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post #1 of 27 Old 01-18-2020, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Got kef r3 and kef 650c for 2123usd is this a good buy? Any other recommendations

Wanting to know before i settle on these.

60 music 40 movies

10x20 room, going to add 2 **VTF-3 MK5 HP and surrounds.**

Also, what's the cheapest receiver to get the highest potential out of everything?
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-18-2020, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 500352474 View Post
Wanting to know before i settle on these.

60 music 40 movies

10x20 room, going to add 2 **VTF-3 MK5 HP and surrounds.**

Also, what's the cheapest receiver to get the highest potential out of everything?
Your pretty much got the q650c for free at that price!

Fantastic deal

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C, Q50a / Fluance Signature Series/ DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-IIReceiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300 Next Speakers: Triangle BR03, Revel Concerta2 M16, KEF LS50, Dynaudio Emit M20, Buchardt S400, Triangle Comet ez, KEF R3
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post #3 of 27 Old 01-18-2020, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 500352474 View Post
Wanting to know before i settle on these.

60 music 40 movies

10x20 room, going to add 2 **VTF-3 MK5 HP and surrounds.**

Also, what's the cheapest receiver to get the highest potential out of everything?
Your pretty much got the q650c for free at that price!

Fantastic deal
Get a reciever with pre outs so you have the flexibility off adding power down the road. Audyssey XT32 at a minimum

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C, Q50a / Fluance Signature Series/ DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-IIReceiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300 Next Speakers: Triangle BR03, Revel Concerta2 M16, KEF LS50, Dynaudio Emit M20, Buchardt S400, Triangle Comet ez, KEF R3
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post #4 of 27 Old 01-18-2020, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 500352474 View Post
Wanting to know before i settle on these.

60 music 40 movies

10x20 room, going to add 2 **VTF-3 MK5 HP and surrounds.**

Also, what's the cheapest receiver to get the highest potential out of everything?
Great deal, but if you think you could talk him down some more go for it. I'd go with the lowest model that has pre-outs and audyssey XT32, then add a used amp off ebay such as this NAD amp.
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-w/heos/1.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NAD-218-THX...edf687d5875ad3

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, Kef Kube 10B (X2) , Denon AVR-X3400H, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
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post #5 of 27 Old 01-18-2020, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 500352474 View Post
Wanting to know before i settle on these.

60 music 40 movies

10x20 room, going to add 2 **VTF-3 MK5 HP and surrounds.**

Also, what's the cheapest receiver to get the highest potential out of everything?
Great deal, but if you think you could talk him down some more go for it. I'd go with the lowest model that has pre-outs and audyssey XT32, then add a used amp off ebay such as this NAD amp.
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-w/heos/1.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NAD-218-THX...edf687d5875ad3
I've never had an amp before. How much of a difference does it make? Is it worlds apart? And how would you describe this difference sounds for someone that doesn't understand all the tech terms
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post #6 of 27 Old 01-18-2020, 10:19 PM
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Also, what's the cheapest receiver to get the highest potential out of everything?
Not cheap, but VERY good: https://www.anthemav.com/products-cu.../page=overview
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post #7 of 27 Old 01-19-2020, 04:15 AM
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I've never had an amp before. How much of a difference does it make? Is it worlds apart? And how would you describe this difference sounds for someone that doesn't understand all the tech terms
Here is a good comparison from an AVR and dedicated amp. It's pretty much what I would describe in my own experience.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post59092102

Kef LS50,Q200C, Q100, Kef Kube 10B (X2) , Denon AVR-X3400H, Panasonic 50" Plasma, Xbox One.
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-19-2020, 06:08 AM
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Denon X3600 or X4500.....the amp section was improved quite a bit over the 3500 and earlier versions, although the 3500 is available at closeout pricing. Any of those three choices will give you excellent dual subwoofer eq, and allow you to limit eq on your speakers to below Schroeder frequency using the cell phone Audysey app. Well designed speakers, such as your KEFs, should not be eq'd full range.

As far as external amps, I'd be cautious about adding the common "audiophile" brands....many aren't created equal, and you aren't likely to change the "actual" sound unless you run out of power. This doesn't mean many folks don't hear magical differences, there are many reasons why they do...its just very seldom due to any "real" audible difference. But again, it depends on how sensitive your speakers are, how far you sit from them, and how loud you want to listen. Again, its common for people to hear all sorts of magical differences when they get their shiny new gear. But controlled listening tests show otherwise unless you need more power.

