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post #1 of 17 Old 03-29-2020, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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In Wall vs Floor Standing Towers for 135 inch screen...

Hello everyone,

I am currently thinking about setting up a theater / fun room in a room off of the kitchen. It is 15 feet wide x 15 feet deep and 9 ft ceilings. It will be for watching movies, UFC fights, and sports with friends and family.

Planning on going with a 135 inch 16:9 screen and likely the Epson5050UB, the JVC NX5 doesn't have enough room to throw a 135 inch image so if I wanted to go with the JVC I'd have to do a 120 inch screen. This is a separate question-- but would you rather have 135 inch with epson or 120 inch with JVC? Seating distance is 13.5 feet.

The issue is I cant decide which speakers to go with.

So far I have decided between the following:

R-5502-W II LCR behind the screen
Klipsch R 5650 S II behind and above the sofa in the wall

VS

Klipsch RP 280F
Klipsch 440C / 450C
Klipsch 240S - surround on stands

How much better are the floor standing speakers listed above vs the in walls? Are there other in walls I should consider that are slightly more expensive but much better? or are the ones I selected really good?

I currently have 280F and 440C in my other room and like them a lot. Would I be happy with having the R-5502-W II in the other room behind the 135 inch screen or be disappointed?

Pricing is pretty similar, so it is more of an aesthetic and clean look vs floor standing towers...

Edit: in both cases I will be going with a 15 inch subwoofer either from HSU, Rythmik or the monolith.

Last edited by Drew1204; 03-29-2020 at 03:48 PM.
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post #2 of 17 Old 03-29-2020, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
Planning on going with a 135 inch 16:9 screen and likely the Epson5050UB, the JVC NX5 doesn't have enough room to throw a 135 inch image so if I wanted to go with the JVC I'd have to do a 120 inch screen. This is a separate question-- but would you rather have 135 inch with epson or 120 inch with JVC? Seating distance is 13.5 feet.

The issue is I cant decide which speakers to go with.

So far I have decided between the following:

R-5502-W II LCR behind the screen
Klipsch R 5650 S II behind and above the sofa in the wall

VS

Klipsch RP 280F
Klipsch 440C / 450C
Klipsch 240S - surround on stands

How much better are the floor standing speakers listed above vs the in walls? Are there other in walls I should consider that are slightly more expensive but much better? or are the ones I selected really good?

I currently have 280F and 440C in my other room and like them a lot. Would I be happy with having the R-5502-W II in the other room behind the 135 inch screen or be disappointed?

Pricing is pretty similar, so it is more of an aesthetic and clean look vs floor standing towers...
In walls for the critical front 3 are handicapped by the inability to toe them in towards your main listening position. Plus you have to pay for installation, and if you get the speakers but aren't crazy about them, returning/exchanging is a massive headache. Not to mention that when you move, you leave the speakers behind = lost investment.

Also, if you have enough space to put the front L/R on the sides of the screen and the center underneath the screen, you can go with a normal screen not an AT one which will save you more money.

Don't know about the PJ but I do have a cheap Epson that I'm very happy with, but I think the smaller image size would actually be a plus because it will allow you to have the center speaker's tweeter higher from the ground, closer to ear level---the center does 70-80% of the HT output so *this* is what you are actually hearing during HT, the L/R not as much and the surrounds the least.

Do you already have a sub for this new room?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #3 of 17 Old 03-29-2020, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
In walls for the critical front 3 are handicapped by the inability to toe them in towards your main listening position. Plus you have to pay for installation, and if you get the speakers but aren't crazy about them, returning/exchanging is a massive headache. Not to mention that when you move, you leave the speakers behind = lost investment.

Also, if you have enough space to put the front L/R on the sides of the screen and the center underneath the screen, you can go with a normal screen not an AT one which will save you more money.

Don't know about the PJ but I do have a cheap Epson that I'm very happy with, but I think the smaller image size would actually be a plus because it will allow you to have the center speaker's tweeter higher from the ground, closer to ear level---the center does 70-80% of the HT output so *this* is what you are actually hearing during HT, the L/R not as much and the surrounds the least.

Do you already have a sub for this new room?
Hey thank you for the help! Yeah those are good points!

I do have enough room off to the sides of the screen to fit the towers, and could put the center on a stand under the screen about 16 inches off the floor.

Ear level will be about 45-48 inches off the ground so I wouldn't be able to get it close to ear level, whereas the in-walls I can.

