Off axis speakers for existing 2.2 music setup? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 35 Old 12-08-2019, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Off axis speakers for existing 2.2 music setup?

I currently have a 2.2 setup with the following:
- DAC: chord qutest
- pre-amp: Emotiva PT-100
- amp: Emotiva A-300
- subs: RSL 10" speedwoofers
- speakers: Elac UF5 floorstanding

...and going to add a high pass filter of some kind since the pt-100 doesn't support that (maybe minidsp?).

Anyway, I'm moving UF5s to new HT setup and would like to replace them with some bookshelves (regaining floorspace) under 1000 (could go closer to 1500-2000 if I have really good reason to 😅).

I really like these elacs+subs for music (didn't like the debut b/f 5/6 with their roll off at higher frequencies, but the UF5s really fit my taste)... But this is for use in an open area where most listening isn't from the ideal listening spot and while they aren't bad for off axis listening (compared to most speakers I've heard), there is a really obvious difference just 1-2' vertically/horizontally from the listening position. I'm hoping to find something that improves in that area. (+Most listening will be done standing 6-20' away, up to 15-30 deg off axis... All genres outside of country/metal/polka.)

These will be sitting on a 34" sideboard, would like front ported so I can get them closer to the wall (but as long as I can get them 3-4" or less without sacrificing imaging depth, that's not a deal breaker).

Stuff I'm looking for, in order:
- off axis listening
- imaging & soundstage/depth
- clarity
- vocal smoothness
- solid dynamics
- not too bright/fatiguing
- tonal uniformity in general
- fairly neutral, leaning a bit on the warmer side
- high value, performance/$$ (bonus for category killers)

... Also open to out of the box suggestions (ie: recently learned of lx521 speakers, which looked interesting to say the least, but didn't look like it'd be compatible with my gear, etc).

So... Thoughts? 😬 Thanks!

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post #2 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Did some looking around last night and seems like the Sierra 2EXs might check a lot of boxes, but am concerned about placing them so close to a wall (8-9" *max*). I like the cbm-170 SE in my 2.1 computer setup, but those are the only speakers from ascend that I have owned or heard. Thoughts or other suggestions? Thx.
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post #3 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koeikan View Post
I currently have a 2.2 setup with the following:
- DAC: chord qutest
- pre-amp: Emotiva PT-100
- amp: Emotiva A-300
- subs: RSL 10" speedwoofers
- speakers: Elac UF5 floorstanding

...and going to add a high pass filter of some kind since the pt-100 doesn't support that (maybe minidsp?).

Anyway, I'm moving UF5s to new HT setup and would like to replace them with some bookshelves (regaining floorspace) under 1000 (could go closer to 1500-2000 if I have really good reason to 😅).

I really like these elacs+subs for music (didn't like the debut b/f 5/6 with their roll off at higher frequencies, but the UF5s really fit my taste)... But this is for use in an open area where most listening isn't from the ideal listening spot and while they aren't bad for off axis listening (compared to most speakers I've heard), there is a really obvious difference just 1-2' vertically/horizontally from the listening position. I'm hoping to find something that improves in that area. (+Most listening will be done standing 6-20' away, up to 15-30 deg off axis... All genres outside of country/metal/polka.)

These will be sitting on a 34" sideboard, would like front ported so I can get them closer to the wall (but as long as I can get them 3-4" or less without sacrificing imaging depth, that's not a deal breaker).

Stuff I'm looking for, in order:
- off axis listening
- imaging & soundstage/depth
- clarity
- vocal smoothness
- solid dynamics
- not too bright/fatiguing
- tonal uniformity in general
- fairly neutral, leaning a bit on the warmer side
- high value, performance/$$ (bonus for category killers)

... Also open to out of the box suggestions (ie: recently learned of lx521 speakers, which looked interesting to say the least, but didn't look like it'd be compatible with my gear, etc).

