Paradigm Monitor SE 6000F vs Polk Audio S60 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tachead7075 View Post
BB Canada has open box LSI705's for $799 & $819 Canadian(each) right now just as an example(not refurbished, brand new open box). So, $1600 for a set. Even with the current 25% off sale at Para I am looking at $1500 for a set of 800F's and $1000 for 6000F. I have also seen even better sales at times.

I wonder how the RTI9 and Signature Series S60 would compare to the 6000F and 800F?
I'd stick to the 6000F for $1K if I were you.

You don't need bigger drivers if you're going to be getting the PB2000 anyhow, and I doubt the LSi705 is going to be any big improvement over those Paradigms.

The RTi and Signature series are not in the same league as the LSi, especially not for music.

What % of your usage do you guesstimate will be music, btw?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #32 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I'd stick to the 6000F for $1K if I were you.



You don't need bigger drivers if you're going to be getting the PB2000 anyhow, and I doubt the LSi705 is going to be any big improvement over those Paradigms.



The RTi and Signature series are not in the same league as the LSi, especially not for music.



What % of your usage do you guesstimate will be music, btw?
Yeah, that was where I was leaning but, now another poster has me considering the benefits of a 3-way center and I definitely want my FCR to all 100% timber match from the same brand and line. So, that means 700F or 800F with 500 or 600C if I want the three way.

But, wouldn't larger drivers or more of them in the towers give me a better listening experience due to higher impact/punch in the mid bass frequencies?

Yes, but how would they compare to the 6000F, 700F, and 800F I wonder? The RTI's I have heard sounded pretty good aside from maybe a touch bright due to the Silk dome tweeters(definitely no where near the LSI's ring radiators). The bass and midrange output was descent but, I only had a quick listen.

I'm building on a 50/50 split. Right now I probably am at 75% HT/25% Music but, that is because I don't have a good system and listen on an Audio Pro Addon T3 Bluetooth speaker most of the time. Once I get the new rig I suspect I will listen to a lot more music(maybe even more then HT).





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post #33 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 10:30 AM
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Yeah, that was where I was leaning but, now another poster has me considering the benefits of a 3-way center and I definitely want my FCR to all 100% timber match from the same brand and line. So, that means 700F or 800F with 500 or 600C if I want the three way.
3 identical speakers in vertical alignment for the front stage are the ONLY way to get a true "timbre match"---and they're worth the trouble only if: 1) You listen to a lot of music in upmixed fake surround mode or "all channel stereo" mode, 2) You do a lot of multi-channel gaming, or 3) you are an extremely picky/fastidious user who LISTENS to movies instead of WATCHING them like most people.

1. I've had a "matching" LCR of 3 identical front speakers, with the L/R vertical and the C horizontal.
2. I've had a "quasi-matching" LCR of 2 bookshelves and 1 horizontal center from the same brand and model family.
3. I've had a "mismatched" set of a horizontal center from a completely different brand and different tweeter type than the L/R speakers.
4. I've had a "mismatched" set of 2 bookshelves with a 3rd bookshelf of a different brand in the center position standing up, aligned with the L/R.
5. I've had a "mismatched" set of 2 bookshelves with a 3rd bookshelf of a different brand in the center position on its side.

And the only two conclusions I can derive from my experience with any degree of certainty are:
I. #4 usually sounds a bit better than #5 . And even then, #5 doesn't apply if all 3 speakers are of a concentric design.
II. The perceptible SQ difference between #1 , 2, and 3 are NEGLIGIBLE as long as the horizontal center speaker is a good one.

