Outdoor speakers options in full elements? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 11Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cpotter638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Outdoor speakers options in full elements?

We have outdoor speakers at our covered patio and pool deck. These include:
  • 2 Sonance Mariner 62's on covered patio
  • 4 Speakercraft OG's in landscaping bed. These are "staked" and thus easily mounted in mulch.


I'm happy with the Sonance speakers. The Spearcraft speakers are crap (at least at high volumes). Want to replace the Speakercraft speakers with something that provides better audio (especially at high volumes).

Any suggestions? The best I can come up with currently:

Polk Atrium (4, 5, or 6). I think these are better placed in a covered / partially covered location; however, they supposedly can be placed directly in the elements. I would uninstall and take indoors in the winter.

Anyone have experience with placing the Polk Atriums directly in rain / elements? Any other better suggestions? "Rock type" speakers would be another option, but from what I've read, most are crap.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Chad
cpotter638 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cpotter638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Looking for passive speakers that can be placed in landscape bed in full elements. Typically listen at louder volumes. Have a 5 acre lot. Neighbors not a problem.
cpotter638 is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 10:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 8,408
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3486 Post(s)
Liked: 3297
Placing speakers in a mulch bed almost guarantees that their sound will be unsatisfying. Outdoor speakers benefit greatly by the reinforcement of surfaces. The more reinforcement, the less power you have to throw at them to get an equivalent apparent volume level. So, in the bed situation, you need to have better speakers than those you would use against a wall and additional power to drive them to those levels.

Also, note that un-reinforced speakers lose 6 dB for every doubling of distance, so the farther the speakers are from the listeners, the harder they have to work to produce the required volume levels.

So, three choices for you. One, find positions for your speakers that allow them to be reinforced by at least one flat surface (mulch doesn't count), or two, invest in higher quality speakers and a more powerful amp to drive them (or higher efficiency speakers), or three, bring them far closer to the listener.

One other thought comes to mind, if the problem is the lack of bass, get an outdoor subwoofer or two.

EDIT: You could double the number of speakers, to reduce the strain on each.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 03-30-2020 at 11:42 AM.
RayGuy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 02:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotter638 View Post
We have outdoor speakers at our covered patio and pool deck. These include:
  • 2 Sonance Mariner 62's on covered patio
  • 4 Speakercraft OG's in landscaping bed. These are "staked" and thus easily mounted in mulch.


I'm happy with the Sonance speakers. The Spearcraft speakers are crap (at least at high volumes). Want to replace the Speakercraft speakers with something that provides better audio (especially at high volumes).

Any suggestions? The best I can come up with currently:

Polk Atrium (4, 5, or 6). I think these are better placed in a covered / partially covered location; however, they supposedly can be placed directly in the elements. I would uninstall and take indoors in the winter.

Anyone have experience with placing the Polk Atriums directly in rain / elements? Any other better suggestions? "Rock type" speakers would be another option, but from what I've read, most are crap.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Chad
LOTS OF INFO BELOW....

I do a ton of landscape sound systems every year. It's one of my favorite project types to design and install for my clients. When done right, the results are amazing and one of the finest audio experiences one can have. On a lot of these systems I work hand in hand with engineers from some spectacular manufacturers: James Loudspeaker, Revel, JBL Control, Crown, NEAR, etc etc. I've done everything from basic stuff mounted under the eave of a house to giant, $50,000 systems lining the edge of a cliff in Ibiza, Spain circling the perimeter of a party villa.

^ I am putting the above out there because I think that when weighing advice it's important to weigh one's level of experience in actually working with the subject at hand. MULCH DOES NOT MATTER WHATSOEVER. Distance does, YES, but dirt, grass, mulch, a ficus, etc etc.... no. If anything, the softer material helps with that early reflection point where the harsh properties of brick, siding (especially flimsy or loose), etc can be brutal to high frequencies.

I can make a basic recommendation for you. This is essentially going blind without specific dimensions or a drawing or anything to go off of....

- You absolutely CAN put speakers in your mulch and plant life around your property without issue.