So... Thoughts? 😬 Thanks!
Due to their uni-q driver, Kef speakers have excellent off axis performance, but maybe a touch on the brighter side of neutral. The LS50 are very budget friendly right now.
Revel may be a good candidate as well. You could try Cruthfield's speaker compare app and listen to a few different models to see if anything peaks your interest.
https://www.crutchfield.com/speakercompare/
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post #4 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
Due to their uni-q driver, Kef speakers have excellent off axis performance, but maybe a touch on the brighter side of neutral. The LS50 are very budget friendly right now.
Agreed here. KEF is generally known for their excellent off axis listening performance. The Q series and LS50's might be a bit on the brighter side of neutral, but the R series is a little more laid back if that's what you want.
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post #5 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool, thanks for the replies. I was also looking into the KEFs last night (they actually led me to the 2EXs). From what I had read, it seemed like the LS50 might be a little brighter/harsh than my preference. The R3/300 seemed like it might be a really good fit, but then I read a couple comparison reviews that seemed to favor the 2EXs in a lot of the areas I mentioned above (including off axis forgiveness, which I was fairly surprised by).

The other potential issue w/ the R3s is that they are a bit bigger (depth being the only real consideration for me), IIRC... so that would mean they would have to be even closer to the wall than another speaker that isn't as deep (sideboard is just under 19" deep, and is ~1.5" from the wall).

I also don't know how much a high pass filter might relieve any rear port issues/imaging depth, but I know that the ELAC UF5s need to be >2-3' away from the wall or the SQ takes a big hit.

Anyone have any experience with any of these speakers (or similar) being so close to a wall? Thanks.

EDIT: I will also look a bit more into Revel... I have seen the name pop up a few times, but don't know anything about them (is it just the M16 speakers or any others fit my targets)? Crutchfield tool looks interesting... I'll try that out later.

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post #6 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Koeikan View Post
Cool, thanks for the replies. I was also looking into the KEFs last night (they actually led me to the 2EXs). From what I had read, it seemed like the LS50 might be a little brighter/harsh than my preference. The R3/300 seemed like it might be a really good fit, but then I read a couple comparison reviews that seemed to favor the 2EXs in a lot of the areas I mentioned above (including off axis forgiveness, which I was fairly surprised by).
Much of this is subjective. Everyone's hearing is different, and everyone has different tastes. However, I can say this, once you get into $2,000 and up speaker territory from reputable brands (KEF, B&W, Revel, Paradigm, etc), you're going to get amazing sound.

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The other potential issue w/ the R3s is that they are a bit bigger (depth being the only real consideration for me), IIRC... so that would mean they would have to be even closer to the wall than another speaker that isn't as deep (sideboard is just under 19" deep, and is ~1.5" from the wall).
Yes, the R3s are massive speakers so you will definitely have to take space into account. The manual states that they should be at least 9 inches from the back wall in order for them to breath. However, the speakers do come included with port plugs which will help reduce bloating if they are right up against the back wall (which is how I have them setup). For my particular room, they sound just fine.

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post #7 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmbgator View Post
Much of this is subjective. Everyone's hearing is different, and everyone has different tastes. However, I can say this, once you get into $2,000 and up speaker territory from reputable brands (KEF, B&W, Revel, Paradigm, etc), you're going to get amazing sound.



Yes, the R3s are massive speakers so you will definitely have to take space into account. The manual states that they should be at least 9 inches from the back wall in order for them to breath. However, the speakers do come included with port plugs which will help reduce bloating if they are right up against the back wall (which is how I have them setup). For my particular room, they sound just fine.
Good to know about the plugs and thanks for the distance info. How close do the wall do you keep them w/ your plugs in?

And how do the plugs impact the sound? I know it has to weaken the low end, but curious how much that extends (I assume beyond the point of crossover?) and if there are any other changes and/or how much plugging them takes away from the sound compared to an "ideal" setup. (+curious if "just fine" means "just okay overall" or "just fine" when compared to unplugged and they sound great ). Thanks.
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post #8 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 12:55 PM
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Chane A1.5 is a low budget, high performer, with good off-axis response due to the leaf tweeter. Given the extremely compromised placement, you might not reap the rewards a higher $ speaker may bring. If you need higher dBs, look at the A2.4. Really though, you would reap the benefit of going with the new tower, A5.5. A less compromised placement, coupled with the benefits of a dedicate midrange driver, higher power handling, and additional bass extension would be the best choice.