If you do decide to consider an external amp, I'd look at the Monoprice Monolith with how ever many channels you'd like it to push(at least the LCR). Objective measured performance is very good and priced right. Around $1300 for 3 channel but even the 5-7 channel is reasonable.

If you want even better performance, I'd look at the Nord NC500 based 3 channel, around $1700. You won't find any amps that perform better any where near the same price, or ever much higher.
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post #9 of 27 Old 01-21-2020, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Denon X3600 or X4500.....the amp section was improved quite a bit over the 3500 and earlier versions, although the 3500 is available at closeout pricing. Any of those three choices will give you excellent dual subwoofer eq, and allow you to limit eq on your speakers to below Schroeder frequency using the cell phone Audysey app. Well designed speakers, such as your KEFs, should not be eq'd full range.

As far as external amps, I'd be cautious about adding the common "audiophile" brands....many aren't created equal, and you aren't likely to change the "actual" sound unless you run out of power. This doesn't mean many folks don't hear magical differences, there are many reasons why they do...its just very seldom due to any "real" audible difference. But again, it depends on how sensitive your speakers are, how far you sit from them, and how loud you want to listen. Again, its common for people to hear all sorts of magical differences when they get their shiny new gear. But controlled listening tests show otherwise unless you need more power.

If you do decide to consider an external amp, I'd look at the Monoprice Monolith with how ever many channels you'd like it to push(at least the LCR). Objective measured performance is very good and priced right. Around $1300 for 3 channel but even the 5-7 channel is reasonable.

If you want even better performance, I'd look at the Nord NC500 based 3 channel, around $1700. You won't find any amps that perform better any where near the same price, or ever much higher.
which would you get out of those receivers? will i notice a difference?
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 03:23 AM
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which would you get out of those receivers? will i notice a difference?
I don't know what receiver you have now, so really hard for me to comment.

The X3500 would be the cheapest option to get the highest level of Audysey. What's important here is that it will give you excellent dual subwoofer eq. Dual subs properly placed AND eq'd are almost mandatory for high fidelity if musical sound quality is of any concern. This receiver checks that box. The other major factor for sound quality is the ability to eq low frequency below Schroeder....usually around 300 Hz or so. However, with well designed speakers(such as your KEF), you don't want full band eq.....the Audysey cell phone app available with the Denon does allow you to limit eq below the frequency of your choice. These are, imo, the three most important things that will affect sound quality and fidelity....good speakers, properly placed and eq'd dual subs, and eq below Schroeder. That is the basis for high fidelity. So essentially, without any of those three things, one's system is nearly guaranteed to be low fidelity.

The 3500 is available reconditioned on Accessories4Less for $499 and you might find a good deal on a new one if you shop around. The 3600 does have a substantially upgraded amp section but its a newer model and the cheapest I've seen it is $749. IMO, at spirited levels with multiple channels being driven, the 3600 would be worth it, especially if it is the AVR you will keep for 5+ years....a couple hundred $ difference isn't a big deal imo for a better product.

Personally, I'd lean towards the 3600 even if you have to wait a bit for price to come down a bit.

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post #11 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 500352474 View Post
Wanting to know before i settle on these.

60 music 40 movies

10x20 room, going to add 2 **VTF-3 MK5 HP and surrounds.**

Also, what's the cheapest receiver to get the highest potential out of everything?
That is a heck of a deal! Basically getting the center channel for $123 bucks!

Main Room: 65'' Samsung Q90R; AVR: Denon AVR X-4500H; AMP: Monolith 3-Channel Amp; Center Channel: KEF R2C; L/R Channels: KEF R3; Atmos: KEF R8A; LFE: SVS-PB3000; UHD Blu-Ray Player: Sony UBP-X800; Gaming: PS4 Pro; Streaming Device: Apple TV 4K Secondary Room: 49'' Samsung MU7000; AVR: Denon AVR S-720W; Center Channel: Polk Signature S-35; L/R Channels: Polk Signature S-20; IEMs: Shure 846, Shure 535; DAC/Amp: Dragonfly Cobalt, JDS Labs C5D
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 08:39 AM
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I don't know what receiver you have now, so really hard for me to comment.

