Looking to get a pair of ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
If Pioneer works like Yamaha, then all the 4 ohm setting does is lower power output to keep the receiver cooler.
I spoke to a Marantz tech rep (not sure how much they know) and the insisted you turn on the 4 ohm setting if I get ohm speakers.

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #32 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I spoke to both tech from Elac and Marantz both said the SR5012 can handle a full set of ELAC Uni-fi surround system. Soooooo....I just got the Fronts and Center. All 3 for a little under 1k. Too good of a deal to pass on.

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #33 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
I spoke to a Marantz tech rep (not sure how much they know) and the insisted you turn on the 4 ohm setting if I get ohm speakers.

Of course they do. They don't want to warranty anything.

I'm not bashing Marantz as I still think they make some of the best mid-fi AVR's. I have one.
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post #34 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
I spoke to both tech from Elac and Marantz both said the SR5012 can handle a full set of ELAC Uni-fi surround system. Soooooo....I just got the Fronts and Center. All 3 for a little under 1k. Too good of a deal to pass on.
Just like I suspected. Let us know how you like the system once it's all up and running.

At the end of the day if you feel you like the sound, volume level, dynamics..etc that's all that matters.



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4k-Blu Ray: Sony UBP x800 - PS3 - oppo 103 Amp and power : Pioneer elite SC - 27 - Monster Power AVS 2000 Reference - DT BP 30s- 10s - citation 5.1
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post #35 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Just like I suspected. Let us know how you like the system once it's all up and running.

At the end of the day if you feel you like the sound, volume level, dynamics..etc that's all that matters.



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Well now I need to get a new sub to go with it. What Frequency response do you think I should be looking for?

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #36 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 07:59 PM
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Well now I need to get a new sub to go with it. What Frequency response do you think I should be looking for?

Id go with a rythmik audio l 12 for $559


http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html
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post #37 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 08:09 PM
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Well now I need to get a new sub to go with it. What Frequency response do you think I should be looking for?
Well since you are in the candy store....lol...

It depends if you want to go for the grand slam.

What's the budget? Like the gentleman above stated the Rythmik subs I have heard really good things and they are somewhat budget friendly in regard to what you get for the money.

Rythmik, SVS , PSA, JTR all very well documented companies for Subwoofers and speakers.

I have the JTR 118HT and that is way more than I expected. It may be Cliche but ported subs seem to work well with Home theater and sealed seams to still be great for Movies and for music. However the gap between the 2 are a lot closer based on the companies I mentioned.

I may be moving on to a smaller sealed sub for music and Home theater duties. I didnt believe it until I brought it home, but a reference subwoofer makes a huge difference in a system and by a pretty good margin. Do some research and read some reviews.

We have a lot of folks in these forums with. Lot more experience then me and I'm sure some others can chime in.

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post #38 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
If Pioneer works like Yamaha, then all the 4 ohm setting does is lower power output to keep the receiver cooler.
I’m sure that’s what it is, but I got used to the lower volume. Thinking about getting an Infinity fan. Will it make a difference?

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post #39 of 56 Old 05-19-2020, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I’m sure that’s what it is, but I got used to the lower volume. Thinking about getting an Infinity fan. Will it make a difference?
I have one and it amazing.

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #40 of 56 Old 05-23-2020, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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So I just got this email from Marantz tech support about the same questions I posted here.. and here is what they said. Please let me know if what he says make sense.

I wouldn't recommend pairing those speakers with this unit. The ELAC Uni-fi UF5 are rated with a recommended power rating of 40W - 140W, with a peak power handling rating of 140W.

The SR5012's 4 ohm power spec isn't listed, but the 8 ohm spec is 100W per channel. The 4 ohm spec would be roughly double that (~175-200W).

The SR5012 would very likely overpower your speakers - especially at high volume, especially if a period of peak wattage hits (i.e., loud explosions in movies, etc.) - which could very possibly damage or blow your speakers.

The NR1710 would be a better fit, at 50W @ 8 ohm (so ~80-100W @ 4 ohm).


Up to know I was under the impression I had to worry about the amp. They seem to think I need to worry about the speakers. Also, my AVR is 4 ohms compatible. Cant I just run it in that mode?

