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post #1 of 40 Old 01-06-2020, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Possibly Upgrading

So I built my system about 7 years ago on a bit of a budget. I’m currently running a 5.1 system. Receiver Onkyo RX-V373. (2) Bic DV-64 towers, (1) DV-62CLR and (2) DV-62sib and a Klipsch Sub-10. Was considering an upgrade. Didn’t know if I’d be better off sticking with my current speakers and just upgrading the receiver or if I should look into upgrading everything. Was looking into Klipsch or Paradigm speakers. I know the Klipsch will be much brighter than what I’m used to but I’ve auditioned them and they don’t seem to bother me. And are the newer paradigms worth the $$? System used for 90% movies/sports/tv and 10% music.

L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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post #2 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by adubree86 View Post
So I built my system about 7 years ago on a bit of a budget. I’m currently running a 5.1 system. Receiver Onkyo RX-V373. (2) Bic DV-64 towers, (1) DV-62CLR and (2) DV-62sib and a Klipsch Sub-10. Was considering an upgrade. Didn’t know if I’d be better off sticking with my current speakers and just upgrading the receiver or if I should look into upgrading everything. Was looking into Klipsch or Paradigm speakers. I know the Klipsch will be much brighter than what I’m used to but I’ve auditioned them and they don’t seem to bother me. And are the newer paradigms worth the $$? System used for 90% movies/sports/tv and 10% music.
I'd start by upgrading the subwoofer.

Your current sub is a ported 10" 200 watt sub with 28hz claimed extension.

All of these would be a significant improvement.

5 years 300watts =15w19h20d= 46 lbs 10" [18hz] $499 SVS PB1000, (extension from Sound & Vision Review)

5 years 500watts =15w19h20d= 72 lbs 10" [20hz] $500 MONOPRICE MONOLITH THX 10"

3 years 300watts =16w22h21d= 69 lbs* 12" [19hz] $569 RHYTHMIK LV12F

2 years 350watts =15w21h22d= 62 lbs 12" [18hz] $607 HSU VTF2 MK5, (extension from Audioholics review)
* = shipping weight

Geoff A. J., California
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post #3 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adubree86 View Post
So I built my system about 7 years ago on a bit of a budget. I’m currently running a 5.1 system. Receiver Onkyo RX-V373. (2) Bic DV-64 towers, (1) DV-62CLR and (2) DV-62sib and a Klipsch Sub-10. Was considering an upgrade. Didn’t know if I’d be better off sticking with my current speakers and just upgrading the receiver or if I should look into upgrading everything. Was looking into Klipsch or Paradigm speakers. I know the Klipsch will be much brighter than what I’m used to but I’ve auditioned them and they don’t seem to bother me. And are the newer paradigms worth the $$? System used for 90% movies/sports/tv and 10% music.
What is your all in budget?

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post #4 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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What is your all in budget?
Always seems to be a moving target.
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post #5 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by adubree86 View Post
Always seems to be a moving target.
Can you give us a ballpark figure so we can make appropriate recommendations?
You don't need to upgrade everything at once either.

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post #6 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you give us a ballpark figure so we can make appropriate recommendations?
You don't need to upgrade everything at once either.
Honestly I'm unsure. My biggest complaint is the system just seems to lack that immersive experience I'm after. Maybe speaker setup. I tried to set up everything manually again last night with a tape and decibel meter and it still seamed a bit lack luster. I am in a new house with vaulted ceilings and a much larger space. Didn't know if upgrading the receiver may help that or not. As far as sub, I'm pretty satisfied with what I'm running. Not sure if I'd want to drop $500-700 on a new sub.
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post #7 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adubree86 View Post
So I built my system about 7 years ago on a bit of a budget. I’m currently running a 5.1 system. Receiver Onkyo RX-V373. (2) Bic DV-64 towers, (1) DV-62CLR and (2) DV-62sib and a Klipsch Sub-10. Was considering an upgrade. Didn’t know if I’d be better off sticking with my current speakers and just upgrading the receiver or if I should look into upgrading everything. Was looking into Klipsch or Paradigm speakers. I know the Klipsch will be much brighter than what I’m used to but I’ve auditioned them and they don’t seem to bother me. And are the newer paradigms worth the $$? System used for 90% movies/sports/tv and 10% music.
First, check your receiver settings. If you're using default AccuEQ settings, turn it off and just start over by manually setting all 5 speakers on "small" and at 80Hz crossover. Often times those auto-calibration tools screw things up more than anything.

If still unhappy, I'd upgrade the center first: Chane A2.4, Ascend 340SE, Emotiva C1, HTD Level 3 center ... these are all around $250-300.

See how it sounds after that...the center does 70-80% of the HT output so this is what you're actually hearing during your HT/TV usage.

After that, see if you're still missing the "immersive" effect, or if you want a FULLER, DEEPER sound.

