Listening impressions: Ascend Sierra 2-EX vs. Revel F206 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Russ may be right about give it some time. Two questions: (1) is break-in real? (2) Do soft dome tweeters have poor vertical dispersion? I thought they had good dispersion.

Q1. I played the Xeo 10 continuously the last 3 days and didn't like them. Today, they're much better. But see below.

Q2. I had placed the Xeo 10 on my desktop the last 3 days with tweeter 1' below my ears. Sound was dull. The Xeo 10 stands just arrived and tweeters are at ear level now, much punchier treble and upper mids! The decision to return the Xeo 10 just got harder.

Google Play Music that sounds great on Sonos still doesn't sound great on Xeo 10. But Tidal HiFi (better than CD quality) now amazing on the Xeo 10 especially at lower volumes. But this means I must pay $20 a month?? Wife's gonna kill me.
"break in" imo is about 90% "ear adjustment"... soft domes vary in dispersion depending on the baffle, waveguide, and type of dome , but in general have more of a 360 deg dispersion than flat tweeters... hang on to the dyns for a bit (use up some more of the return window).. they are pretty well liked and the true dyn fans are pretty hard core..
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post #62 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Russ may be right about give it some time. Two questions: (1) is break-in real? (2) Do soft dome tweeters have poor vertical dispersion? I thought they had good dispersion.



Q1. I played the Xeo 10 continuously the last 3 days and didn't like them. Today, they're much better. But see below.



Q2. I had placed the Xeo 10 on my desktop the last 3 days with tweeter 1' below my ears. Sound was dull. The Xeo 10 stands just arrived and tweeters are at ear level now, much punchier treble and upper mids! The decision to return the Xeo 10 just got harder.



Google Play Music that sounds great on Sonos still doesn't sound great on Xeo 10. But Tidal HiFi (better than CD quality) now amazing on the Xeo 10 especially at lower volumes. But this means I must pay $20 a month?? Wife's gonna kill me.

Q1. Break in is not real. But you must give yourself time to hear the differences between the Xeo10 and a Sonos speaker. One has a built in EQ curve, the other has a flat response. Being able to switch between the two in quick succession would be helpful.

Q2. Soft dome tweeters generally do not have poor vertical dispersion, only ribbon tweeters with extended lengths (think long RAAL tweeter) do.

There are too many variables between the Sonos+Google Play Music and Xeo 10 + Tidal to compare them equally.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #63 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Q1. Break in is not real. But you must give yourself time to hear the differences between the Xeo10 and a Sonos speaker. One has a built in EQ curve, the other has a flat response. Being able to switch between the two in quick succession would be helpful.

Q2. Soft dome tweeters generally do not have poor vertical dispersion, only ribbon tweeters with extended lengths (think long RAAL tweeter) do.

There are too many variables between the Sonos+Google Play Music and Xeo 10 + Tidal to compare them equally.
Ya, the fact that I'm now finding it had to justify returning the Xeo 10 likely means I'm very near deciding on the right speaker for the desktop I'm trying to setup. I tried Google Play Max, Google Home, Polk s15+AVR, Sonos, Polk T15, this Xeo 10, Fugoo XL so far. I've never had a $1500 speaker before so may be biased by the vocal-forward experiences I've liked in the past. The Xeo 10 seems to treat vocals like any other instrument and not boost it but I find them suppressed. Thanks Russ.
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post #64 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Q2. I had placed the Xeo 10 on my desktop the last 3 days with tweeter 1' below my ears. Sound was dull. The Xeo 10 stands just arrived and tweeters are at ear level now, much punchier treble and upper mids! The decision to return the Xeo 10 just got harder.
Speaker positioning is everything, a point that a lot of people miss when rushing to get the latest electronic bells and whistles and assuming that Audyssey is going to fix all their troubles. But you don't really need any special stands...$10/pr yoga blocks will do, or angled foam pads like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Addicte...dp/B078PQ7TLD/
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post #65 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Speaker positioning is everything, a point that a lot of people miss when rushing to get the latest electronic bells and whistles and assuming that Audyssey is going to fix all their troubles. But you don't really need any special stands...$10/pr yoga blocks will do, or angled foam pads like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Addicte...dp/B078PQ7TLD/
Also purpose of listening is important, I'm unable to focus on work at my desktop with the Xeo 10 because they keep saying "listen to me" while the Sonos is easily ignored.
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post #66 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 04:12 PM
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I applaud the effort to compare- it is boring and time consuming if you only try by yourself however wanted to add my $0.02 here.
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....Just got a good deal on used Revel F206's and decided to get them for my bedroom. I've just had 1 day with them so my initial impressions may eventually change. Decided to compare them to my Sierra 2-EX's. Please note the test wasn't blind. I did my best to level match by ear, but obviously didn't have an instrumentation to make that accurate.<snip>
1 dB difference can make a perceptible difference when you compare gear- (hint: louder one wins or is preferred to, most of the time). Doing A-B comparison will also make you notice more sonics about B and not as much about A-(normal human mind at work) so do B-A comparison as well.

