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post #31 of 62 Old 02-12-2020, 06:12 PM
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Is white an option?

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post #32 of 62 Old 02-12-2020, 07:09 PM
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Canton also has some nice on walls like these.

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post #33 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone happen to know what the Ascend CBM-170 SE Center is? It apparently has its own part number but I can't find anything on it. Is this exactly the same as a CBM-170 SE?


Thanks.


EDIT: Also, I think I am making progress on eliminating some options. Since my center channel speaker has direct line of sight with all my seating positions, I plan on leaving it in the cabinet. Due to this, I am assuming I should focus on sealed enclosures for the center speaker, correct? If so, this has me probably eliminating HSU, & Ascend as their centers are all ported. I think that leaves me with Emotiva, NHT, SVS and maybe one other still in the running.

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post #34 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Does anyone happen to know what the Ascend CBM-170 SE Center is? It apparently has its own part number but I can't find anything on it. Is this exactly the same as a CBM-170 SE?


Thanks.
I can't see a link for the CBM-170 center? Did you mean the CMT-340 SE? The difference in that is they rotate the tweeter 90 degrees as well as the binding posts.

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post #35 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
I can't see a link for the CBM-170 center? Did you mean the CMT-340 SE? The difference in that is they rotate the tweeter 90 degrees as well as the binding posts.

I have only seen the CBM-170 Center referenced here: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merch...ry_Code=BSTOCK


What is "B stock" anyway? Are these just returned items?
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post #36 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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RSL is the other one I am still looking at since it is front ported. The response stopping at 85Hz has me a bit scared with these. I feel like these are probably tuned to match up only with the RSL speedwoofer.
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post #37 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
I have only seen the CBM-170 Center referenced here: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merch...ry_Code=BSTOCK


What is "B stock" anyway? Are these just returned items?
B-Stock is often the same as refurbished. There might be a cosmetic blemish, but it should be in 100% working order.

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post #38 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
RSL is the other one I am still looking at since it is front ported. The response stopping at 85Hz has me a bit scared with these. I feel like these are probably tuned to match up only with the RSL speedwoofer.
You would think so but this chart from Sound & Vision says the RSL Speedwoofer has lousy top end response.

Compare it to the same publication's review of the Q Acoustics 3010 system with Q Acoustic 3070 sub below it.



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post #39 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
EDIT: Also, I think I am making progress on eliminating some options. Since my center channel speaker has direct line of sight with all my seating positions, I plan on leaving it in the cabinet. Due to this, I am assuming I should focus on sealed enclosures for the center speaker, correct? If so, this has me probably eliminating HSU, & Ascend as their centers are all ported. I think that leaves me with Emotiva, NHT, SVS and maybe one other still in the running.
Front ported and some nice/decent speakers

HTD Level Three
https://www.htd.com/Level-THREE-Bookshelf-Speakers

https://www.htd.com/Level-THREE-Center-Channel-Speaker
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post #40 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Does anyone happen to know what the Ascend CBM-170 SE Center is? It apparently has its own part number but I can't find anything on it. Is this exactly the same as a CBM-170 SE?

EDIT: Also, I think I am making progress on eliminating some options. Since my center channel speaker has direct line of sight with all my seating positions, I plan on leaving it in the cabinet. Due to this, I am assuming I should focus on sealed enclosures for the center speaker, correct? If so, this has me probably eliminating HSU, & Ascend as their centers are all ported. I think that leaves me with Emotiva, NHT, SVS and maybe one other still in the running.
The Ascend website remains annoyingly convoluted and hard to navigate, unfortunately. There are 3 ways to order the 170SE center:

1. Call/email Ascend directly.
2. Use this page: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...isor.mv#bottom
3. Use this page for the (alleged) B-stock LCR of 3 x 170SE: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merch...ry_Code=BSTOCK

Regarding center speakers inside cabinets, many manufacturers like Chane (I think Ascend started doing this so, but call to confirm) automatically include foam port plugs with their rear ported centers. The idea is that when used together with a port plug and an 80Hz or higher crossover, you can minimize any adverse effects of putting such speakers inside a cabinet. I imagine actual real world results will vary from one make/model to another.

PS. Option #3 above is an outstanding value too. Having 3 identical fronts is actual the acoustic ideal, esp. if you're able to have them vertically aligned as in the photo below.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

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post #41 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 08:35 PM
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You can get 4 Martin Logan 35XT and the 50XT center for $2150 with free shipping from Crutchfield. I think Cherry is the only finish but it's a damn good deal and they sound awesome.

