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qazwsx16 02-06-2020 12:56 PM

Budget Home Theater (5.1.2) - Missing Center/Subwoofer
 
Hi everyone!

I am completely new to home theater set-ups, but more recently wanted to start getting into it more to really enjoy the movies that we own.
  • Goal: Create a decent HT on a budget. Going for 5.1.2
  • Use: Movies (we very rarely listen to music)
  • Will you be adding a subwoofer? Yes
  • Are you building a surround sound system? Yes, 5.1.2
  • How loud do you want to play? Nothing extreme, enough to enjoy movies at normal volume levels (let me know if this isn't descriptive enough.
  • How far will you be sitting from the speakers? Approximately 8-10 feet. I'll have to measure my ceilings, but they are about 10 feet up.
  • Speaker Experience: Very limited! My main experience is from what I've researched online/reviews and the soundbar that I own.
  • Price: Trying to keep the remaining purchases (center/subwoofer) below ~$250. Completely open to used/refurbished equipment!

I've been in the process of piecing together equipment over the past few months. What I currently own:
  • TV: LG C8 OLED
  • Receiver: Onkyo TX NR737
  • Subwoofer: Missing
  • Center: Missing
  • L/R (includes Atmos): Pioneer Elite SP-EBS73-LR
  • Rears: These are in-ceiling that came with the house we bought. Developers have no idea. I'm having a hard time taking the grills off, so I don't know the brand/model yet. If anyone has any suggestions on how to remove these, let me know!

A deal came up on NewEgg (should still be available) for the SP-EBS73, so I had bought them yesterday. I am still missing the subwoofer and center channel, so I was hoping to get some advice from you guys. My two limitations are cost and size. In addition to the spouse factor, I also have limited space for the center channel. Originally, I wanted to get the Pioneer Elite SP-EC73 to get a matching speaker, but unfortunately our mantel is a bit too small. The depth of the mantel is 7.5 inches and the TV is about 4.25 inches above it. This doesn't allow most acceptable speakers to fit underneath :(. I know this speaker doesn't get too high recommendations, but I have been considering getting the Polk S35. It would fit almost perfectly underneath. I've read that it is clear but tonally flaccid voice clarity (quoting Zorba922 :)), but we've literally never listened to any decent speakers before in our lives, so we may not be able to notice.

One suggestion I did consider was remounting the TV a few inches higher so there would be more space, but putting it up the first time was pretty stressful for my wife (since we wanted to be extremely careful with the thin OLED), so I don't really pursue that route.

Besides the Polk S35, do you have any suggestions for a center channel that would fit within the following dimensions?
  • Width: Any
  • Height: <4.25 inches
  • Depth: <7.5 inches

I don't really have any constraints when it comes to the subwoofer besides overall cost, so up for any suggestions!

We absolutely love movies and getting our new TV literally changed how much we appreciate visuals. I really wanted to explore the audio side more since we've been using a relatively cheap soundbar/subwoofer for the past 3 years. This is our first crack at a home theater system, so absolutely any suggestions would be highly appreciated! Please let me know if I can clarify anything!

Thank you!
~Q

sigpig 02-06-2020 01:10 PM

The best solution is to mount the TV on a different wall than the fireplace.

Zorba922 02-06-2020 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59209142)
I don't really have any constraints when it comes to the subwoofer besides overall cost, so up for any suggestions!


Try running just the L/R speakers without a center first. If you're ok with it, I'd skip having a physical center and get the PL200 if $250 range is your max.

If you can go up to $500 for an SVS PB12 (Amazon) that would be worth every penny unless you seldom watch action/thriller movies.

qazwsx16 02-06-2020 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigpig (Post 59209210)
The best solution is to mount the TV on a different wall than the fireplace.

In hindsight, I completely agree! Our living room in our current house is slightly awkwardly formatted, so I won't be able to do it here. But maybe in 10ish years when we get a new house with a dedicated theater room :)

Once again, completely new to this, but I was looking over the budget subs from this thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...-300-less.html) and saw the PSW 111 listed on there. Is it any good? I have someone nearby me selling it for $80.

qazwsx16 02-06-2020 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59209374)
Try running just the L/R speakers without a center first. If you're ok with it, I'd skip having a physical center and get the PL200 if $250 range is your max.

If you can go up to $500 for an SVS PB12 (Amazon) that would be worth every penny unless you seldom watch action/thriller movies.

Oh! I didn't know that would be fine to do (I'm assuming this is the phantom center I've been reading about). I will absolutely check both of those out! The L/R should be coming in a few days so I will get back to you guys!

