Center speaker to pair with ADS L1590? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 05-10-2020, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Center speaker to pair with ADS L1590?

Hello all,

I am new to AVS Forums and this is my first post.

My Setup:
Amplifier: Denon AVR-3805 and AVR-1610
Speakers:
FR/FL: ADS L1590
C: JBL Northridge N Center
SLA/SRA: JBL L20T
SRB/SRB: ADS L620

FL-L1590 C-JBL_N-CENTER FR-L1590

SLA-JBL SRA-JBL

SLB-L620 SRB-L620

I bought the ADS and JBL speakers from a co-worker about 10 years ago and have been using them in a small theater room at my house. From my perspective, the ADS sound great for movies and music. One area of concern is the center speaker, I constantly find myself turning up the volume during vocal-only scenes. I need some help in figuring out which center speaker would match well with my front towers?

Could you please give me some advice regarding the center speaker and subwoofer options? I am also thinking about upgrading to Denon AVR-S750H.

Any ideas or recommendations.

Thanks
Asad
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post #2 of 42 Old 05-10-2020, 04:44 PM
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$?
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post #3 of 42 Old 05-10-2020, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axhasan5 View Post
From my perspective, the ADS sound great for movies and music. One area of concern is the center speaker, I constantly find myself turning up the volume during vocal-only scenes. I need some help in figuring out which center speaker would match well with my front towers?

Could you please give me some advice regarding the center speaker and subwoofer options? I am also thinking about upgrading to Denon AVR-S750H.
I would hold off on the receiver upgrade until you get the sub and center sorted out. The receiver makes diddly difference in comparison.

First off, there's no such thing as "matching" a center to the L/R speakers unless you lose an identical speaker as the L/R, in vertical alignment. And the actual relevance of "timbre matching" is debatable to begin with when it comes to HT.

There are any number of very competent centers that will give you effortless voice clarity, from $250-400.

A good sub starts at $500-600.

So, what is total budget at the moment?

And are you in the US or Canada? Location = pricing options.
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post #4 of 42 Old 05-10-2020, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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$?
$300-400 for center and $400-500 for a sub.
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post #5 of 42 Old 05-10-2020, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I would hold off on the receiver upgrade until you get the sub and center sorted out. The receiver makes diddly difference in comparison.

First off, there's no such thing as "matching" a center to the L/R speakers unless you lose an identical speaker as the L/R, in vertical alignment. And the actual relevance of "timbre matching" is debatable to begin with when it comes to HT.

There are any number of very competent centers that will give you effortless voice clarity, from $250-400.

A good sub starts at $500-600.

So, what is total budget at the moment?

And are you in the US or Canada? Location = pricing options.
Thanks for your feedback. I am in the US, my total budget is about $1000, would prefer to get two subs if possible (maybe one now and other later). Please let me know your thoughts.
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post #6 of 42 Old 05-10-2020, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by axhasan5 View Post
Thanks for your feedback. I am in the US, my total budget is about $1000, would prefer to get two subs if possible (maybe one now and other later). Please let me know your thoughts.
I'd get the Hsu VTF-2 sub for $600 shipped.

Some proven-performer horizontal centers in the $250-400 range, which most people are quite happy with:
* Emotiva C1 or C2
* Chane A2.4
* Ascend 340SE
* Hsu CCB-8 (coaxial design, so can be used vertically or horizontally)
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post #7 of 42 Old 05-10-2020, 09:47 PM
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The center speaker is not the whole story. There are several receivers with a dialogue enhancement circuit. Primarily found on some of the upper tier Denon and I think 1 or 2 of the Marantz receivers. Another tip, try to get a 3 way center speaker.
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post #8 of 42 Old 05-11-2020, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I'd get the Hsu VTF-2 sub for $600 shipped.

Some proven-performer horizontal centers in the $250-400 range, which most people are quite happy with:
* Emotiva C1 or C2
* Chane A2.4
* Ascend 340SE
* Hsu CCB-8 (coaxial design, so can be used vertically or horizontally)
Ascend 340SEs seems like a good choice. I may try them for 30 days and see how they sound in my room.
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post #9 of 42 Old 05-11-2020, 05:43 AM
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I'll also mention the Monolith THX-365C 3-way center, which is $400, but often on sale for $350.

