$6K LCR, what should I be considering? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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$6K LCR, what should I be considering?

Looking for LCR upgrade for HT. 50/50 music/ht with emphasis on music. Prefer low to moderate listening levels, but still want fast transients and above average dynamics at way less than reference level listening. Projector/fixed screen so speakers must be flat black. Room is 13' 6" X 25 X 10' 6", opens in rear. Already more than adequately pressurized by subwoofers. Listening preference is classic rock and am always looking for realistic percussion drum and cymbal sounds. On paper, I like the Ascend Acoustics tower/Horizon center with RAAL upgrades. I also keep looking at Salks'. What am I missing that should be considered? Appreciate the insights.
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post #2 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:19 AM
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Are you looking at 3 Identical towers? Or two towers with matching center?

Revel F208’s.

If you want huge sound, Klipsch RF7iii’s would be sweet.

These retail speakers can be discounted to fit your budget, the Ascends and Salks cannot being internet direct.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #3 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:23 AM
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I would put JTR speakers on your short list as well...
flat black to minimize reflections is the standard finish.
JTR 210RT for left and right mains, and the 210RM as a center channel will handle pretty much anything you can throw at them in your space.
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post #4 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:27 AM
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$6K LCR, what should I be considering?

Double post.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)

Last edited by Russdawg1; 12-05-2019 at 10:55 AM.
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post #5 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:30 AM
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martin logan electrostatic speakers
danny sound labs synergy horn speakers
tannoy dual concentric speakers
jbl horn speakers




you really need to listen to them and find out what you like and not like. All these manufactures make a gazzzzzillion different models. Get a much cheaper, all black model for industrial installation, instead of one with pretty wood veneer. I would limit myself to electrostatic and horn if you want "fast transients" and "dynamics." Watch some youtube videos if you are not familiar with the technology. I would eliminate pretty much all speakers that stick a tweeter (even a very good RAAL) and one or two woofers to a simple, rectangular box.
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post #6 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:49 AM
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wow, that's amazing!
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post #7 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Looking for LCR upgrade for HT. 50/50 music/ht with emphasis on music. Prefer low to moderate listening levels, but still want fast transients and above average dynamics at way less than reference level listening. Projector/fixed screen so speakers must be flat black. Room is 13' 6" X 25 X 10' 6", opens in rear. Already more than adequately pressurized by subwoofers. Listening preference is classic rock and am always looking for realistic percussion drum and cymbal sounds. On paper, I like the Ascend Acoustics tower/Horizon center with RAAL upgrades. I also keep looking at Salks'. What am I missing that should be considered? Appreciate the insights.
Salk would be something to really consider if you wanted a gorgeous custom finish.

Your Ascend idea sounds very good as they have a matte black option and AVS member reviews have been stellar.

The F206 would be a solid choice too except Revel's black is shiny piano black.

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post #8 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Are you looking at 3 Identical towers? Or two towers with matching center?

Revel F208’s.

If you want huge sound, Klipsch RF7iii’s would be sweet.

These retail speakers can be discounted to fit your budget, the Ascends and Salks cannot being internet direct.


I have limited (35") of height under my fixed screen, so I'm thinking I'll most likely end up with a center speaker in the middle. Looking at the Ascend Horizon with RAAL.
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post #9 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent.5 View Post
martin logan electrostatic speakers
danny sound labs synergy horn speakers
tannoy dual concentric speakers
jbl horn speakers




you really need to listen to them and find out what you like and not like. All these manufactures make a gazzzzzillion different models. Get a much cheaper, all black model for industrial installation, instead of one with pretty wood veneer. I would limit myself to electrostatic and horn if you want "fast transients" and "dynamics." Watch some youtube videos if you are not familiar with the technology. I would eliminate pretty much all speakers that stick a tweeter (even a very good RAAL) and one or two woofers to a simple, rectangular box.
I'm just trying to narrow things down before I start driving and perhaps flying and ordering for serious listening. I'm patient, will take my time and enjoy the hunt. I like the JBLs.....the ones I cannot afford (synthesis) and would be stupid overkill anyways. Perhaps their new HDI line coming out in January? I'm not impressed with the dispersion of the Martin Logan's for ht use. In a perfect world Klipsch Cornwalls would be 4 inches shorter and be $2000 each. lol. I'll check out the Danny Sound Labs Synergy horns. Thanks

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post #10 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Salk would be something to really consider if you wanted a gorgeous custom finish.

Your Ascend idea sounds very good as they have a matte black option and AVS member reviews have been stellar.

The F206 would be a solid choice too except Revel's black is shiny piano black.