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....So yeah, it definitely lacks scientific rigor, but maybe it could still be useful.
<snip>
Without any serious level matching this is a bunch of impressions/words. Investing time with a sound meter (for a start) is simpler step to begin with. Hope folks interpret such attempts with bigger grain of salt than usual
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post #67 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
*snip*
Content quality today isn't very good. A search on the Loudness Wars shows part of the problem. There are oceans of compressed and lossy content available that, when played on a transparent and detailed system, are an ice pick in the ear. While there are also audiophile kinds of recordings that are stunningly good on these transparent and detailed systems, most of us listen to more than just audiophile recordings. For example, that kind of recording is less than 1% of what's in my collection.
*snip*
I keep hearing this...I listen to a lot of modern pop and rock music and I find most currently released music to sound amazing on my (current) system. There are incredible details, lots of sound-staging, and there still exist some dynamics. Is it louder? Sure; I control the volume when needed. The biggest difference I find between today's and early recordings is the "simplicity". Today, I find there is tons of spectral content -- a lot going on. Tons of little noises scattered around the sound stage. Some people call it "overproduced", but I tend to enjoy it. It's like I can pick a sound, listen to it for a while, get a handle on its beat pattern, then pick another -- replayability, lol. Best thing, it's usually pretty easy to do, because each sound seems to enjoy its own little space in the soundstage; once I hone in on it, it stays put, "popping up" reliably whenever called for.

So, I say you can hate modern content / production all you want, but, IMO, the mixing is not getting worse (though it is different). Moreover, since the "production" creates more and more spectral content, IMO, it becomes more and more taxing on "audiophile" systems; any frequency abnormality (something most "audiophiles" never seem to measure) masks or destroys quite a bit more content and muddies everything up. Playing simple content is simple, if all you have is, e.g., a singer and a sax then the spectrum is not exactly as wide as, e.g., a modern EDM piece that computer-generates a full bandwidth of sound and then heavily leverages time-intensity-trading (and or phasing) to create sound-stage and effects. These pieces paint a picture in front of me when I listen to them, with tons of "colors" (sounds) brushed all over...in fact, sometimes I find older recordings boring in comparison.

Further, some of the worst recordings I have heard lately are classical. I've was looking for piano music on Tidal and there were tracks where I could hear people breathing in the room while the focus should be on the bloody piano. Tracks where I could hear thuds like there was someone randomly jumping on the floor above the "studio" -- maybe I shouldn't have subs that play down so low, lol. On top of this, so many tracks had a stupid high noise floor so I have to listen through all kinds of hiss (and it's not from my signal chain!). Now, when I found good ones, they were incredible (though, often, mixed much lower; no problem, just a "twist" of the 'ole volume knob).

So, give me your worst, I want to see how bad it is; I think I should start a thread, lol.

P.S. I'm not saying there isn't bad modern content. For example, I have heard digital clipping in some music and it is super annoying. But, for every botched piece, there are many that are still great. Do I still like a track that "rides the fader", slowly bringing me along for a ride? Sure! But, there is something different in these "overproduced" pieces that I also enjoy...I think that gets lost on many folks (and it may just be because their "audiophile system" isn't quite as transparent as they think because it's "colored" just right for their tastes).

