Substantial LCR Upgrade Staying With Bookshelf Mains Possible? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
I'm surprised it took almost thirty posts for someone to suggest this lol. Yes if i had $20K more to spend i would purchase a pair of his active 8.2P mains and the active 6.3P center.
The 6.1P come as either a bookshelf or tower. Nathan might be able to make a passive 6.3P centre.
The Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2EX and Sierra Luna Duo LCR may be an option, if you don't mind ordering from California:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...EX/srm2ex.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...s/duo/duo.html
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post #32 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the space. The new subs will be two inches shy of the top of the TV,,,, so adding "full" Tower cabinets in addition will IMO create overkill of large cabinetry on the front wall. The existing stands for mains just give the non bulk look,,, i would get going with large towers. Maybe i will have a different opinion once Nathan sets them up and he can give me ideas as well.
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post #33 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ZGief View Post
If you're not in a hurry the new Chane L series coming out "soon" is worth looking at.

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soon may be 2022 ...
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post #34 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Here is the space. The new subs will be two inches shy of the top of the TV,,,, so adding "full" Tower cabinets in addition will IMO create overkill of large cabinetry on the front wall. The existing stands for mains just give the non bulk look,,, i would get going with large towers. Maybe i will have a different opinion once Nathan sets them up and he can give me ideas as well.
You may need a bigger TV to counter the subs size


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post #35 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Here is the space. The new subs will be two inches shy of the top of the TV,,,, so adding "full" Tower cabinets in addition will IMO create overkill of large cabinetry on the front wall. The existing stands for mains just give the non bulk look,,, i would get going with large towers. Maybe i will have a different opinion once Nathan sets them up and he can give me ideas as well.
A pair of JBL 580s would have the same footprint of your A2.4s on stands, actually. Hell, the Darth Vader looks would actually go well with those two monstrous subs you've got!

Free return shipping if they don't do it for you acoustically or aesthetically. $600/pr currently.
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post #36 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Here is the space. The new subs will be two inches shy of the top of the TV,,,, so adding "full" Tower cabinets in addition will IMO create overkill of large cabinetry on the front wall. The existing stands for mains just give the non bulk look,,, i would get going with large towers. Maybe i will have a different opinion once Nathan sets them up and he can give me ideas as well.
A pair of JBL 580s would have the same footprint of your A2.4s on stands, actually. Hell, the Darth Vader looks would actually go well with those two monstrous subs you've got! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Free return shipping if they don't do it for you acoustically or aesthetically. $600/pr currently.
Harman products (JBL or Revel)...aren't readily sold here...hard to find and I'm not 100% certain free return or warranty issues apply if you by chance have them shipped Stateside?

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post #37 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
Harman products (JBL or Revel)...aren't readily sold here...hard to find and I'm not 100% certain free return or warranty issues apply if you by chance have them shipped Stateside?
oops, forgot he's in Canada...

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post #38 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
I think for "movies" since only a couple times i've had mv at -6,,,(usually -8/-10mv) i still have lots headroom there staying with chanes. Possibly the difference is, after a few wabblies i love to dial up the tunes lol and unlike the uncompressed audio on movies and some of my BR concerts, most music listening is sourced through my GooglePlay which has now merged with U-Tube music (havent moved over yet so not sure on sound quality)? The Marantz DAC seem to bring the compressed music source to life and many songs have an uncompressed sound quality to my questionable untrained old ears.
Have you noticed a large difference in the volume between the two services? I've been in contact with the Google Play Music / YouTube Music technical team because YTM output is much too quiet.

I have made measurements that show the issue.

This is a real-time analysis (RTA) of the first 30 seconds of the song "Monster" by Starset from each service. My Denon X4500H receiver's volume level was set at -25. Both apps have the volume at maximum.

I am seeing a nearly 10 dB difference in volume. To the ear, YouTube Music is only half as loud.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Google Play Music RTA.png
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Click image for larger version

Name:	YouTube Music RTA.png
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ID:	2751360

When using YTM, I have to turn up the receiver to -17 or so for it to sound about equal. Since I use Dynamic EQ, which adjusts the curve based on the MV level, the result is that YTM has less bass. All because of the low signal level.

