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post #1 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Updating my HT/Family Room - $5k for speakers? So confused:)

Good morning folks! I have recently began to revamp my family room HT system (everyday room) as I am moving into the 4k HDR/DV world. Will be running Denon 4500 with Emo XPA 5 channel amp (200rmsx5). Bottom end handled by PSA twin 15's

So, I have Von Schweikert VR2 mains, VS LCR15 center and their dipole/bipole surrounds..my room is big and open...23x16 and almost 2 stories..back opens to the kitchen. This is our everyday living room/family room/tv watching room..I want to update the speakers now...at least the front 3...I feel my center channel is weak as no matter what I do, I dont get clear and powerful vocals. There are several seating positions, so sometimes I am off axis watching a movie, other times I am straight ahead in the prime seat....so, being out of the game for so long, I am blown away at the choices out there...any chance you can help me narrow things down and or see if I am on the right track here?

Martin Logan 60xti and 50xti center - I have never heard them

KEF R5 or R7's and R2C center - never heard them

Monitor Audio Silver 500's - heard MA silver years back when I chose the Vons over the Monitors..I did like the Monitors though..especially with Rock

B&W 703-704's? - have heard a few over the years and they always seemed nice

SVS Ultra Towers? - are these even in same category as others here?

Focal, Revel? - new to me again

Klipsch - I have never been a fan, but only ones I have heard have been at Best Buy, so take that with a grain of salt

As you can see, I am all over the place. This is going to be for watching tv every day, movies several times a week and straight music maybe 10-15% of the time...

When listening to music, it would be at mid to high levels...I prefer rock music, but really we listen to a little of everything (R&B, country, hair metal, classic rock...we like it all).

I prefer towers due to size of room and setup. Needs to be black...either piano black or oak veneer black......

Due to room layout, etc, I have very limited spaces to put the speakers..currently my Vons are about 18 inches from the wall..it is NOT possible to have speakers any farther out from the wall than that...this is along the narrow wall (16ft wide) and right in the middle of it..so not corner loaded.

With the lockdown, etc, listening at local stores is likely out...going with an ID company I could get return privileges...maybe what I am looking at is overkill for what I use it for?? When we watch movies, it is at near reference levels...music generally loud also...not many soft listening sessions going on here Maybe my ears have gotten worse over the years? It seems like I want a more lively, enveloping sound than I have now...I want more detail and clarity in dialogue when watching movies, etc. I know this is like opening a can of worms as the options are many, but would appreciate any help you can lend. Thanks a bunch!

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post #2 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtsum View Post
As you can see, I am all over the place. This is going to be for watching tv every day, movies several times a week and straight music maybe 10-15% of the time...when listening to music, it would be at mid to high levels...I prefer rock music, but really we listen to a little of everything (R&B, country, hair metal, classic rock...we like it all). I prefer towers due to size of room and setup. Needs to be black...either piano black or oak veneer black......With the lockdown, etc, listening at local stores is likely out...going with an ID company I could get return privileges...maybe what I am looking at is overkill for what I use it for?? When we watch movies, it is at near reference levels...music generally loud also...not many soft listening sessions going on here Maybe my ears have gotten worse over the years? It seems like I want a more lively, enveloping sound than I have now...I want more detail and clarity in dialogue when watching movies, etc. I know this is like opening a can of worms as the options are many, but would appreciate any help you can lend. Thanks a bunch!
If you don't mind the utilitarian looks, PowerSound Audio has what you are looking for in spades. If not, I'd probably go with Monitor Audio (I have a Silver RX system myself), Revel, or Focal.

I also highly recommend looking into a strong subwoofer or two.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Marantz 7013 AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
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post #3 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
If you don't mind the utilitarian looks, PowerSound Audio has what you are looking for in spades. If not, I'd probably go with Monitor Audio (I have a Silver RX system myself), Revel, or Focal.

I also highly recommend looking into a strong subwoofer or two.
Hello and thank you! I had looked at the PSA MTM speakers as I love my PSA sub...it seems the high efficiency MTM's would be great for me, but I cant get past the looks...the wife wouldnt either since its in our everyday living room. If they had them in black ash/oak, that might work...but otherwise wife wont go for it

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post #4 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by gtsum View Post
Hello and thank you! I had looked at the PSA MTM speakers as I love my PSA sub...it seems the high efficiency MTM's would be great for me, but I cant get past the looks...the wife wouldnt either since its in our everyday living room. If they had them in black ash/oak, that might work...but otherwise wife wont go for it
Yea, that's why I don't own them either

You can't go wrong w/ Monitor Audio, Revel, or Focal then. Very good combination of looks + lively and dynamic sound you are looking for.

B&W wouldn't be my first choice--they need a ton of power to really sing. I used to have an all B&W CDM system. Loved it for jazz. Was just ok for home theater and rock.