P.P.S. While I quoted you, please don't assume I am implying your system or tastes are poor...I am just putting out another perspective. If you hate the music or think your system reproduces it poorly and don't think it could ever sound good, that's just fine. But, I find a lot of music to sound amazing over my way...and it wasn't always like that.
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post #68 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
I keep hearing this...I listen to a lot of modern pop and rock music and I find most currently released music to sound amazing on my (current) system. There are incredible details, lots of sound-staging, and there still exist some dynamics. Is it louder? Sure; I control the volume when needed. The biggest difference I find between today's and early recordings is the "simplicity". Today, I find there is tons of spectral content -- a lot going on. Tons of little noises scattered around the sound stage. Some people call it "overproduced", but I tend to enjoy it. It's like I can pick a sound, listen to it for a while, get a handle on its beat pattern, then pick another -- replayability, lol. Best thing, it's usually pretty easy to do, because each sound seems to enjoy its own little space in the soundstage; once I hone in on it, it stays put, "popping up" reliably whenever called for.

So, I say you can hate modern content / production all you want, but, IMO, the mixing is not getting worse (though it is different). Moreover, since the "production" creates more and more spectral content, IMO, it becomes more and more taxing on "audiophile" systems; any frequency abnormality (something most "audiophiles" never seem to measure) masks or destroys quite a bit more content and muddies everything up. Playing simple content is simple, if all you have is, e.g., a singer and a sax then the spectrum is not exactly as wide as, e.g., a modern EDM piece that computer-generates a full bandwidth of sound and then heavily leverages time-intensity-trading (and or phasing) to create sound-stage and effects. These pieces paint a picture in front of me when I listen to them, with tons of "colors" (sounds) brushed all over...in fact, sometimes I find older recordings boring in comparison.

Further, some of the worst recordings I have heard lately are classical. I've was looking for piano music on Tidal and there were tracks where I could hear people breathing in the room while the focus should be on the bloody piano. Tracks where I could hear thuds like there was someone randomly jumping on the floor above the "studio" -- maybe I shouldn't have subs that play down so low, lol. On top of this, so many tracks had a stupid high noise floor so I have to listen through all kinds of hiss (and it's not from my signal chain!). Now, when I found good ones, they were incredible (though, often, mixed much lower; no problem, just a "twist" of the 'ole volume knob).

So, give me your worst, I want to see how bad it is; I think I should start a thread, lol.

P.S. I'm not saying there isn't bad modern content. For example, I have heard digital clipping in some music and it is super annoying. But, for every botched piece, there are many that are still great. Do I still like a track that "rides the fader", slowly bringing me along for a ride? Sure! But, there is something different in these "overproduced" pieces that I also enjoy...I think that gets lost on many folks (and it may just be because their "audiophile system" isn't quite as transparent as they think because it's "colored" just right for their tastes).

P.P.S. While I quoted you, please don't assume I am implying your system or tastes are poor...I am just putting out another perspective. If you hate the music or think your system reproduces it poorly and don't think it could ever sound good, that's just fine. But, I find a lot of music to sound amazing over my way...and it wasn't always like that.
Quite a long post so I'll be parsing it for a while.

Meanwhile, perhaps a common understanding of what I'm saying is a good place to start. This isn't about content preferences. This is about production that values lossy content for space considerations and compressed dynamic range. Try running foobar2000's plugin for dynamic range analysis over some of your local content. What numbers are you seeing? At one time I downloaded a fair amount from a well regarded hi-rez source but gave it up because they just didn't sound very good. The plugin hinted at the issue that the DR Database explains.
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post #69 of 273 Old 02-11-2020, 08:50 PM
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speakers just sound different. some people are happy with getting something good while others are very picky. measurements can get you 25% of the way there. room and positioning another 50-60%, gear maybe 10-20%.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Tidal HiFi (better than CD quality)
Tidal HiFi is CD quality.

