Best small subwoofer to match Ascend CBM-170 SE - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 53 Old 05-29-2020, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Best small subwoofer to match Ascend CBM-170 SE

Hello.

I am finally upgrading from my soundbar and have decided on an Ascend CBM-170 SE for front, HTM-200 SE for back and a CMT-340 SE Center. I need the smallest subwoofer I can find that will match well.

My living room is about 13' x 16' and is pretty full of stuff so I need the smallest subwoofer that will do the trick and that will match well with the Ascends. I was looking at the SVS SB-1000 and the Rythmik L12, but would like to spend a bit less if possible.

I will mostly be using it for TV (streaming mostly) but if I actually had decent speakers I would listen to more music in that room.

I also need to find a good amp/receiver but I'll post to that forum.

Thanks, Brad
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post #2 of 53 Old 05-29-2020, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Mathews View Post
Hello.



I am finally upgrading from my soundbar and have decided on an Ascend CBM-170 SE for front, HTM-200 SE for back and a CMT-340 SE Center. I need the smallest subwoofer I can find that will match well.



My living room is about 13' x 16' and is pretty full of stuff so I need the smallest subwoofer that will do the trick and that will match well with the Ascends. I was looking at the SVS SB-1000 and the Rythmik L12, but would like to spend a bit less if possible.



I will mostly be using it for TV (streaming mostly) but if I actually had decent speakers I would listen to more music in that room.



I also need to find a good amp/receiver but I'll post to that forum.



Thanks, Brad
Chane will launch their new subs soon. Subscribe to their newsletter on their website.

https://forum.chanemusiccinema.com/f...d-updated-1-20
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post #3 of 53 Old 05-29-2020, 10:05 PM
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Hi Brad,

and welcome to AVS Forum.

Looks like you're going for small, very capable, and budget friendly. I get it. Which one of those parameters are you willing to stretch ? You just cant get all 3 in one package. Sorry to be the bearer of the truth, but best to get that out of the way .

Joseph

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post #4 of 53 Old 05-29-2020, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
Chane will launch their new subs soon. Subscribe to their newsletter on their website.
Intriguing idea, getting in on the ground floor of a new product. Price (what we know of it) seems right. But also risky as it seems no one outside of Chane has heard them.
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post #5 of 53 Old 05-29-2020, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad Mathews View Post
Intriguing idea, getting in on the ground floor of a new product. Price (what we know of it) seems right. But also risky as it seems no one outside of Chane has heard them.
The subs are based off the Snell basis line.

http://www.soundstagexperience.com/e...ll_series7.htm
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post #6 of 53 Old 05-29-2020, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post
welcome to AVS Forum.

Looks like you're going for small, very capable, and budget friendly. I get it. Which one of those parameters are you willing to stretch ? You just cant get all 3 in one package. Sorry to be the bearer of the truth, but best to get that out of the way .

Joseph
Thanks!

Ah yes, the dreaded parameter triangle. Pick two only. Small size (for the sub and surrounds) is a fixed corner. I don't want to limit capability in such a way as to waste the investment in the rest of my equipment. As a practical penny pincher with a taste for quality, I don't want to pay for what I don't need, but will pay what I must.

- Brad
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post #7 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 08:30 AM
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If the SVS SB-1000 is your baseline you're not going to find much smaller than 13.5" x 13" x 14", and the price you're trying to undercut is $499. That's a tough combination to beat. You might want to check the SVS Outlet section of their website to see if you could save a few bucks with a refurb SB-1000 (they aren't always in stock). If you could put up with slightly larger 16” x 15” x 16 3/4” you could save $100 with the $399 RSL Speedwoofer 10S which is highly rated at that price point. RSL also has an Outlet section where you can save a few bucks on refurbs.
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post #8 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 09:31 AM
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Emotiva Airmotive s8 @ 299 is less than 1 Cu ft., or Outlaw M8 (its about the same size as the SVS SB1000) but only 329... Kanto S8 @ 289...

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post #9 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Mathews View Post
I am finally upgrading from my soundbar and have decided on an Ascend CBM-170 SE for front, HTM-200 SE for back and a CMT-340 SE Center. I need the smallest subwoofer I can find that will match well.