That said, if you are unswerving in your approach, you might take a look at the Buchardt's S400's, which have gotten a lot of play recently.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57910160

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From much of your list of what you are looking for, I would say that the Sierra-2EXs are certainly a great candidate. TBH I haven't actually heard them myself, but I do have a pair of Philharmonic BMRs, which have a very similar RAAL tweeter (the OEM version) to the Sierras. It is my understanding that the Sierras and BMRs are similar in their sound. That RAAL tweeter is definitely smooth, clear, and non-fatiguing.

I would also say that since you are using subs, you should have less to worry about the distance from the walls for these.....assuming they are set to small and crossed over.
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post #10 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Chane A1.5 is a low budget, high performer, with good off-axis response due to the leaf tweeter. Given the extremely compromised placement, you might not reap the rewards a higher $ speaker may bring.
Thanks, yeah, that is definitely a big concern for me.

Quote:
If you need higher dBs, look at the A2.4. Really though, you would reap the benefit of going with the new tower, A5.5. A less compromised placement, coupled with the benefits of a dedicate midrange driver, higher power handling, and additional bass extension would be the best choice.
Unfortunately, form factor is a big driver in this "upgrade opportunity". Some new Black Friday furniture incoming and don't think the floor-standing speakers that far from the wall will be a good fit anymore (unless maybe if I put them upside down on the sideboard?? )

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That said, if you unswerving in your approach, you might take a look at the Buchardt's S400's, which have gotten a lot of play recently.
Yeah, those seem to be getting a lot of love among the sub $2000 bookshelf contenders... but just looking at pictures, I would think (perhaps incorrectly) that the passive radiator in the rear wouldn't be a good combo with the placement limitations .

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post #11 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 01:15 PM
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Good to know about the plugs and thanks for the distance info. How close do the wall do you keep them w/ your plugs in?
Right now they are very close... About 2 inches from the wall. Once I get dedicated speaker stands for them though, I will be able to push them out to ~9in+.

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And how do the plugs impact the sound? I know it has to weaken the low end, but curious how much that extends (I assume beyond the point of crossover?) and if there are any other changes and/or how much plugging them takes away from the sound compared to an "ideal" setup. (+curious if "just fine" means "just okay overall" or "just fine" when compared to unplugged and they sound great ). Thanks.
See picture attached taken from their manual. There are two different ways you can use the included plugs, and you can see how each setting impacts the frequency response. For a more "neutral" curve, you can see based on the manual that you will want the plugs in. I'm crossing my speakers over to my sub at 80hz; so the sub is taking most of that load. Even with the plugs they sound amazing. Since you're pairing them with a sub, it will most likely be a non-issue... Only if you were driving them full range would you notice IMO.
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post #12 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 01:16 PM
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Thanks, yeah, that is definitely a big concern for me.



Unfortunately, form factor is a big driver in this "upgrade opportunity". Some new Black Friday furniture incoming and don't think the floor-standing speakers that far from the wall will be a good fit anymore (unless maybe if I put them upside down on the sideboard?? )



Yeah, those seem to be getting a lot of love among the sub $2000 bookshelf contenders... but just looking at pictures, I would think (maybe incorrectly) that the passive radiator in the rear wouldn't be a good combo with the placement limitations .
Yeah, that is an issue, and would require you to cross them over at 80Hz or thereabouts, to lessen the port's contribution. However, the off axis characteristics would play well with your needs ... as well as having the woofer away from the furniture top. Depending on your furniture height, you may even need short stands to raise the tweeter level.
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post #13 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Right now they are very close... About 2 inches from the wall. Once I get dedicated speaker stands for them though, I will be able to push them out to ~9in+.

