Are towers they best way to go? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by joxr View Post
If a choice between towers or large monitor speakers .. are towers the way to go if you can fit them even if you are running subs ? Because with subs you would be running the towers are small right ?
I struggled with the same question and ended up with JBL 590's which are a huge tower. I paired the JBL's with two SVS sb3000's I am wondering now if I could have achieved as good of sound with bookshelves such as the Chanes. My listening is more music than HT so I thought the towers were the way to go but now am leaning the other way.
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post #32 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha I was actually thinking about being able to repurpose the monitors if needed whereas tower speakers will always be tower speakers.
yup

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post #33 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 04:39 PM
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most towers that can go low to 40hz or below will sound great with music and w/out a sub. ofc 1% of music out there goes really low...but my towers sound just fine without a sub and play over 100db. I only have some 4ohm maggie lrs which I can compare to bookshelves...they get to maybe 90db w/out subs.

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post #34 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mdildine View Post
I struggled with the same question and ended up with JBL 590's which are a huge tower. I paired the JBL's with two SVS sb3000's I am wondering now if I could have achieved as good of sound with bookshelves such as the Chanes. My listening is more music than HT so I thought the towers were the way to go but now am leaning the other way.
I have the 590's, just getting used to them. Depends on the music whether or not the added benefits of the tower would be worth it. I'm still a proponent of towers over bookshelves.
To the OP, we're still waiting to hear your budget.
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post #35 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
I have the 590's, just getting used to them. Depends on the music whether or not the added benefits of the tower would be worth it. I'm still a proponent of towers over bookshelves.
To the OP, we're still waiting to hear your budget.
My budget is basically around what the arendals are. I was considering the PSAs but I just dont like the way they looks since it is not going into a dedicated theatre room.

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post #36 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by joxr View Post
My budget is basically around what the arendals are. I was considering the PSAs but I just dont like the way they looks since it is not going into a dedicated theatre room.
State a number.

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post #37 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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State a number.
around 4k

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post #38 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by joxr View Post
around 4k
Ascend Sierra towers w/ RAAL tweeter, and don't look back.

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post #39 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 07:23 PM
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Ascend Sierra towers w/ RAAL tweeter, and don't look back.
I like that. Maybe two smaller sealed subs from Rythmik or RSL? IIRC OP's budget was a total $5k
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post #40 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 07:25 PM
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Ascend Sierra towers w/ RAAL tweeter, and don't look back.
Yes, they should be on a very short list in their price class. I know they are on my short list for when I want to upgrade!
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post #41 of 69 Old 05-19-2020, 07:54 PM
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He'll also have room left over for Dual HSU or Rythmik subs.

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post #42 of 69 Old 05-20-2020, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joxr View Post
If a choice between towers or large monitor speakers .. are towers the way to go if you can fit them even if you are running subs ? Because with subs you would be running the towers are small right ?
It’s all personal preference.

What electronics are you planning to use?
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post #43 of 69 Old 05-20-2020, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Unless I am looking at the wrong specs, its 89 for the monitors and 92 for the towers. This makes sense since doubling woofers adds 3 dB sensitivity. Am I looking at the wrong specs?
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Originally Posted by joxr View Post
Monitors Freq response

Sealed 58-20kHz (+/-3dB)
2 vents 34-20kHz (+/-3dB)

89dB

Towers Freq response

Sealed 55-20kHz (+/-3dB)
3 vents 38-20kHz (+/-3dB)
2 vents 34-20KHz (+/-3dB)

92db
Sorry guys, my bad. I had mistakenly checked out the 1723 S series, where the difference was 88.7 vs 89.

I agree that 3 dB is a meaningful difference. However, it's rather impossible for me to believe. Sensitivity is measured with pink noise in the midrange, typically 300 Hz -3 KHz. The woofers in the tower model contribute nothing in that range. With the same mid-woofers and tweeters, 1500 Hz crossover, and nominal impedance, the sensitivity should be close to the same.

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post #44 of 69 Old 05-20-2020, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Boombox13 View Post
It’s all personal preference.

What electronics are you planning to use?
Probably a denon x4500 until the 2.1 avrs roll around. Monoprice or some comparable amp down the road.
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post #45 of 69 Old 05-20-2020, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
Sorry guys, my bad. I had mistakenly checked out the 1723 S series, where the difference was 88.7 vs 89.