Tidal Masters/MQA is better than CD quality. They have limited number of such albums in their library. Whether your streaming device is capable of properly passing such stream to your DAC is a separate question.
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post #71 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Quite a long post so I'll be parsing it for a while.

Meanwhile, perhaps a common understanding of what I'm saying is a good place to start. This isn't about content preferences. This is about production that values lossy content for space considerations and compressed dynamic range. Try running foobar2000's plugin for dynamic range analysis over some of your local content. What numbers are you seeing? At one time I downloaded a fair amount from a well regarded hi-rez source but gave it up because they just didn't sound very good. The plugin hinted at the issue that the DR Database explains.
Oh, I understand what you're saying -- I think what I'm trying to get at, quite simply, is that I don't believe (any more) that dynamic range alone can tell the whole tale. I've heard too many things that have "no dynamic range" on my system and it doesn't sound as compressed and terrible as people make it out to. This is a new revelation for me, I used to have all kinds of issues listening to that music (though still enjoying it for what it was). Most frequent issue was never understand a single lyric unless I concentrated super hard (or listened on systems where most the frequency range was gimped like my laptop or sometimes my car). However, I have never heard it like I do today (and that's including on this very same gear in a different room).

For example, people complain a lot about the newest Adele album, 25 and it scores terribly on the dynamic range database. I have listened to it plenty of times, in fact I have just put the Tidal version on right now for this post...don't know what they are whining about. Doesn't sound pushed to 11 the whole time to me. Plus, there's a good sound-stage, I hear all the instruments, multiple vocal tracks laid down -- sure, there's bobble here and there, but it doesn't destroy it for me. "I Miss You" just started up and the drum beats in the beginning are rich and powerful, they sound pretty dynamic on my end, and some nice weight on the low-end. Sure, I think in parts they pushed some of their meters a bit over the edge and the artifacts make their way into the recording...that sucks, but this is atypical, IME. I'll try another modern pop artist.

The Weeknd, Starboy -- Tidal explicit CD version (not MQA). First track, Starboy...one of the worst dynamic ranges on the disc according to the DRDB. So...ok, this may not have "dynamics", but his voice is mixed incredibly well, there are still a lot of details in the song, incredible sound-stage; if this sounds bad on your gear you either don't like the genre or...well...I don't know. There's one point towards the end where the "Starboy" lyric repeats in the background and it feels like it is moving in 3d through my front soundstage. Second track up, "Party Monster" -- tons of dynamic content...the drums beats hit hard, lots of sampling, but if I close my eyes I can point to about a dozen different locations they all originate from, some louder (i.e., seem larger) than others. If this presentation keeps up, I don't really give a crap what some dynamic range rating says! To date, I've only listened to the singles off this album...I think I'll return to work and finish it up.
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post #72 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 12:56 AM
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F206 tweeter sounds brittle? Interesting. Don't tell me you are powering them with an AVR.
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post #73 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
F206 tweeter sounds brittle? Interesting. Don't tell me you are powering them with an AVR.

What’s the problem with an AVR?
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #74 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 03:36 AM
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What’s the problem with an AVR?
They aren't as expensive as audiophile equipment and don't give the placebo affect of magical, imaginary sound quality improvements.
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post #75 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 04:07 AM
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What’s the problem with an AVR?
Nothing mate! Most Japanese avrs have a tiny class D transformer and an inflated power rating. Unless your impedance is 8ohm constant and sensitivity is 92db+ the best is to go with amp that has a nice big toroidial transformer. It's not the rated watt but parts and engineering. Just try a good quality amp, you will hear the difference. Look at Naim, Roksan, Cambridge or Anthem's amp offerings.
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post #76 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
F206 tweeter sounds brittle? Interesting. Don't tell me you are powering them with an AVR.
Read a few posts after that. It was mostly due to the EQ that I thought was disengaged.
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post #77 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
Oh, I understand what you're saying -- I think what I'm trying to get at, quite simply, is that I don't believe (any more) that dynamic range alone can tell the whole tale. I've heard too many things that have "no dynamic range" on my system and it doesn't sound as compressed and terrible as people make it out to. This is a new revelation for me, I used to have all kinds of issues listening to that music (though still enjoying it for what it was). Most frequent issue was never understand a single lyric unless I concentrated super hard (or listened on systems where most the frequency range was gimped like my laptop or sometimes my car). However, I have never heard it like I do today (and that's including on this very same gear in a different room).