The X3500 would be the cheapest option to get the highest level of Audysey. What's important here is that it will give you excellent dual subwoofer eq. Dual subs properly placed AND eq'd are almost mandatory for high fidelity if musical sound quality is of any concern. This receiver checks that box. The other major factor for sound quality is the ability to eq low frequency below Schroeder....usually around 300 Hz or so. However, with well designed speakers(such as your KEF), you don't want full band eq.....the Audysey cell phone app available with the Denon does allow you to limit eq below the frequency of your choice. These are, imo, the three most important things that will affect sound quality and fidelity....good speakers, properly placed and eq'd dual subs, and eq below Schroeder. That is the basis for high fidelity. So essentially, without any of those three things, one's system is nearly guaranteed to be low fidelity.

The 3500 is available reconditioned on Accessories4Less for $499 and you might find a good deal on a new one if you shop around. The 3600 does have a substantially upgraded amp section but its a newer model and the cheapest I've seen it is $749. IMO, at spirited levels with multiple channels being driven, the 3600 would be worth it, especially if it is the AVR you will keep for 5+ years....a couple hundred $ difference isn't a big deal imo for a better product.

Personally, I'd lean towards the 3600 even if you have to wait a bit for price to come down a bit.
I'm curious about the substantially upgraded amp section of the 3600 over the 3500 - Denon says they're both rated at 105W for 2 channels - just wondering what improvements were made?
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 08:44 AM
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The other major factor for sound quality is the ability to eq low frequency below Schroeder....usually around 300 Hz or so. However, with well designed speakers(such as your KEF), you don't want full band eq.....the Audysey cell phone app available with the Denon does allow you to limit eq below the frequency of your choice. These are, imo, the three most important things that will affect sound quality and fidelity....good speakers, properly placed and eq'd dual subs, and eq below Schroeder. That is the basis for high fidelity. So essentially, without any of those three things, one's system is nearly guaranteed to be low fidelity.
Forgive me as I'm fairly new to this. I'm also a recent KEF R3 owner, and I also have them connected to the Denon X4500 receiver + Monoprice Monolith Amps. I've done Audyssey XT32 directly from the receiver but have not messed with the MultEQ app yet (although I have it downloaded). Can you explain or link me the benefits of calibrating via the app to only EQ below the Schroeder frequency? Does that mean that anything below the frequency (lets say 300Hz) gets eq'd and anything above that does not? If not EQ'ed does the room layout still have an impact?

I have the R3's and I love the way they sound, but now it seems like I can get even better sound quality by using the app as I've only done the standard calibration through the AVR? I would appreciate any help and if there are any instructions on how to properly do this, I welcome it.

Thanks!

Main Room: 65'' Samsung Q90R; AVR: Denon AVR X-4500H; AMP: Monolith 3-Channel Amp; Center Channel: KEF R2C; L/R Channels: KEF R3; Atmos: KEF R8A; LFE: SVS-PB3000; UHD Blu-Ray Player: Sony UBP-X800; Gaming: PS4 Pro; Streaming Device: Apple TV 4K Secondary Room: 49'' Samsung MU7000; AVR: Denon AVR S-720W; Center Channel: Polk Signature S-35; L/R Channels: Polk Signature S-20; IEMs: Shure 846, Shure 535; DAC/Amp: Dragonfly Cobalt, JDS Labs C5D
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post #14 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 08:50 AM
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I'm curious about the substantially upgraded amp section of the 3600 over the 3500 - Denon says they're both rated at 105W for 2 channels - just wondering what improvements were made?
3500 is limited to 7 channels
3600 has 9 amplifiers and pre-outs to expand the system to 11 channels

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C, Q50a / Fluance Signature Series/ DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-IIReceiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300 Next Speakers: Triangle BR03, Revel Concerta2 M16, KEF LS50, Dynaudio Emit M20, Buchardt S400, Triangle Comet ez, KEF R3
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 05:12 PM
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I'm curious about the substantially upgraded amp section of the 3600 over the 3500 - Denon says they're both rated at 105W for 2 channels - just wondering what improvements were made?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...w.10053/page-3


Post 51 shows the upgraded amp architecture of the 3600...its basically the same as what was being used in the 4500.