There are however 3 rough "working" rules that I have inferred from my experience:

a. A crappy center speaker (mainly one lacking in adequate voice clarity) is a crappy center speaker which will severely hamper your HT enjoyment, whether it "matches" the other speakers or not. Do *not* tolerate a crappy center speaker merely for the sake of some ivory-tower ideal. (Pioneer Andrew Jones CP22 and Polk CS1/2/10/20 are the most infamous examples.) The center speaker does 70-80% of the HT/TV output and 98% of the DIALOGUE. It is *the* true workhorse/backbone of any HT setup and thus the absolute LAST place you should ever cut corners. Smaller centers 4.5" or smaller woofers) almost always produce tinny voices and often, terrible voice clarity.

b. A very good bookshelf speaker used in the center position that is identical to the L/R bookshelf speakers, will sound very good...BUT at moderately loud or louder volumes, it will still not sound quite as "big" (involving, dramatic, vivid, immersive, etc.) as a very good horizontal center speaker that has double or more the surface area in woofers, esp. a 3-way design that minimizes lobing such as the Emotiva centers. The exceptions might be with very high-sensitivity single woofer designs like the PSA MT-110 which are already extremely dynamic and clear by themselves.

c. If #3 best fits your budget and WAF requirements, by all means do it. Don't overthink this silly hobby, it's not worth it...just get the best you can with what budget you have, then sit back and (gasp!) ENJOY what you have. Don't become a chronic, obsessive gearhead...that will only suck the life and joy out of everything.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #34 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
3 identical speakers in vertical alignment for the front stage are the ONLY way to get a true "timbre match"---and they're worth the trouble only if: 1) You listen to a lot of music in upmixed fake surround mode or "all channel stereo" mode, 2) You do a lot of multi-channel gaming, or 3) you are an extremely picky/fastidious user who LISTENS to movies instead of WATCHING them like most people.



1. I've had a "matching" LCR of 3 identical front speakers, with the L/R vertical and the C horizontal.

2. I've had a "quasi-matching" LCR of 2 bookshelves and 1 horizontal center from the same brand and model family.

3. I've had a "mismatched" set of a horizontal center from a completely different brand and different tweeter type than the L/R speakers.

4. I've had a "mismatched" set of 2 bookshelves with a 3rd bookshelf of a different brand in the center position standing up, aligned with the L/R.

5. I've had a "mismatched" set of 2 bookshelves with a 3rd bookshelf of a different brand in the center position on its side.



And the only two conclusions I can derive from my experience with any degree of certainty are:

I. #4 usually sounds a bit better than #5 . And even then, #5 doesn't apply if all 3 speakers are of a concentric design.

II. The perceptible SQ difference between #1 , 2, and 3 are NEGLIGIBLE as long as the horizontal center speaker is a good one.



There are however 3 rough "working" rules that I have inferred from my experience:



a. A crappy center speaker (mainly one lacking in adequate voice clarity) is a crappy center speaker which will severely hamper your HT enjoyment, whether it "matches" the other speakers or not. Do *not* tolerate a crappy center speaker merely for the sake of some ivory-tower ideal. (Pioneer Andrew Jones CP22 and Polk CS1/2/10/20 are the most infamous examples.) The center speaker does 70-80% of the HT/TV output and 98% of the DIALOGUE. It is *the* true workhorse/backbone of any HT setup and thus the absolute LAST place you should ever cut corners. Smaller centers 4.5" or smaller woofers) almost always produce tinny voices and often, terrible voice clarity.



b. A very good bookshelf speaker used in the center position that is identical to the L/R bookshelf speakers, will sound very good...BUT at moderately loud or louder volumes, it will still not sound quite as "big" (involving, dramatic, vivid, immersive, etc.) as a very good horizontal center speaker that has double or more the surface area in woofers, esp. a 3-way design that minimizes lobing such as the Emotiva centers. The exceptions might be with very high-sensitivity single woofer designs like the PSA MT-110 which are already extremely dynamic and clear by themselves.



c. If #3 best fits your budget and WAF requirements, by all means do it. Don't overthink this silly hobby, it's not worth it...just get the best you can with what budget you have, then sit back and (gasp!) ENJOY what you have. Don't become a chronic, obsessive gearhead...that will only suck the life and joy out of everything.
Thanks for that, quite helpful.

What do you think of the 500C for a center? At least one reviewer in the Para thread didn't like it at all compared to the 600C and said it had some issues. The issue is a 600C will not fit on my TV stand and would require a complete redesign of the setup and a bunch more money for a new stand.

