Listening impressions: Ascend Sierra 2-EX vs. Revel F206 - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 12:39 PM
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Amplifiers are NOT like cars. Going from a Camry to a Mercedes yields numerous, tangible improvements in a variety of areas related to driving or the ride that are easily noticeable each time you step in it or drive it.

This thread has gone off the rails, I liked the impressions portion better.
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post #182 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Amplifiers are NOT like cars. Going from a Camry to a Mercedes yields numerous, tangible improvements in a variety of areas related to driving or the ride that are easily noticeable each time you step in it or drive it.

This thread has gone off the rails, I liked the impressions portion better.
if you are referring to my post , i wasn't suggesting cars and amps are an equivalency .. i was referring to the idea(and i thought i explained it in detail..) the "you can't afford it so you don't get it " thoughts passed on by the person i quoted ... edit : anything above safe transportation is all ego driven when it comes to cars...take a look at any car ad.. it's pretty much 100% an ego massage above basic vehicles .. it's all good

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post #183 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Amplifiers are NOT like cars. Going from a Camry to a Mercedes yields numerous, tangible improvements in a variety of areas related to driving or the ride that are easily noticeable each time you step in it or drive it.

This thread has gone off the rails, I liked the impressions portion better.
Once again. The Camry owner can step in and drive while the Mercedes driver waits in the customer lounge for repairs to be completed on the Mercedes.
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post #184 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 04:34 PM
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swap in Lexus for german cars
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post #185 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:11 PM
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if you are referring to my post , i wasn't suggesting cars and amps are an equivalency .. i was referring to the idea(and i thought i explained it in detail..) the "you can't afford it so you don't get it " thoughts passed on by the person i quoted .. anything else i can explain?.. edit : anything above safe transportation is all ego driven when it comes to cars...take a look at any car ad.. it's pretty much 100% an ego massage above basic vehicles .. it's all good
Agreed. The ego massage is very important to happiness like the placebo effect. I'm not buying speakers to make the manufacturer happy because the manufacturer achieved great measurements. I'm buying speakers or cars to make myself happy. Hence, the placebo effect is an extremely important component to me if it makes me happy. A great measuring speaker that doesn't make me happy will be returned. It's why I sometimes choose prestigious brands, for the placebo effect, or drink more expensive wines. I can taste they're better after learning the price. What I mean is the placebo effect brings a measure of real neural happiness signals to the brain. The signals are not fake. In fact audiophile stereo sound is fake. Two discrete sources of sound trick the brain into thinking a band is spread out horizontally in front with a depth too. But even though it's not true, there's no band, just MDF boxes with speakers inside, it makes us happy.
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post #186 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:16 PM
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My Camry has actually been in the shop more than my Mercedes. 2 to 0
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post #187 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Amplifiers are NOT like cars. Going from a Camry to a Mercedes yields numerous, tangible improvements in a variety of areas related to driving or the ride that are easily noticeable each time you step in it or drive it.