Which Salks' would you recommend? I already ruled out the Revels....no flat black. I would like to hear from a Ascend tower/Horizon with RAAL combination owner. I think they might offer the "point of diminishing return" performance at the $6K max point I'm looking for.
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post #11 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Looking for LCR upgrade for HT. 50/50 music/ht with emphasis on music. Prefer low to moderate listening levels, but still want fast transients and above average dynamics at way less than reference level listening. Projector/fixed screen so speakers must be flat black. Room is 13' 6" X 25 X 10' 6", opens in rear. Already more than adequately pressurized by subwoofers. Listening preference is classic rock and am always looking for realistic percussion drum and cymbal sounds. On paper, I like the Ascend Acoustics tower/Horizon center with RAAL upgrades. I also keep looking at Salks'. What am I missing that should be considered? Appreciate the insights.
You pretty much have your pick of the litter with that budget. Ascend or Salk would be a great choice.
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post #12 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
I have limited (35") of height under my fixed screen, so I'm thinking I'll most likely end up with a center speaker in the middle. Looking at the Ascend Horizon with RAAL.

Ah well Revel F208’s plus C208 Center

Or Klipsch RF7iii’s and RC64iii Center.

The Ascends will be good too.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #13 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Which Salks' would you recommend? I already ruled out the Revels....no flat black. I would like to hear from a Ascend tower/Horizon with RAAL combination owner. I think they might offer the "point of diminishing return" performance at the $6K max point I'm looking for.
I'd PM Dennis Murphy; AVS member and speaker designer who has consulted at Salk.

The BMR they sell now is 100 percent his design but he's worked on others as well and should have better recommendations for Salk than I do.

@PhilharmonicDennis

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/membe...nicdennis.html

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post #14 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 11:36 AM
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In a perfect world Klipsch Cornwalls would be 4 inches shorter and be $2000 each. lol. I'll check out the Danny Sound Labs Synergy horns. Thanks



Good luck on your search. I found this thread about a diy synergy horn home theater setup here on AVS


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ayton-prv.html




and we even have an official thread


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...thread-15.html


and a new horn that may be perfect for your application


https://danleycinema.com/wp-content/...03/CSH-496.pdf

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post #15 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Good luck on your search. I found this thread about a diy synergy horn home theater setup here on AVS


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ayton-prv.html




and we even have an official thread


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...thread-15.html


and a new horn that may be perfect for your application


https://danleycinema.com/wp-content/...03/CSH-496.pdf

Very very intriguing. The DIY looks pretty complex. Are there kits available? At first glance, the labor of building a kit would be approaching the cost of going to Danley from the start.
I definitely want to listen to these. Thanks.
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post #16 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 12:09 PM
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Very very intriguing. The DIY looks pretty complex. Are there kits available? At first glance, the labor of building a kit would be approaching the cost of going to Danley from the start.
I definitely want to listen to these. Thanks.



None that I am aware of. If there is a kit, count me in as well.
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post #17 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I'd PM Dennis Murphy; AVS member and speaker designer who has consulted at Salk.

The BMR they sell now is 100 percent his design but he's worked on others as well and should have better recommendations for Salk than I do.

@PhilharmonicDennis

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/membe...nicdennis.html
Thanks gajCA. That's a good idea that just hadn't crossed my mind. I've had one of his joint designs in my head for several years (Heil Heavens, with an aluminum Visaton driver and the big Heil AMT designed by Mr Murphy and built by Mr Salk) I've always been a drop dead sucker for Heil reproduction of drums and cymbals.
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post #18 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 12:19 PM
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Very very intriguing. The DIY looks pretty complex. Are there kits available? At first glance, the labor of building a kit would be approaching the cost of going to Danley from the start.
I definitely want to listen to these. Thanks.
I don't know about the Danley speakers, but DIY Sound Group does have kits for their speakers and with your budget nothing they have on offer is out of your price range.
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post #19 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 12:26 PM
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After 34 years working as a professional recording engineer, I chose Revel and feel they are some of the best sounding (and measuring) speakers I have heard, and I have heard a lot.

I'm using F208s, a C208 and F206s for my current 5.1 system.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html
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post #20 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 12:35 PM
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I recently upgraded from Revel F32 and C52. Now have Klipsch Forte 111 and Heresy as center.
Wish had done this years ago. You should be able to negotiate 3 Forte's 6K.
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post #21 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Looking for LCR upgrade for HT. 50/50 music/ht with emphasis on music. Prefer low to moderate listening levels, but still want fast transients and above average dynamics at way less than reference level listening. Projector/fixed screen so speakers must be flat black. Room is 13' 6" X 25 X 10' 6", opens in rear. Already more than adequately pressurized by subwoofers. Listening preference is classic rock and am always looking for realistic percussion drum and cymbal sounds. On paper, I like the Ascend Acoustics tower/Horizon center with RAAL upgrades. I also keep looking at Salks'. What am I missing that should be considered? Appreciate the insights.
You may also want to check out the KEF R series.