- In my experience, I think Revel or NEAR (more expensive) make the best surface mount outdoor speakers. Personally, I like the Revel (I use these in my own home), but if you have to put these things far way from you, when powered properly, the NEAR surface mount stuff can melt your face off from 100 yards+ WITH some bass without breaking a sweat. I have a client on a golf course who demanded loud and ultra high quality from surface mount speakers on his $2,000,000 garage.... the NEAR LB8T (T is for 70volt - no T is 8ohm. I used these with a Crown CDI amp so I used the T model, but sound quality is the same) did it..... all the way across the fairway.

REVEL (M55XC or M80XC) https://www.revelspeakers.com/produc...treme-climate/

NEAR http://www.nearspeakers.com/bracket-...lb-series.html

HOWEVER, I think the Revel sounds better for what I would call "normal" distances and for far less money. Revel has 2 sizes, the 8" obviously has better bass, but the 5 1/4" may be fine depending on... again, this is outside... distance and volume level. These are spectacular sounding. And, YES, I am familiar with the Sonance outdoor lines and have used them all from the basic stuff to a $12,000 sub sat system with 12 sats & 2 12" direct burial subs. I have used Sonance plenty. The Revel product is in a different league of quality completely, but priced similarly. I agree with you that Polk Atrum is junk. Buy Dayton Audio from Parts Express if you are on a lower budget. Those are nicer than the Polks for sure.

^ If setting into mulch and completely exposed, the Revel uses the same enclosure and mounting system from JBL's "Control" outdoor commercial speaker line that's used in amusement parks, etc. It has screw down terminations and a boot/plate cover to keep things dry. I've had these in many types of environments in mulch, rock, around lakes, creeks, etc and never a service call. NEAR, owned by Bogen, also has this commercial style connectors.

^ Plus, Revel usually has specials on outdoor sound this time of year, so a dealer should be able to help you on the money side of it. MSRP on the M80XC is $900/pair & the M5XC5 $600/pair, so less than that should be easy.

- You CAN use rock speakers (Klipsch actually makes an amazing rock speaker product that I would consider high value for the cost). Rockoustics will cost a premium, but is also a fabulous speaker and probably the best "rock" out there. Personally, I've always thought rock speakers look a little off, unless the rocks around them are chosen correctly to blend it in.

- These are also interesting if putting a further distance away, but you would have to add subs for bass reinforcement - no question https://mseaudio.com/xt-spyke-pm-bk.html

- If you're placing these speakers far far away and need to launch sound over 30, 40, 50, 100 yards, etc. there are a bunch of other options for that, but you're getting into some big money stuff there and would be better off providing a drawing.

- Something to consider if you have a bit of a larger budget, but DON'T want to go into the mid 5 figures and up with a James Loudspeaker or the bigger (more expensive) Revel Sub/Sat systems...

Klipsch has some really sharp landscape stuff and also runs deals for dealers this time of year. You could do 2 or 4 of the Pro650 and the Pro10SW sub and have a really really killer little rig out there. https://www.klipsch.com/custom-insta...door/landscape

EDIT: Two other options and a different types of speakers...

- Cherry Bomb from Rockcoustics(doesn't look like a rock). It's a 3-way speaker with a 5" woofer buried down into the ground acompanied to a 4" mid and 3/4" tweeter. https://rockustics.mseaudio.com/prod...-speakers.html - again, though, you're getting into pricier solutions that are outstanding, but on the mid to upper end of things. I would take a pair of the M80XC at $900 or less over a pair of these at $1,300/pair (or less). Why you would use something like this is if you needed speakers all over a space and didn't want the black boxes sitting out nor the expense of multiple subs. This kind of splits the middle between the concepts while keeping an aesthetic.

- These work well from sound tube and sound very good https://soundtube.mseaudio.com/xt850-gn.html again, though, you're looking at a pricier option than the Revels. It all depends on application.

^ Hope some of that helps! I have extensive experience with the above as well as a ton of other outdoor pieces. Those are my favorites, but other viable options exist alll over the price spectrum.
Jointfx and AVChallangedNJ like this.