More detailed info here:

https://www.audioholics.com/av-recei...non-avr-x3600h
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post #16 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 05:17 PM
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Forgive me as I'm fairly new to this. I'm also a recent KEF R3 owner, and I also have them connected to the Denon X4500 receiver + Monoprice Monolith Amps. I've done Audyssey XT32 directly from the receiver but have not messed with the MultEQ app yet (although I have it downloaded). Can you explain or link me the benefits of calibrating via the app to only EQ below the Schroeder frequency? Does that mean that anything below the frequency (lets say 300Hz) gets eq'd and anything above that does not? If not EQ'ed does the room layout still have an impact?

I have the R3's and I love the way they sound, but now it seems like I can get even better sound quality by using the app as I've only done the standard calibration through the AVR? I would appreciate any help and if there are any instructions on how to properly do this, I welcome it.

Thanks!
Open the app on your phone and use it to run Audysey as you normally would. After it is finished, you can go into the app, select the calibration, and choose "MultEQ Filter Frequency Range" from the menu that pops up. Simply use your finger to adjust the frequency up to which Audysey will apply eq for each speaker. If you select 300 Hz for example, Audysey will only apply eq below that point and allow your speakers to play as designed above that, where the room no longer dominates the response.

I don't currently have a link handy regarding this being optimal, but perhaps if you search some of Floyd Toole's work you may find it. I'll link it if I run across it.

The room tends to completely trash response below 300 Hz or so. Eq'ing this range is necessary for high fidelity. Well designed speakers should not be eq'd above this range because they are designed to take advantage of the room with neutral, accurate off axis response that closely matches the on axis response. Reflections therefore enhance and improve sound quality, giving a large soundstage and a big, full sound, since reflected sound matches direct sound. With poorly designed speakers, I suppose full range eq may be beneficial as reflected sound will be a poor match to the on axis sound; the lesser of two evils?

Here's a brief snippet.....not a lot of detail but gives some general idea:
https://hub.yamaha.com/how-we-interpret-sound/

Also, this is an amazing quote:

“Manufacturers of quality loudspeakers tend to reveal the performance of their products. Others don’t. You should be skeptical of those who don’t.”

-Floyd Toole-

Last edited by bear123; 01-22-2020 at 05:27 PM.
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-22-2020, 07:04 PM
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Open the app on your phone and use it to run Audysey as you normally would. After it is finished, you can go into the app, select the calibration, and choose "MultEQ Filter Frequency Range" from the menu that pops up. Simply use your finger to adjust the frequency up to which Audysey will apply eq for each speaker. If you select 300 Hz for example, Audysey will only apply eq below that point and allow your speakers to play as designed above that, where the room no longer dominates the response.

I don't currently have a link handy regarding this being optimal, but perhaps if you search some of Floyd Toole's work you may find it. I'll link it if I run across it.

The room tends to completely trash response below 300 Hz or so. Eq'ing this range is necessary for high fidelity. Well designed speakers should not be eq'd above this range because they are designed to take advantage of the room with neutral, accurate off axis response that closely matches the on axis response. Reflections therefore enhance and improve sound quality, giving a large soundstage and a big, full sound, since reflected sound matches direct sound. With poorly designed speakers, I suppose full range eq may be beneficial as reflected sound will be a poor match to the on axis sound; the lesser of two evils?

Here's a brief snippet.....not a lot of detail but gives some general idea:
https://hub.yamaha.com/how-we-interpret-sound/

Also, this is an amazing quote:

“Manufacturers of quality loudspeakers tend to reveal the performance of their products. Others don’t. You should be skeptical of those who don’t.”

-Floyd Toole-
Thank you. Very helpful. I will try it out over the weekend.

Main Room: 65'' Samsung Q90R; AVR: Denon AVR X-4500H; AMP: Monolith 3-Channel Amp; Center Channel: KEF R2C; L/R Channels: KEF R3; Atmos: KEF R8A; LFE: SVS-PB3000; UHD Blu-Ray Player: Sony UBP-X800; Gaming: PS4 Pro; Streaming Device: Apple TV 4K Secondary Room: 49'' Samsung MU7000; AVR: Denon AVR S-720W; Center Channel: Polk Signature S-35; L/R Channels: Polk Signature S-20; IEMs: Shure 846, Shure 535; DAC/Amp: Dragonfly Cobalt, JDS Labs C5D
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-26-2020, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...w.10053/page-3


Post 51 shows the upgraded amp architecture of the 3600...its basically the same as what was being used in the 4500.

