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post #1 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Need FCR Recommendations

I am struggling to decide what to acquire as a LR and C to complement my current 7.4 primarily Auro 3-D set-up. However, my love of piano concertos and SACD recordings for primary listening has me unable to decide. It looks like bookshelf ribbon tweeters are the way to go, but the choices are bewildering.

Budget is around $3000. Room is 15'-15'-9' carpeted.

Current equipment: 2 SB-200 subs. 4 SVS Prime Elevations. 4 Pioneer EBS73's as surrounds. MA Silver 2's as LR and Silver Center. Oppo 205, Emotiva Gen 3 11, Marantz 7705.  4K, PS4 Pro.
The center is restricted to a height of about 8" due to TV stand and LG E9 dominating the top shelf.

This is solely for me, however, esthetic design pleases me (i.e. Aurum Cantus).

I was hoping some other piano lovers could make some suggestions.

Last edited by coldharbor; 05-29-2020 at 12:17 AM. Reason: Spelling
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post #2 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by coldharbor View Post
I am struggling to decide what to acquire as a LR and C to complement my current 7.4 primarily Auro 3-D set-up. However, my love of piano concertos and SACD recordings for primary listening has me unable to decide. It looks like bookshelf ribbon tweeters are the way to go, but the choices are bewildering.

Budget is around $3000. Room is 15'-15'-9' carpeted.

Current equipment: 2 SB-200 subs. 4 SVS Prime Elevations. 4 Pioneer EBS73's as surrounds. MA Silver 2's as LR and Silver Center. Oppo 205, Emotiva Gen 3 11, Marantz 7705.  4K, PS4 Pro.
The center is restricted to a height of about 8" due to TV stand and LG E9 dominating the top shelf.

This is solely for me, however, esthetic design pleases me (i.e. Aurum Cantus).

I was hoping some other piano lovers could make some suggestions.
How far from the screen will you be sitting?

What % of your music collection would you guesstimate is SACD, and do you listen to those SACDs in multi-channel or 2 channel mode?

Do you listen in the typical 60-75db range, or much higher? (If unsure, download an SPL Meter app to your smartphone and find out.)

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #3 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
How far from the screen will you be sitting?

What % of your music collection would you guesstimate is SACD, and do you listen to those SACDs in multi-channel or 2 channel mode?

Do you listen in the typical 60-75db range, or much higher? (If unsure, download an SPL Meter app to your smartphone and find out.)
Hi,

I sit about 7' from screen and 5' from back wall. About 30% SACD and Blu-Ray audio in multi-channel and in that 60-75db range.
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post #4 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 10:14 AM
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Hi,

I sit about 7' from screen and 5' from back wall. About 30% SACD and Blu-Ray audio in multi-channel and in that 60-75db range.
If you're doing so much multi-channel music listening, ideally you'd want all your bed-layer speakers to be identical in order to have a truly seamless soundstage. Would you be willing to get 5 identical new speakers, within your current $3K budget?

The good news: you already have two very capable and musical subs, so you'd be fine going with small bookshelf speakers all around especially given your 60-75db listening habits. Optimally this would even include your center position speaker if you can do the same speaker in a vertical position. However, if you're stuck with an 8" height limit that would be very difficult unless you're willing to raise the TV or get a new cabinet.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 10:28 AM
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I am not going to suggest any specific speakers. I leave that to others. However, I will offer a few suggestions:

1. Since you set an 8" height requirement for the CC, that pretty much dictates a horizontal CC. You also said this is solely for you, which I take to mean you'll be thing single listener most of the time. In that case, I suggest you consider foregoing a CC altogether and instead use "phantom" center. This will send the CC content equally to the L/R speakers. You'll hear the CC content in "dual-mono" and you'll perceive it coming from the point in space where the CC would have been. This only works from the point directly in front of where the CC would have been, but it works just like a pair of 2-channel speakers producing a central image in stereo. This eliminates all the issues with lobing and comb filtering that are inherent in a horizontal CC. Plus it saves money that can be applied elsewhere.