If it's the first, then upgrade the front L/R to whatever matches the center you chose (Chane A1.5, Ascend 170SE, Emotiva B1, HTD Level 3 books.
If it's the second, upgrade the sub.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #8 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adubree86 View Post
Honestly I'm unsure. My biggest complaint is the system just seems to lack that immersive experience I'm after. Maybe speaker setup. I tried to set up everything manually again last night with a tape and decibel meter and it still seamed a bit lack luster. I am in a new house with vaulted ceilings and a much larger space. Didn't know if upgrading the receiver may help that or not. As far as sub, I'm pretty satisfied with what I'm running. Not sure if I'd want to drop $500-700 on a new sub.
Well usually with the subwoofer you do not want to use a tape measure to set the distance, you should let YPAO set the distances as the sub will be further away in the menu than a tape measure will show while all the other passive speakers will be very close to that measured by the tape.

Are all speakers set to "small" with an 80hz crossover?

The difference between a 28hz sub and a 20hz or lower sub is substantial in terms of impressiveness.

Easy enough to order the SVS PB1000 to see for yourself and return it a no cost to you at all if not happy.

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post #9 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adubree86 View Post
Honestly I'm unsure. My biggest complaint is the system just seems to lack that immersive experience I'm after. Maybe speaker setup. I tried to set up everything manually again last night with a tape and decibel meter and it still seamed a bit lack luster. I am in a new house with vaulted ceilings and a much larger space. Didn't know if upgrading the receiver may help that or not. As far as sub, I'm pretty satisfied with what I'm running. Not sure if I'd want to drop $500-700 on a new sub.
Subs see the entire space so if you have an open floor plan with vaulted ceiling that 200w Klipsch sub doesn't stand a chance. Areceiver with better room correction and sub eq would help, but shouldn't be top priority. Get yourself a good sub that can pressurize that space more efficiently like an HSU VTF-3 MK5 or go dual VTF-2 MK5's which would be even better. After that upgrade the front 3 and receiver.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk5HP.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

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post #10 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Well usually with the subwoofer you do not want to use a tape measure to set the distance, you should let YPAO set the distances as the sub will be further away in the menu than a tape measure will show while all the other passive speakers will be very close to that measured by the tape.

Are all speakers set to "small" with an 80hz crossover?

The difference between a 28hz sub and a 20hz or lower sub is substantial in terms of impressiveness.

Easy enough to order the SVS PB1000 to see for yourself and return it a no cost to you at all if not happy.
Sub wasn't set with tape. It's actually like 10' from listening position but distance was set to around 22'6"
I have my front towers set to Large but everything else set to small. crossover was set to 60hz. I'll try that change tonight.
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post #11 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm also very limited by room layout. I'll throw a plan of my space up here tonight. It's honestly not a great space for a setup but it's what I've got to work with.

L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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post #12 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 02:01 PM
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Sub wasn't set with tape. It's actually like 10' from listening position but distance was set to around 22'6"
I have my front towers set to Large but everything else set to small. crossover was set to 60hz. I'll try that change tonight.
Things should sound better when you set the towers to "small" as they and the amp only have to reproduce frequencies above the crossover point which ideally should be at 80hz.

My towers are set to "small" and my receiver never gets more than 10 degrees hotter than room temperature.

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post #13 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 02:32 PM
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Things should sound better when you set the towers to "small" as they and the amp only have to reproduce frequencies above the crossover point which ideally should be at 80hz.
Especially because BIC systematically and shamelessly lies about their specs.

They list those 34lb, un-ported towers as having 29Hz bass extension...in the REAL world I'll bet 70-90Hz is much more likely.

@adubree86 - I would try an 80Hz or even 100Hz crossover.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Immersive sound usually comes from a sub that can pressurize a whole room. I wouldn’t upgrade speakers till you get a real sub. I would start at no less than a 15 inch from psa or rhythmic. Prob ported as well. You would really be surprised what you are missing with your current sub. You could prob find someone who lives close to you that would demo their systems. Just ask around in the manufactures forums for psa and rhythmic. Trust when I say you can never have enough bass.


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post #15 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Room layout
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L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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post #16 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I could pick up a used Klipsch SW-115 for $500 which is a 15” sub with frequency response down to 18Hz 400 watt continuous

L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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I could pick up a used Klipsch SW-115 for $500 which is a 15” sub with frequency response down to 18Hz 400 watt continuous
For $500 you could get a *new* SVS PB12 from Amazon, very similar to their $700 PB2000.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #18 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I could pick up a used Klipsch SW-115 for $500 which is a 15” sub with frequency response down to 18Hz 400 watt continuous
For $500 you could get a *new* SVS PB12 from Amazon, very similar to their $700 PB2000.
I was able to get the guy down to $425 on the sub. Would you recommend the new SVS PB 12” over the Klipsch 15” based on my room size?