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #41 of 56 Old 05-23-2020, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
Man I mean I do like how [Klipsch] sound, but might love how the Elac sound. I wont know until I hear them I guess.
And in case not, a reasonable RETURN POLICY is key. All speakers sound different, but especially from Klipsch to ELAC I'd expect a big difference. Also you will have to turn the volume control up a chunk more with the ELAC which along with low impedance is how they get a lot of bass (https://sites.psu.edu/speakerdesign/...aker-building/

Can your receiver keep up? That depends. Here are "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection":
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
3) The amp and speaker power ratings do not matter. Don’t bother “matching” the amp and speaker power. That is a seemingly sensible yet actually meaningless exercise, because:
- Speaker specifications are 92% useless (and I say that as a loudspeaker engineer).
- Specs for amps are not thorough since they are measured into resistors for pragmatic reasons and speakers are not resistors at all.
- You are less likely to damage speakers with a big amp, since let’s face it everyone cranks it up sometime, and a small cheap amp is then more likely to clip and possibly put out DC and ultrasonics
- Amps' 4 ohm or even 2 ohm rating is the most meaningful even if your speakers are 8 ohms. Should be 20-20k Hz, distortion under 1% or it's baloney. [At least yours mentions 4 ohms.Very few receivers actually even show a 4 ohm rating any more]
- For amps "more" power means (IF specs are comparable) at least three times as much due to the logarithmic nature of hearing.
Now as far as if your amp is big enough, that is another matter. How loud do you want to play (with clean sound)?
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post #42 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
So I just got this email from Marantz tech support about the same questions I posted here.. and here is what they said. Please let me know if what he says make sense.

I wouldn't recommend pairing those speakers with this unit. The ELAC Uni-fi UF5 are rated with a recommended power rating of 40W - 140W, with a peak power handling rating of 140W.

The SR5012's 4 ohm power spec isn't listed, but the 8 ohm spec is 100W per channel. The 4 ohm spec would be roughly double that (~175-200W).

The SR5012 would very likely overpower your speakers - especially at high volume, especially if a period of peak wattage hits (i.e., loud explosions in movies, etc.) - which could very possibly damage or blow your speakers.

The NR1710 would be a better fit, at 50W @ 8 ohm (so ~80-100W @ 4 ohm).


Up to know I was under the impression I had to worry about the amp. They seem to think I need to worry about the speakers. Also, my AVR is 4 ohms compatible. Cant I just run it in that mode?
If you are going to use a subwoofer crossed over at 80Hz, then you don't have any worries about over- or under-driving the UF5s. I'm afraid that the tech is simply blowing smoke you-know-where. Not having any idea of the SR5012 4Ohm rating is laughable. To suggest that a slim-line AVR with 50W/c would be a better match is a joke.
There are a number of people on here that have had no problems driving the UF5 speakers with a modest AVR, and some that use a hefty amp that can handle the low impedance of those speakers.
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post #43 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
And in case not, a reasonable RETURN POLICY is key. All speakers sound different, but especially from Klipsch to ELAC I'd expect a big difference. Also you will have to turn the volume control up a chunk more with the ELAC which along with low impedance is how they get a lot of bass (https://sites.psu.edu/speakerdesign/...aker-building/

Can your receiver keep up? That depends. Here are "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection":
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
3) The amp and speaker power ratings do not matter. Don’t bother “matching” the amp and speaker power. That is a seemingly sensible yet actually meaningless exercise, because:
- Speaker specifications are 92% useless (and I say that as a loudspeaker engineer).
- Specs for amps are not thorough since they are measured into resistors for pragmatic reasons and speakers are not resistors at all.
- You are less likely to damage speakers with a big amp, since let’s face it everyone cranks it up sometime, and a small cheap amp is then more likely to clip and possibly put out DC and ultrasonics
- Amps' 4 ohm or even 2 ohm rating is the most meaningful even if your speakers are 8 ohms. Should be 20-20k Hz, distortion under 1% or it's baloney. [At least yours mentions 4 ohms.Very few receivers actually even show a 4 ohm rating any more]
- For amps "more" power means (IF specs are comparable) at least three times as much due to the logarithmic nature of hearing.
Now as far as if your amp is big enough, that is another matter. How loud do you want to play (with clean sound)?

