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post #1 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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good speakers for high quality atmos + DTS-X ?

good speakers for high quality atmos + DTS-X ?

What to buy and why?

Room size 4 m X 9 m
Receiver Danon
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post #2 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
good speakers for high quality atmos + DTS-X ?

What to buy and why?

Room size 4 m X 9 m
Receiver Danon
1) Your budget.
2) Your listening interests: movies/gaming/music--and whether or not any of those are your primary concern.
3) Your existing audio equipment (make/models) if any. Include comments about what you hope to improve upon.
4) The size of your room. Please also mention if there are adjacent open areas and how big they are (important for subwoofer choice).
5) Any placement restrictions.
6) Any aesthetic or size concerns.
7) Any equipment you are already considering (or would not consider).
8) Any particular audio sonic signatures you know you prefer (e.g., you are a basshead, you have a preference for bright treble, etc.)
9) Where are you located? US, Canada, EU?

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post #3 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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budget - Depends on the quality of the speakers
movies/music
samsung tv
Room size 4 m X 9 m
US
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post #4 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
budget - Depends on the quality of the speakers
movies/music
samsung tv
Room size 4 m X 9 m
US
In ceiling speakers fro highest quality Atmos experience.

Polk or RSL in ceilings.

Right now the best subwoofer value in the $500 range is this one; free returns direct from SVS if not happy.

It is large though.

400watts =17w21hx22d= 66 lbs 12" [19hz] $500 SVS PB12 NSD, (extension from Sound & Vision Review)

Are you located near any of these folks?

ACCESSORIES 4 LESS*** NEAR ORLANDO FLORIDA
APERION* NEAR PORTLAND OREGON
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post #5 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Polk or RSL in ceilings.
How do you come up with this answer ?

not understandable which model ? i need a hung on wall or ceiling only
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post #6 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
Polk or RSL in ceilings.
How do you come up with this answer ?

not understandable which model ? i need a hung on wall or ceiling only
From AVS owner experience.

I have zero idea of your budget and you have given very little information so is difficult to help you.

So are you located near any of the vendors I listed so you can listen for yourself?

So not "in" ceiling but on wall or on ceiling?

Consider these for Atmos; free returns if not happy.

https://www.svsound.com/collections/...vs%20elevation

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post #7 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
From AVS owner experience.

I have zero idea of your budget and you have given very little information so is difficult to help you.

So are you located near any of the vendors I listed so you can listen for yourself?

So not "in" ceiling but on wall or on ceiling?

Consider these for Atmos; free returns if not happy.

https://www.svsound.com/collections/...vs%20elevation
the worst speakers you could tell me is SVS
i returned them, because they were just bad
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post #8 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
the worst speakers you could tell me is SVS
i returned them, because they were just bad
How about this, why don't you tell us where you are located, what your budget is, what your room size is, what your restrictions are and what you have tried already.

At this point you are providing very little motivation to help you.

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post #9 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 11:56 AM
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I think you are better off just asking folks what they are using for their atmos speakers and going from there. I use Focal Sibs (on-ceiling speakers).
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post #10 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you are better off just asking folks what they are using for their atmos speakers and going from there. I use Focal Sibs (on-ceiling speakers).

So you have no real atmos speakers with an atmos driver

Not intended for the atmos (not a little and not at all)
You will not receive 3D sound and you will miss all the sound

The Dolby site has a list of certified speakers for the driver built into the Atmos
Dolby Atmos takes surround sound to the next level with 3D audio, you don't have 360 degrees
This means that atmos technology can realistically reproduce the sound of something as big or small as a bee that flies from flower to flower, making it sound accurate in space. You can even hear sounds coming overhead. Dolby Atmos actually fools the brain into thinking he's right in the middle of the scene.
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post #11 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
So you have no real atmos speakers with an atmos driver

Not intended for the atmos (not a little and not at all)
You will not receive 3D sound and you will miss all the sound

The Dolby site has a list of certified speakers for the driver built into the Atmos
Dolby Atmos takes surround sound to the next level with 3D audio, you don't have 360 degrees
This means that atmos technology can realistically reproduce the sound of something as big or small as a bee that flies from flower to flower, making it sound accurate in space. You can even hear sounds coming overhead. Dolby Atmos actually fools the brain into thinking he's right in the middle of the scene.