L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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post #19 of 40 Old 01-07-2020, 08:29 PM
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I was able to get the guy down to $425 on the sub. Would you recommend the new SVS PB 12” over the Klipsch 15” based on my room size?
Your room appears to be about 500-600 square feet? Yes, I think the PB12 would do it. I am not sure I would really trust Klipsch's specs, they are known to fudge a lot...and also being a used sub you don't know just how much wear and tear the amplifier inside the sub has had.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #20 of 40 Old 01-08-2020, 09:06 PM
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Your room appears to be about 500-600 square feet? Yes, I think the PB12 would do it. I am not sure I would really trust Klipsch's specs, they are known to fudge a lot...and also being a used sub you don't know just how much wear and tear the amplifier inside the sub has had.
The 115-SW is actually a capable sub, from what I have read on here. Klipsch seemingly has corrected their amplifier issues, and for $425, is a pretty good deal for it.
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post #21 of 40 Old 01-08-2020, 10:48 PM
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The 115-SW is actually a capable sub, from what I have read on here. Klipsch seemingly has corrected their amplifier issues, and for $425, is a pretty good deal for it.
I think you're referring to the R-115SW, which only came out 1-2 years ago.

The OP is referring to a much older model:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...sch-sw-115-pre

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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I think you're referring to the R-115SW, which only came out 1-2 years ago.

The OP is referring to a much older model:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...sch-sw-115-pre
Damn Klipsch and their confusing product names!
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post #23 of 40 Old 01-09-2020, 05:26 PM
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Damn Klipsch and their confusing product names!
yep. Makes it convenient for the reseller, though.

If I were the OP I'd pay no more than $200 for what is probably a +10 year old sub, though I'll bet the original owner paid through the nose for it compared to a comparable sub today.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #24 of 40 Old 01-12-2020, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger of the SVS pb12-nsd. Now I’m looking to figure out my LRC. Gonna leave my Surrounds for now.
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Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger of the SVS pb12-nsd. Now I’m looking to figure out my LRC. Gonna leave my Surrounds for now.
Good for you, I think you'll be pleased.

If you can, post a photo of your current set up.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #26 of 40 Old 01-12-2020, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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My living room setup
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L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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post #27 of 40 Old 01-12-2020, 04:07 PM
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My living room setup
Some things I'd do asap to see how much improvement might be had:

1. Pull the center forward so that its front edge juts out 1-2" forward of the front edge of the table it's sitting on. Or, put rubber doorstop wedges under it so that it's angled slightly upwards.

2. Pull the towers forward so that their front edges are on the same plane as the front edge of the TV table, or 1-2" in front of it.

3. Turn your surrounds so that they face each other, not directly at the front speakers---your are likely experiencing some cancellation with the current positioning. Consider angling them upwards so that the tweeters are aimed at 1-2 feet ABOVE your ear level.
https://www.crutchfield.com/learn/le...placement.html

4. Buy a 20ft subwoofer cable and move your sub into a corner to get more output out of it. Likewise, when your SVS sub arrives, try your best NOT to put it where your current sub is---it's currently too close to the right tower, and floating in the middle of the room like that will not have any boundary reinforcement benefits. Google up "subwoofer crawl" and if possible, use it to find optimal positioning for your sub.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

Last edited by Zorba922; 01-12-2020 at 04:11 PM.
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post #28 of 40 Old 01-12-2020, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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My living room setup
Some things I'd do asap to see how much improvement might be had:

1. Pull the center forward so that its front edge juts out 1-2" forward of the front edge of the table it's sitting on.

2. Pull the towers forward so that their front edges are on the same plane as the front edge of the TV table, or 1-2" in front of it.

3. Buy a 20ft subwoofer cable and move your sub into a corner to get more output out of it. Likewise, when your SVS sub arrives, try your best NOT to put it where your current sub is---it's currently too close to the right tower, and floating in the middle of the room like that will not have any boundary reinforcement benefits. Google up "subwoofer crawl" and if possible, use it to find optimal positioning for your sub.
I’ve got a sub cable running to the back corner of the room but recently moved it to the front of the room to see if I’d like the difference. Will pulling the towers off the wall improve anything without rear ports? I’ll try moving the center and see if that helps any. Need to move my TV up a few inches as well.

L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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post #29 of 40 Old 01-12-2020, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I’ve been thinking very seriously on the Klipsch RP-440c

L/R Klipsch RP-260f Center Klipsch RP-450c, Surrounds Bic American 62si Sub SVS PB12-nds Receiver Onkyo TX-nr686
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post #30 of 40 Old 01-12-2020, 04:23 PM
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I’ve got a sub cable running to the back corner of the room but recently moved it to the front of the room to see if I’d like the difference. Will pulling the towers off the wall improve anything without rear ports? I’ll try moving the center and see if that helps any. Need to move my TV up a few inches as well.
The reason for my suggestion is to get all 3 front speakers to share the same horizontal plane depth-wise, and to avoid having part of their output bouncing off the cabinet.

Additionally, you should always experiment with different amounts of toe-in for the L/R speakers, this can vary widely depending on the speakers, room acoustics, sitting position, and personal preferences.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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