listening position whereas the mains are at ear level.

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
I meant to quote you in that the Atmos would be about 3.5 feet above the listening position whereas the mains are at ear level.
Thanks that's what I though. With them above the mains it will probably sound like an extension of the fronts and make it seem like you have really really tall fronts when the atmos effects are in a movie.

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post #7 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks that's what I though. With them above the mains it will probably sound like an extension of the fronts and make it seem like you have really really tall fronts when the atmos effects are in a movie.
OK thanks. So according the Dolby, front height speakers work if they are between 30-45 degrees from the listening position. After taking some measurements I would be 28.5 degrees. I wish I could really test this but since I would have to buy speakers and build a mount for them, it's not too easy.

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
Side height isn't an option because the listening position is against the back wall. So I had to mount my rears to the sides already.
Can you lower the surrounds so that they are closer to seated ear height?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
So according the Dolby, front height speakers work if they are between 30-45 degrees from the listening position.
30-45 degrees elevation (above seated ear height). How far are you from your front L/R speakers?

Sanjay
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
OK thanks. So according the Dolby, front height speakers work if they are between 30-45 degrees from the listening position. After taking some measurements I would be 28.5 degrees. I wish I could really test this but since I would have to buy speakers and build a mount for them, it's not too easy.
Are you using 2 or 4 atmos speakers? If 4 speakers then the front could be between 30 and 55 degrees with the back atmos speakers between 125 and 150 degrees. If just 2 atmos speakers then they need to be closer to directly over head at 65 to 100 degrees.
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Can you lower the surrounds so that they are closer to seated ear height? 30-45 degrees elevation (above seated ear height). How far are you from your front L/R speakers?
Rears are pretty high up, so I could certainly bring them down about 2 feet. So rear height could potentially work if they were placed up at the ceiling. But what speaker could I use the would allow me to angle so far down? In ceiling is not an option.

It's 138" from MLP to LCR.

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post
Are you using 2 or 4 atmos speakers? If 4 speakers then the front could be between 30 and 55 degrees with the back atmos speakers between 125 and 150 degrees. If just 2 atmos speakers then they need to be closer to directly over head at 65 to 100 degrees.
This would be for 2 speakers only.

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
Automation: Fire Cube - Harmony Hub- Insteon Plugs - Sensi Thermostat
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
This would be for 2 speakers only.
OK so ideally they would be 65-100 degrees. How high are your surround speakers right now?

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post #13 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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OK so ideally they would be 65-100 degrees. How high are your surround speakers right now?
82" to center of baffle. I know they are probably too high. I mounted them before I knew much about placement. And they are directly on the sides. Should I bring down to ear level or slightly higher? I think read something about 1.25X the height of mains?






Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
This would be for 2 speakers only.
If you do as sdurani suggested and move the surround speakers to where the tweeters are closer to ear height then you could use SVS elevation speakers up high on the sides like at 65-100 degrees like in this diagram.

That way your surrounds and fronts would be the bed layer down at ear level and the SVS speakers would be up high as the atmos speakers. and you would have the required separation

https://www.svsound.com/pages/prime-elevation
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking of these speakers since they have the nice angling options.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 02:55 PM
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I was thinking of these speakers since they have the nice angling options.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ck-each/1.html
Oh yeah those will work and at a much better price too.

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post #17 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
Rears are pretty high up, so I could certainly bring them down about 2 feet. So rear height could potentially work if they were placed up at the ceiling.
The whole point of Atmos is to separate sounds around you versus sounds above you. You will get that effect by lowering the surround speakers closer to ear height and adding height speakers much higher above them. The speakers high up on the side walls will create a soundstage between them, complete with overhead imaging. This is much more in keeping with the intent of Atmos than a slightly taller front soundstage.
Quote:
But what speaker could I use the would allow me to angle so far down?
Any small bookshelf speaker should work. Even better if you can find ones from the same manufacturer as your other speakers (to maintain consistent sound all around). Like another pair of NHT Super Zero 2.1 speakers. To aim the speakers down, you just need flexible wall mounts.



https://www.nhthifi.com/products/107...round-speakers

Quote:
It's 138" from MLP to LCR.
At that distance, speakers placed 36-40 inches above ear height would result in a 15-16 degree elevation angle. Not even close the 30-45 degrees of elevation that Dolby recommends.

Sanjay

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post #18 of 19 Old 12-02-2019, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all. I ordered the Boston Acoustic SoundWares I linked above. 4.5" with 3/4" tweeter coax. Got em for $150 shipped. They have very flexible mounts for wall and corner mounting. I'll be placing these on the side walls where it meets the ceiling. Can't wait....

Audio: Denon AVR-X3400H - Behringer NX6000D - miniDSP
Speakers: LCR: DIYSoundGroup Cobalt 8s | Surrounds: NHT SuperOnes | Atmos: Boston Acoustic SoundWare | Subs: Marty cube w/ Ultimax UM18 and (4) JBL CS1214s
Automation: Fire Cube - Harmony Hub- Insteon Plugs - Sensi Thermostat
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Originally Posted by ghart999 View Post
Thanks all. I ordered the Boston Acoustic SoundWares I linked above. 4.5" with 3/4" tweeter coax. Got em for $150 shipped. They have very flexible mounts for wall and corner mounting. I'll be placing these on the side walls where it meets the ceiling. Can't wait....
Looks like a good choice.

I see that they tilt down 40°, which is pretty good.
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