I hear good things about the SVS Ultras, but I've not heard them personally. Ascend Audio is another strong contender in the ID space.

Not a big fan of KEF's for rock or home theater.

I've not heard those Martin Logan models, only their electrostatic models.

My humble main system:
Vizio M75-E1; Oppo 203 universal UHD player; Marantz 7013 AVR, Dual PSA S1801's; Monitor Audio Silver RX-6 mains, RX center, and RX surrounds; one pair NHT mini Atmos speakers; Home-built HTPC (Xeon E1230, 16gb RAM, Crucial M500 480gb SSD, GeForce 980Ti, Corsair CX600, CoolerMaster mini-ITX case); Roku Premiere+; Amazon 4K Fire TV
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post #5 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 11:06 AM
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Big and pretty - ascend Sierra Horizon center

big and (arguably) ugly - Emotiva C2+

also check out Tekton Deisgn - double impact center. has a grill option available

good luck

I have heard the Horizon and its great -i'd probably have it if I could fit it into my space

C2+ very often recommended

haven't herd the tekton

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post #6 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
big and (arguably) ugly - Emotiva C2+
Actually they aren't as hideous as the Emotiva website's unfortunate black-on-white-background photos would suggest, especially if you keep the grilles on. Below is one forumite's photo of them, together with T1s.

@gtsum --- the Emotivas are the best bang-for-the-buck around, imo. I would pick them over all of the other options you're considering, especially since you already have a robust amp.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #7 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsabom View Post
Big and pretty - ascend Sierra Horizon center



big and (arguably) ugly - Emotiva C2+



also check out Tekton Deisgn - double impact center. has a grill option available



good luck



I have heard the Horizon and its great -i'd probably have it if I could fit it into my space



C2+ very often recommended



haven't herd the tekton


I actually forgot to put the emotiva t2’s on there. They seem to get good reviews but I’m not sure on the aesthetics....also the center channel says out of stock?? It would sure save a good bit of money if they ended up working out


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post #8 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Actually they aren't as hideous as the Emotiva website's unfortunate black-on-white-background photos would suggest, especially if you keep the grilles on. Below is one forumite's photo of them, together with T1s.


@gtsum --- the Emotivas are the best bang-for-the-buck around, imo. I would pick them over all of the other options you're considering, especially since you already have a robust amp.


That pic helps and you are right...looks a lot better in that pic than their website for sure.


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post #9 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gtsum View Post
I actually forgot to put the emotiva t2’s on there. They seem to get good reviews but I’m not sure on the aesthetics....also the center channel says out of stock?? It would sure save a good bit of money if they ended up working out
The C2 is supposed to be back in stock around mid June, last I heard.

If you don't have any subs, I'd strongly suggest spending the extra $1-2K your other speaker options would have cost on at least one robust sub like a Hsu VTF-15H, given your 23 x 16' two story room plus open kitchen. THAT would be a game changer just by itself.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #10 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Updating my HT/Family Room - $5k for speakers? So confused

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
The C2 is supposed to be back in stock around mid June, last I heard.



If you don't have any subs, I'd strongly suggest spending the extra $1-2K your other speaker options would have cost on at least one robust sub like a Hsu VTF-15H, given your 23 x 16' two story room plus open kitchen. THAT would be a game changer just by itself.


Thanks for the Info. I have a PSA xs30se...opposed 15’s for the bottom end. I know I need two to try and pressurize the room, but that isn’t going to happen due to furniture and wife etc.


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Last edited by gtsum; 05-24-2020 at 02:26 PM.
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post #11 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 12:32 PM
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the martin logans are on sale/closeout for killer deals on some online websites/dealers.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #12 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtsum View Post
Good morning folks! I have recently began to revamp my family room HT system (everyday room) as I am moving into the 4k HDR/DV world. Will be running Denon 4500 with Emo XPA 5 channel amp (200rmsx5). Bottom end handled by PSA twin 15's

So, I have Von Schweikert VR2 mains, VS LCR15 center and their dipole/bipole surrounds..my room is big and open...23x16 and almost 2 stories..back opens to the kitchen. This is our everyday living room/family room/tv watching room..I want to update the speakers now...at least the front 3...I feel my center channel is weak as no matter what I do, I dont get clear and powerful vocals. There are several seating positions, so sometimes I am off axis watching a movie, other times I am straight ahead in the prime seat....so, being out of the game for so long, I am blown away at the choices out there...any chance you can help me narrow things down and or see if I am on the right track here?

Martin Logan 60xti and 50xti center - I have never heard them

KEF R5 or R7's and R2C center - never heard them

Monitor Audio Silver 500's - heard MA silver years back when I chose the Vons over the Monitors..I did like the Monitors though..especially with Rock

B&W 703-704's? - have heard a few over the years and they always seemed nice

SVS Ultra Towers? - are these even in same category as others here?