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post #35 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tachead7075 View Post
BB Canada has open box LSI705's for $799 & $819 Canadian(each) right now just as an example(not refurbished, brand new open box). So, $1600 for a set. Even with the current 25% off sale at Para I am looking at $1500 for a set of 800F's and $1000 for 6000F. I have also seen even better sales at times.

I wonder how the RTI A9 and Signature Series S60 would compare to the 6000F and 800F?

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$1600 is still quite pricey for the LSiM line, considering that Polk has discontinued them altogether. The US has been getting ridiculous deals on that series for a while, now while we're stuck with paying top dollar. The RTiA9s would be pretty good, I think (BB sometimes puts a PAIR of them on sale for ~$800 CAD). I had the RTiA3/A1s for my HT and they were actually really nice for HT. I swapped it all out for KEFs because the wife had complained about the dialog volume from the CSiA6 (which was really just the clarity, not necessarily the volume level). I only swapped them out completely because I'm OCD like that with having matching speakers all around, but it's purely for aesthetics (also a killer deal on a pair of Q750s came up right when I got my tax return).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachead7075 View Post
Yeah, that was where I was leaning but, now another poster has me considering the benefits of a 3-way center and I definitely want my FCR to all 100% timber match from the same brand and line. So, that means 700F or 800F with 500 or 600C if I want the three way.
I wouldn't worry too much about timbre matching - As mentioned above, I swapped out my Polks for KEFs, and while I was waiting on my Q750s to arrive, I set up my Q650c, and didn't notice a single bit of difference when the sound panned across the front between the RTiA3s and Q650c.

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post #36 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tachead7075 View Post
What do you think of the 500C for a center? At least one reviewer in the Para thread didn't like it at all compared to the 600C and said it had some issues. The issue is a 600C will not fit on my TV stand and would require a complete redesign of the setup and a bunch more money for a new stand.
The 500c has 4" woofers, I wouldn't be surprised if that has something to do with it. You want your center to have a minimum of 5.25" woofers.

If it were me, I'd do ANYTHING it takes to make room for a really good center:

1. Prop the TV up on something to make more room
2. Move the TV up if it's wall mounted
3. Get a whole new media cabinet that has room for a DECENT center speaker (7-9 inches height)
4. Get a center speaker stand and put the center just in front of the media stand, like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Sanus-SFC22-B...+speaker+stand

If only #3 is feasible for you, I'd downgrade the front L/R from towers to bookshelves if needed to stay in budget...with a PB2000 and your usage being mostly movies/TV it is very doubtful you'd notice any significant difference.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #37 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I think with the right sales, I can pull off this setup with a slight bump in budget(around $6K total without cables)...

Amp - Denon AVR-X3700H

L/R - Paradigm Premier 800F x 2
C - Paradigm Premier 500C
Surrounds - Paradigm Premier 200B x 2

Subwoofer - SVS PB-2000 Pro

The surrounds are likely overkill but, they match and have 6.5" drivers to match the 800F's when I want to listen to quad or all channel surround for music or games. I think they are worth the added expense in the long run and my GF will much prefer if they all match aesthetics wise.


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post #38 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tachead7075 View Post
I think with the right sales, I can pull off this setup with a slight bump in budget(around $6K total without cables)...

Amp - Denon AVR-X3700H

L/R - Paradigm Premier 800F x 2
C - Paradigm Premier 500C
Surrounds - Paradigm Premier 200B x 2

Subwoofer - SVS PB-2000 Pro

The surrounds are likely overkill but, they match and have 6.5" drivers to match the 800F's when I want to listen to quad or all channel surround for music or games. I think they are worth the added expense in the long run and my GF will much prefer if they all match aesthetics wise.
Sounds great!

You know to give a wide berth to overpriced exotic audiophool cables, right?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #39 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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The 500c has 4" woofers, I wouldn't be surprised if that has something to do with it. You want your center to have a minimum of 5.25" woofers.



