Atmos heights, oh good grief... - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 57 Old 05-16-2020, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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It looks like I've got several good options, that's excellent and of course thank you as always for the help. I think I'll make some basic cardboard cutouts to see how far the speakers would project. I'm really only concerned about how far down they will be when angled.

I'm in the process of building a new computer strictly for the theater and the parts should all arrive by the end of next week. The old computer I was using decided to throw a fit with the old Win 7 OS so I thought well screw it, just build a new one with better parts. I say all of that because my ability to run REW will be down for a little bit so my tuning-in phase is temporarily on hold. I think it wise to run some REW sweeps and potentially move the fronts back/forward, which of course would affect where the MLP is located.

Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with. Yes its sideways but it was the only way I could show you everything. The Studio 530 you see on the right hand side is how the sides will be situated regarding distance from the side wall. My position of the pilot holes are spot on as far as their distance to the side walls are as well. I think I will end up actually using those holes and mount speaker connectors there. That way there's no splicing and I'll need something up there anyway. Shouldn't look too bad, really. I have plenty of Sewell banana plugs and 12-gauge wire to make the runs from there to the speakers a perfect length. This is strictly a front-to-back positioning situation for the heights.
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post #32 of 57 Old 05-16-2020, 06:40 AM
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How about some of those Kef on-wall speakers like T101's?
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post #33 of 57 Old 05-16-2020, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Good idea about the KEF's, I didn't know such a thin speaker even existed! Another great option but they are pretty expensive for heights.
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post #34 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 07:58 AM
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Good idea about the KEF's, I didn't know such a thin speaker even existed! Another great option but they are pretty expensive for heights.

Another Kef option is the shallow depth speakers. Ci160TR's. They only need about 1.4 inches from the surface.


What kind of ducting do you have there? Rigid or Flex? How far is it from the sheetrock?
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post #35 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Another Kef option is the shallow depth speakers. Ci160TR's. They only need about 1.4 inches from the surface.


What kind of ducting do you have there? Rigid or Flex? How far is it from the sheetrock?
It is 1/2" sheetrock. Metal duct. I believe the duct work to be about 2-3 inches above the ceiling. I don't think it is any higher than that. I saw it when we were building out the room but after pouring over the pictures I don't have a clear shot of it and I question my memory this long after I closed it up. The other problem as I've just measured with a stud finder, is that there is a joist and a crazy network of blocking running (no clue what the builders were doing up there) right across where the rear heights would be. I think I'm going to be left with having to ceiling mount. I could drill a ton of pilot holes and might not be any closer to knowing whether or not I can fit a ceiling speaker up there.
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post #36 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 02:08 PM
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That looks like a very strong option. I wonder though how they would sound on their side? Of course they aren't designed for that but I'm not sure it would make that big of a difference in a height application. Any thoughts? The reason I ask is because I'm going to try to keep the heights as tight to the ceiling as possible. Mounting with the longest dimension of any of the speakers parallel to the floor is going to be preferable.
The Control-X's look like my N24's (which are all-weather as well). And I had to order the Control-X mounting kit for my N24's.
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post #37 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Polk S10

Looking at the Polk S10 there's a large plastic piece on the back of it that seems to serve no purpose except to contain the keyhole slot. Does anyone know if it is removable? Having it removed would make it easier to mount as a height speaker should I go that direction.
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post #38 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 03:35 PM
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Looking at the Polk S10 there's a large plastic piece on the back of it that seems to serve no purpose except to contain the keyhole slot. Does anyone know if it is removable? Having it removed would make it easier to mount as a height speaker should I go that direction.
That *could* be what's holding the driver in place.

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post #39 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah well then I guess it might be frowned upon to remove!
It looks like a big heat sink although I know its not.
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post #40 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Just found a pic on Amazon, the piece on the back is part of their "Power Port." As such I doubt it can be removed.
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post #41 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 08:57 PM
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Gary, if you have to ceiling-mount your speakers, maybe give a thought to outdoor speakers. RSL, Plok, PSB, etc all make pretty darned good speakers that just happen to inhabit a weather-resistant cabinet.
The good thing about these is that they have their own mounting brackets: https://rslspeakers.com/rsl-outsider-ii-lp/
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post #42 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 09:02 PM
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Another option could be PSB Alpha P3: https://www.psbspeakers.com/product/...shelf-speaker/ - looks like you can screw mount something into the back

even lighter than the Polk S10, too.
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post #43 of 57 Old 05-17-2020, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
Another option could be PSB Alpha P3: https://www.psbspeakers.com/product/...shelf-speaker/ - looks like you can screw mount something into the back

even lighter than the Polk S10, too.
I use these, and you can, since I did... lol

They actually have mini pilot holes so you don't have to worry about screwing into the crossover.
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post #44 of 57 Old 05-18-2020, 07:57 AM
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I think you want to take into account the speaker coverage angle. You may be better off using an in-celing speaker by creating a little wart of drywall or a frame on the ceiling to give you enough depth and cavity for the speaker.


I suppose you have given up on the idea of upfiring Atmos speakers? You have a nice smooth ceiling that should reflect in a predicable way.
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post #45 of 57 Old 05-18-2020, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
Looking at the Polk S10 there's a large plastic piece on the back of it that seems to serve no purpose except to contain the keyhole slot. Does anyone know if it is removable? Having it removed would make it easier to mount as a height speaker should I go that direction.
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That *could* be what's holding the driver in place.
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Ah well then I guess it might be frowned upon to remove!
It looks like a big heat sink although I know its not.
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Just found a pic on Amazon, the piece on the back is part of their "Power Port." As such I doubt it can be removed.



