Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 1189 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35641 of 37826 Old 04-11-2018, 10:58 AM
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The only Canadian made ones I have handy are the Mini Monitor v6, sorry.

More to follow...

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post #35642 of 37826 Old 04-11-2018, 05:57 PM
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Just wondering if anyone has the CI Home H65A ceiling speakers and could provide some feedback on how they sound?

I've gone with 7.1.2 setup and jumped a little early on getting a good deal on the Dynamic Audio Labs KVSC-65 speakers. While they do sound great, they are downward firing and I'm not sure if there is enough dispersion. Sliding the audio meter from directly bellow to the LP, there is a 10db drop in signal. I may just bite the bullet and replace them. I realize the gain could be boosted (which it has been for balance), but I'm thinking the imaging is taking a bit of a hit by not being better focused.

The Paradigms are a decent price and angled enough that it should improve the imaging I would think. I'm also looking at the Martin Logan Electromotion IC, but its a little more pricier and I'm not sure if I'm getting a better deal with the paradims since they are CDN.

Thoughts?
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post #35643 of 37826 Old 04-11-2018, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinte View Post
Just wondering if anyone has the CI Home H65A ceiling speakers and could provide some feedback on how they sound?



I've gone with 7.1.2 setup and jumped a little early on getting a good deal on the Dynamic Audio Labs KVSC-65 speakers. While they do sound great, they are downward firing and I'm not sure if there is enough dispersion. Sliding the audio meter from directly bellow to the LP, there is a 10db drop in signal. I may just bite the bullet and replace them. I realize the gain could be boosted (which it has been for balance), but I'm thinking the imaging is taking a bit of a hit by not being better focused.



The Paradigms are a decent price and angled enough that it should improve the imaging I would think. I'm also looking at the Martin Logan Electromotion IC, but its a little more pricier and I'm not sure if I'm getting a better deal with the paradims since they are CDN.



Thoughts?


If you can swing it, I would jump up to the Pro P65-R. There is a large gap in sound quality between the Home and the Pro series.


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post #35644 of 37826 Old 04-11-2018, 08:04 PM
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Heard the new Premier bookshelf speakers today. The bigger of the two -- forgot the model number. They are $1000 a pair. They blew me away too. Paradigm is going to have a hard time keeping these in stock.

I LOVED the look of them too. The front looks awesome. The top and sides are nice -- although you can tell where they cut costs in the cabinet and put it towards sound quality. The look is incredibly nice and elegant, but when you feel them, you can tell they're not $2,000 speakers like they sound. Can't wait to hear the floor standers. I absolutely think these are superior to the Revel M106's I used to own, at half the cost. I'm not kidding.

Oh, as per the discussion about Monitor SE vs Monitor v7 -- I absolutely think the SE is a better sounding speaker by a mile. They image dramatically better, have better bass, and sound much more open. Startlingly open actually. They are also not as tinny in the treble as the v7 can be at times. There is something about them that is very musical and engaging. I noticed myself grooving and toe tapping on almost every song. Hard to describe but just weirdly engaging and impressive for the price. More so than the UB5 ELAC's which I love.
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post #35645 of 37826 Old 04-11-2018, 11:16 PM
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Heard the new Premier bookshelf speakers today. The bigger of the two -- forgot the model number. They are $1000 a pair. They blew me away too. Paradigm is going to have a hard time keeping these in stock.

I LOVED the look of them too. The front looks awesome. The top and sides are nice -- although you can tell where they cut costs in the cabinet and put it towards sound quality. The look is incredibly nice and elegant, but when you feel them, you can tell they're not $2,000 speakers like they sound. Can't wait to hear the floor standers. I absolutely think these are superior to the Revel M106's I used to own, at half the cost. I'm not kidding.