Yes, in both cases I will be going with a 15 inch subwoofer either from HSU, Rythmik or the monolith from monoprice. Still cant decide between the 3.
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post #4 of 17 Old 03-29-2020, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
I do have enough room off to the sides of the screen to fit the towers, and could put the center on a stand under the screen about 16 inches off the floor.

Ear level will be about 45-48 inches off the ground so I wouldn't be able to get it close to ear level, whereas the in-walls I can.

Yes, in both cases I will be going with a 15 inch subwoofer either from HSU, Rythmik or the monolith from monoprice. Still cant decide between the 3.
Well, one of the beauties of boxed speakers is that not only can they be toed in towards the MLP, they can also be TILTED upwards to point tweeters at ear level (see pic). So that negates the one advantage of using an in-wall center.

The Monolith is mainly appealing when they offer a big discount code, otherwise at regular pricing you would get much better service after the sale from Rythmik, then Hsu.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 17 Old 03-29-2020, 05:18 PM
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I say it all depends on whether your screen is going to be acoustically transparent and have room for towers behind it. I think towers are going to sound better than in-walls and 3 identical towers would be about the pinnacle of sound quality. I would also get 2 identical subs and put them in the corners, even if it means getting slightly smaller and/or cheaper subs.
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post #6 of 17 Old 03-29-2020, 06:54 PM
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I would agree with Aaron that going with three identical towers behind an AT screen would give the best possible SQ.

As long as you get your Klipsch speakers discounted by your dealer, 20% at the least, you should end up with a nice system at a nice price.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #7 of 17 Old 03-30-2020, 03:01 PM
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In Wall vs Floor Standing Towers for 135 inch screen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I would agree with Aaron that going with three identical towers behind an AT screen would give the best possible SQ.

As long as you get your Klipsch speakers discounted by your dealer, 20% at the least, you should end up with a nice system at a nice price.
Go with the towers , sadly all in one afford we’re klipsch icon . Been unable to find a job near me it’s like a greater Depression.

Yeah look out for sales, I’ve never ordered speakers from Newegg but a amplifier I did.
See if you can find them online for cheap maybe even price match .
Sadly bestbuy only has the fake klipsch reference for 50% on Black Friday which are just synergies.... with reference color d drivers ... but not real



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post #8 of 17 Old 03-31-2020, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post
I say it all depends on whether your screen is going to be acoustically transparent and have room for towers behind it. I think towers are going to sound better than in-walls and 3 identical towers would be about the pinnacle of sound quality. I would also get 2 identical subs and put them in the corners, even if it means getting slightly smaller and/or cheaper subs.
Hmmm Aaron your post, this thread, and your previous detailed testing and reporting (enjoyed what you had to say about the KEF LS50 speakers and agree with your testing methods) have me thinking.

On this thread I started a day or two ago I have asked for opinions on in wall speakers for a baffle wall in a new home construction I am planning.

I wanted to go with an AT screen both to give a cleaner look but also because I had read of some of the advantages of a baffle wall behind the screen. Although I have currently had to mothball our home theater due to that room serving another function, in the days when it served as a home theater I was running tower speakers designed by Peter Thomsen - an audio engineer who worked formerly with B&O and then set up his own company called Acoustic Reality. He made a tetrahedron shaped speaker which sat on matching monobloc Class D amplifiers (picture attached - mine do not have the base unit as these do so cut off at the silver line and they also normally sit on top of his amplifiers). Scan-Speak drivers, top notch components for both the speakers and matching amplifiers etc. etc.

Anyway, I had been kind of liking the idea of finding new LCR speakers and moving to the cleaner room look of an AT screen and a baffle wall with in wall speakers.

But....I suppose a very different option would be to go with the AT screen and keep using my Acoustic Reality towers. I ran them with a virtual center when I had the home theater up and running and was very happy with them in that configuration...and I suppose if I did move them behind an AT screen I could try and find a suitably matched centre speaker.