If it were me, I'd do ANYTHING it takes to make room for a really good center:



1. Prop the TV up on something to make more room

2. Move the TV up if it's wall mounted

3. Get a whole new media cabinet that has room for a DECENT center speaker (7-9 inches height)

4. Get a center speaker stand and put the center just in front of the media stand, like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Sanus-SFC22-B...+speaker+stand



If only #3 is feasible for you, I'd downgrade the front L/R from towers to bookshelves if needed to stay in budget...with a PB2000 and your usage being mostly movies/TV it is very doubtful you'd notice any significant difference.
500C has a single 4" midrange and 2 x 5.5" woofers...
https://i.imgur.com/qK9mNGI.jpg

Yeah, I really don't want to do this twice so, I need to pick the right center the first time. Unfortunately I am OCD and my GF will whine so, the center must be the same brand and series as the L&R. This is getting hard to figure out and I haven't even listened yet lol. I really don't want to spend more money in a wall mount or tv stand as I am already maxing the budget for this build(and my current TV stand is in perfect shape and nice enough). I am trying to stay sub $5K but, might be able to stretch to 6K if I absolutely have to. I jusy have many hobbies and Audio takes a back seat to some of them so, I need to stay on budget while still doing the best I can for the money.

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post #40 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tachead7075 View Post
I think with the right sales, I can pull off this setup with a slight bump in budget(around $6K total without cables)...

Amp - Denon AVR-X3700H
Unless you were planning on jumping into 8K, I'd look at current gen AVRs. If you can find a cheap X3600H or X4500H, either of those would be fine. Gibbys B-Stock would be an option I'd look into. I got a B-Stock Marantz SR6014 from them for 50% off the retail, and it was in mint condition.
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post #41 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds great!



You know to give a wide berth to overpriced exotic audiophool cables, right?
Definitely. I am thinking 12 gauge oxygen free copper all around with Bananas. Is it even worth going with something like Austere Audio V Series cable or is just an generic OFC good enough?

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$1600 is still quite pricey for the LSiM line, considering that Polk has discontinued them altogether. The US has been getting ridiculous deals on that series for a while, now while we're stuck with paying top dollar. The RTiA9s would be pretty good, I think (BB sometimes puts a PAIR of them on sale for ~$800 CAD). I had the RTiA3/A1s for my HT and they were actually really nice for HT. I swapped it all out for KEFs because the wife had complained about the dialog volume from the CSiA6 (which was really just the clarity, not necessarily the volume level). I only swapped them out completely because I'm OCD like that with having matching speakers all around, but it's purely for aesthetics (also a killer deal on a pair of Q750s came up right when I got my tax return).







I wouldn't worry too much about timbre matching - As mentioned above, I swapped out my Polks for KEFs, and while I was waiting on my Q750s to arrive, I set up my Q650c, and didn't notice a single bit of difference when the sound panned across the front between the RTiA3s and Q650c.
Ok, good to know, thanks. Unfortunately I am also OCD about matching speakers(especially RCL) and my gf would like them to match as well.

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post #43 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Unless you were planning on jumping into 8K, I'd look at current gen AVRs. If you can find a cheap X3600H or X4500H, either of those would be fine. Gibbys B-Stock would be an option I'd look into. I got a B-Stock Marantz SR6014 from them for 50% off the retail, and it was in mint condition.
Nope, no 8K for me(not even 4K lol). I am still running 1080P and will until my 52" Samsung dies(even if it's another 5 years). I would actually prefer the 3600H but, I doubt I will find one for a descent price when I am ready to buy. I am not real set on an AVR and will likely go with what I can get a good deal on from Denon/Marantz or Anthem.

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Definitely. I am thinking 12 gauge oxygen free copper all around with Bananas. Is it even worth going with something like Austere Audio V Series cable or is just an generic OFC good enough?
Generic for sure. Amazon has a good selection: Amazon Basics, Mediabridge, Monoprice, etc.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Generic for sure. Amazon has a good selection: Amazon Basics, Mediabridge, Monoprice, etc.
10-4, thanks.

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A little off topic for the thread title but, what do you guys think of the SVS Prime Tower Surround System and Prime Pinnacle Surround System?