See picture attached taken from their manual. There are two different ways you can use the included plugs, and you can see how each setting impacts the frequency response. For a more "neutral" curve, you can see based on the manual that you will want the plugs in. I'm crossing my speakers over to my sub at 80hz; so the sub is taking most of that load. Even with the plugs they sound amazing. Since you're pairing them with a sub, it will most likely be a non-issue... Only if you were driving them full range would you notice IMO.
Thanks, that's very helpful... looking at that picture, I might miss the extra warmth between the crossover->1khz (which is where it appears to level off with unplugged), but I'll see if I can listen to them at Magnolia this week... not a great comparison w/r/t my acoustic/room setup, but I can see if I can at least pick up on some of the impact from placement/plugging on them. It sounds like the trade off isn't nearly as impactful as the picture may imply (>80hz).
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post #14 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, that is an issue, and would require you to cross them over at 80Hz or thereabouts, to lessen the port's contribution. However, the off axis characteristics would play well with your needs ... as well as having the woofer away from the furniture top. Depending on your furniture height, you may even need short stands to raise the tweeter level.
Thanks, yeah, FWIW I don't mind crossing them over at 80hz at all. I don't have a big issue w/ localization of subs, so even 90/100hz might not bother me. Furniture height is 34" and I don't mind if they are on stands (I was thinking along those lines, since the UF5s sweet spot is lower than ideal for my use (more standing/moving, less sitting)).
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And how do the plugs impact the sound?
The woofer's roll-off will start higher in frequency with a more gradual slope. Since you are using a sub, it won't affect the speaker where it matters. I'm not familiar with your preamp, but if it has the typical 2nd order highpass/4th order lowpass like receivers do, you might find that more gradual slope will blend better with the sub.

Theory would predict that but the real world seems to enjoy punching holes in theory. So we try many different things until we like the results--rinse and repeat. Some are more obsessive about it than others.
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post #16 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Koeikan View Post
I currently have a 2.2 setup with the following:
- DAC: chord qutest
- pre-amp: Emotiva PT-100
- amp: Emotiva A-300
- subs: RSL 10" speedwoofers
- speakers: Elac UF5 floorstanding

...and going to add a high pass filter of some kind since the pt-100 doesn't support that (maybe minidsp?).

Anyway, I'm moving UF5s to new HT setup and would like to replace them with some bookshelves (regaining floorspace) under 1000 (could go closer to 1500-2000 if I have really good reason to 😅).

I really like these elacs+subs for music (didn't like the debut b/f 5/6 with their roll off at higher frequencies, but the UF5s really fit my taste)... But this is for use in an open area where most listening isn't from the ideal listening spot and while they aren't bad for off axis listening (compared to most speakers I've heard), there is a really obvious difference just 1-2' vertically/horizontally from the listening position. I'm hoping to find something that improves in that area. (+Most listening will be done standing 6-20' away, up to 15-30 deg off axis... All genres outside of country/metal/polka.)

These will be sitting on a 34" sideboard, would like front ported so I can get them closer to the wall (but as long as I can get them 3-4" or less without sacrificing imaging depth, that's not a deal breaker).

Stuff I'm looking for, in order:
- off axis listening
- imaging & soundstage/depth
- clarity
- vocal smoothness
- solid dynamics
- not too bright/fatiguing
- tonal uniformity in general
- fairly neutral, leaning a bit on the warmer side
- high value, performance/$$ (bonus for category killers)

... Also open to out of the box suggestions (ie: recently learned of lx521 speakers, which looked interesting to say the least, but didn't look like it'd be compatible with my gear, etc).

So... Thoughts? 😬 Thanks!
You like their subs, why not give their speakers a listen? CG5 or CG25.
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post #17 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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You like their subs, why not give their speakers a listen? CG5 or CG25.
Because that would apparently make far too much sense ... but yeah, good call... and they are even front ported. Honestly, I kind of forgot about their speakers, but I'll look into those and see how they align with my criterion .
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post #18 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 09:43 PM
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Thanks, yeah, FWIW I don't mind crossing them over at 80hz at all. I don't have a big issue w/ localization of subs, so even 90/100hz might not bother me. Furniture height is 34" and I don't mind if they are on stands (I was thinking along those lines, since the UF5s sweet spot is lower than ideal for my use (more standing/moving, less sitting)).
Have you considered raising the front of the speakers? This would allow the sound to rise slightly on it's way to your seated ears and rise quite a bit on it's way to your standing ears farfield. Might be an interesting experiment...
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post #19 of 35 Old 12-09-2019, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you considered raising the front of the speakers? This would allow the sound to rise slightly on it's way to your seated ears and rise quite a bit on it's way to your standing ears farfield. Might be an interesting experiment...
I should have (I had to do that with a center channel before), but I had not considered that route in this case for whatever reason, thanks... I'll try both, but that might be the better option
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post #20 of 35 Old 12-12-2019, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quick update...

