Upgrading old M&K 750 system to Atmos? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Upgrading old M&K 750 system to Atmos?

I have an old M&K 750 THX Select 5.1 system on my home theater. Is it possible to add on speakers to make a setup like this work well with Atmos? (Matched timbre.)

Up-firing speakers are preferable, only because I doubt a ceiling mount would be possible. The ceiling is not very high and the room isn't very large in general.

I don't see anything specific to Atmos even mentioned on M&K's website.
Once that's said, is it even worth going Atmos with up-firing speakers?
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
I have an old M&K 750 THX Select 5.1 system on my home theater. Is it possible to add on speakers to make a setup like this work well with Atmos? (Matched timbre.)

Up-firing speakers are preferable, only because I doubt a ceiling mount would be possible. The ceiling is not very high and the room isn't very large in general.

I don't see anything specific to Atmos even mentioned on M&K's website.
Once that's said, is it even worth going Atmos with up-firing speakers?
"Timbre matching" is even more irrelevant with Atmos speakers, since they do even less of the output than bed layer surrounds.

Up-firing is considered the least desirable Atmos option, but you could always try out some upfiring speakers that have easy return policies...better yet, you could use a compact sealed speaker placed on top of your M&K speakers or wall mounted just under the ceiling, tilted downwards.

RSL CG3 at $135 come with free return shipping.
NHT SuperZeros at $70 apiece from Amazon would also be easily returnable.

If you're irreparably concerned about "timbre" then Ascend 200SE (roughly $150 apiece) might be your best bet...Ascend's owner/designer used to work for M&K and has a similar design philosophy.
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post #3 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, up-firing always did sound sketchy as a concept.
I like the wall mount idea, but my current set up has the rear speakers flat against the rear wall firing in at the listener 2-3 feet overhead.
It's probably already incorrect for a standard 5.1 although they were setup with a mic'ed Audyssey system.
Should they be moved if down firing speakers are added? (Heck, should they be moved now?)

I suppose if I wall mounted, I could probably get more M&K's. What are the requirements for "ceiling" mount speakers? Are they just another pair of rear speakers or are they not that robust?
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post #4 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 01:04 PM
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What are the requirements for "ceiling" mount speakers? Are they just another pair of rear speakers or are they not that robust?
If flush-mounting ON the ceiling, I'd want a sealed cabinet or front ported design, not rear ported.

If mounted FROM the ceiling hanging down, I'd want a relatively light and compact design but with a minimum woofer size of 4" ... the Ascend 200SE have the blessing of DUAL 4" woofers while being only slightly bigger than most single 4" woofer bookshelves. They have the advantage of rolling off at 70Hz which means you should get fuller sounding effects than something that rolls off around 100Hz or higher.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I noticed that M&K seems to be using tripole SUR55T as their surround speakers with the 750s. My older setup uses the SURROUND-550 model.
I'm wondering if the 550's would make better ceiling mounts and getting some of the SURR55T to replace my current rears.
Still it looks like the SUR55T are just over 10 pounds and the SURROUND-550s are 13.5lbs.
Both seem awfully heavy to hang over your head.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
I noticed that M&K seems to be using tripole SUR55T as their surround speakers with the 750s. My older setup uses the SURROUND-550 model.
I'm wondering if the 550's would make better ceiling mounts and getting some of the SURR55T to replace my current rears.
Still it looks like the SUR55T are just over 10 pounds and the SURROUND-550s are 13.5lbs.
Both seem awfully heavy to hang over your head.
As long as you can find a solid beam or joist, 10-13.5lbs should be fine.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #7 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Eek. I didn't remember the M&K's being THAT expensive 4 figures per speaker. Maybe I'll check out some of your other suggestions. The Ascend 200SE is sounding pretty good right now (at a tenth of the price!).
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 03:16 PM
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Eek. I didn't remember the M&K's being THAT expensive 4 figures per speaker. Maybe I'll check out some of your other suggestions. The Ascend 200SE is sounding pretty good right now (at a tenth of the price!).
Yikes, $1500 for an Atmos speaker??? That's nuts. You'd either have to be filthy rich, or born yesterday.
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~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #9 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Yikes, $1500 for an Atmos speaker??? That's nuts. You'd either have to be filthy rich, or born yesterday.
ONE speaker! Unbelievable.

I'm not married to the Ascend idea, but do you have a link to info about the owner/designer that you mentioned?
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 04:48 PM
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I'm not married to the Ascend idea, but do you have a link to info about the owner/designer that you mentioned?
He has a LinkedIn listing which probably has previous employment listed (I deleted my L.I. account a long time ago) and there's mention of the M&K connection in this review:
https://www.highfidelityreview.com/a...mt-340-se.html

Google can probably unearth more, I'm just lazy.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 08:25 PM
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If you want to use small M&K speakers, try the K5’s. Nice solid small speakers that sound nice.


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post #12 of 16 Old 06-08-2020, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I got a reply from Ascend today:
Quote:
I am intimately familiar with your 750THX system as I am the engineer who designed both the crossover for those speakers and the angled tweeter design... Without question, yes - our HTM-200's would be the perfect match for Atmos height speakers. Nothing in our lineup would match better...
I do want to ask again, should the height of my rear speakers be adjusted? It didn't seem an issue when it was a 5.1 setup (in fact it always gave us a synthertic height feel before there WAS an Atmos), but the height element seems wrong if there will be downfiring speakers right near them. (post 3: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post59751306)

Also, should those rear speakers fire directly towards the listener or forward? I've always been a bit unsure of that.

Thanks for all the help. Now I need to figure out if the Dolby Atmos Virtualizer is worth it.
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-08-2020, 03:01 PM
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Surrounds are to the sides (90-110 degrees), and Rears should be in-line with your mains pointing forward, no more than 1/2-way up the wall, assuming they are not blocked by furniture. Atmos speakers should be about 45 degrees forward and back of the MLP; again, assuming you have the room.
Those HTM-200SE speakers would be excellent Atmos Front/Rear Height speakers.

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post #14 of 16 Old 06-08-2020, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I'm confused. For 5.1.2, my back speakers are considered 'surrounds' and firing in towards the viewer is correct(?)
Rear would be with 7.x.x and would need a position behind the viewer firing forwards.

Again, do you think the height of my current speakers are an issue?
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-08-2020, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
I guess I'm confused. For 5.1.2, my back speakers are considered 'surrounds' and firing in towards the viewer is correct(?)
Rear would be with 7.x.x and would need a position behind the viewer firing forwards.

Again, do you think the height of my current speakers are an issue?
Read my post.
I already said that the surround speakers should be no more than half-way up the wall. For 5.1.2, I would indeed aim them toward you.
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Basement 5.1.4: Anthem MRX 720, Monoprice 2-channel amp, Paradigm Prestige 85F/55C/15B. PSB Alpha A1/P3 for Atmos HSU STF-2, ATV4K, XBox OneS, Harmony Ultimate, Samsung 65" Q7D.
Living room: Yamaha YSP-6000 with 10" Yamaha sub, ATV3, Harmony Ultimate, 55" Insignia 1080P.
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post #16 of 16 Old 06-08-2020, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you did say that. Sorry.
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