I can't help but, think I should consider it as I could grab the Prime system, 2 x Prime Elevation, and a PB-2000 Pro and be done. The whole system would match and look great. The question is how do they sound? That is a problem as I don't see anyway I could hear them and would likely have to order unheard.

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post #47 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 12:09 PM
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Ok, good to know, thanks. Unfortunately I am also OCD about matching speakers(especially RCL) and my gf would like them to match as well.
If you're fine with their looks, I'd seriously consider the Emotivas. They're reasonably-priced (even with the exchange, and you can switch to CAD on the site to see what our cost is), and phenomenal performers by just about every account I've seen here.

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Nope, no 8K for me(not even 4K lol). I am still running 1080P and will until my 52" Samsung dies(even if it's another 5 years). I would actually prefer the 3600H but, I doubt I will find one for a descent price when I am ready to buy. I am not real set on an AVR and will likely go with what I can get a good deal on from Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, and Anthem.

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Keep an eye on Gibbys' website, they have good deals on AVRs sometimes. They have the 3700H listed, and it's not nearly as bad as I was expecting, but it's still steep IMO.

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A little off topic for the thread title but, what do you guys think of the SVS Prime Tower Surround System and Prime Pinnacle Surround System?

I can't help but, think I should consider it as I could grab the Prime system, 2 x Prime Elevation, and a PB-2000 Pro and be done. The whole system would match and look great. The question is how do they sound? That is a problem as I don't see anyway I could hear them and would likely have to order unheard.
I home auditioned the SVS Prime bookshelves a couple years ago...they'd be ok for HT, but for music I found their tweeter to be unbearably shrill/screechy...sent them back within 48 hours. No idea if the Pinnacles have the same problem or not; I know the Ultras are reputedly not like that. But all of SVS's speakers are ridiculously poor values, esp. for an internet-direct company...and the fact that their gear is sold for the same prices on their website as they are sold at Amazon and Best Buy, pretty much tells you everything you need to know about their value proposition and where most of your money is really going.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #49 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 01:24 PM
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The 500/100 vs the 600/200 is not huge depending on your crossover. The 500/100 will require a slightly higher crossover than the 600/200. Probably 90-100hz. A note on crossovers. Crossovers should be set based on room acoustics and not speaker capability, unless the speaker is not capable like a small satellite where a higher crossover is needed. I've been an HAA L2 and THX calibrator for about 20 years and one of the biggest mistakes I see people make is setting their crossover too low because they say their mains go to whatever frequency. The crossover is there because the best location for bass is not the same as for mid-range and high frequencies. So by having the subs separate it allows better placement to get better bass. Also, by crossing over to a sub it allows the front speakers to play louder with less distortion when you are not trying to play at the limits of the speaker capability. Now if you are not using a sub being able to go lower with larger woofers is definitely noticeable. The larger woofers will also be able to play louder but that depends on a person's desires. We have a ton of customers that say they want their speakers to play loud but in reality they never watch a whole movie that loud.

You should match your speakers as closely as possible, I find this very easy to hear. Mismatched doesn't sound bad but I can tell it is off especially on sounds than pan between speakers. Dialogue is tougher because it mostly comes from the center. Zorbra is correct in that if you have a bad center it doesn't matter and if your center matches your fronts then you have bad speakers as well, you will just notice the center easier since most of the dialogue is played through it. Now the 500/100 is not a bad combo at all and depending on room acoustics the 600/200 might need a 90-100hz crossover. I can't predict that. I can tell you most rooms fall between 80-100hz for the crossover and very few do we use a lower crossover. I think 80hz is pushing the lower limit of the 500/100 and probably what many use. Other than the woofer difference the 500/100 is basically the same as the 600/200.
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post #50 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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If you're fine with their looks, I'd seriously consider the Emotivas. They're reasonably-priced (even with the exchange, and you can switch to CAD on the site to see what our cost is), and phenomenal performers by just about every account I've seen here.