More detailed info here:

https://www.audioholics.com/av-recei...non-avr-x3600h
is there any reason to get the 3500 over the 3600 or the 4500 over the 3500 if im max ever going to do 5.1?
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-26-2020, 06:45 PM
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is there any reason to get the 3500 over the 3600 or the 4500 over the 3500 if im max ever going to do 5.1?
I have the 3300 and don't see myself "upgrading" to the 3600 or 4500. The 3600 does have much better heat sinking along with a pair of fans......this will result in drastically cooler operation and I've read reports of the Denon shutting down or reducing output when playing multi channel at spirited levels i.e. reference level. I've had my Denon shutdown doing high output compression sweeps, but never in normal use.

The 3600 does *not* have a bigger or better power supply than previous version, which I think is what would have been a worthwhile advantage. All I can say is, read the review on ASR of the 3500, and Audioholics review of the 3300 and 3600 and decide for yourself. It won't be night and day.

I don't plan to go beyond 5 channels but still think an improved amp section has some value. Not sure if it is worth a large cost difference and will be a few months before the 3600 comes down in price.
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-27-2020, 06:18 AM
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is there any reason to get the 3500 over the 3600 or the 4500 over the 3500 if im max ever going to do 5.1?



Same power supply with the 3500/3600. Never say never as you could always add atmos modules on top of your L/R and surrounds


The 3500/3600/4500 are almost a wash with 5 channels driven, The big difference is with the 4500's 4 ohm capabilities 2 channels WHICH is important with KEF speakers since they often dip into the 3-4 ohms range. The only advantage the 4500 holds over the 3xxx series is a better dac/al32 processing/clock Jitter which you may or may not notice in 2 channel listening(music)

If you're 110% certain you'll never go beyond 5 channels then i would opt for the cheapest of the 3 and add a 2 channel amplifier down the road.

3600:

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 8-Ohm Load
0.1% distortion at 123.0 watts
1% distortion at 147.6 watts

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 4-Ohm Loads
0.1% distortion at 145.4
1% distortion at 176.6

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 97.6 watts
1% distortion at 106.1 watts



4500

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 8-Ohm Load
0.1% distortion at 124.3 watts
1% distortion at 149.2 watts

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 4-Ohm Loads
0.1% distortion at 215.9 watts
1% distortion at 239.7 watts

Five Channels Continuously Driven, 8-Ohm Loads
0.1% distortion at 94.6 watts
1% distortion at 118.0 watts

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C, Q50a / Fluance Signature Series/ DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-IIReceiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300 Next Speakers: Triangle BR03, Revel Concerta2 M16, KEF LS50, Dynaudio Emit M20, Buchardt S400, Triangle Comet ez, KEF R3

Last edited by macgallant; 01-27-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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post #21 of 27 Old 01-27-2020, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
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Originally Posted by jmbgator View Post
Forgive me as I'm fairly new to this. I'm also a recent KEF R3 owner, and I also have them connected to the Denon X4500 receiver + Monoprice Monolith Amps. I've done Audyssey XT32 directly from the receiver but have not messed with the MultEQ app yet (although I have it downloaded). Can you explain or link me the benefits of calibrating via the app to only EQ below the Schroeder frequency? Does that mean that anything below the frequency (lets say 300Hz) gets eq'd and anything above that does not? If not EQ'ed does the room layout still have an impact?

I have the R3's and I love the way they sound, but now it seems like I can get even better sound quality by using the app as I've only done the standard calibration through the AVR? I would appreciate any help and if there are any instructions on how to properly do this, I welcome it.

Thanks!
Open the app on your phone and use it to run Audysey as you normally would. After it is finished, you can go into the app, select the calibration, and choose "MultEQ Filter Frequency Range" from the menu that pops up. Simply use your finger to adjust the frequency up to which Audysey will apply eq for each speaker. If you select 300 Hz for example, Audysey will only apply eq below that point and allow your speakers to play as designed above that, where the room no longer dominates the response.

I don't currently have a link handy regarding this being optimal, but perhaps if you search some of Floyd Toole's work you may find it. I'll link it if I run across it.