Last edited by PrestigeAudio; 03-30-2020 at 02:45 PM.
PrestigeAudio is offline  
post #5 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 02:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,024
Mentioned: 301 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9170 Post(s)
Liked: 7031
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotter638 View Post
We have outdoor speakers at our covered patio and pool deck. These include:
  • 2 Sonance Mariner 62's on covered patio
  • 4 Speakercraft OG's in landscaping bed. These are "staked" and thus easily mounted in mulch.

I'm happy with the Sonance speakers. The Spearcraft speakers are crap (at least at high volumes). Want to replace the Speakercraft speakers with something that provides better audio (especially at high volumes). Any suggestions?
I'd look into these---free return shipping is a big plus:
https://rslspeakers.com/products/rsl-outsider-ii/

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 02:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I'd look into these---free return shipping is a big plus:
https://rslspeakers.com/products/rsl-outsider-ii/
Why not just go this route if you're going to go bottom dollar and generic, run of the mill Chinese engineered? https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...black--310-012

$119 cheaper for the pair and they weigh 1lbs more than the RSL. I've used them on plenty of bars and restaurants where their budget is next to nothing. They hold up ok and sound fine for the $ for light music.

Something to note on speakers with standard exposed terminations laying in mulch or exposed... the connections will get wet, come loose, etc and this causes problems.

Last edited by PrestigeAudio; 03-30-2020 at 02:59 PM.
PrestigeAudio is offline  
post #7 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 03:08 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,024
Mentioned: 301 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9170 Post(s)
Liked: 7031
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
Why not just go this route if you're going to go bottom dollar and generic, run of the mill Chinese engineered? https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...black--310-012
LOL, I doubt that Joe Rogers would describe his speakers that way. Like 95% of speakers today, they are engineered here, produced overseas, and then shipped here for resale---including many of the tiny boutique brands with ludicrously inflated pricetags that offer the biggest per-unit sales profits to salesmen (hence their popularity with said sub-stratum).

https://rslspeakers.com/our-story/

And I doubt Parts Express would offer free return shipping on their product, either.

But who knows, perhaps the PE product would be nearly or just as good as a boutique brand product costing 10x as much. The joys of capitalism and all.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 03:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,027
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1279 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotter638 View Post
We have outdoor speakers at our covered patio and pool deck. These include:
  • 2 Sonance Mariner 62's on covered patio
  • 4 Speakercraft OG's in landscaping bed. These are "staked" and thus easily mounted in mulch.


I'm happy with the Sonance speakers. The Spearcraft speakers are crap (at least at high volumes). Want to replace the Speakercraft speakers with something that provides better audio (especially at high volumes).

Any suggestions? The best I can come up with currently:

Polk Atrium (4, 5, or 6). I think these are better placed in a covered / partially covered location; however, they supposedly can be placed directly in the elements. I would uninstall and take indoors in the winter.

Anyone have experience with placing the Polk Atriums directly in rain / elements? Any other better suggestions? "Rock type" speakers would be another option, but from what I've read, most are crap.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Chad

The Polk Audio Atrium 6 is ok. I use a much older version of that speaker for my backyard theater and have been happy with its performance.

The Klipsch AW-650 and AW-525 will do a good job but they're a bit pricey. I've used Near and they are nice if you can find a dealer that will work with you on price discount. The Revel's are also nice but again you need to find a dealer that will work with you on price.

I think the best units for price/value at the moment come from OSD. They make a variety of outdoor speakers and have recently moved into home theater specific units, the OSD Black line. They get very good reviews. They also make in ground, buried sub-woofers, rock speakers, etc.

Take a look at the OSD-AP650. It's comparable to the Klipsch AW-650. The AP650 is a 6.5" - 1" dome tweeter 2-way design that has gotten great reviews. The best part maybe that you can buy 4 pair, for what one pair of Klipsch AW-650's cost as they are an ID company specializing in outdoor speakers.

The OSD-AP840 is an 8" 2-way that is quite similar to the Revel M80XC.

OSD also has most of their speakers available in 70v constant voltage systems as well as amplifiers and accessories.

They are internet direct to keep the prices down and have a 30 day free trial period. They also offer a free design service if you upload your plan/lay-out to them.