You really need to go do some research. Atmos is a sound technology. The speakers you may be thinking of are probably atmos enabled speakers, which bounce sound off the ceiling. They are the least preferred option in an atmos setup.
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post #12 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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You really need to go do some research. Atmos is a sound technology. The speakers you may be thinking of are probably atmos enabled speakers, which bounce sound off the ceiling. They are the least preferred option in an atmos setup.
Everything you wrote is wrong
Before you recommend people buy a lot of speakers
You will learn what is atmos

Learn what the difference is between the surround speakers you have and the atmos
surround speakers it's not atmos

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/dolby-a...ews-26573.html

How is Atmos different than surround sound?

The biggest difference between Dolby Atmos and traditional surround sound is the use of channels. Audio over conventional surround sound is confined to 5.1 (five speakers, one subwoofer) or 7.1 (seven speakers, one subwoofer) channels. In this kind of setup, you can hear a helicopter moving from right to left or vice versa, but the system can't reproduce the sound of something flying above you. The lack of positional freedom takes away from the overall immersion factor.
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post #13 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 02:14 PM
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^^^^ lost cause-
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post #14 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 02:31 PM
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All the Dolby Atmos setup guides I have seen have the Atmos speakers in or on the ceiling in line with the front left and right speakers. The sound can also be bounced up from floor speakers for an Atmos approximation.


Seems like if you are thinking of a wall mounted Atmos speaker setup then you may end up with excellent 360 degree surround sound but not true Dolby Atmos with fly over images. Unless, of course, you watch alone and all the speakers are identical, highly focused, and aimed at your head.



Triad Speakers have been doing home theater since 1981 and know Atmos, their website is a good place to start: https://www.triadspeakers.com/
Ask a question in the Triad thread to get professional answers, not just peoples opinions: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-s-thread.html


I use 4 Triad Inwall Bronze4/Surrounds (bipole) for Atmos and they seem to work just fine.
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post #15 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
Everything you wrote is wrong
Before you recommend people buy a lot of speakers
You will learn what is atmos

Learn what the difference is between the surround speakers you have and the atmos
surround speakers it's not atmos

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/dolby-a...ews-26573.html

How is Atmos different than surround sound?

The biggest difference between Dolby Atmos and traditional surround sound is the use of channels. Audio over conventional surround sound is confined to 5.1 (five speakers, one subwoofer) or 7.1 (seven speakers, one subwoofer) channels. In this kind of setup, you can hear a helicopter moving from right to left or vice versa, but the system can't reproduce the sound of something flying above you. The lack of positional freedom takes away from the overall immersion factor.

Allow me to bow out of this thread and go watch my completely wrong 7.1.4 setup. Bye bye!
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post #16 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
i need a hung on wall or ceiling only

Hung on wall not good. Why oh why you ask? Dolby engineers answer this burning question:


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post #17 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
Everything you wrote is wrong
Before you recommend people buy a lot of speakers
You will learn what is atmos

Learn what the difference is between the surround speakers you have and the atmos
surround speakers it's not atmos

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/dolby-a...ews-26573.html

How is Atmos different than surround sound?

The biggest difference between Dolby Atmos and traditional surround sound is the use of channels. Audio over conventional surround sound is confined to 5.1 (five speakers, one subwoofer) or 7.1 (seven speakers, one subwoofer) channels. In this kind of setup, you can hear a helicopter moving from right to left or vice versa, but the system can't reproduce the sound of something flying above you. The lack of positional freedom takes away from the overall immersion factor.
You just insulted someone who HAS Dolby Atmos in their own home.

Please look at the Dolby site, not that terrible site, to see the different setups for the home.

All of these links are official Dolby links.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/speaker-...des/index.html

There is nothing magical about the Atmos speakers themselves, it is their placement and the use of an Atmos capable speaker with Atmos content.