The room tends to completely trash response below 300 Hz or so. Eq'ing this range is necessary for high fidelity. Well designed speakers should not be eq'd above this range because they are designed to take advantage of the room with neutral, accurate off axis response that closely matches the on axis response. Reflections therefore enhance and improve sound quality, giving a large soundstage and a big, full sound, since reflected sound matches direct sound. With poorly designed speakers, I suppose full range eq may be beneficial as reflected sound will be a poor match to the on axis sound; the lesser of two evils?

Here's a brief snippet.....not a lot of detail but gives some general idea:
https://hub.yamaha.com/how-we-interpret-sound/

Also, this is an amazing quote:

“Manufacturers of quality loudspeakers tend to reveal the performance of their products. Others don’️t. You should be skeptical of those who don’️t.”

-Floyd Toole-
I have a x4500 and just tried to do this using the Denon app. I can't find that option anywhere? Am I missing something? Thanks for the help!
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-27-2020, 11:31 AM
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I have a x4500 and just tried to do this using the Denon app. I can't find that option anywhere? Am I missing something? Thanks for the help!
I believe that with the mobile app, you have to go to "MultEQ Filter Frequency Range"; then choose your speaker (such as "Front"), and drag the vertical dotted line at 20khz with your finger down to the frequency that you want to no longer EQ. Lets say you drag it all the way down to "300Hz". Therefore, anything below the 300 Hz will be EQed by Audyssey; and anything above 300Hz will not be EQed and your speakers will play those frequencies as they were designed.

Main Room: 65'' Samsung Q90R; AVR: Denon AVR X-4500H; AMP: Monolith 3-Channel Amp; Center Channel: KEF R2C; L/R Channels: KEF R3; Atmos: KEF R8A; LFE: SVS-PB3000; UHD Blu-Ray Player: Sony UBP-X800; Gaming: PS4 Pro; Streaming Device: Apple TV 4K Secondary Room: 49'' Samsung MU7000; AVR: Denon AVR S-720W; Center Channel: Polk Signature S-35; L/R Channels: Polk Signature S-20; IEMs: Shure 846, Shure 535; DAC/Amp: Dragonfly Cobalt, JDS Labs C5D
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post #23 of 27 Old 01-29-2020, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Same power supply with the 3500/3600. Never say never as you could always add atmos modules on top of your L/R and surrounds


The 3500/3600/4500 are almost a wash with 5 channels driven, The big difference is with the 4500's 4 ohm capabilities 2 channels WHICH is important with KEF speakers since they often dip into the 3-4 ohms range. The only advantage the 4500 holds over the 3xxx series is a better dac/al32 processing/clock Jitter which you may or may not notice in 2 channel listening(music)

If you're 110% certain you'll never go beyond 5 channels then i would opt for the cheapest of the 3 and add a 2 channel amplifier down the road.

3600:

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 8-Ohm Load
0.1% distortion at 123.0 watts
1% distortion at 147.6 watts

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 4-Ohm Loads
0.1% distortion at 145.4
1% distortion at 176.6

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 97.6 watts
1% distortion at 106.1 watts



4500

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 8-Ohm Load
0.1% distortion at 124.3 watts
1% distortion at 149.2 watts

Two Channels Continuously Driven, 4-Ohm Loads
0.1% distortion at 215.9 watts
1% distortion at 239.7 watts

Five Channels Continuously Driven, 8-Ohm Loads
0.1% distortion at 94.6 watts
1% distortion at 118.0 watts
sorry I'm still unable to make a decision as I'm still confused about a few things.

maybe this will clarify. If I wanted to get the best sound and max potential out of the kef r3 in a 2.0 setup, what is the best thing I should buy? In addition to that, I would want to have the ability to do a 5.1 - possibly a 5.2 down the road. I read somewhere that the kef r3 dip down to a certain ohm so I would want to make sure the receiver / amp can handle that, but you are the only person in this thread to bring that up so I'm not sure if everyone else has overlooked that?