For example, people complain a lot about the newest Adele album, 25 and it scores terribly on the dynamic range database. I have listened to it plenty of times, in fact I have just put the Tidal version on right now for this post...don't know what they are whining about. Doesn't sound pushed to 11 the whole time to me. Plus, there's a good sound-stage, I hear all the instruments, multiple vocal tracks laid down -- sure, there's bobble here and there, but it doesn't destroy it for me. "I Miss You" just started up and the drum beats in the beginning are rich and powerful, they sound pretty dynamic on my end, and some nice weight on the low-end. Sure, I think in parts they pushed some of their meters a bit over the edge and the artifacts make their way into the recording...that sucks, but this is atypical, IME. I'll try another modern pop artist.

The Weeknd, Starboy -- Tidal explicit CD version (not MQA). First track, Starboy...one of the worst dynamic ranges on the disc according to the DRDB. So...ok, this may not have "dynamics", but his voice is mixed incredibly well, there are still a lot of details in the song, incredible sound-stage; if this sounds bad on your gear you either don't like the genre or...well...I don't know. There's one point towards the end where the "Starboy" lyric repeats in the background and it feels like it is moving in 3d through my front soundstage. Second track up, "Party Monster" -- tons of dynamic content...the drums beats hit hard, lots of sampling, but if I close my eyes I can point to about a dozen different locations they all originate from, some louder (i.e., seem larger) than others. If this presentation keeps up, I don't really give a crap what some dynamic range rating says! To date, I've only listened to the singles off this album...I think I'll return to work and finish it up.
DW, your earlier suggestion about starting a separate thread was a good one. This conversation is pretty far off topic. Apologies to the OP and thread participants for the noise.
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post #78 of 273 Old 02-12-2020, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
Quite a long post so I'll be parsing it for a while.

Meanwhile, perhaps a common understanding of what I'm saying is a good place to start. This isn't about content preferences. This is about production that values lossy content for space considerations and compressed dynamic range. Try running foobar2000's plugin for dynamic range analysis over some of your local content. What numbers are you seeing? At one time I downloaded a fair amount from a well regarded hi-rez source but gave it up because they just didn't sound very good. The plugin hinted at the issue that the DR Database explains.
Agreed. I'm finding the source/recording to be a better indicator of SQ than the speaker. Stevie Ray Vaughan's Texas Flood (from remastered greatest hits edition from Tidal) sounds better on Sonos than on the original Texas Flood Album on the Xeo 10 (Google Play Music). My CDs didn't have this variability. Gonna have to test out this Xeo 10 more before returning.
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Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
Nothing mate! Most Japanese avrs have a tiny class D transformer and an inflated power rating. Unless your impedance is 8ohm constant and sensitivity is 92db+ the best is to go with amp that has a nice big toroidial transformer. It's not the rated watt but parts and engineering. Just try a good quality amp, you will hear the difference. Look at Naim, Roksan, Cambridge or Anthem's amp offerings.
Could be. I don't think my Sony AVR is sending enough current to the speakers. Above a certain volume, they wake up like a step function and begin producing midbass.

If I ever set up an audiophile listening 2.1 system (not desktop), I'll like do a Peachtree amp and Ascend Sierra 2EX and nothing else.
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Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
Nothing mate! Most Japanese avrs have a tiny class D transformer and an inflated power rating. Unless your impedance is 8ohm constant and sensitivity is 92db+ the best is to go with amp that has a nice big toroidial transformer. It's not the rated watt but parts and engineering. Just try a good quality amp, you will hear the difference. Look at Naim, Roksan, Cambridge or Anthem's amp offerings.
Could be. I don't think my Sony AVR is sending enough current to the speakers. Above a certain volume, they wake up like a step function and begin producing midbass.