I'd appreciate thoughts from those following this thread on the pros and cons of my repurposing my Acoustic Reality towers versus going to an all new baffle wall and in wall speaker set up. As I see it, repurposing would be less expensive, but would require I move the screen forward to probably about a meter off the front wall and then treat the front wall. As it is a new home build that is in the planning stages, I do have the ability now to accomodate these kinds of changes. I had hoped to not take more than 1.6m of total length of the room (i.e. I plan to end at a finished theatre length of 5.23m from a rough enclosure starting length of 6.83m - for info my final finished theatre width desired is 4.25m and starting rough enclosure width is 4.75m).
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post #9 of 17 Old 03-31-2020, 09:44 AM
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[QUOTE=Drew1204;59425942]Hello everyone,

I am currently thinking about setting up a theater / fun room in a room off of the kitchen. It is 15 feet wide x 15 feet deep and 9 ft ceilings. It will be for watching movies, UFC fights, and sports with friends and family.

Planning on going with a 135 inch 16:9 screen and likely the Epson5050UB, the JVC NX5 doesn't have enough room to throw a 135 inch image so if I wanted to go with the JVC I'd have to do a 120 inch screen. This is a separate question-- but would you rather have 135 inch with epson or 120 inch with JVC? Seating distance is 13.5 feet.

The issue is I cant decide which speakers to go with.

So far I have decided between the following:

R-5502-W II LCR behind the screen
Klipsch R 5650 S II behind and above the sofa in the wall ...

Exciting isn't it? I hope this is some constructive food for thought. I'll start by elaborating on some of the very good feedback Zorba made in his post. In wall installations self impose added expense, prevent adjusting speaker height, tilt, tow-in, and L/R spacing which are critically necessary to tweak your front soundstage for maximum soundstage depth, width, accuracy and maximum imaging and accurate surround sound movement as you will want to experience in you seating positions...it really is that simple. Once you place in-walls you have to live with it or spend a lot more money to get it right. Also, if you are planning a 135" screen, which is pretty wide on a 15' wall, you absolutely will want to use an AT screen as to avoid having to place your L/R speakers so far apart that you loose soundstage accuracy ... even with a 120" screen on a 15' wide wall, you are going to be hard pressed for enough room on the side of your screen for your speakers without having them very near the side walls and that most often presents it's own detrimental sonic problems for the majority of speakers. So with either size screen on a 15' wide room I'd recommend an AT screen to allow proper LCR placement and adjustment. With AT screens, READ THIS TWICE...I also recommend auditioning your speaker candidates from behind your screen once it's in place because even the best AT screens diffuse sound and can have significant effects on the sound and dispersion coming from behind them...trust me you will be glad you do this...especially if you plan on also using your system for HQ/audiophile music listening in addition to HT. Lastly, two or more subs is the most underrated improvement you can make to any single sub system....you can always do that later. Good luck

Last edited by JonfromCB; 03-31-2020 at 09:54 AM.
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post #10 of 17 Old 03-31-2020, 11:44 AM
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In walls are also dependent on the acoustical properties of your wall. Their sound quality will not be as predictably good as a good set of towers. And I agree if you have an AT screen, go with 3 identical towers. I don't, but wish I had that setup.
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post #11 of 17 Old 03-31-2020, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave in gva View Post
Hmmm Aaron your post, this thread, and your previous detailed testing and reporting (enjoyed what you had to say about the KEF LS50 speakers and agree with your testing methods) have me thinking.

On this thread I started a day or two ago I have asked for opinions on in wall speakers for a baffle wall in a new home construction I am planning.

I wanted to go with an AT screen both to give a cleaner look but also because I had read of some of the advantages of a baffle wall behind the screen. Although I have currently had to mothball our home theater due to that room serving another function, in the days when it served as a home theater I was running tower speakers designed by Peter Thomsen - an audio engineer who worked formerly with B&O and then set up his own company called Acoustic Reality. He made a tetrahedron shaped speaker which sat on matching monobloc Class D amplifiers (picture attached - mine do not have the base unit as these do so cut off at the silver line and they also normally sit on top of his amplifiers). Scan-Speak drivers, top notch components for both the speakers and matching amplifiers etc. etc.

Anyway, I had been kind of liking the idea of finding new LCR speakers and moving to the cleaner room look of an AT screen and a baffle wall with in wall speakers.

But....I suppose a very different option would be to go with the AT screen and keep using my Acoustic Reality towers. I ran them with a virtual center when I had the home theater up and running and was very happy with them in that configuration...and I suppose if I did move them behind an AT screen I could try and find a suitably matched centre speaker.