I was skeptical considering the price of OSD units but was pleasantly surprised by their quality.

They have been changing things around in the internet and sell direct now as "Whole House Audio".

https://www.wholehouseaudio.com/prod...nal-ap650.html


For serious continuous outdoor use with great sound at higher volume level's I would look at the Electro-Voice ZX1i -90. It's an 8" 2-way with a 1.25" compression driver. It's capable of 111dB SPL at 13' distance with a max SPL of 123dB. They have weatherized input panels and a constant voltage option.

https://www.electrovoice.com/binary/...8399990027.pdf
Billy p and smithsabom like this.

Last edited by b curry; 03-30-2020 at 04:27 PM.
b curry is online now  
post #9 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 03:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
LOL, I doubt that Joe Rogers would describe his speakers that way. Like 95% of speakers today, they are engineered here, produced overseas, and then shipped here for resale---including many of the tiny boutique brands with ludicrously inflated pricetags that offer the biggest per-unit sales profits to salesmen (hence their popularity with said sub-stratum).

https://rslspeakers.com/our-story/


And I doubt Parts Express would offer free return shipping on their product, either.

But who knows, perhaps the PE product would be nearly or just as good as a boutique brand product costing 10x as much. The joys of capitalism and all.

Have you even heard the speakers you recommended? What technical reasons do you think the RSL speaker is better than the Parts Express speaker?

Last edited by PrestigeAudio; 03-30-2020 at 03:56 PM.
PrestigeAudio is offline  
post #10 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 03:56 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,024
Mentioned: 301 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9170 Post(s)
Liked: 7031
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post
May I ask what first hand knowledge you have about manufacturing and engineering in the A/V market place either domestically or globally? I have 20 years working with it in various capacities. Other than the internet learning, what is your experience? I ask because you have tremendous confidence in your posts and I wish to understand where that comes from.

Have you even heard the speakers you recommended? What technical reasons do you think the RSL speaker is better than the Parts Express speaker?
LOL, let's not sidetrack this thread with more of your self-promotional antics, shall we? I'm putting you on my "ignore" list from here on out.
Billy p likes this.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
post #11 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 04:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
LOL, let's not sidetrack this thread with more of your self-promotional antics, shall we? I'm putting you on my "ignore" list from here on out.
The answer was... ZERO experience and you've never heard the speakers you recommend.

Ignoring me is definitely your best choice.

Last edited by PrestigeAudio; 03-30-2020 at 04:07 PM.
PrestigeAudio is offline  
post #12 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 05:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotter638 View Post
We have outdoor speakers at our covered patio and pool deck. These include:
  • 2 Sonance Mariner 62's on covered patio
  • 4 Speakercraft OG's in landscaping bed. These are "staked" and thus easily mounted in mulch.


I'm happy with the Sonance speakers. The Spearcraft speakers are crap (at least at high volumes). Want to replace the Speakercraft speakers with something that provides better audio (especially at high volumes).

Any suggestions? The best I can come up with currently:

Polk Atrium (4, 5, or 6). I think these are better placed in a covered / partially covered location; however, they supposedly can be placed directly in the elements. I would uninstall and take indoors in the winter.

Anyone have experience with placing the Polk Atriums directly in rain / elements? Any other better suggestions? "Rock type" speakers would be another option, but from what I've read, most are crap.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Chad
I used the Polk Atrium 6 outdoors in my hot tub...all year round...mounted inside a gazebo. Never really subjected to the elements (ie: sun + rain) being undercover...the moisture & heat from the spa during those cold winter nights, they never once let me down. I also used rock style speakers with a dual voice coil....in my garden during the elements of the summer months...again no issues and they sounded fine...I used low voltage landscape wire, taped and silicone all my connections.

Btw....do you have a budget in mind...personally I wouldn't spend a whole heep of cash for outdoor speakers...indoors well that's another..