Not really sure if I'm closer or further way from a decision, but narrowed it down to 4, I think...

Safe/conservative bet?
RSL CG5 (front ported, well reviewed from what I have seen, presumed speedwoofer integration, price... but not sure how they measure up against the killers below (from a higher price category, no less), especially w/r/t off-axis listening/detail).

Sub 2k category killers
Ascend Sierra 2-EX (really high quality components overall (+RAAL...), checks pretty much all my boxes, still enjoy my much cheaper/older Ascend CBM-170 SEs in 2.1 home office setup... but some reports of off axis weakness around crossover point and not sure how sensitive they are re: wall placement)
Buchardt S400 (checks pretty much all boxes, seems to compare favorably in most comparison tests in areas I'm prioritizing... but while widely praised, it also has the most inconsistent/conflicting info and not sure what to attribute that to (QA? other?). related: not sure how sensitive they are re: wall placement)

Dark Horse contender
Wharfedale Evo 4.2 (price is about the same as the CG5 (if w/o cheap/free auditioning), strong initial impressions/reports, 3 way design, flexible wall placement, might check most boxes for the $$... but want more info on some specifics)

Honorable mentions
KEF R3 (early contender, will be listening to them this week, but seems they might not to compare well in important areas against the 2-EX and S400 and are most $$, unless used/b-stock)
BMR Philharmonitor (checks at least most boxes, value/$$, might have already purchased these if they were still available (outside of Silk for almost 2x the price... but they do look good))

Would love to audition them all, but would feel guilty about buying something that I know upfront has <50% chance I'll keep it... so I'll have to narrow it down to 1 or 2 max.
...also a bit worried about how any of them will compare against my current floorstanders, even if spending more $$.

If anyone has any other suggestions/feedback, let me know (especially if you've used them for an extended period or, even better, have compared any of them)

Thanks.

Last edited by Koeikan; 12-12-2019 at 01:52 AM.
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post #21 of 35 Old 12-12-2019, 11:37 PM
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The S400 info page has this bit of info that may interest you:

Quote:
No port = More forgiving of wall-boundary placement! Go ahead and place em' near a wall if that's what you have to do!


https://www.buchardtaudio.com/s400-detailed-description

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post #22 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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The S400 info page has this bit of info that may interest you:





https://www.buchardtaudio.com/s400-detailed-description
Thanks, but yeah, that speaks to the point of conflicting info re: S400s out there. I have seen at least a couple reviews that indicated they did need some room away from the wall in order not to sound boomy.

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the Wharfedale Evo 4.2... but will be returning them. I knew there was a decent chance they wouldn't check all the boxes, but was hoping they might be "good enough" for the price.

They weren't bad speakers and did some things very well (some vocals sounded great and off axis response was very solid), but I found them to be too recessed in some areas (the upper bass-low mids? ...bass guitar, drums, some electric guitar, etc). They generally ranged from pretty good to great with acoustic/some live/older vinyl and some classical, but sounded much thinner with rock, etc. As an aside, the speakers themselves were massive for bookshelves. I had seen the dimensions online, but they were still much larger than I had envisioned.

For my A/B testing, they were a noticeable step up top from the Elac B6s, but a big step down from Elac UF5s (except w/r/t off axis response and some of the highs). I know it's not that fair to compare a bookshelf with a floorstander, but the biggest difference was how much fuller the sound was out of the UF5s (and how much easier it was to locate specific instruments)... Crossing over at 100hz closed the gap a touch, but not nearly as much as I was hoping.