If I ever set up an audiophile listening 2.1 system (not desktop), I'll like do a Peachtree amp and Ascend Sierra 2EX and nothing else.
Odyssey Khartago or PS Audio Stellar again Cell are also great combo if you wanna keep it made in USA

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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Speaker positioning is everything, a point that a lot of people miss when rushing to get the latest electronic bells and whistles and assuming that Audyssey is going to fix all their troubles. But you don't really need any special stands...$10/pr yoga blocks will do, or angled foam pads like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Addicte...dp/B078PQ7TLD/
Thx, I'll look for foam pads like that. Since I'm so close to the speakers on my desktop, I do need them either angled up sharply or raised 10"

The Xeo 10 stands do look and fit nice, but at $299, I think are snake-oil
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Originally Posted by iamsabit313 View Post
Nothing mate! Most Japanese avrs have a tiny class D transformer and an inflated power rating. Unless your impedance is 8ohm constant and sensitivity is 92db+ the best is to go with amp that has a nice big toroidial transformer. It's not the rated watt but parts and engineering. Just try a good quality amp, you will hear the difference. Look at Naim, Roksan, Cambridge or Anthem's amp offerings.
that is a highly debated subject.. the thought(argument) that "your amp choice is inferior" immediately loses my interest.. even if it's true it still audiophile nonsense in that a person may or may not be able to afford improvement *or want*an improved amp,,,if a set of speakers needs said amp *it's an inherent weakness* in the speakers and that's part of the equation of choice .. there are plenty of easily driven audiophile speakers out there (ascend, salk , jbl to name some off the top of my head) revel does make some easily driven speakers (several have 8 ohm loads).. oh , the 2nd part of my thought.. the idea that one amp sounds *better * than another flies in the face of actual science .. amps deliver an electrical signal not sound.. and in an avg. sized room 2-5 watts is about as loud as most people ever get an amp to output.. ..

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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Could be. I don't think my Sony AVR is sending enough current to the speakers. Above a certain volume, they wake up like a step function and begin producing midbass.

If I ever set up an audiophile listening 2.1 system (not desktop), I'll like do a Peachtree amp and Ascend Sierra 2EX and nothing else.
the sierra's are built to do well with a budget avr.. you won't need to blow a buncha coin on a fancy amp..but, if you think you hear a difference that is the bottom line , the placebo effect is real..
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that is a highly debated subject.. the thought(argument) that "your amp choice is inferior" immediately loses my interest.. even if it's true it still audiophile nonsense in that a person may or may not be able to afford improvement *or want*an improved amp,,,if a set of speakers needs said amp *it's an inherent weakness* in the speakers and that's part of the equation of choice .. there are plenty of easily driven audiophile speakers out there (ascend, salk , jbl to name some off the top of my head) revel does make some easily driven speakers (several have 8 ohm loads).. oh , the 2nd part of my thought.. the idea that one amp sounds *better * than another flies in the of actual science .. amps deliver an electrical signal not sound.. and in an avg. sized room 2-5 watts is about as loud as most people ever get an amp to output.. ..
Good post.

The F206 is an 8 ohm, 88 dB sensitive speaker. I'm definitely not cranking it to ear-bleeding volumes either. I'm not sure how driving it with my AVR would be a problem.

Below are the specs of the Pioneer receiver:
Amplification Type: Class D3
› 180 W/ch (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven)
› 150 W/ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven FTC)
› 120 W/ch (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.08 %, 2 ch Driven FTC)
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
the sierra's are built to do well with a budget avr.. you won't need to blow a buncha coin on a fancy amp..but, if you think you hear a difference that is the bottom line , the placebo effect is real..
Ya, my Polk s15 are "rated" 8 ohm but I think its closer to 4 ohm most of the time. S&V found the same with the Polk LsiM.
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Originally Posted by goldark View Post
Good post.