2. Consider replacing your surrounds with the same speakers you choose for your L/R's. Since you listen to multi-channel music, (and I saw just today that Tidal will now start offering Atmos Music!!!), having timbre-matched identical speakers in all positions will be highly beneficial for you. IOW, plan for 6 new speakers, and replacing your mismatched speakers in the front, side and rear surround positions. You can probably continue to use the SVS elevation speakers, but that could be a future upgrade as well.

3. You've spent a lot of money on electronics, (Oppo 205, Marantz 7705 with an Emotiva amp). From a "budget allocation" standpoint, the speaker budget should, theoretically, exceed the budget for electronics. The speakers are the most important factor in what you hear. They should be the highest priority in an audio system. Given what you've already spent on electronic, your speaker budget deserves a little more love. Just sayin'!

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post #6 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
If you're doing so much multi-channel music listening, ideally you'd want all your bed-layer speakers to be identical in order to have a truly seamless soundstage. Would you be willing to get 5 identical new speakers, within your current $3K budget?

The good news: you already have two very capable and musical subs, so you'd be fine going with small bookshelf speakers all around especially given your 60-75db listening habits. Optimally this would even include your center position speaker if you can do the same speaker in a vertical position. However, if you're stuck with an 8" height limit that would be very difficult unless you're willing to raise the TV or get a new cabinet.
The stand is Whelan furniture who is not responding to my requests for the hardware I'm missing (the vertical brackets and screws for the Vesa holes) due to Covid-19. I suppose I'll need a new stand whatever I decide (shudder to think of all the recabling).

But that would allow me to get 5 matched speakers for layer 1. Craig's 3rd point is exactly the calculation that brought me to this point. I didn't feel I was doing justice to my electronics and media.

Edit: I ordered a Perlesmith TV stand which should give me the clearance to get a center in line with the L&R. I also have LCR Wharfedale Evo4.2 coming Monday to try out. They intrigued me.

Last edited by coldharbor; 05-29-2020 at 11:06 AM.
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post #7 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 12:34 PM
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Edit: I ordered a Perlesmith TV stand which should give me the clearance to get a center in line with the L&R. I also have LCR Wharfedale Evo4.2 coming Monday to try out. They intrigued me.
ha, I was just about to suggest the Evos as one of the speakers for you to try out. The only con against them is they're sold only in pairs, so if you were ordering 5 you'd have to pay for 3 pairs and have one left over. It would also be interesting to compare the 4.1 against the 4.2

The other one that would be worth trying, mainly to contrast with the Evos and see where your preferences really lie, would be the Revel M16 or M105, both of which are sold singly and available from Crutchfield with that sweet $10 flat rate return policy.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #8 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll also look into the Revel's (I keep running into that brand with favorable reviews).

Thanks.
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post #9 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 01:27 PM
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The stand is Whelan furniture who is not responding to my requests for the hardware I'm missing (the vertical brackets and screws for the Vesa holes) due to Covid-19. I suppose I'll need a new stand whatever I decide (shudder to think of all the recabling).

But that would allow me to get 5 matched speakers for layer 1. Craig's 3rd point is exactly the calculation that brought me to this point. I didn't feel I was doing justice to my electronics and media.

Edit: I ordered a Perlesmith TV stand which should give me the clearance to get a center in line with the L&R. I also have LCR Wharfedale Evo4.2 coming Monday to try out. They intrigued me.
If a "...center in line with the L & R." means a 3rd identical speaker mounted at the same height as the L & R speakers, that is definitely the *ideal* front speaker arrangement. However, if it means a horizontal MTM CC that "matches" the L & R speakers, that can be more challenging to find. Not all "matching" CC's are actually good timbre-matches. In fact, you may be better off with phantom CC than a poorly "matched" horizontal CC, especially if you sit in the middle of the soundstage.

If you want to audition a phantom CC, you can do so with your current system. Just go into your Marantz, find Speaker Config. and set Center to None. You'll be in phantom CC mode. If you find it satisfactory, skip the CC. The only thing you'll find better than that will be a 3rd identical speaker in the Center position.