Interestingly, it is a sealed design and uses a dome midrange, both like your ADS L1590.

As a side question, have your L1590 had any crossover or driver work?

They were the TOTL towers from ADS from the 80's, IIRC, but they might be able to use some refreshing. There is a guy in AZ who is "The Man" when it comes to ADS speaker refreshing.

-
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I'll also mention the Monolith THX-365C 3-way center, which is $400, but often on sale for $350.

Interestingly, it is a sealed design and uses a dome midrange, both like your ADS L1590.

As a side question, have your L1590 had any crossover or driver work?

They were the TOTL towers from ADS from the 80's, IIRC, but they might be able to use some refreshing. There is a guy in AZ who is "The Man" when it comes to ADS speaker refreshing.

-
I will check out the Monolith as well. Amazon has them for $381 right now. Regarding L1590s, I have not done any work on these. How can I tell if some work is required?
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Also can you guys recommend a good stand for center speaker? I plan to put this in front of a projector screen.
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post #12 of 42 Old 05-11-2020, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axhasan5 View Post
I will check out the Monolith as well. Amazon has them for $381 right now. Regarding L1590s, I have not done any work on these. How can I tell if some work is required?
If all the drivers are working properly and you never hear any issues with them, they I would not worry about them.

Any electrolytic capacitors in your crossovers are pushing 35 years old, assuming they are stock. Electrolytics are known to drift in value over time, although I believe ADS used higher grade caps than typical.

If you are handy with a soldering iron, you can replace them yourself, if so inclined. If you plan to keep using these speakers for the long term, might be worth considering.

I've re-capped 4 or 5 pair of older speakers. In a couple of them, re-capping seemed to "bring them back to life" in the mids and highs - more detailed and energetic/lively sound.

-
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post #13 of 42 Old 05-11-2020, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by axhasan5 View Post
Also can you guys recommend a good stand for center speaker? I plan to put this in front of a projector screen.
How far from the ground will the screen's bottom edge be?
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How far from the ground will the screen's bottom edge be?
28 inches.
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If all the drivers are working properly and you never hear any issues with them, they I would not worry about them.

If you are handy with a soldering iron, you can replace them yourself, if so inclined. If you plan to keep using these speakers for the long term, might be worth considering.

-
I would be a dangerous handy man if I tried doing it myself. . They still sound great but I will keep your feedback in mind for future.
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post #16 of 42 Old 05-11-2020, 11:06 AM
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28 inches.
You'd probably want something around 18-20" --- you easily improvise something, use a pair of 18" normal stands right next to each other, or choose from here:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=center+sp...f=nb_sb_noss_1
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I'd get the Hsu VTF-2 sub for $600 shipped.
What do you think about the SVS PB-1000? Was leaning towards something I could get from Amazon to avoid the shipping cost. If I do go with VTF-2, do you see any issues with Denon AVR-1610? BTW, my room size is 20 x 14.
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What do you think about the SVS PB-1000? Was leaning towards something I could get from Amazon to avoid the shipping cost. If I do go with VTF-2, do you see any issues with Denon AVR-1610? BTW, my room size is 20 x 14.
PB1000 costs $500 shipped from both Amazon and SVS...however, ordering from SVS gives you their full free return and future upgrade credit policy which is nice.

However, both the Hsu VTF-2 and Monolith 10" THX are better subs than the PB1000. Browse/search or post in the Subwoofers forum, those comparisons have been much discussed there already.

Choice of receiver has zero to do with choice of sub(s) since the subs are using their own amps, all the receiver does is send the LFE signal to the sub(s).
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PB1000 costs $500 shipped from both Amazon and SVS...however, ordering from SVS gives you their full free return and future upgrade credit policy which is nice.

However, both the Hsu VTF-2 and Monolith 10" THX are better subs than the PB1000. Browse/search or post in the Subwoofers forum, those comparisons have been much discussed there already.