Here is the most common affordable recommended solution on AVS; there are many others with many more speakers but the costs get high very very fast.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

These are all the numerous versions, but getting atmos by bouncing atmos speakers off the ceiling is not recommended.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/speaker-...des/index.html
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post #18 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 03:17 PM
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Very little info.
Gets defensive
insults you for trying to help him
Smell like a troll account to me.

Good luck in your quest OP.
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post #19 of 81 Old 12-13-2019, 03:19 PM
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Very little info.
Gets defensive
insults you for trying to help him
Smell like a troll account to me.
Probably.

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post #20 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Hung on wall not good. Why oh why you ask? Dolby engineers answer this burning question:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyqF07KL0VQ
Cute movie, do not see the connection to my question?
I asked for wall hanging or ceiling speakers
and you sent me a movie saying that speakers that projecting to the ceiling are not good!

So what does this have to do with me?
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post #21 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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You just insulted someone who HAS Dolby Atmos in their own home.

Please look at the Dolby site, not that terrible site, to see the different setups for the home.

All of these links are official Dolby links.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/speaker-...des/index.html

There is nothing magical about the Atmos speakers themselves, it is their placement and the use of an Atmos capable speaker with Atmos content.

Here is the most common affordable recommended solution on AVS; there are many others with many more speakers but the costs get high very very fast.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

These are all the numerous versions, but getting atmos by bouncing atmos speakers off the ceiling is not recommended.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/speaker-...des/index.html

Thanks for the links!
I need to put 6 speakers in the ceiling
And the links only have 4 speakers

Where to put 2 more speakers?


thanks for the links!
i need to put 6 speakers in the ceiling
and the links only have 4 speakers

Where to put 2 more speakers ?

What is the difference between ELAc's and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ER&psc=1's atmos speakers?
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post #22 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
I asked for wall hanging or ceiling speakers
and you sent me a movie saying that speakers that projecting to the ceiling are not good!

So what does this have to do with me?
Actually the video says that wall hanging speakers are not the best option for the Dolby Atmos speakers and speakers that bounce sound (project sound towards the ceiling) are good, you should watch the video again (and again and again) because you miss understood and got it backwards.

I see that you are now considering putting the Atmos speakers in the ceiling instead of on the wall, congratulations grasshopper, you have reached the second level of understanding.

You can put 2 wall hanging speakers behind you close to the ceiling (in line with the ceiling Atmos speakers) for the Surround Rear Height speakers.

4 in ceiling Dolby Atmos speakers + 2 Surround Height speakers = 6 speakers


Although ultimately you can do whatever you want, SVS only makes wall and floor speakers so of course they stick all the Atmos speakers on the wall, contrary to Dolby guidelines. The ceiling speaker in the middle is the Voice of God speaker for DTS:X.

https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/do...nd-dts-x-guide



Last edited by WGH; 12-14-2019 at 08:05 AM.
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post #23 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
Thanks for the links!
I need to put 6 speakers in the ceiling
And the links only have 4 speakers

Where to put 2 more speakers?


thanks for the links!
i need to put 6 speakers in the ceiling
and the links only have 4 speakers

Where to put 2 more speakers ?

What is the difference between ELAc's and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ER&psc=1's atmos speakers?
In the last link I posted they went through dozens of scenarios for you and this was one of the; 7.1.6.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

A new surround receiver capable of that costs $4000 in the US at the moment.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-JgG1Cj...00H-Black.html

The difference between the Elac and the KEF is that the very expensive KEF can be used on top of a speaker bouncing sound up off the ceiling or placed up near the wall/ceiling junction to aim down at the listener. I believe the Elac for some odd reason, is only recommended to place on top of a speaker to bounce off the ceiling, perhaps due to some trickery in the design.

Nevertheless despite what another poster mentioned bouncing off the ceiling is the least desirable choice and on ceiling or in ceiling are the best choice.

The middle ground is like the SVS Elevation, Klipsch or KEF angled speakers which can be mounted near the ceiling/wall junction aimed down.