On top of that, I am told that GPM has a higher bitrate. So while the new interface for YTM is slick, it's not useable to me currently.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
System 2: Laptop | NAD T758 v3 | PSB Imagine B
System 3: PC | Micca OriGen G2 | Mackie MR624

Last edited by Soulburner; 06-30-2020 at 04:34 PM.
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post #39 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Have you noticed a large difference in the volume between the two services? I've been in contact with the Google Play Music / YouTube Music technical team because YTM output is much too quiet.

I have made measurements that show the issue.

This is a real-time analysis (RTA) of the first 30 seconds of the song "Monster" by Starset from each service. My Denon X4500H receiver's volume level was set at -25. Both apps have the volume at maximum.

I am seeing a nearly 10 dB difference in volume. To the ear, YouTube Music is only half as loud.

Attachment 2751358
Attachment 2751360

When using YTM, I have to turn up the receiver to -17 or so for it to sound about equal. Since I use Dynamic EQ, which adjusts the curve based on the MV level, the result is that YTM has less bass. All because of the low signal level.

On top of that, I am told that GPM has a higher bitrate. So while the new interface for YTM is slick, it's not useable to me currently.
Great Although i transferred my playlist to YTM i have not used it yet, still are using GPM. With your observation,, if nothing improves once GPM is not functional for me i will have to void my membership,,, as loosing that much quality is not worth it. Ive never tried any other music source so dont know if Tidal or spotify is decent but i guess i better get prepared for when GPM stops working. Always something that regresses these days,, brutal.

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post #40 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 05:36 PM
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Try a quick test and see if you have to turn up the volume dial when using YTM. Hopefully it's just something about my setup...

I am using a Chromecast to the AVR.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
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post #41 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigpig View Post
The 6.1P come as either a bookshelf or tower. Nathan might be able to make a passive 6.3P centre.
The Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2EX and Sierra Luna Duo LCR may be an option, if you don't mind ordering from California:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...EX/srm2ex.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...s/duo/duo.html
Couldnt even begin count how many products ive ordered from the US,,could have bought myself a 2020 GT350 for what ive spent lol, so no issue ordering from CAL.To bad their just quad 4.5" drivers,, if 6.5" id be very interested. The Sierra-2EX sure look nice and they seem to have gotten it sorted out getting high enough frequency range out of the 6" driver to not ask the Raal to try and go lower than its capable of without break up.

I spoke with Jon at Chane today,,, sure sounds like the 700 series will get me what i want in mains, however the clearance issue again persists for my center. I forgot to ask if keeping the A2.4 center would be a possibility. Mixing compression horns with a Planar center may not be a good idea. Plus my OCD would prefer all three to be matching.

-Marantz SR-8012
-Yamaha BD-A1060
-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #42 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Try a quick test and see if you have to turn up the volume dial when using YTM. Hopefully it's just something about my setup...

I am using a Chromecast to the AVR.
I'll check it out for myself and post back. I just stream from my cell with the GPM app,,,,, settings always on (high) for download quality. Does YTM have a "quality" setting? I'll have time tomorrow to check things out.

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-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
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post #43 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 06:38 PM
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It does, buried in the settings. So you use Bluetooth?

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post #44 of 166 Old 06-30-2020, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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It does, buried in the settings. So you use Bluetooth?
Yes bluetooth,,,, i have been surprised how good so many of the tracks sound, even remastered classic rock material such as CCR/Gordon Lightfoot/Bruce Hornsby/Neil Young/Led Zeppelin and so on sound great. Some The newer pop music is ridicules and easily sounds as good as my best uncompressed Bluray concert. That been said,,,,, i dont have "trained" ears.