Choice of receiver has zero to do with choice of sub(s) since the subs are using their own amps, all the receiver does is send the LFE signal to the sub(s).
I will keep using the AVR-1610 for now.

Pulled the trigger on VTF-2 MK5 and CMT-340 SE Center. Will let you know how it goes but looking forward to them . Thanks for your quick response, recommendations and feedback. I really appreciate it.
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I will keep using the AVR-1610 for now.

Pulled the trigger on VTF-2 MK5 and CMT-340 SE Center. Will let you know how it goes but looking forward to them . Thanks for your quick response, recommendations and feedback. I really appreciate it.
You're very welcome...am looking forward to reading about your impressions of both. Enjoy!
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You're very welcome...am looking forward to reading about your impressions of both. Enjoy!
Hello,

I wanted to provide an update.

Ascend CMT340SE has not arrived yet as Ascend is waiting on the woofers from a supplier (2-3 week delay).

I did receive VTF-2 MK5 about a 10 days ago and did not have the time to hook it up until couple of days ago. I connected to my Denon AVR, ran the Denon Audssey program with four listening locations within my room. Attached pictures are from the back of MK5 as well as the Denon setup screen. I am getting more bass from the FL/FR and less from the MK5.

Prior to Audyssey, I had a manual setup with all speakers as small w/Subwoofer but Audssey changed it. I assume it is smarter. Could you please review my settings and recommend any adjustments as I might have something way off.

Thanks
Asad
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Prior to Audyssey, I had a manual setup with all speakers as small w/Subwoofer but Audssey changed it. I assume it is smarter.
Actually, that's a very bad assumption.

People (especially salespeople) love to hype up the wonders of Audyssey, but actual user experience as reported on this forum points more towards a hit-and-miss pattern: half the time it works, half the time it screws things up and people wrongly blame the speakers.

So, my advice is, always use Audyseey (and all similar auto-calibration tools) as a STARTING POINT only. Play around with different settings, and pick whatever consistently sounds better to YOUR ears.

I'd start with having all speakers set on "Small" with an 80Hz crossover, then play and tweak from there.

Regarding your sub, you'll have to read your owner's manual thoroughly and also experiment with various settings.

Most importantly: don't forget to experiment with different POSITIONING options for both your speakers *and* sub. In fact, positioning often makes a much more significant difference than any electronic settings, in my experience.
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Actually, that's a very bad assumption.

So, my advice is, always use Audyseey (and all similar auto-calibration tools) as a STARTING POINT only. Play around with different settings, and pick whatever consistently sounds better to YOUR ears.

I'd start with having all speakers set on "Small" with an 80Hz crossover, then play and tweak from there.

Regarding your sub, you'll have to read your owner's manual thoroughly and also experiment with various settings.

Most importantly: don't forget to experiment with different POSITIONING options for both your speakers *and* sub. In fact, positioning often makes a much more significant difference than any electronic settings, in my experience.
Yes, I will review the manual and checkout other threads as well. Denon receiver was also playing everything in 2 channel with direct mode. I investigated further and it turned out that my Roku4 was in "Night Mode". I disabled it, wow what a huge difference in bass. My son came down stairs to see what happened.

I still plan to set them small and change other settings to see what sounds good. Currently the Sub is under the projection screen but will experiment with it in different locations in the room (I initially bought a long cable but returned it because I like all of the cables to be neat and clean at the receiver.). No worries, will get longer cable. .

One other question, what do you think about Ascend CBM170 SE for Rear and Side surround. My rear surrounds are very large (ADS L620) and taking up too much space. Ascend has these in B stock at $248 a pair. According to Ascend, the issue is with the grill in one corner.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merch...ry_Code=BSTOCK

Thanks
Asad
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One other question, what do you think about Ascend CBM170 SE for Rear and Side surround. My rear surrounds are very large (ADS L620) and taking up too much space. Ascend has these in B stock at $248 a pair. According to Ascend, the issue is with the grill in one corner.
They would be excellent. Probably over-achieving, in fact.