Keep an eye on Gibbys' website, they have good deals on AVRs sometimes. They have the 3700H listed, and it's not nearly as bad as I was expecting, but it's still steep IMO.
Ok, I will have a look.

I definitely will and have been. I am just trying to decide if I should wait till November to buy it all at once or buy a couple of things over the summer. I am thinking the best deals will be around Black Friday correct?

Thanks for all your help.

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Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
I home auditioned the SVS Prime bookshelves a couple years ago...they'd be ok for HT, but for music I found their tweeter to be unbearably shrill/screechy...sent them back within 48 hours. No idea if the Pinnacles have the same problem or not; I know the Ultras are reputedly not like that. But all of SVS's speakers are ridiculously poor values, esp. for an internet-direct company...and the fact that their gear is sold for the same prices on their website as they are sold at Amazon and Best Buy, pretty much tells you everything you need to know about their value proposition and where most of your money is really going.
Ok, good to know. I must admit that even the Paradigm's tweets scare me with their aluminum domes as I generally prefer fabric or ring radiators but, I am sure a high end Al dome with the phase plug will be a whole other animal compared to what I have heard before.

Buying speakers when you live in a smaller town is hard as I can only audition certain stuff.

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post #52 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 02:52 PM
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I am thinking the best deals will be around Black Friday correct?
Usually, yes, but I have seen stupid-good deals throughout the year.

The only caveat with the Emotivas is you will get charged Duty separately afterwards, so be prepared for an additional 10-15% charge from the shipping company.

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Usually, yes, but I have seen stupid-good deals throughout the year.



The only caveat with the Emotivas is you will get charged Duty separately afterwards, so be prepared for an additional 10-15% charge from the shipping company.
Roger, I will keep my eyes open. It's always a hard decision to go for the individual sales vs waiting and buying all at once to use the superior buying power to drive the price down with the salesman.

Yeah, I also worry about warranty issues(especially since it looks like Emotiva has had some issues in the past from the little reading I have done). Honestly, I would prefer to deal with a company that has full Canadian after purchase support and warranty.

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post #54 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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The 500/100 vs the 600/200 is not huge depending on your crossover. The 500/100 will require a slightly higher crossover than the 600/200. Probably 90-100hz. A note on crossovers. Crossovers should be set based on room acoustics and not speaker capability, unless the speaker is not capable like a small satellite where a higher crossover is needed. I've been an HAA L2 and THX calibrator for about 20 years and one of the biggest mistakes I see people make is setting their crossover too low because they say their mains go to whatever frequency. The crossover is there because the best location for bass is not the same as for mid-range and high frequencies. So by having the subs separate it allows better placement to get better bass. Also, by crossing over to a sub it allows the front speakers to play louder with less distortion when you are not trying to play at the limits of the speaker capability. Now if you are not using a sub being able to go lower with larger woofers is definitely noticeable. The larger woofers will also be able to play louder but that depends on a person's desires. We have a ton of customers that say they want their speakers to play loud but in reality they never watch a whole movie that loud.



You should match your speakers as closely as possible, I find this very easy to hear. Mismatched doesn't sound bad but I can tell it is off especially on sounds than pan between speakers. Dialogue is tougher because it mostly comes from the center. Zorbra is correct in that if you have a bad center it doesn't matter and if your center matches your fronts then you have bad speakers as well, you will just notice the center easier since most of the dialogue is played through it. Now the 500/100 is not a bad combo at all and depending on room acoustics the 600/200 might need a 90-100hz crossover. I can't predict that. I can tell you most rooms fall between 80-100hz for the crossover and very few do we use a lower crossover. I think 80hz is pushing the lower limit of the 500/100 and probably what many use. Other than the woofer difference the 500/100 is basically the same as the 600/200.
Thanks for all this info. I will be doing a lot of setup research before I get they system and will be spending a lot of time getting it just right. I also plan to use room correction(likely ARC or XT32/Sub EQ HT with the app upgrade) and add a second sub later to even things out. I do still want a considerable amount of punch coming out of my Towers though(otherwise I would jusy go with bookshelfs) to add to the effect and move more air. I can always add a power amp to the front 2 or 3 channels if needed down the road too if the AVR can't cut it(likely with the garbage most companies are churning out these days).