Oh, as per the discussion about Monitor SE vs Monitor v7 -- I absolutely think the SE is a better sounding speaker by a mile. They image dramatically better, have better bass, and sound much more open. Startlingly open actually. They are also not as tinny in the treble as the v7 can be at times. There is something about them that is very musical and engaging. I noticed myself grooving and toe tapping on almost every song. Hard to describe but just weirdly engaging and impressive for the price. More so than the UB5 ELAC's which I love.

ok, now your just killing me!
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post #35646 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 06:26 AM
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If you can swing it, I would jump up to the Pro P65-R. There is a large gap in sound quality between the Home and the Pro series.
I agree the price difference is not that much for the better speaker. My only concern it that there does not appear to be any means of tilting or focusing. Not sure how much dispersion this particular speaker has?
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post #35647 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
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I agree the price difference is not that much for the better speaker. My only concern it that there does not appear to be any means of tilting or focusing. Not sure how much dispersion this particular speaker has?
I'm happy with my P65R tops. I do wish there was an angled version available, and personally, if I was doing it all again, I'd opt for the H65A or P80A, and since the P80A is probably huge and costs twice as much, H65A would be the winner IMHO. Don't get me wrong, the P65Rs sound great, but they don't have quite as much directivity as I'd like.

RE: Monitor SE. I haven't listened to them yet, but they look very nice compared to the V7 Atoms. They took some design cues from the Prestige lineup and made them cheaper. For example, the grills look similar, but are made with coarser fabric and pegs instead of magnets. The grills on the Monitor SE Atom also have some ~1/4"-3/8" fiberboard in them, I'm not sure why. I wouldn't get these wet at all, they'd probably swell and dissolve quickly. I'm definitely gonna measure with/without grills, they are very substantial. Compared to Mini Monitor V6 (and probably V7, but I don't own any of those), Monitor SE Atom is almost as big. It's much bigger than the Atom V7.

Prestige 85F for comparison:


Fiberboard in the Monitor SE grill:


The Paradigm emblems are similar in style, but much flatter on Monitor SE, really more of a thick sticker, while the Prestige has a beefy emblem. 10 feet away, it's close enough not to matter.

Prestige:


Monitor SE:


Measurements to follow..
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post #35648 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 10:25 AM
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You’re more excited to measure them than listen to them?
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post #35649 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 11:04 AM
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You’re more excited to measure them than listen to them?
Yes!
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post #35650 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 11:06 AM
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Weird.
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post #35651 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 11:12 AM
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Oh, c'mon. Subjective experience with a speaker is something easily influenced by a million little factors. The one common truth is how the speaker itself objectively performs. Audiophiles spend money buying magic bags of pebbles, and I don't doubt that they subjectively believe their gear sounds better afterwards. In reality, it has no effect on the sound.

Yes, of course I'll listen to them, but I'll listen after I know how they're voiced. In the case of the Mini Monitor V6, there's a clear spike in the treble, and listening to them after measuring, it's plain as day. Without measuring, one might be tempted to call them 'analytical' or 'detailed' - no thanks! I'd rather know what biases I'm subjecting myself to

Different strokes, I get that some people would prefer to just listen and go from there, and that's just fine too.

edit: In the case of these Atoms, I'm super curious how the grills will affect the measured sound.
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post #35652 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
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I agree the price difference is not that much for the better speaker. My only concern it that there does not appear to be any means of tilting or focusing. Not sure how much dispersion this particular speaker has?


It depends on your placement. As an Atmos speaker or a surround located nearly in line with the listening area, they are fine. If using for front or if you need more directional dispersement, Paradigm sells an offset driver model in each of their series. For the Pro series it is the P80-A

https://www.paradigm.com/products-cu.../page=overview

I am using the P80-R for Atmos speakers and for my rear surrounds since I have a very large space, I went with the P80-SM for better dispersement. I aligned them with the dual tweeters pointed front/back. That choice was based on the performance of my previous speakers, not based on the Paradigms so take that with a grain of salt. Every room is different... My Atmos speakers are probably 5-6’ in front of my listening area and they disperse just fine (I have a 12’ ceiling btw).


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post #35653 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brireeves629 View Post
In-Ceiling speaker question:

I have upgraded my Klipsch system to Paradigm in my family room which includes (4) in ceiling speakers. I purchased (2) Paradigm P-80 in ceiling for my rear channel and left (2) Klipsch in the front ceiling to use as Atmos speakers. While this is fine for movies, when I listen to music on all channel stereo, the sound of the Klipsch is noticeably different. I was contemplating purchasing a used pair on eBay, but I’m not sure if by Getting a different series of Paradigm would I still have the same problem? For My sound stage I have (3) Millenia 30.