Is there a point of diminishing return for receivers? Am I paying more for a receiver / amp just for the ability to add more channels?
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post #24 of 27 Old 01-30-2020, 06:27 AM
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sorry I'm still unable to make a decision as I'm still confused about a few things.

maybe this will clarify. If I wanted to get the best sound and max potential out of the kef r3 in a 2.0 setup, what is the best thing I should buy? In addition to that, I would want to have the ability to do a 5.1 - possibly a 5.2 down the road. I read somewhere that the kef r3 dip down to a certain ohm so I would want to make sure the receiver / amp can handle that, but you are the only person in this thread to bring that up so I'm not sure if everyone else has overlooked that?

Is there a point of diminishing return for receivers? Am I paying more for a receiver / amp just for the ability to add more channels?

they all have pre-outs to add external amplification and use the same audyssey calibration XT32.

The 4500 does have a better DAC, Clock Jitter which helps for 2.0 music.
The 4500 also has significantly more power at 4 ohms vs the 3500/3600


Will you notice? maybe.

Speakers: KEF Q100, Q300, Q750, Q650C, Q50a / Fluance Signature Series/ DCM TP160S-CH Subwoofers: Outlaw Ultra X12 (x2) / BIC H100-IIReceiver: Denon AVR-X4500H, AVR-X1400H Integrated Amplifier: Yamaha A-S501/ Fosi Audio TPA3116 mini amp Extras: MiniDSP Umik-1 Amplifier: Emotiva BasX-A300 Next Speakers: Triangle BR03, Revel Concerta2 M16, KEF LS50, Dynaudio Emit M20, Buchardt S400, Triangle Comet ez, KEF R3
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post #25 of 27 Old 01-30-2020, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 500352474 View Post
sorry I'm still unable to make a decision as I'm still confused about a few things.

maybe this will clarify. If I wanted to get the best sound and max potential out of the kef r3 in a 2.0 setup, what is the best thing I should buy? In addition to that, I would want to have the ability to do a 5.1 - possibly a 5.2 down the road. I read somewhere that the kef r3 dip down to a certain ohm so I would want to make sure the receiver / amp can handle that, but you are the only person in this thread to bring that up so I'm not sure if everyone else has overlooked that?

Is there a point of diminishing return for receivers? Am I paying more for a receiver / amp just for the ability to add more channels?
I have an R3 paired with a 4500 and it matches up nicely. I wouldn't worry too much about the dip unless your planning on blasting the volume to insanely high volumes. Then you would have other issues to worry about. I'm also using the pre-outs from the 4500 into a separate Monolith amp for better dynamics and headroom, but TBH I haven't noticed much of a difference from when I had the R3's plugged directly to the 4500.

Main Room: 65'' Samsung Q90R; AVR: Denon AVR X-4500H; AMP: Monolith 3-Channel Amp; Center Channel: KEF R2C; L/R Channels: KEF R3; Atmos: KEF R8A; LFE: SVS-PB3000; UHD Blu-Ray Player: Sony UBP-X800; Gaming: PS4 Pro; Streaming Device: Apple TV 4K Secondary Room: 49'' Samsung MU7000; AVR: Denon AVR S-720W; Center Channel: Polk Signature S-35; L/R Channels: Polk Signature S-20; IEMs: Shure 846, Shure 535; DAC/Amp: Dragonfly Cobalt, JDS Labs C5D
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post #26 of 27 Old 01-30-2020, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 500352474 View Post
sorry I'm still unable to make a decision as I'm still confused about a few things.

maybe this will clarify. If I wanted to get the best sound and max potential out of the kef r3 in a 2.0 setup, what is the best thing I should buy? In addition to that, I would want to have the ability to do a 5.1 - possibly a 5.2 down the road. I read somewhere that the kef r3 dip down to a certain ohm so I would want to make sure the receiver / amp can handle that, but you are the only person in this thread to bring that up so I'm not sure if everyone else has overlooked that?

Is there a point of diminishing return for receivers? Am I paying more for a receiver / amp just for the ability to add more channels?

they all have pre-outs to add external amplification and use the same audyssey calibration XT32.

The 4500 does have a better DAC, Clock Jitter which helps for 2.0 music.
The 4500 also has significantly more power at 4 ohms vs the 3500/3600


Will you notice? maybe.
Do you recommend anything from nad or amrac over Denon?
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How do you like your R3? I've been listening to this speaker at my local BB (I'm sure they're tired of me by now) and it's on my short list. I also have a Denon 3500 so am really curious to read about your impressions.
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