Of course the same could be accomplished using bookshelf speakers on wall mounts tilted down in the same position as the angled speakers.

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post #24 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WGH View Post
Actually the video says that wall hanging speakers are not the best option for the Dolby Atmos speakers and speakers that bounce sound (project sound towards the ceiling) are good, you should watch the video again (and again and again) because you miss understood and got it backwards.

I see that you are now considering putting the Atmos speakers in the ceiling instead of on the wall, congratulations grasshopper, you have reached the second level of understanding.

You can put 2 wall hanging speakers behind you close to the ceiling (in line with the ceiling Atmos speakers) for the Surround Rear Height speakers.

4 in ceiling Dolby Atmos speakers + 2 Surround Height speakers = 6 speakers


Although ultimately you can do whatever you want, SVS only makes wall and floor speakers so of course they stick all the Atmos speakers on the wall, contrary to Dolby guidelines. The ceiling speaker in the middle is the Voice of God speaker for DTS:X.

https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/do...nd-dts-x-guide


Quote:
(project sound towards the ceiling) are good, you should watch the video again
No I don't have to watch a 2 minute movie again that says nothing!
Unrelated to me
speakers that project to the ceiling are very poor!
and nothing worth it to me
that's my opinion,

Quote:
4 in ceiling Dolby Atmos speakers + 2 Surround Height speakers = 6 speakers
the speaker above the head and forward is 3D AURO I don't think it's good for the atmos
OR DTS -X

Quote:
SVS
i bought these speakers and they are just bad for me!
and I returned them!

Bad sound!
Very bad atmos !

Last edited by zind1703; 12-14-2019 at 12:18 PM.
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post #25 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
In the last link I posted they went through dozens of scenarios for you and this was one of the; 7.1.6.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

A new surround receiver capable of that costs $4000 in the US at the moment.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-JgG1Cj...00H-Black.html

The difference between the Elac and the KEF is that the very expensive KEF can be used on top of a speaker bouncing sound up off the ceiling or placed up near the wall/ceiling junction to aim down at the listener. I believe the Elac for some odd reason, is only recommended to place on top of a speaker to bounce off the ceiling, perhaps due to some trickery in the design.

Nevertheless despite what another poster mentioned bouncing off the ceiling is the least desirable choice and on ceiling or in ceiling are the best choice.

The middle ground is like the SVS Elevation, Klipsch or KEF angled speakers which can be mounted near the ceiling/wall junction aimed down.

Of course the same could be accomplished using bookshelf speakers on wall mounts tilted down in the same position as the angled speakers.
Thanks for this picture

Will the Atmos + DTS-X work
  If the speaker will be over ME and above the television ?
Or is it a 3D AURO configuration?

Quote:
bookshelf speakers
for atmos ?


How is Atmos different than surround sound?
Even as a joke, this is a very poor answer

The biggest difference between Dolby Atmos and traditional surround sound is the use of channels. Audio over conventional surround sound is confined to 5.1 (five speakers, one subwoofer) or 7.1 (seven speakers, one subwoofer) channels. In this kind of setup, you can hear a helicopter moving from right to left or vice versa, but the system can't reproduce the sound of something flying above you. The lack of positional freedom takes away from the overall immersion factor.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/dolby-a...ews-26573.html
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post #26 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 12:38 PM
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Thanks for this picture

Will the Atmos + DTS-X work
  If the speaker will be over ME and above the television ?
Or is it a 3D AURO configuration?

for atmos ?


How is Atmos different than surround sound?
Even as a joke, this is a very poor answer

The biggest difference between Dolby Atmos and traditional surround sound is the use of channels. Audio over conventional surround sound is confined to 5.1 (five speakers, one subwoofer) or 7.1 (seven speakers, one subwoofer) channels. In this kind of setup, you can hear a helicopter moving from right to left or vice versa, but the system can't reproduce the sound of something flying above you. The lack of positional freedom takes away from the overall immersion factor.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/dolby-a...ews-26573.html
That guy in your link talks about headphones; regular headphones do not work for Atmos you would have to buy special ones.