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Ouch...
My understanding is that the Pro, Elite, and Prestige all sync up in the tweeter range, which is most critical. I can 100% vouch that the Elite 6.5" In Ceiling blends perfectly with the Prestige set up. It is amazing how speakers do sound different...I could hear the difference between my studio 60v5 towers and my Prestige 55C.
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post #35654 of 37826 Old 04-12-2018, 05:45 PM
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Big fun. The TLDR is, the Monitor SE Atom measures like a bigger, bassier, smoother Atom V7. It should be fun to listen to. Also, keep the grills off your Mini Monitors and Atom V7s, but it's not as big a deal on the Monitor SE.

Size comparison, Atom V7 far left, Monitor SE Atom center, Mini Monitor V6 right:


Same order, showing grill construction:


All the testing was done with the UMIK-1 (with calibration file) at tweeter height and one meter away, as close as I could measure it. The speaker stand and mic stand weren't moved at all. Gating was set to 3.0ms, with a calculated first reflection at 3.15ms. Everything was run 3 times, then averaged. The individual runs were all very close to the average, no outliers to be had. Any spikes or valleys were present in all measurements for that speaker/grill configuration.

Here's a wild west graph, all speakers with grills both on and off, 1/12 octave smoothing applied:


No surprise, the bigger Monitor SE Atom and Mini Monitor V6 roll off the bass a bit less sharply. Overall, the big surprise for me was how much the grills affect the Mini Monitor v6. They do have that heavy plastic honeycomb, and it really makes a big impact with a giant valley at 5khz and another around 11khz, as well as generally dampening response from 1khz all the way to 6khz or so. A closer look, without smoothing:


The grills really kill the Mini Monitor V6. Who knew?

Moving on, The Atom V7 vs the Monitor SE Atom, grills off, 1/2 octave smoothing applied (green trace is Atom V7, the lower trace starting from the left):


Don't pay too much attention to the slope under 300hz or so, it's not very accurate due to gating. The general takeaway in those frequencies is 'Monitor SE Atom goes a bit deeper, but they're both still bookshelf speakers.' Above that, both speakers have a little hump centered on 800hz, more pronounced on the SE. I'll guess female voices will sound more forward on the Monitor SE Atom compared to the Atom V7. As with (I suspect) all Paradigm speakers, frequencies from 4khz and up are on the high side of spec, rising well above the claimed ±2dB from 86 Hz - 22 kHz for Atom V7 and ±3dB from 55 Hz - 21 kHz for the Monitor SE Atom as we get closer to 20khz.

The last graph I thought was interesting enough to show was the Monitor SE Atom with grill on vs off (orange trace is with the grill):


Nothing else was changed, just the grill put on. Unlike the Mini Monitor V6, there's definitely going to be room for difference of opinion on grill on vs off for this thing. The hump at 800hz is even more pronounced with the grill on. Everything from about 400hz up to 3300hz or so sees a small bump with the grill on. Then, from 4khz on up to almost 9khz, it's reversed, with the grill dampening things pretty significantly. The curve crosses a few more times above this, but my old ears probably won't be able to tell much difference. I can say there will surely be people who prefer the more forward midrange and subdued treble the grill provides overall, and some who prefer it the other way.

OK I lied. One more graph. All three speakers, grills off, no smoothing:


The Mini Monitor V6 has the bass, the Atom Monitor V7 has the mids and highs, and the Monitor SE Atom combines them. I do wish I had a set of Mini Monitor V7 to test, I suspect they'd measure close to the Monitor SE Atom.

I haven't listened critically yet, but listening to the many sweeps I ran, I think the Monitor SE Atom is going to be a winner. It has the bass of the Mini Monitor (both have noticeably more than the Atom V7) plus smoother treble, and a much better grill. Tomorrow, I'll play some music :P
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post #35655 of 37826 Old 04-13-2018, 01:25 AM
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I am very curious to see how the new premiers will compare to studio v5. They are similarly priced but I expect premiers to beat the studios in sound quality.

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post #35656 of 37826 Old 04-13-2018, 05:19 AM
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Help me understand: The website advertises the Premier Wireless Series. Is there another Premier series of speakers that Paradigm hasn’t advertised, or is the Premier Wireless what everyone is so excited about?