I agree that 3 dB is a meaningful difference. However, it's rather impossible for me to believe. Sensitivity is measured with pink noise in the midrange, typically 300 Hz -3 KHz. The woofers in the tower model contribute nothing in that range. With the same mid-woofers and tweeters, 1500 Hz crossover, and nominal impedance, the sensitivity should be close to the same.
It's a 2.5 way design. So one or more of the woofers are the midrange. Probably not as cut and dry as you assume.
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post #46 of 69 Old 05-20-2020, 10:19 PM
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Probably a denon x4500 until the 2.1 avrs roll around.
What's a 2.1 AVR?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #47 of 69 Old 05-20-2020, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by joxr View Post
If a choice between towers or large monitor speakers .. are towers the way to go if you can fit them even if you are running subs ? Because with subs you would be running the towers are small right ?
Budget, output needs, and whether you are serious about bass management are all factors. When set up well within their design limits, and mated well with subs, you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference in a blind listening test.

But pushed beyond their limits, or not set up well, the monitor style speakers can disappoint.
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what's a 2.1 avr?

hdmi 2.1.
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post #49 of 69 Old 05-21-2020, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Budget, output needs, and whether you are serious about bass management are all factors. When set up well within their design limits, and mated well with subs, you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference in a blind listening test.

But pushed beyond their limits, or not set up well, the monitor style speakers can disappoint.
I am leaning towards just ordering the towers.

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post #50 of 69 Old 05-21-2020, 07:41 AM
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I’m sure you’ll like them.

You can see from my build thread in my signature I’ve used several in my room.....and now I strongly prefer LCR speakers which admittedly look like monitors but have the output of towers in the region that counts. 🙂

Quote:
Originally Posted by joxr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Budget, output needs, and whether you are serious about bass management are all factors. When set up well within their design limits, and mated well with subs, you’️d be hard pressed to tell the difference in a blind listening test.

But pushed beyond their limits, or not set up well, the monitor style speakers can disappoint.
I am leaning towards just ordering the towers.


My current setup.
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post #51 of 69 Old 05-21-2020, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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So let me run something by you guys. I originally was interested in getting the Klipsch RF7-III and RC64-III instead of the Arendals. What are your opinions on those Klipsch speakers ? It seems like Klipsch gets a bad rap because they sell cheap stuff in Best Buy etc. At least online on some forums or youtube they consider them like the bose of the home theatre world. One thing I love about the RF7-III towers is the massive 10" woofers .. but it is weird how the rest of the line goes down in size. And you have to mix and match lines to complete a setup.

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post #52 of 69 Old 05-21-2020, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by joxr View Post
So let me run something by you guys. I originally was interested in getting the Klipsch RF7-III and RC64-III instead of the Arendals. What are your opinions on those Klipsch speakers ? It seems like Klipsch gets a bad rap because they sell cheap stuff in Best Buy etc. At least online on some forums or youtube they consider them like the bose of the home theatre world. One thing I love about the RF7-III towers is the massive 10" woofers .. but it is weird how the rest of the line goes down in size. And you have to mix and match lines to complete a setup.
I'm sure it'd be ample for your 8-9ft listening distance.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #53 of 69 Old 05-21-2020, 09:40 AM
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So let me run something by you guys. I originally was interested in getting the Klipsch RF7-III and RC64-III instead of the Arendals. What are your opinions on those Klipsch speakers ? It seems like Klipsch gets a bad rap because they sell cheap stuff in Best Buy etc. At least online on some forums or youtube they consider them like the bose of the home theatre world. One thing I love about the RF7-III towers is the massive 10" woofers .. but it is weird how the rest of the line goes down in size. And you have to mix and match lines to complete a setup.
Those are amazing Speakers, what state you in? I have some for sale near me , which are basically brand new for a steal.
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post #54 of 69 Old 05-21-2020, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Those are amazing Speakers, what state you in? I have some for sale near me , which are basically brand new for a steal.
nj

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post #55 of 69 Old 05-21-2020, 09:58 AM
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nj
Nevermind... This guy selling them is in California.
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post #56 of 69 Old 05-22-2020, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by joxr View Post
So let me run something by you guys. I originally was interested in getting the Klipsch RF7-III and RC64-III instead of the Arendals. What are your opinions on those Klipsch speakers ? It seems like Klipsch gets a bad rap because they sell cheap stuff in Best Buy etc. At least online on some forums or youtube they consider them like the bose of the home theatre world. One thing I love about the RF7-III towers is the massive 10" woofers .. but it is weird how the rest of the line goes down in size. And you have to mix and match lines to complete a setup.
What speakers do you currently own and what kind of sound do you like? Klipsch is a love it or hate it kind of brand, so be sure to listen to them first. I would describe their sound as boom/sizzle, i.e. having boosted mid-bass and treble. I can listen to them at lower volumes, but when you turn the volume up those horn tweeters become too hot for my ears. Their fans enjoy the sharpness. They're more dynamic than average and more sensitive than average, but their claimed sensitivity is overstated.