Ascend Acoustics: Towers, STC w RAAL & 200 SE in espresso,
65" LG OLED C9, Anthem MRX 300, Oppo 103D,
Sub: Funk Audio 18: (Santos Rosewood)
Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors but we borrow it from our children!
Billy p is offline  
post #13 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 05:13 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,024
Mentioned: 301 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9170 Post(s)
Liked: 7031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
personally I wouldn't spend a whole heep of cash for outdoor speakers.
Why not? Outdoor speaker salesmen need to eat too, ya know!


~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
post #14 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 05:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
personally I wouldn't spend a whole heep of cash for outdoor speakers.
Why not? Outdoor speaker salesmen need to eat too, ya know!

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Yea... like the one posting within this thread....jk...lol.
Zorba922 likes this.

Ascend Acoustics: Towers, STC w RAAL & 200 SE in espresso,
65" LG OLED C9, Anthem MRX 300, Oppo 103D,
Sub: Funk Audio 18: (Santos Rosewood)
Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors but we borrow it from our children!

Last edited by Billy p; 03-30-2020 at 05:49 PM.
Billy p is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 05:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
I used the Polk Atrium 6 outdoors in my hot tub...all year round...mounted inside a gazebo. Never really subjected to the elements (ie: sun + rain) being undercover...the moisture & heat from the spa during those cold winter nights, they never once let me down. I also used rock style speakers with a dual voice coil....in my garden during the elements of the summer months...again no issues and they sounded fine...I used low voltage landscape wire, taped and silicone all my connections.

Btw....do you have a budget in mind...personally I wouldn't spend a whole heep of cash for outdoor speakers...indoors well that's another..[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Budget and assigning value is different for everyone, right? If this weren't true we would live in a one model fits all society. I think it's tough to assign dollar amounts to something if you don't know what's available out there to solve your problem. Wouldn't it be wiser to start with the goal and work towards cost from there? For example: Cover XYZ square footage, ABC quality, with PQR loudness. Then see what's possible and then assign a budget based off of that?

Perhaps I'm used to dealing with people who are doing projects and not just shopping for "something" and viewing these things as a commodity. Like, what's the cheapest ketchup, what's the cheapest T shirt, what's the cheapest banana, etc. What's the cheapest speaker (a total luxury good) is a strange way to go about it to me.

How does one know the proper dollar amount without understanding the options and what's available? The OP started with Speakercraft and doesn't like them, so that was a waste of money. He now is going to go out and get the right thing, but that money on the Speakercraft is gone. I think it's relevant to look at products more in line with what he already likes in Sonance (or better).

As far as not investing much in outdoor sound? Oh man, have you had a great outdoor sound demo? When done right it's unbelievable. There's only one boundary to color the sound: ground/floor - and, even then, sats on stakes angled up tend to ignore that. When outside the speakers can be free to perform to their best ability. Again, there are various levels of it and everyone is going to assign value to those levels differently. The biggest thing with outdoor sound that gets expensive is getting even coverage of larger spaces because subs, amplification, etc can drive the cost up just through sheer number of pieces. MSRP wise, around 4-$5,000 outside (4 sats, sub, amp, source, & wire) can sound like a much more expensive inside stereo when designed well - and with large space scale! But, of course, that is not a light investment.... unless compared to a pool, high end decking, outdoor kitchen, etc.

I totally understand budget products and don't just do high end. Heck, I had a guy call me today asking for a complete 9.1 channel theater WITH motorized screen & 4K projector on a budget of $5,000 - he spent $60,000 finishing his basement (his theater cabinetry will end up being more than his speaker system, which is weird to me. But, he is tired of spending - understandably so. I'm trying to pull that off for him, but that is rough! I just think that there's some amazing stuff out there in home audio and investigating what's possible and setting goals is a great way to understand what your budget should be rather than arbitrarily setting a $ amount. If someone is on a super tight budget, those Dayton PE speakers are as good as it gets, IMO. Spending double for another entry level product just doesn't make sense in that scenario. However, much much better is out there in the world of outdoor audio!

Last edited by PrestigeAudio; 03-30-2020 at 07:40 PM.
PrestigeAudio is offline  
post #16 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 06:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
Yea... like the one posting within this thread....jk...lol.
Riiiiight, because the internet direct companies are never going through these threads, responding, advertising, etc. None of them have ever had fake handles on here pretending to be customers just to direct people to their pages and make sales. Sites like this is a MASSIVE boon to them. Without it, they wouldn't be in business. But, guess what, I am A-ok with it. I have nothing against ID companies and want them to do well! I even recommend them from time to time when applicable... like PE (the own Dayton Audio).