EDIT: This may be a dumb question, but when setting this up on my receiver, do I just leave the center channel part empty?

~Q

qazwsx16 02-06-2020 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59209374)
Try running just the L/R speakers without a center first. If you're ok with it, I'd skip having a physical center and get the PL200 if $250 range is your max.

If you can go up to $500 for an SVS PB12 (Amazon) that would be worth every penny unless you seldom watch action/thriller movies.

What's your opinion on the SVS PB-1000? I have someone who might be willing to go down to $250 on it and willing to include a SubDude Isolation Platform (I don't know if it is actually necessary, but little bonus).

Dargent0628 02-06-2020 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59210032)
What's your opinion on the SVS PB-1000? I have someone who might be willing to go down to $250 on it and willing to include a SubDude Isolation Platform (I don't know if it is actually necessary, but little bonus).

Grab it immediately.

Zorba922 02-06-2020 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59210032)
What's your opinion on the SVS PB-1000? I have someone who might be willing to go down to $250 on it and willing to include a SubDude Isolation Platform (I don't know if it is actually necessary, but little bonus).

That's a decent deal if the sub hasn't been abused and is still in good condition, and if the warranty is transferable to you.

The PB1000 is SVS's entry level sub. The $500 PB12 is 95% equivalent to their next step up model, the PB2000 which was $700 (now discontinued).

Some people swear by the Sub Dude, some find it makes no difference.

qazwsx16 02-06-2020 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargent0628 (Post 59210066)
Grab it immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59210074)
That's a decent deal if the sub hasn't been abused and is still in good condition, and if the warranty is transferable to you.

The PB1000 is SVS's entry level sub. The $500 PB12 is 95% equivalent to their next step up model, the PB2000 which was $700 (now discontinued).

Some people swear by the Sub Dude, some find it makes no difference.



So it looks like I'm behind one other person who was interested. Crossing my fingers the purchase doesn't go through!

qazwsx16 02-11-2020 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59210074)
That's a decent deal if the sub hasn't been abused and is still in good condition, and if the warranty is transferable to you.

The PB1000 is SVS's entry level sub. The $500 PB12 is 95% equivalent to their next step up model, the PB2000 which was $700 (now discontinued).

Some people swear by the Sub Dude, some find it makes no difference.

So unfortunately the seller ended selling it to the first buyer... There is another deal for two PB-1000 with minor blemishes for $664.99. Anyway I could sell one of them for $400? Just so I could get close to the $250 area I'm looking for?

*EDIT* Nevermind, I didn't take tax into consideration, it's about $720. Which is well out of my price range.

Zorba922 02-11-2020 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59231016)
So unfortunately the seller ended selling it to the first buyer... There is another deal for two PB-1000 with minor blemishes for $664.99. Anyway I could sell one of them for $400? Just so I could get close to the $250 area I'm looking for?

Maybe, assuming the sub blemishes don't reflect generally careless care/abuse by the previous owner.

personally I'd just go with a new PB12, the extra $250 is worth it for the peace of mind and skipping the hassle of reselling the second PB1000.

qazwsx16 02-11-2020 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59231040)
Maybe, assuming the sub blemishes don't reflect generally careless care/abuse by the previous owner.

personally I'd just go with a new PB12, the extra $250 is worth it for the peace of mind and skipping the hassle of reselling the second PB1000.

Thank you again Zorba! Everytime I search for a subwoofer, I keep getting sucked into some of the higher models and slowly forget about the price.

cocrh 02-11-2020 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59231040)
Maybe, assuming the sub blemishes don't reflect generally careless care/abuse by the previous owner.

personally I'd just go with a new PB12, the extra $250 is worth it for the peace of mind and skipping the hassle of reselling the second PB1000.

SVS is having an outlet sale. PB1000's for 349 and PB12NSD's for 449.
https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/price_under-$500

Zorba922 02-11-2020 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocrh (Post 59231082)
SVS is having an outlet sale. PB1000's for 349 and PB12NSD's for 449.
https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/price_under-$500

@qazwsx16
wow, I'd jump on the $450 PB12 allegedly "blemished"---buying direct from SVS gives you a lot of excellent SVS benefits.

qazwsx16 02-12-2020 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59231124)
@qazwsx16
wow, I'd jump on the $450 PB12 allegedly "blemished"---buying direct from SVS gives you a lot of excellent SVS benefits.

I really wish I could afford it at this time, but it's definitely outside of our price range. We're currently paying off our house, so once that's done, I should be able to grab a better sub. Thank you for looking out!