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post #45 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
I spoke with Jon at Chane today,,, sure sounds like the 700 series will get me what i want in mains, however the clearance issue again persists for my center. I forgot to ask if keeping the A2.4 center would be a possibility. Mixing compression horns with a Planar center may not be a good idea. Plus my OCD would prefer all three to be matching.
Visually they look quite close to the A2.4. As for the rest, you'll need someone with more knowledge
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post #46 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Here is the space. The new subs will be two inches shy of the top of the TV,,,, so adding "full" Tower cabinets in addition will IMO create overkill of large cabinetry on the front wall. The existing stands for mains just give the non bulk look,,, i would get going with large towers. Maybe i will have a different opinion once Nathan sets them up and he can give me ideas as well.
Love those stands.

Did you make those?
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post #47 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Love those stands.

Did you make those?
Wish i could take credit,,,, but no. Had them custom made out of Maple/Walnut from a woodworker in Eastern Canada.

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-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #48 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 11:26 AM
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Wish i could take credit,,,, but no. Had them custom made out of Maple/Walnut from a woodworker in Eastern Canada.
Very very nice.

Perhaps the nicest stands I've ever seen.

Getting back to your original question.

How about three KEF Q650c center channels with one horizontal and two vertical for left/right as the UniQ driver has equal dispersion vertically and horizontally?

Well priced in Canada and available in two finishes.

https://www.amazon.ca/KEF-Q650c-Cent.../dp/B071SD1FXL

https://www.amazon.ca/KEF-Q650c-Cent...07W2Y9TDM?th=1
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Very very nice.

Perhaps the nicest stands I've ever seen.

Getting back to your original question.

How about three KEF Q650c center channels with one horizontal and two vertical for left/right as the UniQ driver has equal dispersion vertically and horizontally?

Well priced in Canada and available in two finishes.

https://www.amazon.ca/KEF-Q650c-Cent.../dp/B071SD1FXL

https://www.amazon.ca/KEF-Q650c-Cent...07W2Y9TDM?th=1
Thanks,,, i really like them. The Kef look good,,,,,,, i wonder how they would compare to the A2.4's? My gut says more of a lateral move??

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-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
How about three KEF Q650c center channels with one horizontal and two vertical for left/right as the UniQ driver has equal dispersion vertically and horizontally? Well priced in Canada and available in two finishes.

https://www.amazon.ca/KEF-Q650c-Cent.../dp/B071SD1FXL

https://www.amazon.ca/KEF-Q650c-Cent...07W2Y9TDM?th=1
That's an ingenious suggestion! Especially useful in Canada given the limited options and usually much higher prices than here in the US.
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post #51 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Are there any LCR combo's that includes bookshelf mains, and a center not exceeding 8.5" in height that would be a big jump in sound quality/dynamics? I'm looking to keep my budget under $6000 Canadian. I really like the JBL HDI series from what i've read and reviews watched,,, of coarse there are Revel/Dynaudio/Sonus Faber, and several other brands that make some nice bookshelf/centers.

Not sure what pricing is like in Canada, but if you have a Totem Acoustic dealer, check them out. Great Canadian brand. Look at the Skylight, Sky, or Sig Ones, and a Tribe III for center. Do NOT let the small drivers fool you. Again, no idea of Canadian pricing, so they might be over budget, but worth a listen if you've got a dealer within reasonable distance. Be a patriot, buy Canadian!
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Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Thanks,,, i really like them. The Kef look good,,,,,,, i wonder how they would compare to the A2.4's? My gut says more of a lateral move??
I think you'd get more dynamics out of the dual 6.5" KEF...probably a bigger midrange punch and possibly better dispersion.

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post #53 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
I think you'd get more dynamics out of the dual 6.5" KEF...probably a bigger midrange punch and possibly better dispersion.

Or not.


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post #54 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:09 PM
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Substantial LCR Upgrade Staying With Bookshelf Mains Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Thanks,,, i really like them. The Kef look good,,,,,,, i wonder how they would compare to the A2.4's? My gut says more of a lateral move??

KEFs are a mostly lateral move for a good amount more money. They do not play louder than the A2.4 and present a slightly more forward character; comes down to taste. If you’re dropping coin and you’re already happy with the A2.4’s, I fear disappointment would be waiting in the wings for the money spent.