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post #35657 of 37826 Old 04-13-2018, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
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Help me understand: The website advertises the Premier Wireless Series. Is there another Premier series of speakers that Paradigm hasn’t advertised, or is the Premier Wireless what everyone is so excited about?


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I too am very curious about the new 'Premier' series of speakers. A quick Google search didn't find
Any relevant results.

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post #35658 of 37826 Old 04-13-2018, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
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I haven't listened critically yet, but listening to the many sweeps I ran, I think the Monitor SE Atom is going to be a winner. It has the bass of the Mini Monitor (both have noticeably more than the Atom V7) plus smoother treble, and a much better grill. Tomorrow, I'll play some music :P
This was an extremely informative post, thanks. Alas, I don't see anything that makes me want to rush off and replace my Atom v7s, which are currently doing duty as surrounds. I doubt I'd notice a difference in that application.

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post #35659 of 37826 Old 04-13-2018, 11:39 AM
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I'm really loocking formward to listen to them.

I got the v6 when they first got released (, and since , EACH AND EVERY time I'm shopping for a new bookshelf speaker , I always fall back to my monitor V6.

I did try

KEF Q150
Klipsch r14M
PSB 1B
Monitor Audio Bronze 2
B&W (I don't remember which model ...)
some Pionners and other stuff as well.

I did skip the V7 version as I tought it was mainly a comsmetic upgrade over V6 and also because I was loocking for a different sound.

Each speaker as it strengh some where really better than other. I am more and more suprised how Paradigm are great. Keep in mind that I have a pioneer elite receiver and as such I'm not enough familiar with amp matching...

I'm really looking formward for a review of the Atom SE as the price is really inexpensive I think and that the treble and the bass seems to have been refined.
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post #35660 of 37826 Old 04-13-2018, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
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Help me understand: The website advertises the Premier Wireless Series. Is there another Premier series of speakers that Paradigm hasn’t advertised, or is the Premier Wireless what everyone is so excited about?


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Yes there is a new Premier series coming out that will fit price wise between the Monitor SE and Prestige. They announced them and had some pictures up back in January at the ISE show and they will probably have more from Axpona this weekend. Hopefully they will be shipping by the end of the month.
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post #35661 of 37826 Old 04-13-2018, 02:37 PM
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I've owned Paradigm Monitor line speakers from V1, V3, V6 and V7. Up until V6, they stuck with Titanium (PTD) tweeters and some sort of Polymer midrange and to me for the most part between V1 and V6 had a very similar sound. I didn't think too much of the earlier V1 to V4 Center Channels, thought when they went 3-way with V5 and V6, that it helped open up the front sound stage. I remember when I was upgrading from Monitor 7 V1 towers to Monitor 9 V6 towers... the dealer sent me the CC-290 V6 Center Channel first and so I swapped my CC-370 V3 out with the 290 V6 (the 290 was physically larger than the 370) and tried it with the Monitor 7 V1 towers and there was a noticeable improvement in the front sound stage--sounded wider to me. I wish I would've shelled out for the larger CC-390 V6 at the time. I would say I liked the older V1-V4 towers better then the V5/V6 towers when they made them less beefy. But I felt you could interchange/mix speakers between V1 to V6 because of them sticking with Titanium tweeters.

For the Monitor V7 line, they incorporated more "technology" that was used in their studio lines with Aluminum Tweeters and Drivers that they market or describe as S-PAL. I really enjoy the sound of the V7 line, ended up with Monitor 11 V7 Towers, Center 3, Surround 3 and Atom Monitors. Since then though, I was able to find a great deal on used Studio 100 V4 Towers and CC-690 V4 Center to replace the Monitor V7 front sound stage, but I am still using the Surround 3 and Atom Monitor V7. The new Monitor SE line looks interesting, nice that they're now stating to use the same X-PAL technology for the tweeters across different speaker lines which should make mixing speakers between the different lines more cohesive in my opinion. I know many Paradigm fans like myself were sad to see the Studio Series go away and now this new Premier line looks like the Studio line reborn.
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post #35662 of 37826 Old 04-15-2018, 03:17 PM
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Anyone here has listened to the new Revel f228Be? How do they compare with the Persona line, especially with the similarly priced 3F?
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post #35663 of 37826 Old 04-15-2018, 09:45 PM
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I heard the 228 and was stunned at how bright and disconected they sounded. I went once each day to listen hoping they’d improve or maybe it was just the track, but I couldn’t believe it. They also look hideous with the white wave guide. The white cones look okay, but the wave guide looks atrocious.
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post #35664 of 37826 Old 04-16-2018, 06:47 AM
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Oh hai! Long time lurker, first time poster... I figure I may as well join the club :-)