There are two options I'm keeping my eye on:
Bic Acoustech PL-200 (original): Someone is willing to sell it for $100, it does look like it has minor scuffs, but I'm going to try and check it out soon to be sure it works.
Bic Acoustech PL-200 ii: I'm in a bidding war with someone right now. My bid is $167, and the buy price is $195. Think it's worth it? I'll only have 3 days to test it once it arrives (if I win), so I'm going to need to buy all the other wiring to be sure it all works. I might create a separate thread to help me figure out exactly what I need.

cocrh 02-12-2020 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59236432)
I really wish I could afford it at this time, but it's definitely outside of our price range. We're currently paying off our house, so once that's done, I should be able to grab a better sub. Thank you for looking out!

There are two options I'm keeping my eye on:
Bic Acoustech PL-200 (original): Someone is willing to sell it for $100, it does look like it has minor scuffs, but I'm going to try and check it out soon to be sure it works.
Bic Acoustech PL-200 ii: I'm in a bidding war with someone right now. My bid is $167, and the buy price is $195. Think it's worth it? I'll only have 3 days to test it once it arrives (if I win), so I'm going to need to buy all the other wiring to be sure it all works. I might create a separate thread to help me figure out exactly what I need.

If you don't mind refurbished with great warr and return policy. This Infinity at $199.00 would be a bit better than the BIC's.

https://www.harmanaudio.com/infinity...SABEgJD6fD_BwE

Elihawk 02-12-2020 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59231066)
Thank you again Zorba! Everytime I search for a subwoofer, I keep getting sucked into some of the higher models and slowly forget about the price.

WELCOME to the club! This hobby is NOT wallet friendly...

qazwsx16 02-12-2020 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocrh (Post 59236482)
If you don't mind refurbished with great warr and return policy. This Infinity at $199.00 would be a bit better than the BIC's.

https://www.harmanaudio.com/infinity...SABEgJD6fD_BwE

I don't mind refurbished at all! I actually kind of prefer it just because it is usually a little more affordable. I'm still learning about subs, so out of curiosity, is there a reason why it's better? Oh wow, it was actually $144 brand new back in December!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elihawk (Post 59236490)
WELCOME to the club! This hobby is NOT wallet friendly...

You're telling me! I actually stayed up just pondering if I could justify a $500 sub purchase. It wasn't until after I woke up and was reminded I had a mortgage that answered my question :rolleyes:

Zorba922 02-12-2020 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59236432)
I really wish I could afford it at this time, but it's definitely outside of our price range. We're currently paying off our house, so once that's done, I should be able to grab a better sub. Thank you for looking out!

There are two options I'm keeping my eye on:
Bic Acoustech PL-200 (original): Someone is willing to sell it for $100, it does look like it has minor scuffs, but I'm going to try and check it out soon to be sure it works.
Bic Acoustech PL-200 ii: I'm in a bidding war with someone right now. My bid is $167, and the buy price is $195. Think it's worth it? I'll only have 3 days to test it once it arrives (if I win), so I'm going to need to buy all the other wiring to be sure it all works. I might create a separate thread to help me figure out exactly what I need.

Normally I would suggest getting less expensive bookshelf speakers (like the $97 NHT SuperOnes from Amazon) for your L/R which you can move to surround duty in the future...but in your case you've already ordered those Pioneers from Newegg so it's too late.

The only other option which MIGHT enable you to spend the extra money for the PB12 would be to skip the center for now, to make up for the extra cost of the PB12 vs a PL200...that way, you won't find yourself reselling the PL200 in the future and buying another/better sub which might actually end up costing you more money in the end than getting the PB12 now.

However, your personal usage also comes into the decision: if your taste in movies/TV runs more towards dramas/comedies/news/sports/documentaries instead of big budget action/thriller flicks then you might be better off getting a good center speaker and having no sub or a lower grade sub.

Elihawk 02-12-2020 02:39 PM

Well, for me, I won't buy a sub for less than 500 dollars, if new...I found out the hard way that buying cheap subs is just a waste of money and decent subwoofers start at 500 dollars, IMHO!

Zorba922 02-12-2020 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elihawk (Post 59236876)
Well, for me, I won't buy a sub for less than 500 dollars, if new...I found out the hard way that buying cheap subs is just a waste of money and decent subwoofers start at 500 dollars, IMHO!

Same here.

My first was a JBL E150, $150 shipped off eBay back in 2003, with a claimed MSRP of $350. It was completely useless.

The second was a Mirage S12, $400, which was ok but nothing to write home about.

The third, which I'm keeping, is an RBH I-12 which was pseudo-Bstock for $400 (regular price was $500 or $600, can't remember).