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post #10 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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If a "...center in line with the L & R." means a 3rd identical speaker mounted at the same height as the L & R speakers, that is definitely the *ideal* front speaker arrangement. However, if it means a horizontal MTM CC that "matches" the L & R speakers, that can be more challenging to find. Not all "matching" CC's are actually good timbre-matches. In fact, you may be better off with phantom CC than a poorly "matched" horizontal CC, especially if you sit in the middle of the soundstage.

If you want to audition a phantom CC, you can do so with your current system. Just go into your Marantz, find Speaker Config. and set Center to None. You'll be in phantom CC mode. If you find it satisfactory, skip the CC. The only thing you'll find better than that will be a 3rd identical speaker in the Center position.

Craig
I will give the phantom CC test a run. Thanks.
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post #11 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 01:37 PM
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Ok, I'll also look into the Revel's (I keep running into that brand with favorable reviews).
Yes, they have a real cult following around here, something to do with a Dr. Toole.

Their fans swear on Dr. Toole that these are the most immaculately accurate and neutral speakers around, which they also further swear is the sound signature that an overwhelming majority of people prefer, according to said doctor's allegedly immaculately "scientific" research.

Their (admittedly not many) detractors find them rather clinical.

So, worth a $10 experiment IMO.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #12 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, they have a real cult following around here, something to do with a Dr. Toole.

Their fans swear on Dr. Toole that these are the most immaculately accurate and neutral speakers around, which they also further swear is the sound signature that an overwhelming majority of people prefer, according to said doctor's allegedly immaculately "scientific" research.

Their (admittedly not many) detractors find them rather clinical.

So, worth a $10 experiment IMO.
Hehe, I'm sensing a humorous vibe from you. Let me give these Evo's an audition by mid-week. I really want them to work given they're 3-way and have an AMT (which I've never auditioned) on my Brahm's and Rach piano concertos. If I hear a difference over the Silver 2's, I'll spring for 2 more for surrounds and be done with it.....or I could try the Sony NA5ES (ebay at about 1/2 price). Unfortunately hard to find anything to read on those (from users) outside of major magazine reviewers.
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post #13 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 01:59 PM
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Hehe, I'm sensing a humorous vibe from you. Let me give these Evo's an audition by mid-week. I really want them to work given they're 3-way and have an AMT (which I've never auditioned) on my Brahm's and Rach piano concertos. If I hear a difference over the Silver 2's, I'll spring for 2 more for surrounds and be done with it.....or I could try the Sony NA5ES (ebay at about 1/2 price). Unfortunately hard to find anything to read on those (from users) outside of major magazine reviewers.
Well, I'm poking a little fun at the cult followers, not necessarily at the speakers themselves.

It all boils down to what type of music listener you are---"analytical" listeners like to spend their time noting little details and subtle nuances in the sound coming out of the speakers (some of them habitually comparing it to their interpretation of that speaker's measurements), or "emotional" listeners who just want to lose themselves in the music and are looking for speakers that have just the "right" (to THEIR ears) musical magic that is un-measurable, intangible and downright ineffable. The second type are more likely to go for speakers like the Wharfedales.

I'm planning to try out the Evos myself in late June, possibly with the Revels or JBL HDI 1600 for a similar contrasting experience.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #14 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 01:59 PM
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I will give the phantom CC test a run. Thanks.
I've done that demo for many people and on numerous occasions the reaction I get is: "The center is not off. I can hear it. It's right there." and they point to their CC. It's not until they get up and put their ear to the CC that they convince themselves the CC is really off.
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post #15 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I'm poking a little fun at the cult followers, not necessarily at the speakers themselves.

It all boils down to what type of music listener you are---"analytical" listeners like to spend their time noting little details and subtle nuances in the sound coming out of the speakers (some of them habitually comparing it to their interpretation of that speaker's measurements), or "emotional" listeners who just want to lose themselves in the music and are looking for speakers that have just the "right" (to THEIR ears) musical magic that is un-measurable, intangible and downright ineffable. The second type are more likely to go for speakers like the Wharfedales.