Ok, good to know. I just hope the 500C is enough as I just can't fit the 600C without spending a bunch more money(I really don't want to upgrade my TV stand now). Have you heard the 500C before? If so, what did you think? Do you think that mixing 5.5 and 6.5 drivers would sound ok or should I strive to have a 5 speakers with the same size drivers? Thanks again for the help.

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If at all possible, mount your TV and get the 600C. I wouldn't worry about using the 100Bs as surrounds, if it raises the budget too much for the 200Bs.

BTW - as you can see from my signature, Paradigm speakers with Anthem electronics go VERY well together...
Where are you located? I may be able to give you some suggestions.

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If at all possible, mount your TV and get the 600C. I wouldn't worry about using the 100Bs as surrounds, if it raises the budget too much for the 200Bs.

BTW - as you can see from my signature, Paradigm speakers with Anthem electronics go VERY well together...
Where are you located? I may be able to give you some suggestions.
Do you think it would make a big difference going from the 500C to 600C? Keep in mind the outer 2 woofers are passive(in case you didn't know). I could always grab a cheap wall mount for my 52" off of Amazon as it is a bit low now due to my stand being for an older smaller model. My GF might whine about the 600C slightly overhanging even the top shelf on my TV stand though(I can endure that if need be lol)

As for the surrounds, yes, that is where the trimming will be if needed(the price difference is only like $150 for both though so, it shouldn't be a problem I don't think. Although, it all adds up and my budget seems to keep expanding lol).

Yes, Anthem and Para definitely go hand in hand. NW Ontario Canada.



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post #57 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 06:41 PM
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The only caveat with the Emotivas is you will get charged Duty separately afterwards, so be prepared for an additional 10-15% charge from the shipping company.
Even with customs/duties they are still significantly less than similar caliber speakers up there, would be my guess?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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Originally Posted by Tachead7075 View Post
Do you think it would make a big difference going from the 500C to 600C? Keep in mind the outer 2 woofers are passive(in case you didn't know). I could always grab a cheap wall mount for my 52" off of Amazon as it is a bit low now due to my stand being for an older smaller model. My GF might whine about the 600C slightly overhanging even the top shelf on my TV stand though(I can endure that if need be lol)

As for the surrounds, yes, that is where the trimming will be if needed(the price difference is only like $150 for both though so, it shouldn't be a problem I don't think. Although, it all adds up and my budget seems to keep expanding lol).

Yes, Anthem and Para definitely go hand in hand. NW Ontario Canada.
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You're going from 5.25" to 6.5" drivers, and a deeper bass response, ie: Darth Vader will sound MORE like Darth Vader. I think all whining will disappear as soon as she hears (sees) Jason Momoa in Aquaman.
If you were closer to Ottawa I would have been able to give you a recommendation. NW Ont. is not an area I've been to.

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Even with customs/duties they are still significantly less than similar caliber speakers up there, would be my guess?
Arguably, yes.

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post #60 of 72 Old 06-22-2020, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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You're going from 5.25" to 6.5" drivers, and a deeper bass response, ie: Darth Vader will sound MORE like Darth Vader. I think all whining will disappear as soon as she hears (sees) Jason Momoa in Aquaman.
If you were closer to Ottawa I would have been able to give you a recommendation. NW Ont. is not an area I've been to.
Right, I forgot the 600C has larger drivers. I bet the 500C was more made to pair with the 700F.

Lol, yeah I figure no matter what I end up with she will be impressed since this is replacing a slowly failing 15 year old Logitech THX Certified 5.1 satellite system with a whopping 505 watts RMS including sub(Z-5500). She is the type that never wants to upgrade anything(I am the same sometime like with my living room TV) but, is always happy with the results. I can't wait to see the look on her face when I fire it up for the first time and it will be even better later with the Atmos speakers and 2nd sub.

Yeah, too bad I am not closer. Thanks for the offer anyway and for your help.

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