If you need flush wall-mounting, the 200SE would be a better option due to its sealed cabinet; the 170SE is rear ported.
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post #25 of 42 Old 05-27-2020, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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They would be excellent. Probably over-achieving, in fact.

If you need flush wall-mounting, the 200SE would be a better option due to its sealed cabinet; the 170SE is rear ported.
Thanks for your feedback. Ascend representative advised using these to wall mount 170SE.

https://www.omnimount.com/products/s...series/15.0_w/
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Ascend representative advised using these to wall mount 170SE.
https://www.omnimount.com/products/s...series/15.0_w/
Ah, with those mounts the 170s would have at least 6" of rear clearance, and they'd be crossed over at 80hz anyway, so you'd be all set. Go for it! I think you'll be very pleased.
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post #27 of 42 Old 05-28-2020, 11:24 AM
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Pic #1 : You have the sub's internal crossover set at 45Hz. Crank it all the way to the right.

Pic #2 : Set all speakers to "Small".
Pic #3 : Set the LPF for LFE to 120Hz.
Pic #4 : Set the crossovers to 80Hz (to start).
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post #28 of 42 Old 05-28-2020, 12:17 PM
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Building on sigpig's last post, if the sub's crossover switch is set to "Out", it should bypass the internal crossover and the crossover frequency knob will not be in play.

Also is your sub's phase switch set to "0"?

Also, many like to bump the sub level a few to several dB post Audyssey. It's recommended that your sub level should be in the negative dB range regardless of where you ultimately set the level.

Another improvement might be achieved by performing the Sub Distance Tweak to create a better L/R (or C) blend with the sub at the crossover point.

I've done this in 2 different systems and gained several dB at the crossover point in both systems.

Post #9 here describes this:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...libration.html

-
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5.1 and 2.0 ch: Marantz AV7704/Emotiva DC-1/Rotel RB-1582 MKII/Audiosource Amp Three x 2/Polk LS90, CS400i, FX500i/Outlaw X-12, LFM-1/JVD DLA-HD250/Da-Lite 100" HCCV/Sony ES BDP/Sonos Connect. DC-1/RB-1582 MKII/Sonos Connect also feed Polk 7C in garage and Dayton IO655 on patio. 2.1 ch: Denon AVR-2807/Klipsch Forte I or NHT SB2/JBL SUB 550P x 2. 2.0 ch: Outlaw 975/Outlaw M2200 x 2/Klipsch RF-7 III/Sony ES BDP/LG 65" LED. 2.0 ch: Klipsch Powergate/NHT SB3. Kitchen: Sonos Play5.
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post #29 of 42 Old 05-31-2020, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigpig View Post
Pic #1 : You have the sub's internal crossover set at 45Hz. Crank it all the way to the right.

Pic #2 : Set all speakers to "Small".
Pic #3 : Set the LPF for LFE to 120Hz.
Pic #4 : Set the crossovers to 80Hz (to start).
Thanks for reviewing the pics and recommendations. I changed all speakers to small and made LPF/LFE/Crossover adjustments. Bass is very tight and I am very happy . Played around with the EQ1/EQ2 settings and EQ2 with one port open sounds good to my ears.
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post #30 of 42 Old 05-31-2020, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam2434 View Post
Building on sigpig's last post, if the sub's crossover switch is set to "Out", it should bypass the internal crossover and the crossover frequency knob will not be in play.

Also is your sub's phase switch set to "0"?

Also, many like to bump the sub level a few to several dB post Audyssey. It's recommended that your sub level should be in the negative dB range regardless of where you ultimately set the level.

Another improvement might be achieved by performing the Sub Distance Tweak to create a better L/R (or C) blend with the sub at the crossover point.

I've done this in 2 different systems and gained several dB at the crossover point in both systems.

Post #9 here describes this:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...libration.html

-
I finally read the manual and you are correct, Sub's internal crossover does not come into play if using OUT setting on the Sub. Phase was not set to 0 but its set to 0 now. I also changed the Sub db from -12db to -9 but didnt have too much time to listen for results.

Thanks for sending the Sub Distance Tweak. I will review that thread as well.
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