Focal, Revel? - new to me again

Klipsch - I have never been a fan, but only ones I have heard have been at Best Buy, so take that with a grain of salt

As you can see, I am all over the place. This is going to be for watching tv every day, movies several times a week and straight music maybe 10-15% of the time...

When listening to music, it would be at mid to high levels...I prefer rock music, but really we listen to a little of everything (R&B, country, hair metal, classic rock...we like it all).

I prefer towers due to size of room and setup. Needs to be black...either piano black or oak veneer black......

Due to room layout, etc, I have very limited spaces to put the speakers..currently my Vons are about 18 inches from the wall..it is NOT possible to have speakers any farther out from the wall than that...this is along the narrow wall (16ft wide) and right in the middle of it..so not corner loaded.

With the lockdown, etc, listening at local stores is likely out...going with an ID company I could get return privileges...maybe what I am looking at is overkill for what I use it for?? When we watch movies, it is at near reference levels...music generally loud also...not many soft listening sessions going on here Maybe my ears have gotten worse over the years? It seems like I want a more lively, enveloping sound than I have now...I want more detail and clarity in dialogue when watching movies, etc. I know this is like opening a can of worms as the options are many, but would appreciate any help you can lend. Thanks a bunch!
Consider the new JBL HDI 3600 w/ 90db sensitivity and $75/pair returns at Crutchfield within 60 days.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_109HDI...ck.html?tp=185

Review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.13027/

Geoff A. J., California
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post #13 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 01:30 PM
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In addition to those named already, take a look at Salk Sound. Custom builder who generally has high WAF.

https://www.salksound.com/

Last edited by madhuski; 05-24-2020 at 01:35 PM.
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post #14 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 03:47 PM
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GoldenEar Triton T5 and SuperCenter Reference.

MSRP - $3850

There is a promo on the center channel until end of the month.

Where in VA? There is the “Easternshore of VA” and the mainland LOL.

I have family in VA Beach

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post #15 of 66 Old 05-24-2020, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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GoldenEar Triton T5 and SuperCenter Reference.



MSRP - $3850



There is a promo on the center channel until end of the month.



Where in VA? There is the “Easternshore of VA” and the mainland LOL.



I have family in VA Beach


Hello and thank you for the info. I know nothing a out GE, so I’ll check those out also

I’m just outside of Richmond in chesterfield county


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The Tobacco Company is one of my favorites when in Richmond.

In the late 80s I bought equipment some equipment from the Richmond Hotel during bankruptcy. There beautiful paintings dating back to the Civil War. Shame I not afford them.

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Hard to go wrong with the Revel Performa3 or Concerta2 series or the new JBL HDI series. Watch the Floyd Toole video in the first link:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ever-made.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html

https://www.revelspeakers.com/about/revel.html

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product...es/hdi-series/

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post #18 of 66 Old 05-25-2020, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The Tobacco Company is one of my favorites when in Richmond.

In the late 80s I bought equipment some equipment from the Richmond Hotel during bankruptcy. There beautiful paintings dating back to the Civil War. Shame I not afford them.
Tobacco Company is a good place..popular for happy hours downtown...good food too!
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post #19 of 66 Old 05-25-2020, 03:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Hard to go wrong with the Revel Performa3 or Concerta2 series or the new JBL HDI series. Watch the Floyd Toole video in the first link:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ever-made.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...nce-shows.html

https://www.revelspeakers.com/about/revel.html

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product...es/hdi-series/
Good morning and thank you for the links! Looks like a lot of good info to go through...Revels do seems to keep popping up
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Revels on the short(er) list now.
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Ascend Sierra Towers with RAAL and Horizon Center with RAAL

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...s/SRT/srt.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...n/horizon.html

NHT C4 and C LCR

https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/D...b&ref_=ast_bln

Already mentioned: Salk and Revel

Cheers,
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I feel my center channel is weak as no matter what I do, I dont get clear and powerful vocals. There are several seating positions, so sometimes I am off axis watching a movie, other times I am straight ahead in the prime seat.
From Salk Sounds description of their Supercharged Song Center speaker:

https://www.salksound.com/model.php?...d%20SongCenter

SEAS W15'S
These 5" woofers are a perfect choice for a center channel. First, they have excellent off-axis response so that no matter where you are in the room, the sound remains the same.
They are also highly detailed so that you hear every detail that you should from the center channel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sk373 View Post
You can't go wrong w/ Monitor Audio, Revel, or Focal then. Very good combination of looks + lively and dynamic sound you are looking for.
Add Canton (Made in Germany) to this list.