KEF R7: $1,999.99 x 2 = $3,999.98
KEF R2C: $1,199.99

Total: $5,199.97

That will put you in amazing audiophile territory

Main Room: 65'' Samsung KS8000; AVR: Denon AVR X-4500H; AMP: Monolith 3-Channel Amp; Center Channel: KEF R2C; L/R Channels: KEF R3; Atmos: KEF R8A; LFE: SVS-PB3000; UHD Blu-Ray Player: Sony UBP-X800; Gaming: PS4 Pro; Streaming Device: Apple TV 4K Secondary Room: 49'' Samsung MU7000; AVR: Denon AVR S-720W; Center Channel: Polk Signature S-35; L/R Channels: Polk Signature S-20; IEMs: Shure 846, Shure 535; DAC/Amp: Dragonfly Cobalt, JDS Labs C5D
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post #22 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 01:17 PM
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Thanks gajCA. That's a good idea that just hadn't crossed my mind. I've had one of his joint designs in my head for several years (Heil Heavens, with an aluminum Visaton driver and the big Heil AMT designed by Mr Murphy and built by Mr Salk) I've always been a drop dead sucker for Heil reproduction of drums and cymbals.
I guess some of the other AVS members haven't looked at your color restrictions for the speakers.

I'm sure Dennis will chime in or respond to a PM.

He's very very helpful and even when he had his own speaker line was not afraid to make recommendations outside of it.

Stand up guy.
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post #23 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 01:50 PM
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JTR or PSA

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post #24 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 02:21 PM
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I know you want flat black, but this too good of a deal. Focal Aria 948 with a free center channel for $2k.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...st-pair/1.html
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post #25 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Looking for LCR upgrade for HT. 50/50 music/ht with emphasis on music. Prefer low to moderate listening levels, but still want fast transients and above average dynamics at way less than reference level listening. Projector/fixed screen so speakers must be flat black. Room is 13' 6" X 25 X 10' 6", opens in rear. Already more than adequately pressurized by subwoofers. Listening preference is classic rock and am always looking for realistic percussion drum and cymbal sounds. On paper, I like the Ascend Acoustics tower/Horizon center with RAAL upgrades. I also keep looking at Salks'. What am I missing that should be considered? Appreciate the insights.
Klipsch Forte III and Heresy III for the center.
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post #26 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Looking for LCR upgrade for HT. 50/50 music/ht with emphasis on music. Prefer low to moderate listening levels, but still want fast transients and above average dynamics at way less than reference level listening. Projector/fixed screen so speakers must be flat black. Room is 13' 6" X 25 X 10' 6", opens in rear. Already more than adequately pressurized by subwoofers. Listening preference is classic rock and am always looking for realistic percussion drum and cymbal sounds. On paper, I like the Ascend Acoustics tower/Horizon center with RAAL upgrades.
I would trust your first hunch in this case.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #27 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 04:52 PM
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Thumbs up

This is a little radical! But three Klipsch Heritage IV's across the front. Kick it up a notch 5 Klipsch Heritage IV's for surround.
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post #28 of 38 Old 12-05-2019, 05:22 PM
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since you already have subs, Id vote for the JTR option.
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post #29 of 38 Old 12-06-2019, 03:26 PM
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JTR or PSA
Low to moderate listening levels.
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post #30 of 38 Old 12-06-2019, 06:17 PM
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Here's my opinion. The problem, you have a solid budget for a trio of speakers that you want to be outstanding for music, but will serve well for home theater at moderate volume as well.

For this case, I don't think you need speakers designed for home theater from the ground up, which would be high sensitivity horn loaded compression driver speakers. These are 100% ideal for movies and can be pretty good for music.

I would lean towards wider dispersion speakers without horn loaded drivers...IMO you will get a more spacious sound with a bigger, less directional soundstage due to the very wide dispersion which results in a lot of reflections, similar to real life. The issue now becomes that you have to be very careful to select well designed speakers that have very accurate wide off axis response, so that the reflected sound closely matches the direct sound. Many speakers don't get this right. Hell, there are plenty that don't even get the on axis response right.

So I would lean towards speakers that are known to be very well designed with neutral, accurate response and excellent off axis response. Revel and KEF are two that come to mind although there are a good number of other companies that do this well also.

I would still lean towards options with 90dB+ sensitivity in order to get the home theater capability you may want.

Here's the problem though....its going to be tough to find well designed, accurate $6,000 wide dispersion speakers with excellent sound quality for music in matt black finish.

For example, Revel F208 and C208 center would be fantastic speakers that would fit your needs perfectly, but you can't get them in a dull movie theater finish.
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