The F206 is an 8 ohm, 88 dB sensitive speaker. I'm definitely not cranking it to ear-bleeding volumes either. I'm not sure how driving it with my AVR would be a problem.

Below are the specs of the Pioneer receiver:
Amplification Type: Class D3
› 180 W/ch (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven)
› 150 W/ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven FTC)
› 120 W/ch (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.08 %, 2 ch Driven FTC)
that's my point your amp is *fine*.. one caveat.. if you want to blow the windows outta your place there are better amps (ones that won't clip at as low a volume).. i'm not trying to offend the person who told you that a *better amp* is the answer .. that is an accepted audiophile myth, lots of people believe it..and once your hear a placebo effect you can't "unhear it" , even if it is a ghost..my only thought is "a guy just blew "big coin"on some nice speakers to try and another guy (probably with more funds , bigger hobby interest) comes along and says "you need to spend more".. i get a bit put off by that thought and tend to respond a bit aggressively (my bad , but i had a point to make)... i hope the respondent takes no offense , none was meant...
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
They aren't as expensive as audiophile equipment and don't give the placebo affect of magical, imaginary sound quality improvements.

I think audio should be a balance of stupid and smart.

Smart: pick Revel speakers for their great in room response

Stupid: Buy $10000 Mark Levinson Monoblocks because they look fantastic and may not have a huge improvement in SQ, but make me feel good about me and my system :P

I do love me a Halo Parasound amp though.

But my Onkyo AVR does just fine....

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Ya, my Polk s15 are "rated" 8 ohm but I think its closer to 4 ohm most of the time. S&V found the same with the Polk LsiM.
that does happen ... manufacturers sometime "adjust" numbers to suit their needs .. ascend doesn't and salk probably doesn't .. polk i am sure does.. but, sometimes pure impedance doesn't tell the whole story , a steady 4 ohm load can be easily driven where a load that has many changes but averages a higher impedance is not..
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I think audio should be a balance of stupid and smart.

Smart: pick Revel speakers for their great in room response

Stupid: Buy $10000 Mark Levinson Monoblocks because they look fantastic and may not have a huge improvement in SQ, but make me feel good about me and my system :P

I do love me a Halo Parasound amp though.

But my Onkyo AVR does just fine....
you are lucky , you are gonna enjoy good sound for a lifetime without getting suckered into spending a lot of money on that "last 5%" (imo,placebo improvement)..

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r Dennis Murphy modded emotiva b1's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... infinity alpha 20 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
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Listening impressions: Ascend Sierra 2-EX vs. Revel F206

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I think audio should be a balance of stupid and smart.

Smart: pick Revel speakers for their great in room response

Stupid: Buy $10000 Mark Levinson Monoblocks because they look fantastic and may not have a huge improvement in SQ, but make me feel good about me and my system :P

I do love me a Halo Parasound amp though.

But my Onkyo AVR does just fine....


Yeah I see that side of things as well. It’s certainly ok to spend money on some really nice, extremely well engineered products with exceptional build quality and warranty, especially if said item also has SOTA performance.

I imagine I’ll end up with a nice external amp for my LCR someday. But it will be something like a Nord 3 channel based on Hypex NC500 modules that deliver 400/700 watts with industry leading measured performance, and only costs around $1700.

For now, I have other objectives that are more important and I realize that my Denon X3300 provides all the clean power I need 99.8% of the time.

I know this is a bit of a tangent, but it’s related. Was participating in a thread where someone wanted to try a high end DAC to improve their sound quality. The DAC from their processor has been measured to proved a signal from the pre-outs of -95 dB or so total distortion plus noise. Their $15,000 pair of “audiophile” monoblocks have a 80 dB SNR. The relatively inexpensive processor has a signal that is already drastically cleaner than the amps used to drive the speakers. And even though the amps don’t measure all that well, they are still probably an order of magnitude or two cleaner than the speakers.

But some folks would hook up a $6000 DAC or some silly baloney that may or may not even measure better than what they have, even though the “audiophile” amps are the dirtiest part of the chain before the speakers. People will hear all kinds of magical differences though.


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