Free matching center with purchase of their Vento 896.2 towers

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...pecials/1.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
In addition to those named already, take a look at Salk Sound. Custom builder who generally has high WAF.

https://www.salksound.com/
X2 for Salk Sound

59" Samsung Series 7000 Plasma TV Samsung BD-D5500 Blu-ray player
Onkyo TX-NR609 AV Receiver
Canton TBD (Center) Canton Chrono SL 596 DC (L & R)
JBL SP6CII (Frt Height & RR Surround)
Martin Logan Dynamo 1000
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post #23 of 66 Old 05-25-2020, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boombox13 View Post
From Salk Sounds description of their Supercharged Song Center speaker:

https://www.salksound.com/model.php?...d%20SongCenter

SEAS W15'S
These 5" woofers are a perfect choice for a center channel. First, they have excellent off-axis response so that no matter where you are in the room, the sound remains the same.
They are also highly detailed so that you hear every detail that you should from the center channel.




Add Canton (Made in Germany) to this list.

Free matching center with purchase of their Vento 896.2 towers

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...pecials/1.html



X2 for Salk Sound
Hello and thank you for the great information! Those Canton's look sharp...seems like a heck of a deal on them also...will try and find some reviews, opinions, etc of those. Thanks again!
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Some great recommendations in here. I am a JBL/Revel fan myself, but I have personal experience with Ascend and Goldenear and they are both solid recommendations but do have different sound signatures. The nicer Klipsch stuff is actually really great for home theater too (not the budget speakers at Best Buy). The Reference Premier speakers are affordable and a great speaker when paired with capable subs.
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post #25 of 66 Old 05-25-2020, 09:35 AM
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If you can swing it, get the MartinLogans. You won't be disappointed and be glad you did 5+ years down the road, I can assure you. One of the reasons for the high price of ML is that, that's it. Game over. You won't want any other speaker, even 5+ years down the road, as I am.

Main: Mitsubishi 73736|OTA|fireTV|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|1-1000watt & 1-500watt DIY 12" Subs|2 Bass Shaker|APC H15 Power Conditioner|Harmony Hub|Sennheiser RS 160|SMSL B1 BT Rx|Linksys SE2500
MBR: Vizio VF550M|OTA|fireTV3|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-X1000|Chane A1rx-c|Phantom|Dayton SAT-BK|MartinLogan Dynamo 300|Belkin PF30|Harmony 550
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post #26 of 66 Old 05-25-2020, 01:08 PM
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Hello and thank you for the great information! Those Canton's look sharp...seems like a heck of a deal on them also...will try and find some reviews, opinions, etc of those. Thanks again!
Here is a review of the previous model: Vento 896 (896.2 is newer model)
https://www.lowbeats.de/test-canton-...um-3-000-euro/
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59" Samsung Series 7000 Plasma TV Samsung BD-D5500 Blu-ray player
Onkyo TX-NR609 AV Receiver
Canton TBD (Center) Canton Chrono SL 596 DC (L & R)
JBL SP6CII (Frt Height & RR Surround)
Martin Logan Dynamo 1000
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post #27 of 66 Old 05-27-2020, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for the advice and info! Lots to catch up on for me

Just got the new denon setup and rediscovering my Vons it seems (audyssey xt32 seems to have worked better than my Onkyo did), so I am going to pick up some Revels and try them out at home next to my Vons and go from there. I need something that looks halfway decent (WAF), so many ID companies are out. I will likely try the F206/F208 first...see how they compare and if not big enough difference from what I have, then maybe try the f226be's. Thanks again and will update whenever I make a final decision
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post #28 of 66 Old 05-28-2020, 03:44 AM
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Thanks all for the advice and info! Lots to catch up on for me

Just got the new denon setup and rediscovering my Vons it seems (audyssey xt32 seems to have worked better than my Onkyo did), so I am going to pick up some Revels and try them out at home next to my Vons and go from there. I need something that looks halfway decent (WAF), so many ID companies are out. I will likely try the F206/F208 first...see how they compare and if not big enough difference from what I have, then maybe try the f226be's. Thanks again and will update whenever I make a final decision
Just curious, if the center speaker is the only concern....why not just try/replace the center only?
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post #29 of 66 Old 05-28-2020, 03:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Just curious, if the center speaker is the only concern....why not just try/replace the center only?
Good question...the new Denon with Audyssey multieq32 seems to have done a better job than my previous Onkyo with their version of room correction...If I do make a change, I wanted to keep the front 3 from the same company for timber matching
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post #30 of 66 Old 05-28-2020, 04:34 AM
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Good question...the new Denon with Audyssey multieq32 seems to have done a better job than my previous Onkyo with their version of room correction...If I do make a change, I wanted to keep the front 3 from the same company for timber matching
From what I’ve been reading on AVSFORUM, timber matching isn’t necessary.

You can always try a center first, and hear for yourself if it makes a negative or positive difference.
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