ID companies have zero influence on my work life. I just think it's interesting to see people being marketed to when they don't even realize it and then accuse me of the same when I'm just on here talking shop and, you know, giving real life experience and free professional advice. Everyone always thinks I have an angle because they can't understand why someone would care enough to help them for free. But I don't. Full disclosure: When people have reached out to me for help on a project I have helped them with free advice, free project planning, or obtaining product. But, I don't personally outwardly solicit business from anyone on here and will occasionally post a dealer special in that section or unload demo stuff (again, in the appropriate section).

BTW, my name, contact info, nor company name is anywhere to be found on here - and, no, Prestige Audio is NOT my business name. I'm not here fishing for business, lol. I still enjoy the A/V hobby and like speaking with consumers and helping where I can. Can't say the same for these ID sponsor and banner ads all over my screen and ID company reps popping into threads.... those are definitely people trying to get your money.
PrestigeAudio is offline  
post #17 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 07:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,027
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1279 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post

...

The OP started with Atrium and doesn't like them, so that was a waste of money. He now is going to go out and get the right thing, but that money on the Atriums is gone. ...
Well actually, I think the OP was asking about or for opinions or experience with the Atriums with regards to both sound quality and exposure to the elements. At least that's the way I read it.

He for sure has not said that he does not like them and there's no indication that he's ever owned them. At least, that's how I read the OP's verbiage.
Zorba922 and Billy p like this.
b curry is online now  
post #18 of 33 Old 03-30-2020, 07:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeAudio View Post

...

The OP started with Atrium and doesn't like them, so that was a waste of money. He now is going to go out and get the right thing, but that money on the Atriums is gone. ...
Well actually, I think the OP was asking about or for opinions or experience with the Atriums with regards to both sound quality and exposure to the elements. At least that's the way I read it.

He for sure has not said that he does not like them and there's no indication that he's ever owned them. At least, that's how I read the OP's verbiage.
You are absolutely 100% correct. I saw Atrium and forgot he mentioned Speakercraft being crap. Honest mistake, but the sentiment remains the same. I will edit that.

I would consider Polk & Speakercraft to be similar grade products in general. His Sonance which he likes, would be above both of them them (generally speaking) and priced more in line with the Revel product.
PrestigeAudio is offline  
post #19 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cpotter638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
More details about our project:

1) Drawing of our outdoor area is attached. Red blocks are Sonance speakers on covered patio. Blue blocks are existing Speakercraft speakers staked in landscaping bed.
2) Our home is run by a Control4 system.
3) Audio in home is powered with Control4 with 3 separate Sonance 1230 amplifiers. We have 6 zones of the Sonance amps dedicated to the patio and pool area.
4) We have outdoor rated speaker cable run to each of the 6 outdoor speakers.
5) Some have suggested the possibility of adding an outdoor sub. I have also thought about this, but don't know if the wiring we have is sufficient. Adding more would be difficult. Also, I assume I would then need a separate dedicated amp to power outside area?

Thanks. Chad
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Patio and Pool Deck.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	417.8 KB
ID:	2704296  
cpotter638 is offline  
post #20 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cpotter638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Placing speakers in a mulch bed almost guarantees that their sound will be unsatisfying. Outdoor speakers benefit greatly by the reinforcement of surfaces. The more reinforcement, the less power you have to throw at them to get an equivalent apparent volume level. So, in the bed situation, you need to have better speakers than those you would use against a wall and additional power to drive them to those levels.
Depending on speaker type, we could set speaker on a paver situated in mulch. Would this improve performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
You could double the number of speakers, to reduce the strain on each.
Would be difficult to wire for additional speakers.
cpotter638 is offline  
post #21 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cpotter638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
I can make a basic recommendation for you. This is essentially going blind without specific dimensions or a drawing or anything to go off of....