I'd appreciate thoughts from those following this thread on the pros and cons of my repurposing my Acoustic Reality towers versus going to an all new baffle wall and in wall speaker set up. As I see it, repurposing would be less expensive, but would require I move the screen forward to probably about a meter off the front wall and then treat the front wall. As it is a new home build that is in the planning stages, I do have the ability now to accomodate these kinds of changes. I had hoped to not take more than 1.6m of total length of the room (i.e. I plan to end at a finished theatre length of 5.23m from a rough enclosure starting length of 6.83m - for info my final finished theatre width desired is 4.25m and starting rough enclosure width is 4.75m).

Wow tyrangle shaped , speakers look incredible, I had no idea such speakers existed .


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post #12 of 17 Old 03-31-2020, 11:39 PM
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Wow tyrangle shaped , speakers look incredible, I had no idea such speakers existed .


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Yes the shape actually came in handy when I had them in a HT....the speakers have only 3 faces and all these faces slope at the same angle up towards the apex. That meant I could have the speakers on the floor in front of the screen and relatively close to the screen (in order to keep them away as much as I could from the side walls). Their sloping profile along the sides meant that as they came up to the height where the image on the screen would begin they were far enough away from the screen that they didn't interfere.

They sounded great too. Very detailed and great soundstaging. Perhaps a bit light in the bass department but I guess that is why Peter later made the bass modules for them that you see in the photo. In any event for my next home theater I will definitely be going with subs, so I am less concerned about that.

If I did stick these behind an AT screen, could anyone offer suggestions for a suitable centre that would be a good match with the Acoustic Reality speakers and their Scan-Speak drivers?

Dave
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post #13 of 17 Old 04-01-2020, 01:18 AM
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in-wall speakers are just as good as towers not all speakers are the same. Plus some in-wall speakers allow for you to aim them at your MLP. If I wasn't so invested into DIY right now I would run Golden Ear Invisa Signature Point Source as my LCR they sound amazing in my friend theater that's 15x17.



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If you desire the clean look of in wall speakers, there are distinct and significant advantages of in wall speakers vs box speakers in a room. The cons have already been mentioned by those who have a strong preference for box speakers.

In walls have a significant sound quality advantage in that they eliminate SBIR, which causes bad nulls in the frequency response due to reflection of sound off the back wall. This reflected sound due to the suboptimal design of box speakers standing in a room ends up out of phase with the direct sound, causing cancellation. Difficult to fix with eq since eq cannot fix a null.

In walls eliminate SBR since there is no wall behind the baffle...you get a much better frequency response which is more accurate and higher fidelity. Another advantage of in walls is that you don't spend half your speaker budget on the cabinets.

Here is an example of an exceptionally well designed in wall speaker. Toe in shouldn't be much of an issue as the horizontal off axis dispersion is excellent meaning the speaker sounds the same off axis as it does on axis. Revel W890/893:


You won't find many box speakers that measure any better.

P.S. I own and use box speakers, just trying to relay some facts rather than impose my personal bias to your situation.
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post #15 of 17 Old 04-01-2020, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave in gva View Post
If I did stick these behind an AT screen, could anyone offer suggestions for a suitable centre that would be a good match with the Acoustic Reality speakers and their Scan-Speak drivers?
Not to sound trite, but the best centre is a third, identical, speaker.
Check out DIY Soundgroup for speaker designs. There is a huge following in the DIY sub-forum.
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post #16 of 17 Old 04-01-2020, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
R-5502-W II LCR behind the screen VS Klipsch RP 280F
The cabinet volume is vaguely similar, presuming "in-wall" would mean a usual stud with NO FIREBREAK.
Otherwise, you have 2x8" with a large horn versus 2x5" and a smaller horn. In-wall can definitely be a cleaner aesthetic, and eliminates those pesky early reflections. BUT, what is BEHIND those walls? Sound WILL bleed through...
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post #17 of 17 Old 04-01-2020, 05:55 PM
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If I did stick these behind an AT screen, could anyone offer suggestions for a suitable centre that would be a good match with the Acoustic Reality speakers and their Scan-Speak drivers?
Don't worry about what is a good "match"---worry about what is a *good* CENTER SPEAKER.

All you need is something that is tonally neutral enough not to call undue attention to itself, produces enough voice clarity to allow you to effortlessly understand dialogue without needing any special electronic tweaking, and goes down low enough so that male voices don't sound like chipmunks.

And it doesn't need to cost much more than $250-400, depending on how much you need/want a pretty cabinet.
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