NOTE: only one of those 6.5” woofers on the front are active, the other is a PR. Which functions like a port without the out of band spuriae that get reradiated through a port.


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post #55 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Not sure what pricing is like in Canada, but if you have a Totem Acoustic dealer, check them out. Great Canadian brand. Look at the Skylight, Sky, or Sig Ones, and a Tribe III for center. Do NOT let the small drivers fool you. Again, no idea of Canadian pricing, so they might be over budget, but worth a listen if you've got a dealer within reasonable distance. Be a patriot, buy Canadian!
Looked at a few, the Sig1 would be my choice if i went Totem. With tax their about $4000 a pair,,,, which in that price range thought maybe would have a Beryllium tweeter but this has aluminum. That been said i know you dont have to have a Beryllium or Diamond tweeter to sound good.

Also with that 6.5" driver having a 3" voice coil has me needing to do more research as that can be a detriment in some ways (power hungry?). Couldnt find ohm or DB sensitivity, so need to keep looking. Thanks for this suggestion!!
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post #56 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
KEFs are a mostly lateral move for a good amount more money. They do not play louder than the A2.4 and present a slightly more forward character; comes down to taste. If you’re dropping coin and you’re already happy with the A2.4’s, I fear disappointment would be waiting in the wings for the money spent.

NOTE: only one of those 6.5” woofers on the front are active, the other is a PR. Which functions like a port without the out of band spuriae that get reradiated through a port.


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Jon was saying you were going to do a review on the 700 when you get your hands on them? So far they have the most interest as far as been confident in a nice step up on mains. As i mentioned earlier a third wont fit and i'm trying to sort that out. I wont upgrade unless i'm sure it will be worth it. Reading the 700 thread and talking to Jon sounds like they would be A2.4's on roids while still been reasonably small.
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-Funk 21.0LX Master/Slave combo 4800 watts RMS/9600watts (peak)-
-Chane A-2.4 L/C/R
-Chane A-1.4 side/rear surrounds.
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post #57 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
KEFs are a mostly lateral move for a good amount more money. They do not play louder than the A2.4 and present a slightly more forward character; comes down to taste. If you’re dropping coin and you’re already happy with the A2.4’s, I fear disappointment would be waiting in the wings for the money spent.

NOTE: only one of those 6.5” woofers on the front are active, the other is a PR. Which functions like a port without the out of band spuriae that get reradiated through a port.


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Uni-Q driver array:
HF: 25mm (1in.) vented aluminium dome
MF: 165mm (6.50in.) aluminium Uni-Q
LF:165mm (6.5in.) aluminium
ABR: 165mm (6.5in.)aluminium

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post #58 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Jon was saying you were going to do a review on the 700 when you get your hands on them? So far they have the most interest as far as been confident in a nice step up on mains. As i mentioned earlier a third wont fit and i'm trying to sort that out. I wont upgrade unless i'm sure it will be worth it. Reading the 700 thread and talking to Jon sounds like they would be A2.4's on roids while still been reasonably small.

Yeah I’m working on that. 752’s were used as stand monitors. I actually first set one up in an assymmetrical stereo pair with an A2.4. Even without level matching, they still made a stereo image. A crooked one, but it was there.

You could certainly use an A2.4 center with 700 series L/R.


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post #59 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:35 PM
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Substantial LCR Upgrade Staying With Bookshelf Mains Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
Uni-Q driver array:
HF: 25mm (1in.) vented aluminium dome
MF: 165mm (6.50in.) aluminium Uni-Q
LF:165mm (6.5in.) aluminium
ABR: 165mm (6.5in.)aluminium

ABR = PR

KEF Speak = Auxiliary Bass Radiator


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"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Krell Showcase 7.1/Anthem Statement D1 pre/pros | Musical Concepts' LX Elite Mini-Platinum Mod Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Bluesound Node 2/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD/DVD-A | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | custom-finished Chane A5rx-c surrounds | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES.
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post #60 of 166 Old 07-01-2020, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
ABR = PR

KEF Speak = Auxiliary Bass Radiator


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I know, there is one, not two.

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