- You absolutely CAN put speakers in your mulch and plant life around your property without issue.

- In my experience, I think Revel or NEAR (more expensive) make the best surface mount outdoor speakers. Personally, I like the Revel (I use these in my own home), but if you have to put these things far way from you, when powered properly, the NEAR surface mount stuff can melt your face off from 100 yards+ WITH some bass without breaking a sweat. I have a client on a golf course who demanded loud and ultra high quality from surface mount speakers on his $2,000,000 garage.... the NEAR LB8T (T is for 70volt - no T is 8ohm. I used these with a Crown CDI amp so I used the T model, but sound quality is the same) did it..... all the way across the fairway.

REVEL (M55XC or M80XC) https://www.revelspeakers.com/produc...treme-climate/

NEAR http://www.nearspeakers.com/bracket-...lb-series.html

HOWEVER, I think the Revel sounds better for what I would call "normal" distances and for far less money. Revel has 2 sizes, the 8" obviously has better bass, but the 5 1/4" may be fine depending on... again, this is outside... distance and volume level. These are spectacular sounding. And, YES, I am familiar with the Sonance outdoor lines and have used them all from the basic stuff to a $12,000 sub sat system with 12 sats & 2 12" direct burial subs. I have used Sonance plenty. The Revel product is in a different league of quality completely, but priced similarly. I agree with you that Polk Atrum is junk. Buy Dayton Audio from Parts Express if you are on a lower budget. Those are nicer than the Polks for sure.

^ If setting into mulch and completely exposed, the Revel uses the same enclosure and mounting system from JBL's "Control" outdoor commercial speaker line that's used in amusement parks, etc. It has screw down terminations and a boot/plate cover to keep things dry. I've had these in many types of environments in mulch, rock, around lakes, creeks, etc and never a service call. NEAR, owned by Bogen, also has this commercial style connectors.

^ Plus, Revel usually has specials on outdoor sound this time of year, so a dealer should be able to help you on the money side of it. MSRP on the M80XC is $900/pair & the M5XC5 $600/pair, so less than that should be easy.
Just to be clear - Are you talking about placing Revel M80XC or M5XC5 in mulch bed? Can these speakers be placed in direct elements / rain in an uncovered location?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Klipsch has some really sharp landscape stuff and also runs deals for dealers this time of year. You could do 2 or 4 of the Pro650 and the Pro10SW sub and have a really really killer little rig out there. https://www.klipsch.com/custom-insta...door/landscape
What ballpark price are we talking for Pro650 and Pro10SW?

Can the Pro10SW run off of my exisiting Sonance 1230 Amp?
cpotter638 is offline  
post #22 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
cpotter638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I'd look into these---free return shipping is a big plus:
https://rslspeakers.com/products/rsl-outsider-ii/
How is sound quality relative to the Sonance? Can be placed in an uncovered location?
cpotter638 is offline  
post #23 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 08:46 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
DC Gold

Look up DC Gold on the interweb. I have a couple of their N9.5s and absolutely love them. Super efficient and I cant say how much I like the sound of them.

But they are stupid expensive, I picked mine up on a clearance sale from another website years ago.

All that being said, they are weather proof, and the powder coated grills hold up for years in the sun and rain.

LionelC
Lionel Chateliet is offline  
post #24 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 09:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Zorba922's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,024
Mentioned: 301 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9170 Post(s)
Liked: 7031
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotter638 View Post
How is sound quality relative to the Sonance? Can be placed in an uncovered location?
I would email RSL and ask them directly. They are known to be quite honest and helpful.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
Zorba922 is offline  
post #25 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 09:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Elihawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 6,371
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2103 Post(s)
Liked: 2276
I had a set of Polk Atriums (4s, I think) and they were a little too bright and weren't capable of much volume. No surprise, 4 inch drivers. I currently have a set of Kef Ventura 6 speaker, which I bought at the same time as a Def Tech AW6500 and I returned the Def Tech. The Kef Ventura were just better and are very good, pretty efficient and have held up for 4 years now (I take them inside during cold Iowa winters, but everything I have read says you don't need to). I got mine pair for $299.00 from Acc4less about 4 years ago
https://www.audioholics.com/outdoor-...oor-conclusion
Order now and you can get them even cheaper than I did (One pair left)
https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...te-pair/1.html