This thread has gone off the rails, I liked the impressions portion better.
The problem is regardless of what speaker isn't preferred in the listening impressions, there is always going to be someone who comes along and says something along the lines of "Well so and so speaker really doesn't come alive until you feed it a Kilowatt of power"...and this is how many threads start arguing over receivers and amplifiers sounding the same or different.
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post #188 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
The problem is regardless of what speaker isn't preferred in the listening impressions, there is always going to be someone who comes along and says something along the lines of "Well so and so speaker really doesn't come alive until you feed it a Kilowatt of power"...and this is how many threads start arguing over receivers and amplifiers sounding the same or different.
This is literally true for my Polk s15. Sucks at current below a certain level, then suddenly comes alive. The biamped active speakers I tried don't have this issue
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post #189 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:27 PM
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level matching is retarded imo, speakers are designed different. play them in their sweet spot.
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post #190 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Agreed. The ego massage is very important to happiness like the placebo effect. I'm not buying speakers to make the manufacturer happy because the manufacturer achieved great measurements. I'm buying speakers or cars to make myself happy. Hence, the placebo effect is an extremely important component to me if it makes me happy. A great measuring speaker that doesn't make me happy will be returned. It's why I sometimes choose prestigious brands, for the placebo effect, or drink more expensive wines. I can taste they're better after learning the price. What I mean is the placebo effect brings a measure of real neural happiness signals to the brain. The signals are not fake. In fact audiophile stereo sound is fake. Two discrete sources of sound trick the brain into thinking a band is spread out horizontally in front with a depth too. But even though it's not true, there's no band, just MDF boxes with speakers inside, it makes us happy.
i agree that happiness is achieved through multiple factors.. and i have no issue with indulgence .. it all goes back to the thought that money somehow enlightens one and makes them smarter.. coming from a guy (me) that's seen both sides of the track , it isn't even remotely true.. some of the most clueless people i know have big bucks..edit: to be equally fair , i will admit i know a buncha low income idiots as well myself included ..
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post #191 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
This is literally true for my Polk s15. Sucks at current below a certain level, then suddenly comes alive. The biamped active speakers I tried don't have this issue
This is usually due to the equal loudness countour, with a smaller speaker like the S15 it won't have a ton of bass so at lower levels at might sound thin but at louder levels it sounds more balanced and "comes alive". Loud levels for most typically only use a few watts of power at most though.
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post #192 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
This is usually due to the equal loudness countour, with a smaller speaker like the S15 it won't have a ton of bass so at lower levels at might sound thin but at louder levels it sounds more balanced and "comes alive". Loud levels for most typically only use a few watts of power at most though.
Exactly, active biamped speakers (BT speakers, Sonos, Xeo 10) don't have this issue.
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post #193 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
i agree that happiness is achieved through multiple factors.. and i have no issue with indulgence .. it all goes back to the thought that money somehow enlightens one and makes them smarter.. coming from a guy (me) that's seen both sides of the track , it isn't even remotely true.. some of the most clueless people i know have big bucks..
Can we at least agree that material wealth and possessions are the only route to happiness?
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post #194 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
This is literally true for my Polk s15. Sucks at current below a certain level, then suddenly comes alive.
My guess is it's not really an issue with S15 per se. I'd expect you'll notice similar issues with any other speakers connected to your current receiver. Find a receiver that does a better job of loudness control at lower volume levels.
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post #195 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Can we at least agree that material wealth and possessions are the only route to happiness?
.. you're killin' me... i thought i was the witty one ... being semi serious , i think in my case the reverse might be truer
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Originally Posted by Vikram Iyengar View Post
Exactly, active biamped speakers (BT speakers, Sonos, Xeo 10) don't have this issue.
Sure they do. Every speaker's perceived response is affected by volume to some degree or another. Active speakers don't modify their frequency response based on the amount of power put out by the amp.
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I need to update my impressions as I discovered "Direct Mode" on my receiver still somehow had MCACC room EQ engaged. I switched to "Pure Direct" and that disengaged all room EQ entirely. I was looking at the EQ settings and for some reason MCACC was adding like a 7.5 dB boost at around 7 kHz - which contributed to the harshness on the Revels.

After listening again, this was indeed the case. The Revel's treble became less harsh and more smooth, but at the expense of some perceived detail on the F206. The differences between tweeters somehow became even more pronounced - the RAAL's clarity, and openness was rather stark in comparison. With the EQ disengaged, the overall neutral tonality is similar in both and a lot of recordings sounded similar but for better recorded acoustic tracks, the Sierra 2-EX just comes out as the higher fidelity speaker.
Any updates on your speakers? If you end up making a new thread please let me know since this thread went off the deep end with AVR talk
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post #198 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 06:10 PM
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Active speakers don't modify their frequency response based on the amount of power put out by the amp.
Actually, some do. They have a built-in dynamic EQ curve, so to speak.
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post #199 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 07:17 PM
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Sure they do. Every speaker's perceived response is affected by volume to some degree or another. Active speakers don't modify their frequency response based on the amount of power put out by the amp.
Active speakers like Sonos modify their frequency response based on the volume to sound pleasing at different volumes.
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post #200 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 07:18 PM
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Actually, some do. They have a built-in dynamic EQ curve, so to speak.
Correct, they use DSP and active crossovers to channel different current to woofer/tweeter.
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post #201 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 07:40 PM
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Actually, some do. They have a built-in dynamic EQ curve, so to speak.
Didn't realize that. But that's not common in all of them, is it? It's a special feature???
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post #202 of 326 Old 02-13-2020, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Any updates on your speakers? If you end up making a new thread please let me know since this thread went off the deep end with AVR talk
I moved the S2-EX back to the main room so I haven't been able to do an AB comparison, but I believe my last post is still accurate as far as listening impressions go. I'd love to be able to compare the Revel Be series to the S2-EX as I believe maybe the beryllium tweeter can compete with the RAAL. I also have the Salk WOW1 being built by Jim at the moment, so I'll be able to compare them to my current speakers as well.