I'm planning to try out the Evos myself in late June, possibly with the Revels or JBL HDI 1600 for a similar contrasting experience.
I believe I'm that 2nd type.
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I've done that demo for many people and on numerous occasions the reaction I get is: "The center is not of. I can hear it. It's right there." and they point to their CC. It's not until they get up and put their ear to the CC that they convince themselves the CC is really off.
Now I've really got to try it on a variety of discs.
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post #17 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 02:08 PM
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I believe I'm that 2nd type.
Me too.

Wasn't aware of that during my first 5 or 10 years in this hobby, though.

I was chasing the "accurate, uncolored sound JUST the way the musician(s) intended" unicorn, lol.
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post #18 of 55 Old 05-29-2020, 02:16 PM
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Well, I'm poking a little fun at the cult followers, not necessarily at the speakers themselves.

It all boils down to what type of music listener you are---"analytical" listeners like to spend their time noting little details and subtle nuances in the sound coming out of the speakers (some of them habitually comparing it to their interpretation of that speaker's measurements), or "emotional" listeners who just want to lose themselves in the music and are looking for speakers that have just the "right" (to THEIR ears) musical magic that is un-measurable, intangible and downright ineffable. The second type are more likely to go for speakers like the Wharfedales.
It's not as binary as you make it out to be. I like to lose myself in the music or the movie as much as the next guy. It's just that when I get distracted by hearing things that are not "right", that takes me out of the suspension of disbelief. If find that, if I follow the science and do things according to the best practices, I don't get distracted nearly as often, and I can more easily lose myself in the content. Maybe you can ignore flaws more easily than others. I'm clearly not one of "those kinds of listeners."

Craig
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I've done that demo for many people and on numerous occasions the reaction I get is: "The center is not off. I can hear it. It's right there." and they point to their CC. It's not until they get up and put their ear to the CC that they convince themselves the CC is really off.
I've had several friends and family members mention how good the music sounded coming from the center. Most thought I was effing with them when I mentioned it wasn't even on. The dumbfounded like on their face is priceless.
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post #20 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 09:42 AM
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I like to lose myself in the music or the movie as much as the next guy. It's just that when I get distracted by hearing things that are not "right", that takes me out of the suspension of disbelief. If find that, if I follow the science and do things according to the best practices, I don't get distracted nearly as often, and I can more easily lose myself in the content. Maybe you can ignore flaws more easily than others.
With movies, I think we may have very different thresholds of tolerance for not only flaws in the sound, but also for flaws in the actual CONTENT.

A movie could be presented to me on a flawless TV screen or projector accompanied by a flawless setup of speakers and subs, but all that flawless sound and sight would be completely irrelevant to me if the actual MOVIE ITSELF was a hopeless ordeal of cliched cardboard characters derived from Hollywood formulas and test audience focus groups, the dialogue a bunch of cliched vernacular, and the plot the standard Hollywood 3 act formula:

Act 1: set up easily recognizable and popularly sympathetic characters, and show what's at stake to them and/or THE WORLD.

Act 2: some sort of prolonged back-and-forth conflict, which in action movies usually means a bunch of car chases and/or fight scenes, etc.

Act 3: after seeming to lose against insurmountable odds the protagonists prevail at the last minute and the bad guys meet their doom and the universe is set right again. Yawn.

I find at least 80% of mainstream movies and TV shows available today to be like that, which means I can't stomach more than about 15 minutes of it. The sheer boredom would kill me.

If I had to choose, I would rather experience a movie with interesting/original characters, competent acting and dialogue, a less predictable plot arc, etc. in MONO and on a 32" 480i CRT than the other kind using $50,000 worth of a/v gear which to me would be the definition of putting lipstick on a pig.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #21 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 10:18 AM
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With movies, I think we may have very different thresholds of tolerance for not only flaws in the sound, but also for flaws in the actual CONTENT.