What do you mean by 11? The volume number? My Marantz goes up to 100. I keep it at 70 roughly.

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #44 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigpig View Post
If you are going to use a subwoofer crossed over at 80Hz, then you don't have any worries about over- or under-driving the UF5s. I'm afraid that the tech is simply blowing smoke you-know-where. Not having any idea of the SR5012 4Ohm rating is laughable. To suggest that a slim-line AVR with 50W/c would be a better match is a joke.
There are a number of people on here that have had no problems driving the UF5 speakers with a modest AVR, and some that use a hefty amp that can handle the low impedance of those speakers.

If I did that, wouldnt defeat the purpose of getting speakers like the Elac Uni-fi?

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #45 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
So I just got this email from Marantz tech support about the same questions I posted here.. and here is what they said. Please let me know if what he says make sense.

I wouldn't recommend pairing those speakers with this unit. The ELAC Uni-fi UF5 are rated with a recommended power rating of 40W - 140W, with a peak power handling rating of 140W.

The SR5012's 4 ohm power spec isn't listed, but the 8 ohm spec is 100W per channel. The 4 ohm spec would be roughly double that (~175-200W).

The SR5012 would very likely overpower your speakers - especially at high volume, especially if a period of peak wattage hits (i.e., loud explosions in movies, etc.) - which could very possibly damage or blow your speakers.

The NR1710 would be a better fit, at 50W @ 8 ohm (so ~80-100W @ 4 ohm).


Up to know I was under the impression I had to worry about the amp. They seem to think I need to worry about the speakers. Also, my AVR is 4 ohms compatible. Cant I just run it in that mode?
I posted in your Marantz post as well, hopefully someone gives you an answer. As I just bought a Marantz SR6012 for a Elac Uni-fi UF5
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post #46 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
So I just got this email from Marantz tech support about the same questions I posted here.. and here is what they said. Please let me know if what he says make sense.

I wouldn't recommend pairing those speakers with this unit. The ELAC Uni-fi UF5 are rated with a recommended power rating of 40W - 140W, with a peak power handling rating of 140W.

The SR5012's 4 ohm power spec isn't listed, but the 8 ohm spec is 100W per channel. The 4 ohm spec would be roughly double that (~175-200W).

The SR5012 would very likely overpower your speakers - especially at high volume, especially if a period of peak wattage hits (i.e., loud explosions in movies, etc.) - which could very possibly damage or blow your speakers.

The NR1710 would be a better fit, at 50W @ 8 ohm (so ~80-100W @ 4 ohm).


Up to know I was under the impression I had to worry about the amp. They seem to think I need to worry about the speakers. Also, my AVR is 4 ohms compatible. Cant I just run it in that mode?
You got a completely brainless tech, who's clearly just pulling things out of his backside. There is no way in hell that a lousy little NR1710 is going to be a safer power source for those speakers than an SR5012. "Overpowering" speakers??? ROTFL, I have never heard anything so completely nonsensical. Short of a beefy external amp, those ELACS would probably benefit from one of Marantz's top of the line receivers which have a lot more power than the 5012 which is a low-middle level receiver.
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post #47 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
So I just got this email from Marantz tech support about the same questions I posted here.. and here is what they said. Please let me know if what he says make sense.

I wouldn't recommend pairing those speakers with this unit. The ELAC Uni-fi UF5 are rated with a recommended power rating of 40W - 140W, with a peak power handling rating of 140W.

The SR5012's 4 ohm power spec isn't listed, but the 8 ohm spec is 100W per channel. The 4 ohm spec would be roughly double that (~175-200W).

The SR5012 would very likely overpower your speakers - especially at high volume, especially if a period of peak wattage hits (i.e., loud explosions in movies, etc.) - which could very possibly damage or blow your speakers.

The NR1710 would be a better fit, at 50W @ 8 ohm (so ~80-100W @ 4 ohm).


Up to know I was under the impression I had to worry about the amp. They seem to think I need to worry about the speakers. Also, my AVR is 4 ohms compatible. Cant I just run it in that mode?
Well, that is just plain silly.