I will say, as it relates to the rest of the discussion on this thread, that I've become more and more of an objectivist. I believe good measurements should be the foundation of any speaker search and the rest should be listening to them.
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post #203 of 326 Old 02-14-2020, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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A quick photo of the 2 speakers side by side. Both finishes (satin espresso and glossy walnut) are beautiful. Still rocking an old school Panasonic S60 plasma.
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post #204 of 326 Old 02-14-2020, 12:35 PM
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level matching is retarded imo, speakers are designed different. play them in their sweet spot.
While I don't necessarily agree with how you worded it, I think there is definitely something to be said for the idea. IMO, some speakers sound better at lower volumes, while others are at their best when turned up. I don't think that level matching itself is bad idea, but I think it would be better to match at various levels, rather than a single point. That's likely more work than I'd ever do, but I'd certainly be interested to hear about it from someone much more diligent than myself.
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post #205 of 326 Old 02-14-2020, 12:37 PM
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While I don't necessarily agree with how you worded it, I think there is definitely something to be said for the idea. IMO, some speakers sound better at lower volumes, while others are at their best when turned up. I don't think that level matching itself is bad idea, but I think it would be better to match at various levels, rather than a single point. That's likely more work than I'd ever do, but I'd certainly be interested to hear about it from someone much more diligent than myself.
To add to what you said, what do you level match? 1Khz tone? 100hz tone? Pink noise? Any choice may privilege one speaker over the other. So your point about listening at various matches makes sense to me.
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A quick photo of the 2 speakers side by side. Both finishes (satin espresso and glossy walnut) are beautiful. Still rocking an old school Panasonic S60 plasma.
I have the Panny ST60 and when it dies I'm in luck that there's a shop 3 miles from me that will replace it.

As to material wealth and happiness I have been fortunate enough as an evil capitalist to now start giving wealth away.

Been doing it for years with my tenants, just now gave a motorcycle to a friend and will be driving my wife's 2007 TSX 6 speed manual to Miami to give to my brother next month.

3200 miles; thank goodness it has a great stock sound system.

Have never sold a piece of stereo or A/V gear.

Always gave them away to friends and family.

And one AVS member I don't even know.

Giving is a wonderful thing to be able to do.

Still not interested in moving beyond my crumby $1850 front three in my main system though!

Geoff A. J., California
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post #207 of 326 Old 02-14-2020, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I have the Panny ST60 and when it dies I'm in luck that there's a shop 3 miles from me that will replace it.

As to material wealth and happiness I have been fortunate enough as an evil capitalist to now start giving wealth away.

Been doing it for years with my tenants, just now gave a motorcycle to a friend and will be driving my wife's 2007 TSX 6 speed manual to Miami to give to my brother next month.

3200 miles; thank goodness it has a great stock sound system.

Have never sold a piece of stereo or A/V gear.

Always gave them away to friends and family.

And one AVS member I don't even know.

Giving is a wonderful thing to be able to do.

Still not interested in moving beyond my crumby $1850 front three in my main system though!
Not surprised you never sold your gear. Who would buy that 50 yr old bargain basement stuff?
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post #208 of 326 Old 02-15-2020, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I have the Panny ST60 and when it dies I'm in luck that there's a shop 3 miles from me that will replace it.

As to material wealth and happiness I have been fortunate enough as an evil capitalist to now start giving wealth away.

Been doing it for years with my tenants, just now gave a motorcycle to a friend and will be driving my wife's 2007 TSX 6 speed manual to Miami to give to my brother next month.

3200 miles; thank goodness it has a great stock sound system.

Have never sold a piece of stereo or A/V gear.

Always gave them away to friends and family.

And one AVS member I don't even know.

Giving is a wonderful thing to be able to do.

Still not interested in moving beyond my crumby $1850 front three in my main system though!
imo, you figured it out .. happiness "trumps " greed and fame
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Still not interested in moving beyond my crumby $1850 front three in my main system though!
G,

What do you have for a front stage??
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post #210 of 326 Old 02-15-2020, 09:59 AM
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G,

What do you have for a front stage??
Usher V602 towers and V603 center.

Sadly the replacement "affordable" Usher tower is, impossible to audition, (I was able to audition floor samples at home, store since closed), poor return policies from those that sell them and the lack of a matching center.

So I never recommend them for those reasons.
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