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It's a 2.5 way design. So one or more of the woofers are the midrange. Probably not as cut and dry as you assume.
It doesn't matter if it's 2.5 way or 3 way. The lower crossover is at 120 Hz, which means the woofers contribute very little to sensitivity, which is measured 300-3000 Hz. I am always skeptical of manufacturers' claimed sensitivity. Most manufacturers exaggerate it, some by a lot. 92 dB is at the very top end of what you can achieve with a conventional loudspeaker and dynamic drivers. Very few measure that high, so I was immediately skeptical. But 89 dB for the newer 1793 'S' tower model sounds more believable, especially when compared to it's stand-mounted sibling.

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post #57 of 69 Old 05-23-2020, 03:39 AM
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It doesn't matter if it's 2.5 way or 3 way. The lower crossover is at 120 Hz, which means the woofers contribute very little to sensitivity,
Quite often in speaker design, it's the woofers that are the limiting factor to sensitivity (Hofmann's Iron Law tradoff). In those cases, the tweeter is brought down in level in the crossover to match. In a tower with a larger box and more bass drivers, the same tweeter can be brought down less to match the output of the bass, resulting in a more sensitive speaker and higher output capability.
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post #58 of 69 Old 05-23-2020, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
What speakers do you currently own and what kind of sound do you like? Klipsch is a love it or hate it kind of brand, so be sure to listen to them first. I would describe their sound as boom/sizzle, i.e. having boosted mid-bass and treble. I can listen to them at lower volumes, but when you turn the volume up those horn tweeters become too hot for my ears. Their fans enjoy the sharpness. They're more dynamic than average and more sensitive than average, but their claimed sensitivity is overstated.
Have you listened to the newest line of Klipsh Heritage speakers? IMO they are not as you describe Klipsch.

All series within a brand do not always have the same sound characteristics. My first experience with Dynaudio was the Audience series and the Contours. The Audience is one of the harshest sounding speakers I ever heard and the contours were only slightly better.
The earlier Focus series were boomy. The last generation of Focus (160 and 260) IMO were very good IMO.
My last trip to the Dynaudio dealer I listened to the S40. I have heard much better at 1/3 the price. The S25 was one of their best. Again, IMO.
The only way to buy a speaker is to listen first and not depend on opinions. We hear differently.
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post #59 of 69 Old 05-23-2020, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon AA View Post
Quite often in speaker design, it's the woofers that are the limiting factor to sensitivity (Hofmann's Iron Law tradoff). In those cases, the tweeter is brought down in level in the crossover to match. In a tower with a larger box and more bass drivers, the same tweeter can be brought down less to match the output of the bass, resulting in a more sensitive speaker and higher output capability.

That doesn't apply here because both speakers have the same mid-woofers covering the same frequency range, same tweeter, same crossover between them. The tower model simply adds two more woofers and has a lower bass reflex tuning, but those differences are below the frequency range of a sensitivity measurement.

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post #60 of 69 Old 05-23-2020, 06:20 AM
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Have you listened to the newest line of Klipsh Heritage speakers? IMO they are not as you describe Klipsch.
Only the Heresy of the newest Heritage models. I have a friend who is a bit of a Klipsch fan, and has the Forte II and K-horns, both powered by Bottlehead SET kit amps. I'm not a fan.

But you're right that my comments were mainly about the HT speaker line.

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All series within a brand do not always have the same sound characteristics. My first experience with Dynaudio was the Audience series and the Contours. The Audience is one of the harshest sounding speakers I ever heard and the contours were only slightly better.
The earlier Focus series were boomy. The last generation of Focus (160 and 260) IMO were very good IMO.
My last trip to the Dynaudio dealer I listened to the S40. I have heard much better at 1/3 the price. The S25 was one of their best. Again, IMO.
The only way to buy a speaker is to listen first and not depend on opinions. We hear differently.
I totally agree re: auditions. There are a few brands/models that I would be comfortable buying online w/o audition, those that have a consistent house sound that I'm familiar with, but only if they don't cost too much.

I've never heard any of the Dynaudio Audience models.
Both the Special 25 and the Sapphire are too bright for my ears.
But I have heard most of the Contour models released in the last 20 years and I've never found any of them to be bright or harsh. The latest ones are pretty neutral. The Contour S models were a bit too dark, with the possible exception of the S5.4. And the Contour 1/2/3 models before that were pretty neutral too. IMHO, YMMV.
I am surprised you liked the Focus 160 but not the S40. That's a head scratcher.

HT: Dynaudio C2, Contour S CX, 2x BM14S, Aperion surrounds, Simaudio Titan, Marantz AV8801, Oppo 103, Linn Majik DS, and a Pioneer Kuro
Stereo: Dynaudio Focus 160, Simaudio W-5 LE or Luxman M-600A, Linn Akurate DSM, 2x Rythmik F12G
Other interests: motorcycling, skiing, being active
Red MC is offline  
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