All in all, ended up blowing $950 when I could have just started with a $500-600 decent sub from the get go.

Story of my life, lol: Coulda woulda shoulda... :)

qazwsx16 02-12-2020 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elihawk (Post 59236876)
Well, for me, I won't buy a sub for less than 500 dollars, if new...I found out the hard way that buying cheap subs is just a waste of money and decent subwoofers start at 500 dollars, IMHO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59238020)
Same here.

My first was a JBL E150, $150 shipped off eBay back in 2003, with a claimed MSRP of $350. It was completely useless.

The second was a Mirage S12, $400, which was ok but nothing to write home about.

The third, which I'm keeping, is an RBH I-12 which was pseudo-Bstock for $400 (regular price was $500 or $600, can't remember).

All in all, ended up blowing $950 when I could have just started with a $500-600 decent sub from the get go.

Story of my life, lol: Coulda woulda shoulda... :)

I'm still in the coulda woulda shoulda stage! Haha. Although I want to purchase it now, it will give me something to look forward down the road :)

What would the two of you say between the Bic PL200 ii and Infinity SUB R12? It looks like I can get the Bic PL200 $195 (after tax) and the Infinity SUB R12 for $215 (after tax). I'm going to see if Harman would be willing to drop the price as well. I know the MSRP for the Infinity SUB R12 is $500, would this fall under your categories of a good sub or is that just an inflated price?

In terms of Movies/TV shows we watch a pretty wide variety, but just in general love watching films. Everything from classics to some box office hits (sorry for the vague answer).

capo4u 02-12-2020 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59238132)
I'm still in the coulda woulda shoulda stage! Haha. Although I want to purchase it now, it will give me something to look forward down the road :)

What would the two of you say between the Bic PL200 ii and Infinity SUB R12? It looks like I can get the Bic PL200 $195 (after tax) and the Infinity SUB R12 for $215 (after tax). I'm going to see if Harman would be willing to drop the price as well. I know the MSRP for the Infinity SUB R12 is $500, would this fall under your categories of a good sub or is that just an inflated price?

In terms of Movies/TV shows we watch a pretty wide variety, but just in general love watching films. Everything from classics to some box office hits (sorry for the vague answer).

If you're into box office hits, then you'll probably be better served by holding on to that $195-215 and combining it with additional funds later to get a better sub than your current options. The subs you can get for $500+ are significantly better than the subs that are within your budget today.

Zorba922 02-12-2020 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59238132)
I'm still in the coulda woulda shoulda stage! Haha. Although I want to purchase it now, it will give me something to look forward down the road :)

What would the two of you say between the Bic PL200 ii and Infinity SUB R12? It looks like I can get the Bic PL200 $195 (after tax) and the Infinity SUB R12 for $215 (after tax). I'm going to see if Harman would be willing to drop the price as well. I know the MSRP for the Infinity SUB R12 is $500, would this fall under your categories of a good sub or is that just an inflated price?

In terms of Movies/TV shows we watch a pretty wide variety, but just in general love watching films. Everything from classics to some box office hits (sorry for the vague answer).

Harman does give you free return shipping, so why not give the R12 a go?

It doesn't sound like you're a huge fan of action flicks, so you might be ok with an R12, maybe add a second later on if you want more headroom.

qazwsx16 02-13-2020 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocrh (Post 59236482)
If you don't mind refurbished with great warr and return policy. This Infinity at $199.00 would be a bit better than the BIC's.

https://www.harmanaudio.com/infinity...SABEgJD6fD_BwE

Quote:

Originally Posted by capo4u (Post 59238342)
If you're into box office hits, then you'll probably be better served by holding on to that $195-215 and combining it with additional funds later to get a better sub than your current options. The subs you can get for $500+ are significantly better than the subs that are within your budget today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59238366)
Harman does give you free return shipping, so why not give the R12 a go?

It doesn't sound like you're a huge fan of action flicks, so you might be ok with an R12, maybe add a second later on if you want more headroom.

I know this is older, but I have someone who is willing to sell me a used SVS 20-39PC Plus (fully working, just a little dusty) for $175. They were the sole owner.

Reviews are a bit old, but everything I've been reading looks great. My only concern was the age of the sub. Do you think I should pursue it?

*EDIT* I got off the chat with SVS and it looks like its so old they no longer have the documentation/manuals for it. :eek:

Zorba922 02-13-2020 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59240620)
I know this is older, but I have someone who is willing to sell me a used SVS 20-39PC Plus (fully working, just a little dusty) for $175. They were the sole owner.

Reviews are a bit old, but everything I've been reading looks great. My only concern was the age of the sub. Do you think I should pursue it?