For someone who has a 5.1 surround system with all of the speakers less than half way up the wall, adding an Atmos capable receiver and 2 or more Atmos speakers, (depending on how many the receiver will support), will do the trick by following the various guidelines for your particular situation in the Dolby links I provided to you.

The atmos speakers can be the upfiring bounce type, (least effective), or the ceiling mounted kind, (most effective which is what Theaters use), or speakers, (bookshelf or angled), mounted at the ceiling/wall junction.

Here is an easy to understand explanation from Crutchfield.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-N2LFAO...lby-atmos.aspx

Geoff A. J., California
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post #27 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 06:34 PM
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OP, please stop insulting us and actually read and heed the advice given. We have been very patient with you, and in return you have been very combative. We are trying our best to explain things to you when we have, collectively, CENTURIES in audio experience.



You want 6 Atmos speakers? Good for you. You want them in-ceiling? Good for you. How many surround speakers do you want/have? As Geoff mentioned, the least expensive AVP/AVR that can process 6 Atmos channels is $4k.


If that is your budget for an AVR/AVP, then you have to take external amps into factor, and that is where things are starting to get more expensive.


The RSL C34E speakers https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/ are a favourite AVS choice due to the dual 4" woofers and an angled baffle. Even better, they are $250 per pair.


Six Atmos speakers would be two Top Front, two Top Middle, and two Top Rear for in-ceiling or on-ceiling speakers ie: two in front, two directly overhead, and two to the rear, of the MLP.
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post #28 of 81 Old 12-14-2019, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zind1703 View Post
Thanks for the links!
I need to put 6 speakers in the ceiling
And the links only have 4 speakers

Where to put 2 more speakers?


thanks for the links!
i need to put 6 speakers in the ceiling
and the links only have 4 speakers

Where to put 2 more speakers ?

What is the difference between ELAc's and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ER&psc=1's atmos speakers?
The speakers in your link are for a "Dolby Enabled" use, which means bouncing the sound off a flat ceiling.

A 7.1.6 Atmos config: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

That would require a 13 channel AVR. Example: https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hom...vers/avrx8500h List price, $4kUS. Street price, about the same. (It's Denon's "flagship" AVR.)

(I believe that 5.1.6 is not a supported configuration.)

I wonder what's available where you live? Your English is pretty good, although I'd guess that you are not a native speaker.
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post #29 of 81 Old 12-15-2019, 12:47 AM
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Conversing with bots is always a blast!
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It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 12-15-2019 at 12:56 AM.
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post #30 of 81 Old 12-16-2019, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
That guy in your link talks about headphones; regular headphones do not work for Atmos you would have to buy special ones.

For someone who has a 5.1 surround system with all of the speakers less than half way up the wall, adding an Atmos capable receiver and 2 or more Atmos speakers, (depending on how many the receiver will support), will do the trick by following the various guidelines for your particular situation in the Dolby links I provided to you.

The atmos speakers can be the upfiring bounce type, (least effective), or the ceiling mounted kind, (most effective which is what Theaters use), or speakers, (bookshelf or angled), mounted at the ceiling/wall junction.

Here is an easy to understand explanation from Crutchfield.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-N2LFAO...lby-atmos.aspx
he doesn't really talk about headphones he talk this on home theater system link at all!
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/dolby-a...ews-26573.html

Quote again:
How is Atmos different than surround sound?

The biggest difference between Dolby Atmos and traditional surround sound is the use of channels. Audio over conventional surround sound is confined to 5.1 (five speakers, one subwoofer)
Quote:
or 7.1 (seven speakers, one subwoofer
) channels. In this kind of setup, you can hear a helicopter moving from right to left or vice versa, but the system cannot reproduce the sound of something flying above you. The lack of positional freedom takes away from the overall immersion factor.

all your links are not related to my questions.

your whole story that atmos speakers can be ordinary surround sound speakers without certification or the atmos driver!
wrong !
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