I decided to try going with the Sierra 2-EXs next... hopefully I'll be happy with those (otherwise I'll have to eat the shipping both ways ).
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post #23 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koeikan View Post
Thanks, but yeah, that speaks to the point of conflicting info re: S400s out there. I have seen at least a couple reviews that indicated they did need some room away from the wall in order not to sound boomy.

Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the Wharfedale Evo 4.2... but will be returning them. I knew there was a decent chance they wouldn't check all the boxes, but was hoping they might be "good enough" for the price.

They weren't bad speakers and did some things very well (some vocals sounded great and off axis response was very solid), but I found them to be too recessed in some areas (the upper bass-low mids? ...bass guitar, drums, some electric guitar, etc). They generally ranged from pretty good to great with acoustic/some live/older vinyl and some classical, but sounded much thinner with rock, etc. As an aside, the speakers themselves were massive for bookshelves. I had seen the dimensions online, but they were still much larger than I had envisioned.

For my A/B testing, they were a noticeable step up top from the Elac B6s, but a big step down from Elac UF5s (except w/r/t off axis response and some of the highs). I know it's not that fair to compare a bookshelf with a floorstander, but the biggest difference was how much fuller the sound was out of the UF5s (and how much easier it was to locate specific instruments)... Crossing over at 100hz closed the gap a touch, but not nearly as much as I was hoping.

I decided to try going with the Sierra 2-EXs next... hopefully I'll be happy with those (otherwise I'll have to eat the shipping both ways ).
You're doing it right. Testing in your own home, with your own equipment. Keep us in the loop, as you progress. Return charges are just the cost of getting it right. Don't let them make the decision for you.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 12-27-2019 at 02:24 PM.
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post #24 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Koeikan View Post
Quick update...

Not really sure if I'm closer or further way from a decision, but narrowed it down to 4, I think...

Safe/conservative bet?
RSL CG5 (front ported, well reviewed from what I have seen, presumed speedwoofer integration, price... but not sure how they measure up against the killers below (from a higher price category, no less), especially w/r/t off-axis listening/detail).

Sub 2k category killers
Ascend Sierra 2-EX (really high quality components overall (+RAAL...), checks pretty much all my boxes, still enjoy my much cheaper/older Ascend CBM-170 SEs in 2.1 home office setup... but some reports of off axis weakness around crossover point and not sure how sensitive they are re: wall placement)
Buchardt S400 (checks pretty much all boxes, seems to compare favorably in most comparison tests in areas I'm prioritizing... but while widely praised, it also has the most inconsistent/conflicting info and not sure what to attribute that to (QA? other?). related: not sure how sensitive they are re: wall placement)

Dark Horse contender
Wharfedale Evo 4.2 (price is about the same as the CG5 (if w/o cheap/free auditioning), strong initial impressions/reports, 3 way design, flexible wall placement, might check most boxes for the $$... but want more info on some specifics)

Honorable mentions
KEF R3 (early contender, will be listening to them this week, but seems they might not to compare well in important areas against the 2-EX and S400 and are most $$, unless used/b-stock)
BMR Philharmonitor (checks at least most boxes, value/$$, might have already purchased these if they were still available (outside of Silk for almost 2x the price... but they do look good))

Would love to audition them all, but would feel guilty about buying something that I know upfront has <50% chance I'll keep it... so I'll have to narrow it down to 1 or 2 max.
...also a bit worried about how any of them will compare against my current floorstanders, even if spending more $$.
No such thing as speaker/subwoofer "matching" or "integration."

I would try the CG5 and Evo 4.2 first since you get free return shipping on the first and $10 return shipping on the second. If neither one satisfies, THEN I would order the 2EX.

The KEF R series has never impressed me, esp. not with their outrageous pricing.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #25 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
.

The KEF R series has never impressed me, esp. not with their outrageous pricing.
The LS50's at 1/4 the price are a much better value/performance option.