My living room is about 13' x 16' and is pretty full of stuff so I need the smallest subwoofer that will do the trick and that will match well with the Ascends. I was looking at the SVS SB-1000 and the Rythmik L12, but would like to spend a bit less if possible.

I will mostly be using it for TV (streaming mostly) but if I actually had decent speakers I would listen to more music in that room.
Is that 13 x 16' fully enclosed, or is it open to other adjacent rooms?

I would try the $400 RSL Speedwoofer 10S for the best combination of budget, size, and performance. And unlike all the other subs you're considering, it comes with free return shipping so it's a no-brainer to try out first.

Otherwise, I'd probalby take the sealed Monolith 10" THX sub at $500 over both the SB1000 and L12 especially if your room is open plan.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #10 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 12:19 PM
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Please don't laugh at this, but the Martin Logan Dynamo subs, when they are on sale (as they are at BestBuy right now) are actually a decent recommendation for "musical" subs. With the ability of using ARC Genesis (from Anthem) you can tune them to your room to your heart's content.
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post #11 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Mathews View Post
Hello.

I am finally upgrading from my soundbar and have decided on an Ascend CBM-170 SE for front, HTM-200 SE for back and a CMT-340 SE Center. I need the smallest subwoofer I can find that will match well.

My living room is about 13' x 16' and is pretty full of stuff so I need the smallest subwoofer that will do the trick and that will match well with the Ascends. I was looking at the SVS SB-1000 and the Rythmik L12, but would like to spend a bit less if possible.

I will mostly be using it for TV (streaming mostly) but if I actually had decent speakers I would listen to more music in that room.

I also need to find a good amp/receiver but I'll post to that forum.

Thanks, Brad
The RSL has been deemed a very musical sub which likely would best fit your needs.
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post #12 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 05:45 PM
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+1 on the RSL SW10. I got one 3 months ago and it is an awesome performer for $399
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post #13 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
The RSL has been deemed a very musical sub which likely would best fit your needs.
i think i agree that at regular price the best budget sub going is the rsl... at sales price i might try the jbl 550p (when it's down to about $200)...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigpig View Post
Please don't laugh at this, but the Martin Logan Dynamo subs, when they are on sale (as they are at BestBuy right now) are actually a decent recommendation for "musical" subs. With the ability of using ARC Genesis (from Anthem) you can tune them to your room to your heart's content.
The 400 series Dynamos are the right size. Do you think the 8" is big enough to satisfy my room size and keep up the the Ascends? smithsabom also recommends 3 different 8" subs.

There are many thumbs up for the RSL, but unfortunately it will be too big . And to answer Zorba922's question, my living room is closed off except stairs to the second floor in one corner (where a surround will be), a doorway to the kitchen and the front door.

Will a smaller driver in a less cramped case be overall better for me than shoehorning a 12" driver into an 8" box? Or will the extra driver size still be superior?

Any thumbs up for 8" and any votes on the 4 candidates presented? Or should I just shut up about the price and and buy the SVS SB-1000?

Thanks!
Brad
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post #15 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 09:15 PM
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Add the XTZ 8.17 to the list of options:

https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/sub-17-series

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #16 of 53 Old 05-30-2020, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Mathews View Post
The 400 series Dynamos are the right size. Do you think the 8" is big enough to satisfy my room size and keep up the the Ascends? smithsabom also recommends 3 different 8" subs.

There are many thumbs up for the RSL, but unfortunately it will be too big . And to answer Zorba922's question, my living room is closed off except stairs to the second floor in one corner (where a surround will be), a doorway to the kitchen and the front door.

Will a smaller driver in a less cramped case be overall better for me than shoehorning a 12" driver into an 8" box? Or will the extra driver size still be superior?

Any thumbs up for 8" and any votes on the 4 candidates presented? Or should I just shut up about the price and and buy the SVS SB-1000?
If that doorway to the kitchen is open, i.e. has no door that you can close, then you have to include the cubic feet of the kitchen as part of the total space that the sub will interact with, as well as the space upstairs that's open to that stairway. And with a lousy 75 watts of power continuous, I honestly think you're making a big mistake going with the Dynamo...I would get at least a pair.