2 x Paradigm Monitor 11 v6 Floorstanders
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Oh and I just bought my first house... everything but the Monitor 11's and the center channel (currently in use) are coming out of storage... to say I'm excited is an understatement :-D
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post #35665 of 37826 Old 04-16-2018, 11:31 AM
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Hi all. I have a set of Walnut Prestige 85F with matching 45C center channel that I'm getting ready to sell. I don't want to rip anyone off, but I am looking for fair value. They are in excellent condition. Is $3k asking too much? Higher? Lower? They are like new, and I have all the original boxes and packaging in mint condition. I looked on eBay and Audiogon to see if I could find recent sales but I didn't come up with any. Any thoughts?

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post #35666 of 37826 Old 04-16-2018, 01:30 PM
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Hi all. I have a set of Walnut Prestige 85F with matching 45C center channel that I'm getting ready to sell. I don't want to rip anyone off, but I am looking for fair value. They are in excellent condition. Is $3k asking too much? Higher? Lower? They are like new, and I have all the original boxes and packaging in mint condition. I looked on eBay and Audiogon to see if I could find recent sales but I didn't come up with any. Any thoughts?
I think you'll find a buyer quickly at that price. I wouldn't go any lower, and personally I'd start a little higher, or split up the speakers and center.
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post #35667 of 37826 Old 04-16-2018, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptyo View Post
Hi all. I have a set of Walnut Prestige 85F with matching 45C center channel that I'm getting ready to sell. I don't want to rip anyone off, but I am looking for fair value. They are in excellent condition. Is $3k asking too much? Higher? Lower? They are like new, and I have all the original boxes and packaging in mint condition. I looked on eBay and Audiogon to see if I could find recent sales but I didn't come up with any. Any thoughts?
Have a look on http://www.usaudiomart.com/ for pricing. Also a great place to advertise them.
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post #35668 of 37826 Old 04-17-2018, 08:06 AM
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I still don't have my home theater setup. I am so sad...

I did decide to setup the 15B Prestige speakers on my old setup that is in my wife's hobby room.

I did a listen Sunday night and liked them but wasn't really that impressed. I had a long weekend and was tired.

Monday morning I decided to go at them again. I had the house to myself so I really wanted to stretch their legs.

The 15B are a lot smaller than my PSB that I was using in that room but wow did they ever fill it up. It is relatively large at 15 x 20' room.

I listened to quite a bit of instrumental music or acoustic. For the first time in my own home I could clearly hear the musicians taking a breath or tweaking a string. It was phenomenal.

When I finally have my new theater setup I will have better everything than for this test so I am really excited to do a similar scenario to see what else I can hear.

As long as I stay away from listening to Persona or other higher end speakers, I should be very happy for a long time.

They brought a tear to my eye.

My final test was to add my Klipsh 15" sub into the mix. It really brought them to life even further for the low hz that obviously a small bookshelf speaker would be missing.

It was magical.

Zoof

Theater || 82NU8000 | Pioneer SC-LX901 | Paradigm 85F - 55C - 15B - E80R | Syzygy SLF870
Rec || Pioneer KRP 500m | Pioneer SC-25 | PSB B25
Casual || LC-65LBU591C

Last edited by TheZoof; 04-17-2018 at 08:09 AM.
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post #35669 of 37826 Old 04-17-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TheZoof View Post
As long as I stay away from listening to Persona or other higher end speakers, I should be very happy for a long time.
I wouldn't even worry about that so much. I've listened to the Persona and many other what I would consider high end speakers, knowing it is unlikely I will ever be able to afford them and remain married...), and in spite of that, I'm still extremely pleased with the Prestige line. For the price point, I think they exceed expectations honestly.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #35670 of 37826 Old 04-17-2018, 12:58 PM
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Oddly a Croatian website has full pictures and breakdown of the entire new Paradigm Premier series with full specs. A bit difficult to extrapolate currency conversion etc.
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