Many of the high high end systems on AVS have far more peak power than the speakers are rated for.

My speakers are rated at a lowly 70 watts max and I drive them with an AVR with 90 watts and while the amp can indeed drive the speakers into saying "hey, that's enough" it is quite noticeable when that happens, it happens at levels much much much louder than I normally listen, which can be "loud," and all I did in that experiment was back the volume down to normal loud listening levels.

You will be just fine.
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post #48 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 02:16 PM
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The maximum input for my paradigm 15B's is supposed to be 90 watts.
I heard them running from a Peachtree Nova 300 turned up to 70% volume, so about 200 watts per channel, and other than being way louder than I'd want to listen, they still sounded clear and great but those little woofers were really pumping.
Too much power rarely blows speakers,
not enough clean power usually does.
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post #49 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 03:57 PM
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I just bought the Elac Debut Reference DBR62 and they surprise me more and more each day based on the music I play.

Based on previous videos I tested these bass tracks per Jay's experience as follows.


Bass: night train christian McBride
Bass: flight of the cosmic hippo flecstones
Also by bela fleck

Bass : limit to your love james blake
Bass : Hot Spade oh Joon Sung

I have a JTR HT118 sub for movies that goes down to 11Hz. Edge of Tomorrow opening scene.

Anyway these speakers with a fairly decent to strong amplifier will reward you. I have a unison research unico hybrid amp. Solid state for power and the preamp is tube. It goes over 100 watts easily at 6 or 4 ohms. With out a sub mind you these speakers somehow pressurized my room with bass. And my room is not small. My living room is an open floor plan leading to the dining room and kitchen. The bass was pretty unbelievable at mid to high volume levels. The review was spot on in regard to higher components bringing the potential of these speakers out. I'm sure these speakers do with a variety of amps, but just keep in mind they may have another level with quality amps or integrated amps.

I'm now in search for a Dac in the $300 to $600 range. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Have an eye on the bluesound node 2i.

Ray Charles, Tonny Bennet and Frank Sinatra sounded so natural when listening. I was streaming through Tidal Hifi. Will be looking to DSD and MQA soon.

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Edge of tomorrow opening scene made me spit out my pizza, spill my ranch and knock over beer and fall towards my amp to make sure my drivers didnt shoot out of the cabinets, it was terrifying. Great movie, brutal bass.

Living Room: Denon X4500H | Crown XLS 2500 & 1002 | RBH R-515 LCR | Morel Surrounds | DIY 12" Infinity Subs w/ Inuke 3000

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post #50 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 04:32 PM
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Edge of tomorrow opening scene made me spit out my pizza, spill my ranch and knock over beer and fall towards my amp to make sure my drivers didnt shoot out of the cabinets, it was terrifying. Great movie, brutal bass.
It's sort of an anomaly because there is really nothing in particular that is relevant in that scene...lol.

I have an AVS buddy that made me a few blu Ray's some years back with like the best 100 Bass scenes known to woman and man.

Talk about the subwoofer getting a work out. You know it's bad when you start watching movies you would never watch otherwise because if the amazing bass..

That said , I have a strange desire to watch the most recent Tron.



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[I]Video: Sony XBR-75X850C 75 inch 4k - Samsung 55inch 4k -58 PANASONIC PZ850u plasma
4k-Blu Ray: Sony UBP x800 - PS3 - oppo 103 Amp and power : Pioneer elite SC - 27 - Monster Power AVS 2000 Reference - DT BP 30s- 10s - citation 5.1
Speakers and Sub : Kef Model reference 1 - DT CLR 2000 - DT UIW BP/A in ceiling rears - DT BPX Rears - JTR Captivator 118HT
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post #51 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 04:35 PM
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It's sort of an anomaly because there is really nothing in particular that is relevant in that scene...lol.

I have an AVS buddy that made me a few blu Ray's some years back with like the best 100 Bass scenes known to woman and man.

Talk about the subwoofer getting a work out. You know it's bad when you start watching movies you would never watch otherwise because if the amazing bass..

That said , I have a strange desire to watch the most recent Tron.