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post #42 of 62 Old 02-13-2020, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
EDIT: Also, I think I am making progress on eliminating some options. Since my center channel speaker has direct line of sight with all my seating positions, I plan on leaving it in the cabinet. Due to this, I am assuming I should focus on sealed enclosures for the center speaker, correct? If so, this has me probably eliminating HSU, & Ascend as their centers are all ported. I think that leaves me with Emotiva, NHT, SVS and maybe one other still in the running.
If you cross your centre channel at 80Hz at the lowest, you won't really need to worry about the rear ports since they don't really come into play at that point ( I think it only matters when you get down to 65Hz?). So I would keep HSU, and Ascend still on your list.

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post #43 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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If you cross your centre channel at 80Hz at the lowest, you won't really need to worry about the rear ports since they don't really come into play at that point ( I think it only matters when you get down to 65Hz?). So I would keep HSU, and Ascend still on your list.

And just like that my progress is gone!
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post #44 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I just spoke with SVS. I wanted to get their take on my situation. Due to the room volume, they had a bit of hesitation recommending the prime bookshelves as the fronts. They recommended the prime center, prime towers with the prime satellites. This package would run more around $1600 where as the bookshelf system would be around $1100. I guess I'll have to move SVS to the bottom of the list unless I decide to up the budget.
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post #45 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Would the level 2 work as surrounds? That would be about $900 for the system. Seems reasonable.
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post #46 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 11:30 AM
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I just spoke with SVS. I wanted to get their take on my situation. Due to the room volume, they had a bit of hesitation recommending the prime bookshelves as the fronts. They recommended the prime center, prime towers with the prime satellites. This package would run more around $1600 where as the bookshelf system would be around $1100. I guess I'll have to move SVS to the bottom of the list unless I decide to up the budget.
Ugh, sounds like SVS is paying their phone reps mostly on commission and a lousy hourly base wage then, if they're trying to upsell you so hard.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #47 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 11:32 AM
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Would the level 2 work as surrounds? That would be about $900 for the system. Seems reasonable.
If you want to save money on the rear surrounds, they do not even have to be the same brand. In this case, the HTD Level 3 and Level 2 will sound completely different due to the different tweeter types, so the "timbre matching" unicorn is even more dead and roasted than usual.

A pair of NHT SuperOnes ($97 apiece from Amazon) will do fine, no need to spend a penny more. You could probably even spend less if you wanted.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #48 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 11:34 AM
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I see everyone seems to be mainly focused on bookshelf. I thought maybe the room volume would require towers.
...I have had bad experiences with paper cones in my past.
Usually I'm the guy advocating towers, but if I had your space I'd be putting some not huge but decent-sized bookshelves, ideally 6" woofers, up on decorative shelves. Nothing against those cool brackets noted earlier, but get your wife to find some decorative shelf material that she likes. The shelves could be somewhat wider than the speakers, put knickknacks and/or framed pictures next to them. That would nicen up the space. Note: I don't mean shelves from the floor, I mean something like this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Home-Dec...W824/203662923 which there are all kinds of in many colors. I would just use the same shelf scheme and the same speakers all around.

Along the right side wall, make up a few maybe 4-6" deep frames with acoustic wedge foam inside. Cover with thin decorative or printed fabric. This is to absorb some of the acoustic energy splashing off that wall. Also, angle both L/R speakers in. The thing is for image width you want the right speaker almost like 45 degrees to reduce upper frequencies off the wall, but on the other hand that might look odd, so ya gotta play with it.

I'd also want a receiver with Audyssey or Dirac, as they are the most powerful room corrections, and that space could probably use help.

Subwoofer...not a small space, then again big subs will resonate through the house. If you ONLY listen on the couch, maybe build nearfield subs all under the couch. If sound leaking into the house is not a big deal because everyone watches movies at once, my recommendations are
- At least 12" woofer (or 2 with at least 10" but better 12" still)
- At least 300 watts RMS and better 500
- Room correction if you don't get a receiver with that (applies more to stereo setups)
- REMOTE CONTROL via hard remote or phone app would be really nice (I have been realizing as I listen at my brother's right now, sitting far and wanting to jack the bass up/down)

As for the budget, get really good bookshelves first. You can get this for $100 https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=9723 to tide you over if need be-it's what I got my brother for Christmas. Not gonna break his windows but sure adds nice bass.
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post #49 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 11:51 AM
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Triangle BR03 x 2 + BRC1 for front three. Fill in the surrounds with something from the used market. These will give you plenty of bass, native to the main speakers, so you don't have to worry about subs crossing over at anything other than 80Hz.