The Emotiva S8 is actually smaller (11-3/4” high x 11-3/4” wide x 11-3/4” deep) than the Dynamo (13-5/16"W x 15-1/4"H x 13-3/4"D) yet has 200 watts of continuous power.

Unless you seldom watch blockbuster action/thriller content, I would gladly take a mere 2" wider, 3/4" taller, and 3" deeper for the RSL sub (H: 16” W: 15” D: 16 3/4”) in order to get 350 watts and output down into the low 20Hz area, in comparison to the ML.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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I am still pretty impressed at the rsl subwoofer. For the price, and its size it really does a good job. I don't have many negatives in regards to the sound at all. It does dig pretty low for a 10 inch vented sub in a small package, that is relatively inexpensive. It is also pretty good musically as well. I did check their site earlier in the week, and I saw they were backed up in the order fulfillment. They were sold out of the subwoofer, and I believe something else. Supplies were going to be available sometime in June.
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post #18 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Mathews View Post
The 400 series Dynamos are the right size. Do you think the 8" is big enough to satisfy my room size and keep up the the Ascends? smithsabom also recommends 3 different 8" subs.

There are many thumbs up for the RSL, but unfortunately it will be too big . And to answer Zorba922's question, my living room is closed off except stairs to the second floor in one corner (where a surround will be), a doorway to the kitchen and the front door.

Will a smaller driver in a less cramped case be overall better for me than shoehorning a 12" driver into an 8" box? Or will the extra driver size still be superior?

Any thumbs up for 8" and any votes on the 4 candidates presented? Or should I just shut up about the price and and buy the SVS SB-1000?

Thanks!
Brad
In my secondary music room which is 35x15 or so I have my music setup in the narrow end of the room and ONE 50watt RMS 8" Yamaha SW012 would have been enough if I could have set it up near the front three which I could not so I added a second to reduce localization so, yes, IMHO, a single Dynamo 400 would be just fine for music.

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post #19 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
IMHO, a single Dynamo 400 would be just fine for music.
OP's usage doesn't seem to be music:
Quote:
I will mostly be using it for TV (streaming mostly)
Also, the Dynamo even on sale is $337, only $63 less than the much more capable RSL sub.

I could understand if it were $150, which is what the older version ML Dynamo 8" sub used to be sold for on Amazon, but this is a ridiculously poor value IMO.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #20 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
OP's usage doesn't seem to be music:


Also, the Dynamo even on sale is $337, only $63 less than the much more capable RSL sub.

I could understand if it were $150, which is what the older version ML Dynamo 8" sub used to be sold for on Amazon, but this is a ridiculously poor value IMO.
Then it would seem the SB1000 is the logical choice.

Free returns if not happy.

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post #21 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 11:50 AM
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Then it would seem the SB1000 is the logical choice.

Free returns if not happy.
Yeah, SVS free return shipping is very nice. I would be shocked if the SB1000 being sealed is going to produce even half as much output as the front-vented RSL sub, though...relevant due to the OP's room seeming to be open to two other rooms.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #22 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
OP's usage doesn't seem to be music:


Also, the Dynamo even on sale is $337, only $63 less than the much more capable RSL sub.

I could understand if it were $150, which is what the older version ML Dynamo 8" sub used to be sold for on Amazon, but this is a ridiculously poor value IMO.
I picked up a SVS SB-1000 ($350, clearance) to fill out the lower octave(s) of my Ascend CBM-170's; upgrade from 2.0 -> 2.1. Room is 12x15x8. Works for music, but is seriously lame for HT.
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post #23 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by scotthal View Post
I picked up a SVS SB-1000 ($350, clearance) to fill out the lower octave(s) of my Ascend CBM-170's; upgrade from 2.0 -> 2.1. Room is 12x15x8. Works for music, but is seriously lame for HT.
Yep, that's exactly what I would have expected.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Yeah, SVS free return shipping is very nice. I would be shocked if the SB1000 being sealed is going to produce even half as much output as the front-vented RSL sub, though...relevant due to the OP's room seeming to be open to two other rooms.
Rule of thumb is same amp, same size driver, 40 percent more maximum SPL for a ported sub vs the same manufacturer's sealed sub.