A movie could be presented to me on a flawless TV screen or projector accompanied by a flawless setup of speakers and subs, but all that flawless sound and sight would be completely irrelevant to me if the actual MOVIE ITSELF was a hopeless ordeal of cliched cardboard characters derived from Hollywood formulas and test audience focus groups, the dialogue a bunch of cliched vernacular, and the plot the standard Hollywood 3 act formula:

Act 1: set up easily recognizable and popularly sympathetic characters, and show what's at stake to them and/or THE WORLD.

Act 2: some sort of prolonged back-and-forth conflict, which in action movies usually means a bunch of car chases and/or fight scenes, etc.

Act 3: after seeming to lose against insurmountable odds the protagonists prevail at the last minute and the bad guys meet their doom and the universe is set right again. Yawn.

I find at least 80% of mainstream movies and TV shows available today to be like that, which means I can't stomach more than about 15 minutes of it. The sheer boredom would kill me.

If I had to choose, I would rather experience a movie with interesting/original characters, competent acting and dialogue, a less predictable plot arc, etc. in MONO and on a 32" 480i CRT than the other kind using $50,000 worth of a/v gear which to me would be the definition of putting lipstick on a pig.
Thanks for sharing. It's helpful for people to understand YOUR priorities as they evaluate your speaker suggestions. For those looking to build HT's that can accurately reproduce the big blockbuster action movies, (which I'm guessing is at least 80% of the membership of these fora,) your priorities may not match theirs. They should keep that in mind when putting your suggestions, and your biases, into perspective.

Craig

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"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
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post #22 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 10:36 AM
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I will give the phantom CC test a run. Thanks.
Just be aware that L/R positioning is critical to creating the most convincing phantom center, and the positioning can vary depending on the type of speaker. Some do much better with more toe-in than others. So it pays to spend a lot of time experimenting with your L/R in many slightly different positions to find the optimum phantom center image. Fine tune it to suit your ears.
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post #23 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
For those looking to build HT's that can accurately reproduce the big blockbuster action movies, (which I'm guessing is at least 80% of the membership of these fora,) your priorities may not match theirs.
Well, I don't think your highly rigorous/exacting standards are the norm, either. Quite the opposite.

Most people just want "something that sounds nice." Which means they want the special effects: detail, dynamics, and solid LFE. Better spatial effects than can be had from built in TV speakers, a soundbar or little cube sat system. And of course, not having to turn up the volume just to understand WTH the actors are saying.

They're looking for EXCITEMENT, not necessarily ACCURACY.

All of which can be had for ridiculously little money these days if one knows where to look.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #24 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Thanks for sharing. It's helpful for people to understand YOUR priorities as they evaluate your speaker suggestions. For those looking to build HT's that can accurately reproduce the big blockbuster action movies, (which I'm guessing is at least 80% of the membership of these fora,) your priorities may not match theirs. They should keep that in mind when putting your suggestions, and your biases, into perspective.

Craig

I think what Zorba is saying is the best spec'd speakers and amps, and AVR's in the world can't make badly recorded or processed media sound good. Chasing perfection may lead you to an imperfect result maybe?

AVR: Yamaha TSR-7850, Fronts: DCM TP260, Center: DCM TP160C, Sub: Premier Acoustic PA-150
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post #25 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Deaf-Forever View Post
I think what Zorba is saying is the best spec'd speakers and amps, and AVR's in the world can't make badly recorded or processed media sound good. Chasing perfection may lead you to an imperfect result maybe?
No, read his post again. He's talking about content that he doesn't "appreciate"... not the quality of the recording or the processing. He doesn't have any desire to watch the kinds of movies that are the raison d'être that most AVS members built their HT's, nor the bombastic special effects they want to hear. It is beneath his dignity to watch such mindless and utterly predictable fare.

Quote:
With movies, I think we may have very different thresholds of tolerance for not only flaws in the sound, but also for flaws in the actual CONTENT.