*EDIT* I got off the chat with SVS and it looks like its so old they no longer have the documentation/manuals for it. :eek:

As long as the sole owner was not a frat boy who blasted the sub on a regular basis, yeah I'd gladly take that over your other $200 options. Just make sure you test it thoroughly before buying. And see if he can come down to $150 or less. It is a +15 year old sub after all, and amps don't last forever...but there might be a way to replace just the amp if it goes out on you.

SVS phone support can be spotty. There are honest folks, and there are folks who might be angling to get a sale out of you. I spoke to one guy back in November about getting an SB12 ($400) for my space and he tried to talk me into going with "either dual SB2000 ($700ea.) or an SB4000 ($1500)." :rolleyes:

About documentation, Google is your friend. ;)
https://www.manualslib.com/products/...ci-377938.html

Piker84 02-13-2020 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elihawk (Post 59236876)
Well, for me, I won't buy a sub for less than 500 dollars, if new...I found out the hard way that buying cheap subs is just a waste of money and decent subwoofers start at 500 dollars, IMHO!

I agree, for retail pricing I wouldn't look at anything under $500. If you can find a bargain though you can sometimes get lucky and discover a great deal. I found a new SVS SB-2000 back in November for a crazy price. Talked them down even more and walked out with it for $400. That's almost half of MSRP. It replaced the entry level Polk I had gotten for a cheap 2.1 setup in our living room. I won't buy a Polk sub again as they don't have any good subwoofers out. Only cheap stuff.

Have you checked FaceBook Marketplace or other online resale options for deals on used subs near you? I see some good ones every now and then.

qazwsx16 02-13-2020 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba922 (Post 59240896)
As long as the sole owner was not a frat boy who blasted the sub on a regular basis, yeah I'd gladly take that over your other $200 options. Just make sure you test it thoroughly before buying. And see if he can come down to $150 or less. It is a +15 year old sub after all, and amps don't last forever...but there might be a way to replace just the amp if it goes out on you.

SVS phone support can be spotty. There are honest folks, and there are folks who might be angling to get a sale out of you. I spoke to one guy back in November about getting an SB12 ($400) for my space and he tried to talk me into going with "either dual SB2000 ($700ea.) or an SB4000 ($1500)." :rolleyes:

About documentation, Google is your friend. ;)
https://www.manualslib.com/products/...ci-377938.html

Did some background digging, and it looks like he's in his mid-50s, so hopefully I should be in the clear! Out of curiosity, how much does replacing an amp or driver normally cost? I'm expecting I might have to do a repair eventually.

Thank you for the manual! We'll be meeting up in a few days, so I'll keep everyone posted! Now I have to justify the suede outside appearance to my wife...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Piker84 (Post 59240924)
I agree, for retail pricing I wouldn't look at anything under $500. If you can find a bargain though you can sometimes get lucky and discover a great deal. I found a new SVS SB-2000 back in November for a crazy price. Talked them down even more and walked out with it for $400. That's almost half of MSRP. It replaced the entry level Polk I had gotten for a cheap 2.1 setup in our living room. I won't buy a Polk sub again as they don't have any good subwoofers out. Only cheap stuff.

Have you checked FaceBook Marketplace or other online resale options for deals on used subs near you? I see some good ones every now and then.

I've been looking over them whenever I get the chance. I live in a relatively small city, so I usually need to drive or a larger metro area to pick up items. By the time my schedule opens up, they usually already sell it!

Piker84 02-13-2020 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59240990)
I've been looking over them whenever I get the chance. I live in a relatively small city, so I usually need to drive or a larger metro area to pick up items. By the time my schedule opens up, they usually already sell it!

I understand how you feel about that. When I look for things and find something I like I tend to skip inquiring about it if it's more than a 30 minutes drive from me... unless it's a really good deal. Then I try to make it worth my while. A lot of people will meet half way if asked. That also depends on how much they're getting in the sale.

Let us know what you end up with. That old SVS cylinder sub would scare me due to the age of it. I'd be constantly fearing the amp was about to go out on it. Yet it's a heck of a deal if you can talk them down to around $150.

Zorba922 02-13-2020 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qazwsx16 (Post 59240990)
Did some background digging, and it looks like he's in his mid-50s, so hopefully I should be in the clear! Out of curiosity, how much does replacing an amp or driver normally cost? I'm expecting I might have to do a repair eventually.

I've read of folks paying $150-200 for a new amp for their older Hsu subs, I'd expect SVS to be in that ballpark. You should ask in the Subwoofers forum, somebody there would probably know.


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