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, Kef Kube 10B (X2) , Denon AVR-X3400H, NAD 216 THX, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
Bedroom: Kef Q100 ,JBL Loft 20, SVS SB-2000, Denon AVR-S710W, PS3, 32" Insigna LED.
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post #26 of 35 Old 12-27-2019, 04:25 PM
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The LS50's at 1/4 the price are a much better value/performance option.
Agreed! And even the LS50s have come down in price a lot recently.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Revel M106.

Here's a good thread on how to choose a great speaker.....clears up a couple of commonly held misconceptions such as, "you have to hear a speaker in your room to know if you will like it", or "you have to drive all over the place and demo speakers in a store", or, "everyone prefers a different sound" etc etc.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html
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post #28 of 35 Old 12-28-2019, 11:09 AM
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Yeah, picking a speaker by reading. Great idea, if you're deaf.
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post #29 of 35 Old 12-30-2019, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
No such thing as speaker/subwoofer "matching" or "integration."

I would try the CG5 and Evo 4.2 first since you get free return shipping on the first and $10 return shipping on the second. If neither one satisfies, THEN I would order the 2EX.

The KEF R series has never impressed me, esp. not with their outrageous pricing.
Timbre matching? ...which I know isn't as applicable at lower frequencies and was mostly a throwaway thought, but fair enough. I ordered the Evo 4.2, but they weren't what I was looking for. I shied away from the CG5 because it appears that they don't compare favorably with the other contenders w/r/t off axis response (seems solid up to 15 degrees, but I'm often going to be listening to them more off axis than that). 2EX is up next...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pase22 View Post
The LS50's at 1/4 the price are a much better value/performance option.
Thanks, but looks like it's more like 1/2 for the LS50s and I haven't seen them reviewed favorably against the R3s. Seems like the wireless version w/ built in DSP gets a lot more love than the standard model as well, but those are almost the same price as the R3s AFAICT (and I would generally try to avoid adding another A/D/A conversion after my DAC).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Revel M106.

Here's a good thread on how to choose a great speaker.....clears up a couple of commonly held misconceptions such as, "you have to hear a speaker in your room to know if you will like it", or "you have to drive all over the place and demo speakers in a store", or, "everyone prefers a different sound" etc etc.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html
Thanks. If I was going to extend the list another spot, I'd probably take a closer look at the 106s. Though, while I'm generally not a fan of demoing speakers inside stores, I still don't see "you have to hear a speaker in your room to know if you will like it" or "everyone prefers a different sound" as misconceptions...

I'm loosely familiar with the spinorama measurements/data, etc and I think there are some fairly objective information that can be conveyed with measurements in general (on/off axis response, neutrality, etc), but just as a jump off point... in my very limited experience. I mean, just moving speakers between rooms in my house (carpet vs. wood, small room vs. large, many windows vs. few, etc) changes the sound very noticeably... and from my perspective, makes certain speakers better or worse choices depending on the setup, etc. Also, those measurements are pretty limited in availability from what I've seen outside of amateur efforts. +I don't know how to infer things like how the imaging/response is impacted based on wall/speaker distances, etc, etc, etc from those measurements. I'd be curious if you have any other thoughts on why/how this would make auditioning speakers obsolete.

Regardless, according to Harman measurements, it appears the KEF and Ascend perform better than the M106s (and the S400s), with the Ascends being about 25% cheaper as well... so, going by the measurements or based on aggregated review/listener feedback would have ended up in the same choice in this case . The Sierra 2-EXs should have shipped today (no tracking info yet, but that's what I was told last week). I'm hoping I won't have to go further down the list ).
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Last edited by Koeikan; 12-30-2019 at 06:48 PM.
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post #30 of 35 Old 12-30-2019, 09:00 PM
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Timbre matching? ...which I know isn't as applicable at lower frequencies and was mostly a throwaway thought, but fair enough. I ordered the Evo 4.2, but they weren't what I was looking for. I shied away from the CG5 because it appears that they don't compare favorably with the other contenders w/r/t off axis response (seems solid up to 15 degrees, but I'm often going to be listening to them more off axis than that). 2EX is up next...
Good for you...will you have the chance to hear the 4.2 and the 2EX side by side? That would be an interesting comparison.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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