Even in my secondary room I don't use the maximum possible SPLs of my two small 8" ported subs so the OP in his smallish room might be just fine.

At least no port chuffing to worry about!

Interestingly well renowned subwoofer reviewer Brent Buttwerworth is now at The Wirecutter an did SPL testing on a bunch of subs including the two we are talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/r...ofer-for-home/


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post #25 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Rule of thumb is same amp, same size driver, 40 percent more maximum SPL for a ported sub vs the same manufacturer's sealed sub.

Even in my secondary room I don't use the maximum possible SPLs of my two small 8" ported subs so the OP in his smallish room might be just fine.

At least no port chuffing to worry about!

Interestingly well renowned subwoofer reviewer Brent Buttwerworth is now at The Wirecutter an did SPL testing on a bunch of subs including the two we are talking about.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/r...ofer-for-home/

Interesting, according to those measurements (if my color vision is still ok) the SB1000 and RSL 10S are quite close in output.

Yet I have come across numerous postings by people who buy the SB1000 and (like scotthal) are dismayed by its HT performance; almost none about the RSL sub. It may not go as low as a $600 sub but I have never seen anyone complain about any lack of HT output.

This may be yet another example where I'd trust anecdotal feedback more than measurements.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #26 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Interesting, according to those measurements (if my color vision is still ok) the SB1000 and RSL 10S are quite close in output.

Yet I have come across numerous postings by people who buy the SB1000 and (like scotthal) are dismayed by its HT performance; almost none about the RSL sub. It may not go as low as a $600 sub but I have never seen anyone complain about any lack of HT output.

This may be yet another example where I'd trust anecdotal feedback more than measurements.
It looks like the SB1000 is about 3db down on the RSL at 31.5hz and a noticeable 6db down at 25hz.

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post #27 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 12:40 PM
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It looks like the SB1000 is about 3db down on the RSL at 31.5hz and a noticeable 6db down at 25hz.
Ah, I must be going color blind then, lol.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #28 of 53 Old 05-31-2020, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, this has been a very educational thread!

So if I am understanding everything correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong,

1. I will get more oomph (SPL) with a ported sub, so getting a smaller ported sub could get me more HT performance than the sealed 12"
2. If I close my kitchen door while watching an action flick (romcoms are probably not a problem ), I won't be wasting energy on the other half of the first floor and will not need as powerful a sub to get the effect I want.
3. A larger driver will get to lower frequencies, so going with a smaller driver will have that tradeoff.

So comparing the recommended ported subs that fit my size requirements and I can actually buy here in the states (sorry XTZ, you looked promising!), all are 8".
Airmotiv S8: 33 Hz - 200 Hz, 200w, $299
Outlaw M8: 29 - 250hz, 125w, $329
Dynamo 400: 30 - 200hz, 75w, $449

Here are a couple more I spotted while ogling the first batch:

Aperion Audio Bravus II 8D: 32Hz - 350Hz, 300w, $399
Episode Element 8, 22 - 200hz, 260w, $250 on eBay.

The Dynamo is just not a good value in comparison. So between the other four, if the specs on the Episode Element are legit, that seems like a no brainer.

If someone snatches it out from under me, or the specs are BS, what do I want, more watts or lower range? I would think more range as 125W is probably plenty for my small room (with the door closed.)

Continued thanks,
Brad
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post #29 of 53 Old 06-01-2020, 01:48 AM
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Aperion Audio Bravus II 8D ClassD 300W Small size Subwoofer, maybe can be a option.



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post #30 of 53 Old 06-01-2020, 01:50 AM
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I bought an episode es12 300 about 8 years ago. I really liked the specs. Long story short, 2 years ago the plate amp went out. tried getting a hold of episode directly, and they sent me to snap av. After a few weeks of back and forth trying to get a plate amp, I just gave up. Just wanted to know if I could purchase a plate amp.
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