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Ha! I was listening to the Tron legacy soundtrack on cd this morning!

Living Room: Denon X4500H | Crown XLS 2500 & 1002 | RBH R-515 LCR | Morel Surrounds | DIY 12" Infinity Subs w/ Inuke 3000

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post #52 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
So I just got this email from Marantz tech support about the same questions I posted here.. and here is what they said. Please let me know if what he says make sense.

I wouldn't recommend pairing those speakers with this unit. The ELAC Uni-fi UF5 are rated with a recommended power rating of 40W - 140W, with a peak power handling rating of 140W.

The SR5012's 4 ohm power spec isn't listed, but the 8 ohm spec is 100W per channel. The 4 ohm spec would be roughly double that (~175-200W).

The SR5012 would very likely overpower your speakers - especially at high volume, especially if a period of peak wattage hits (i.e., loud explosions in movies, etc.) - which could very possibly damage or blow your speakers.

The NR1710 would be a better fit, at 50W @ 8 ohm (so ~80-100W @ 4 ohm).


Up to know I was under the impression I had to worry about the amp. They seem to think I need to worry about the speakers. Also, my AVR is 4 ohms compatible. Cant I just run it in that mode?

lol, that's one of the most hilarious (and ignorant) tech support replies that I've seen in a while.

I don't know what I find the worst...the fact that they think the speakers would be "over powered" or the fact that they obviously don't have a damn clue about their own product line and what happens when you run 5-channels off of one receiver.
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post #53 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
lol, that's one of the most hilarious (and ignorant) tech support replies that I've seen in a while.

I don't know what I find the worst...the fact that they think the speakers would be "over powered" or the fact that they obviously don't have a damn clue about their own product line and what happens when you run 5-channels off of one receiver.
I was wondering about this myself. I think I get it, but can you explain it to me? keep in mind that currently my surround speakers are still 8 impedance

DISPLAY: SONY X900F 75"
AVR: Marantz SR5012
TURNTABLE: TEAC TN- 300
SPEAKERS: ELAC Uni-fi UF5 - ELAC Uni-fi UC5 - ELAC Uni-fi UB5 - ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2
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post #54 of 56 Old 05-24-2020, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
I was wondering about this myself. I think I get it, but can you explain it to me? keep in mind that currently my surround speakers are still 8 impedance
Receivers' power specs are often based on totally unrealistic conditions which the manufacturers deliberately choose in order to inflate their "watts per channel" numbers for sales purposes, since the average low-information consumer thinks that a "100wpc" unit is going to be twice as loud as a "50wpc" one.

One of their tricks is to base that "watts" power spec on how much power the receiver puts out in ONE channel, and often at some totally unlistenable 10% THD. So you have to read the fine print carefully, and even there, many manufacturers lie through their teeth. Marantz used to be one of the few honest ones, but post 2017 when they were bought by the same conglomerate that owns Denon and Onkyo, I have no idea.

I think that idiot tech guy you spoke to was probably new to the job and knows nothing about audio except for whatever Cliff Notes training material they made him read. Did he have a South Asian (India) or Filipino accent, btw? If yes, he was probably a subcontractor teleworking from halfway across the world, getting paid $3/hr.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #55 of 56 Old 05-25-2020, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dysan View Post
I was wondering about this myself. I think I get it, but can you explain it to me? keep in mind that currently my surround speakers are still 8 impedance
Into 8 ohms when driving 5 speakers vs 2, it delivers about 2/3 the power.

Here's a test of the earlier version of your receiver, the Marantz 5009.

Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 111.7 watts
1% distortion at 129.8 watts

Two channels driven continuously into 4-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 182.7 watts
1% distortion at 203.9 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 72.9 watts
1% distortion at 88.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:

0.1% distortion at 68.5 watts
1% distortion at 81.0 watts

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

Geoff A. J., California
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post #56 of 56 Old 05-25-2020, 03:06 PM
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[COLOR="red"] What do you mean by 11?
"Turn it up to 11 (on a scale of 10)" is a slang expression from the movie Spinal Tap. Translation: if you crank the system until it sounds bad, the specs don't matter, something will break eventually.
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