http://hifitrends.com/2020/01/05/pro...eakers-review/
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post #50 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 12:15 PM
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Would the level 2 work as surrounds? That would be about $900 for the system. Seems reasonable.
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post #51 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 04:07 PM
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Consider Canton from A4L.
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post #52 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 04:49 PM
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RSL is the other one I am still looking at since it is front ported. The response stopping at 85Hz has me a bit scared with these. I feel like these are probably tuned to match up only with the RSL speedwoofer.
Not an issue for any sub with output to 140Hz or higher. The Emotiva, for instance, has good output all the way up to 200Hz. I suspect that a ~120 Hz crossover point would be ideal for that speaker and 140 for the CG3. These crossover points would require that the sub remain at the front of the room, near the main speakers.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

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post #53 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Ugh, sounds like SVS is paying their phone reps mostly on commission and a lousy hourly base wage then, if they're trying to upsell you so hard.

For full disclosure they didn't say the bookshelves wouldn't work, they were just "hesitant." They said that crossed over at 80Hz the towers will provide better, fuller output than the bookshelves.
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post #54 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Not an issue for any sub with output to 140Hz or higher. The Emotiva, for instance, has good output all the way up to 200Hz. I suspect that a ~120 Hz crossover point would be ideal for that speaker and 140 for the CG3. These crossover points would require that the sub remain at the front of the room, near the main speakers.

My sub appears to be decently flat from 30Hz to 125Hz. Based on this, I think I might take a serious look at the RSL CG5 fronts, CG3 center and surrouds.
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post #55 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 06:52 PM
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For full disclosure they didn't say the bookshelves wouldn't work, they were just "hesitant." They said that crossed over at 80Hz the towers will provide better, fuller output than the bookshelves.
Heh, I think that's called a "soft sell" (planting uncertainty) rather than a "hard sell" (actual scare-mongering). They did the same thing with me when I called for sub advice...kept expressing doubt that MAYBE even a *pair* of SB12 would not be enough for my room.

Of course, you could order the bookshelves from them and, if you liked the tonality but thought they were not enough, use their free return shipping to send them back for the towers.

12ft listening distance is pretty average, IMO. When people get above 15ft that's when having higher sensitivity and more/bigger woofers might be needed.

But if you really want room-filling high-volume capacity, the dual woofer Ascend 340SE costs the same $500/pr as the Primes and has 3-4db higher sensitivity which is huge.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #56 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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But if you really want room-filling high-volume capacity, the dual woofer Ascend 340SE costs the same $500/pr as the Primes and has 3-4db higher sensitivity which is huge.

I am definitely looking at those. I'm not sure the best way to match out the rest of the system. HTM-200 SE for the rears, right? Would I need to go with the 340SE center to do this system justice? That would come out to around $1200 unless I wait for a sale, I think.
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post #57 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 08:09 PM
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My personal opinion is hold off, save your money and up the budget. Don't jump in and try to get what you can on the cheap. You will regret it in the end and spend more money. On speakers alone, I think you need to double up your budget. Since your sticking with your receiver, can it power any of the new speakers your looking at to levels that will make them sing? I don't think so. Maybe an option would be one of the highend soundbars from Sony or Samsung that offer Dolby Atmos and rear surrounds? Fits within the budget.

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post #58 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 08:11 PM
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I am definitely looking at those. I'm not sure the best way to match out the rest of the system. HTM-200 SE for the rears, right? Would I need to go with the 340SE center to do this system justice? That would come out to around $1200 unless I wait for a sale, I think.
I think you'd be fine with the 170SE for L/R, the 340SE for the center, and for your rears either the 200SE (if wall mounting and wanting more compactness) or 170SE (if putting on stands or not concerned about compactness).

About $900 shipped for either, since the 170 and 200 cost about the same. You can save by getting 2 pairs of 170 as B-stock though.

If you're not sure whether you need the 340SE for L/R, then start with ordering just 2 x 170SE + 1 x 340SE...if you decide the the 170SE isn't enough up front, THEN you can order a pair of the 340SE and move the 170SE to surround duty.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #59 of 62 Old 02-14-2020, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Would the level 2 work as surrounds? That would be about $900 for the system. Seems reasonable.
Yes, they'd be just fine for surrounds.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 (Pending: Marantz SR6014) | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

Music: Cambridge Audio AXR100 | Stanton T.62 | Cambridge Audio AXC35 | KEF Q150 L/R
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post #60 of 62 Old 02-15-2020, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kevin. W View Post
Since your sticking with your receiver, can it power any of the new speakers your looking at to levels that will make them sing? I don't think so.

The receiver puts out about 100-125W/channel depending on the frequency range. I think as the frequency goes up, the power out capability increases.


It isn't a long term "keeping." After speakers are done I will eventually get a new receiver as I'd like to have something with the auto room calibration.
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