I had come across this video a few weeks ago when I was demoing the S20 in my home theater. Very interesting regarding the back rear port plate.



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post #46 of 57 Old 05-18-2020, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you want to take into account the speaker coverage angle. You may be better off using an in-celing speaker by creating a little wart of drywall or a frame on the ceiling to give you enough depth and cavity for the speaker.


I suppose you have given up on the idea of upfiring Atmos speakers? You have a nice smooth ceiling that should reflect in a predicable way.
I did think about upfiring modules but I am still of the belief that a direct firing speaker is going to outperform an upfiring unit. Good suggestion though, of course.
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post #47 of 57 Old 05-18-2020, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Another option could be PSB Alpha P3: https://www.psbspeakers.com/product/...shelf-speaker/ - looks like you can screw mount something into the back

even lighter than the Polk S10, too.
Some of the speakers, including those PSB Alpha P3's have waveguides. I wonder how much it would impact sound in a horizontal ceiling mount location?

I think it goes without saying that I'm probably overthinking the CRAP out of this. In my own defense though I've come so far I need to make sure I'm making the best decision.
It really comes down to timbre matching. If anyone has any additional input on that aspect of the search it would be greatly appreciated.
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post #48 of 57 Old 05-18-2020, 06:46 PM
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It really comes down to timbre matching. If anyone has any additional input on that aspect of the search it would be greatly appreciated.
I would not really be all that concerned with timbre matching Atmos. So little information actually gets passed through those speakers that it can be literally any speaker.

And as someone who is currently in transition with my own HT - I have a KEF Q650c as my CC running alongside the Polk mains, and I've not noticed a lick of difference unless, of course, they're voiced identically... which I doubt.
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post #49 of 57 Old 05-18-2020, 06:46 PM
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I did think about upfiring modules but I am still of the belief that a direct firing speaker is going to outperform an upfiring unit. Good suggestion though, of course.

Maybe, but even Dolby suggests up firing speakers can sound better in a smaller room or a room without high ceilings. Rather than reinvent the wheel here I found another thread that discusses it. There are a couple of interesting posts from @RayGuy and @SuperFist .



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post59542528
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post #50 of 57 Old 05-18-2020, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I would not really be all that concerned with timbre matching Atmos. So little information actually gets passed through those speakers that it can be literally any speaker.

And as someone who is currently in transition with my own HT - I have a KEF Q650c as my CC running alongside the Polk mains, and I've not noticed a lick of difference unless, of course, they're voiced identically... which I doubt.
Good points, of course. If I don't concern myself with timbre matching it would go to the smallest contender, which I think would be the NHT Superzero.

Using an upfiring module would make wiring difficult. I'd have to open some of the side walls again, what a mess that would be.
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post #51 of 57 Old 05-19-2020, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a question. Let's say I end up going for a speaker that really only plays well to, say, 100 Hz (I'm thinking here of the Superzeros, they are rated to 85 on the website but I'm not sure I believe that). I would think I'd want to cross them over at around 100 Hz. If I do so, then where do the frequencies between 100 and the standard crossover at 80 go for the heights? It seems there would be a gap that may (or may not) affect things. I don't plan on crossing the subs at anything higher than 80. Or it could be that I'm not thinking this through properly?
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post #52 of 57 Old 05-19-2020, 04:22 PM
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Here's a question. Let's say I end up going for a speaker that really only plays well to, say, 100 Hz (I'm thinking here of the Superzeros, they are rated to 85 on the website but I'm not sure I believe that). I would think I'd want to cross them over at around 100 Hz. If I do so, then where do the frequencies between 100 and the standard crossover at 80 go for the heights? It seems there would be a gap that may (or may not) affect things. I don't plan on crossing the subs at anything higher than 80. Or it could be that I'm not thinking this through properly?
Atmos shouldn't really need to be set at a crossover lower than 120 - 150Hz anyway.
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post #53 of 57 Old 05-19-2020, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Atmos shouldn't really need to be set at a crossover lower than 120 - 150Hz anyway.
Super, I wasn't sure if there was substantial low frequency energy coming from the heights.
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post #54 of 57 Old 05-19-2020, 05:31 PM
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Super, I wasn't sure if there was substantial low frequency energy coming from the heights.
Very little information goes through Atmos speakers - much less than surrounds.

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post #55 of 57 Old 05-19-2020, 06:11 PM
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What about diys speakers? Some decent choices....if one is not opposed to that rout. I'm just asking if you ever thought of it.

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post #56 of 57 Old 05-20-2020, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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What about diys speakers? Some decent choices....if one is not opposed to that rout. I'm just asking if you ever thought of it.
Yes, indeed, and an excellent suggestion. However I'm already knee deep in building twin Devastators, had to fabricate a new top for my TV stand (not wide enough to support the new TV), and just today got the components for the new HTPC. I think I'm going to be all out of motivation to do much of anything else other than enjoy the system and start dialing it in!

However that being said, what would be some extra small options for a ceiling mount application?
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post #57 of 57 Old 05-20-2020, 05:06 PM
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Outdoor speakers usually come with their own mounting brackets and are ablt to be aimed wherever you want. RSL have some at $200/pr.
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