Set up #1: EMP e5Ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, SVS NSD SB12 sub, Integra AV receiver
Set up #2: Def Tech CA Aero 2, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and EMPtek10i10i sub, Slimline AV receiver
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only, Integra AV receiver
Elihawk is offline  
post #26 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 10:00 AM
Member
 
moodysj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 33
I have the following outside under my covered patio. Have had pool parties with lots of background noise and these come through and always sound great. They are also my surround speakers in my home theater. Great sound and a great value. About $80 per pair



Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

Last edited by moodysj; 04-01-2020 at 10:09 AM.
moodysj is offline  
post #27 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 10:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Billy p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 2,009
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 905
Not sure who does any critical listening outdoors. You don't need to spend exponentially ($$$)to get what you're looking for outdoors....any decent speaker designed for the outdoors use will suffice...in my experience...sound travels better over broader area outdoors...even at low volume....but respectfully I don't know your listening habits or how loud is loud. Any of the suggested speakers discuss here should be fine.
Zorba922 and smithsabom like this.

Ascend Acoustics: Towers, STC w RAAL & 200 SE in espresso,
65" LG OLED C9, Anthem MRX 300, Oppo 103D,
Sub: Funk Audio 18: (Santos Rosewood)
Indian proverb: We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors but we borrow it from our children!
Billy p is offline  
post #28 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 12:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 8,408
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3486 Post(s)
Liked: 3297
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotter638 View Post
Depending on speaker type, we could set speaker on a paver situated in mulch. Would this improve performance?



Would be difficult to wire for additional speakers.
Maybe slightly, but not enough to overcome your situation. Seems to me you need better quality speakers for that placement, ones that are able to produce louder volumes than your current speakers, without distortion. Once you have selected the speakers, then look at having ample power to drive them to the levels you want.

Ain't gonna be cheap. That said, I guess you could try the OSD option first and just send them back if they don't work.

I don't think that Klipsch quote was from me. I have not recommended Klipsch once in all the time I've been here.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 04-01-2020 at 12:42 PM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #29 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 06:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,027
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1279 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpotter638 View Post
More details about our project:

1) Drawing of our outdoor area is attached. Red blocks are Sonance speakers on covered patio. Blue blocks are existing Speakercraft speakers staked in landscaping bed.
2) Our home is run by a Control4 system.
3) Audio in home is powered with Control4 with 3 separate Sonance 1230 amplifiers. We have 6 zones of the Sonance amps dedicated to the patio and pool area.
4) We have outdoor rated speaker cable run to each of the 6 outdoor speakers.
5) Some have suggested the possibility of adding an outdoor sub. I have also thought about this, but don't know if the wiring we have is sufficient. Adding more would be difficult. Also, I assume I would then need a separate dedicated amp to power outside area?

Thanks. Chad
If you like your Sonance Mariner 62's, I'd take a hard look at the Electro-Voice ZX1i-100. I linked to the ZX1i-90 in the earlier post but the ZX1i-100 has a shorter throw and wider dispersion pattern. The ZX1i-100's are capable of higher output levels than your Mariner 62's. They are also designed to work in arrays as well as stand alone units. I would start with two as each speaker is designed to cover 31 feet at a 13 foot distance from the speaker. They are also capable of 111dB SPL at 13 feet so they are going to be plenty loud. Four of them should knock your socks off based on the coverage area from your drawing. Again, they're built for continuous outdoor use.

Frequency response is (-3 dB) 60 Hz - 20 kHz and (-10 dB) 40 Hz - 20 kHz Sensitivity is 92 dB (1W/1m) so your Sonance SONAMP 1230 should have no trouble powering them.

I would use a treated 4x4 in ground and mount the EV's 2-3 feet off the ground.

https://www.electrovoice.com/binary/...00_EDS_v05.PDF
b curry is online now  
post #30 of 33 Old 04-01-2020, 06:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked: 214
Sonance. Done.
Vikram Iyengar is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off