Sapphire compatible expansion - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 05-25-2020, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Sapphire compatible expansion

Hi All, I'm preparing to renovate my basement into a HT/bar/man cave and am ;looking for some advice. I am currently running a 7.1 system with a Denon 3311 driving 7 Sapphire speakers and a Velodyne sub. I just ordered a new Denon X4500 for the new space and want to expand to 9 speakers at least, maybe 11. Since Sapphire went out of business some time ago, I was wondering what current speakers are out there that would be compatible with them, so I can avoid buying all new.



The new space will be about 14x25 with concrete floor covered either by luxury vinyl or epoxy, with some area rugs. Three walls are cinder block, but will probably get covered with drywall.
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post #2 of 17 Old 05-25-2020, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 4HiMarks View Post
Hi All, I'm preparing to renovate my basement into a HT/bar/man cave and am ;looking for some advice. I am currently running a 7.1 system with a Denon 3311 driving 7 Sapphire speakers and a Velodyne sub. I just ordered a new Denon X4500 for the new space and want to expand to 9 speakers at least, maybe 11. Since Sapphire went out of business some time ago, I was wondering what current speakers are out there that would be compatible with them, so I can avoid buying all new.



The new space will be about 14x25 with concrete floor covered either by luxury vinyl or epoxy, with some area rugs. Three walls are cinder block, but will probably get covered with drywall.
You'd likely be better off using what you have, getting another or better subs and going with Atmos speakers.

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post #3 of 17 Old 05-25-2020, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 4HiMarks View Post
I am currently running a 7.1 system with a Denon 3311 driving 7 Sapphire speakers and a Velodyne sub. I just ordered a new Denon X4500 for the new space and want to expand to 9 speakers at least, maybe 11.
Almost *any* in ceiling speakers will work with your current speakers...being Atmos, they will do a miniscule % of the HT output, so any notion of "matching" is for greedy salesmen and incredibly nit-picky listeners only.

I agree with the previous poster: upgrading your sub would make a much more noticeable impact. I would not spend more than $100 per Atmos speaker, tops.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #4 of 17 Old 05-25-2020, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I have ideas on the sub situation, but that is for a different thread.



I was not considering in-ceiling. It may not even be an option as I have a drop ceiling and am strongly leaning towards keeping it in one form or another.I would prefer bookshelf.
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post #5 of 17 Old 05-25-2020, 05:44 PM
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I was not considering in-ceiling. It may not even be an option as I have a drop ceiling and am strongly leaning towards keeping it in one form or another.I would prefer bookshelf.
Oh, if you are thinking of wall mounted "height" speakers, the easiest thing to do would be the SVS Elevations---very convenient, easy to install, and aesthetically pleasing.
https://www.svsound.com/collections/prime-elevation

But overpriced.

You could use compact bookshelf speakers like RSL CG3 ($135 ea. with free return shipping) or NHT SuperZeros ($70 each on Amazon) on L-bracket mounts and tilt them downwards.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #6 of 17 Old 05-25-2020, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, if you are thinking of wall mounted "height" speakers, the easiest thing to do would be the SVS Elevations---very convenient, easy to install, and aesthetically pleasing.
https://www.svsound.com/collections/prime-elevation

I am thinking mostly of duplicating the surround channels. Only one speaker on a 25' wall doesn't seem like enough. But I want both to be as close as possible in sound quality.
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post #7 of 17 Old 05-25-2020, 08:30 PM
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But I want both to be as close as possible in sound quality.
Then prepare for some trial-and-error, no way to avoid that.

Speakers that come with free return shipping are ideal for doing just that:
  • HTD
  • Infinity
  • JBL
  • RSL
  • SVS

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #8 of 17 Old 05-26-2020, 03:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Then prepare for some trial-and-error, no way to avoid that.

Speakers that come with free return shipping are ideal for doing just that:
  • HTD
  • Infinity
  • JBL
  • RSL
  • SVS
I was hoping to avoid that sort of thing by coming on here and asking the experts. Does anyone know the properties of Sapphires that other speakers might share?
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post #9 of 17 Old 05-26-2020, 06:23 AM
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I was hoping to avoid that sort of thing by coming on here and asking the experts. Does anyone know the properties of Sapphires that other speakers might share?
There are no "experts" who can predict what YOUR ears may or may not hear/notice. Not here. Not anywhere.

Judging from the lack of response to your question, it appears that no one who's read this thread has had any experience with your specific speakers at all.

I wouldn't waste time overthinking this silly hobby, or chasing unicorns.

Good luck.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #10 of 17 Old 05-26-2020, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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There are no "experts" who can predict what YOUR ears may or may not hear/notice. Not here. Not anywhere.
Of course not. But there ARE experts who might know the frequency response of the drivers, the specific materials those drivers are made of, the impedance of the speakers, the resonance properties of the cabinets, and many other objective, physical characteristics of the speakers in question and how they compare to the same properties of OTHER speakers. That is the answer I'm looking for.
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post #11 of 17 Old 05-26-2020, 06:39 AM
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Of course not. But there ARE experts who might know the frequency response of the drivers, the specific materials those drivers are made of, the impedance of the speakers, the resonance properties of the cabinets, and many other objective, physical characteristics of the speakers in question and how they compare to the same properties of OTHER speakers. That is the answer I'm looking for.
Sure there are...somewhere, somehow, in this or another parallel universe.

Good luck!

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #12 of 17 Old 05-27-2020, 09:54 AM
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Giving us some actual model numbers of your speakers would help.
Frankly, if you like what you have, then some neutral-sounding in-ceiling speakers would be great for Atmos. Some common ones are these: https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/
An additional Rhythmik sub would probably match your Velodyne better than any other manufacturer, as they share their servo technology.
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post #13 of 17 Old 05-27-2020, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Giving us some actual model numbers of your speakers would help.
Frankly, if you like what you have, then some neutral-sounding in-ceiling speakers would be great for Atmos. Some common ones are these: https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/
An additional Rhythmik sub would probably match your Velodyne better than any other manufacturer, as they share their servo technology.

They only made one model of surround speaker - Sapphire SS Surround. Same for bookshelf and center channels. Only the front towers came in multiple models. I have the ST3 Mk IIs. I managed to find a used pair of the surrounds on ebay and they're even in the same county, so I should be set.
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post #14 of 17 Old 05-27-2020, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 4HiMarks View Post
Of course not. But there ARE experts who might know the frequency response of the drivers, the specific materials those drivers are made of, the impedance of the speakers, the resonance properties of the cabinets, and many other objective, physical characteristics of the speakers in question and how they compare to the same properties of OTHER speakers. That is the answer I'm looking for.
Various posts on AVS ;
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/searc...8&pp=25&page=3
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post #15 of 17 Old 05-27-2020, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." Believe me, I searched the forum for any mention of Sapphires and came up empty.
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post #16 of 17 Old 05-27-2020, 10:54 AM
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I get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." Believe me, I searched the forum for any mention of Sapphires and came up empty.
I went to SPEAKER forum. Under search block in upper right just type in sapphire and select "show posts".
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-16-2020, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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So I got the used SS Surrounds and replaced my rear surround speakers with them. Now I'm trying to determine the best use for the SB bookshelf speakers that were originally rear surround. I'm thinking front height, maybe?
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