A movie could be presented to me on a flawless TV screen or projector accompanied by a flawless setup of speakers and subs, but all that flawless sound and sight would be completely irrelevant to me if the actual MOVIE ITSELF was a hopeless ordeal of cliched cardboard characters derived from Hollywood formulas and test audience focus groups, the dialogue a bunch of cliched vernacular, and the plot the standard Hollywood 3 act formula:
Etc., etc., etc. Re-read his entire post.

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
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post #26 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Deaf-Forever View Post
I think what Zorba is saying is the best spec'd speakers and amps, and AVR's in the world can't make badly recorded or processed media sound good.

Chasing perfection may lead you to an imperfect result maybe?
No, most of those blockbuster movies are well recorded/processed...nothing wrong with their technical CRAFT, it's the ARTISTIC craft being abysmally lacking which ruins them for me. But that's just me, I realize my artistic standards are not representative of the majority. I don't think the majority are seeking acoustic perfection either, however...they just want the acoustics to enhance or at least not hinder their ENJOYMENT of that content, and I don't think the bar for that is particularly high for the large majority.

I have no problem with anyone chasing perfection because doing so simply comes naturally to them or gives them joy, as it seems to with Craig. Good for them, and may they get (or get closer) to what they seek!

I do have a problem with people (newbies in particular) being led to believe that it's necessary spend and worry far far more than is actually necessary for them to attain the level of movie ENJOYMENT they're looking for.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #27 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 12:09 PM
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It is beneath his dignity to watch such mindless and utterly predictable fare.
"Dignity" has zero to do with it. That's just a petty illusion of the ego.

It's called a GAG REFLEX.

And yes, most people don't have the same gag reflex. Which is perfectly ok, too.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)

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post #28 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Well, I don't think your highly rigorous/exacting standards are the norm, either. Quite the opposite.

Most people just want "something that sounds nice." Which means they want the special effects: detail, dynamics, and solid LFE. Better spatial effects than can be had from built in TV speakers, a soundbar or little cube sat system. And of course, not having to turn up the volume just to understand WTH the actors are saying.

They're looking for EXCITEMENT, not necessarily ACCURACY.

All of which can be had for ridiculously little money these days if one knows where to look.
You continually suggest that people should settle for less than optimal, i.e., mismatched speakers, spending all the budget on the CC while trivializing the other speakers, trivializing surround sound and Amos/3D audio, etc. etc. You ignore science and best practices, and encourage people to make "compromised" decisions.

I suggest that "optimal" is just as obtainable, and at exactly the same price points that "compromised" is attainable. Price is not a variable in the "best practices" equation. Best practices can be followed no matter the price-point. Just follow the guidance of the people who design and manufacture these systems and the results will be much better than making up some $hlT and telling people is OK to do it.

The goal shouldn't be just "better than the TV speakers." The goal should be the most optimal setup at whatever the pricepoint might be. Following the science, (speaker measurements for sound quality and timbre-matching, etc.), proper speaker placement, and configuration of the system will provide the most optimal results.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
My System (Edited Feb. 2020 to add 4K and Atmos updates)
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post #29 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
The goal shouldn't be just "better than the TV speakers." The goal should be the most optimal setup at whatever the pricepoint might be. Following the science, (speaker measurements for sound quality and timbre-matching, etc.), proper speaker placement, and configuration of the system will provide the most optimal results.
I think you'll find that eliminating the word "should" from your cognitive vocabulary, tends to make life much simpler and more enjoyable for all parties.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #30 of 55 Old 05-30-2020, 12:31 PM
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Hehe, I'm sensing a humorous vibe from you. Let me give these Evo's an audition by mid-week. I really want them to work given they're 3-way and have an AMT (which I've never auditioned) on my Brahm's and Rach piano concertos. If I hear a difference over the Silver 2's, I'll spring for 2 more for surrounds and be done with it.....or I could try the Sony NA5ES (ebay at about 1/2 price). Unfortunately hard to find anything to read on those (from users) outside of major magazine reviewers.
While I love my Martin Logan Lx16s and preferred them by a slight margin over the very nice Q Acoustics Concept 20s, the Concept 20s with a soft dome tweeter did sound better with Piano.

Geoff A. J., California
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