Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 1253 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37561 of 37857 Old 11-19-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Yeah, the 600C seems very good to me too, and I could afford it right now, but it's kinda large so it's unlikely to make the WAF cut. I'll give it another consideration, take some measurements, etc, after the fronts come in. Do you happen to know if the dimensions listed on Paradigm's website are 100% accurate? They said the 700F's were wider than the Monitor 6000's, but AFAICT they're more or less the same width.
I would guess the specs listed at the website are close.

Is it an issue of the speaker fitting somewhere, or just the general size that the S.O. would have issue with?

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post #37562 of 37857 Old 11-19-2019, 01:32 PM
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I would guess the specs listed at the website are close.

Is it an issue of the speaker fitting somewhere, or just the general size that the S.O. would have issue with?

Both, but mostly the latter. A definite WAF factor is not wanting the room to be dominated by large AV components (I'm sure that's nothing new here). So volume WxHxD makes a difference here since the center isn't inconspicuously tucked away like the sub. I haven't actually seen (or heard) the 600C, and that could make a difference, but the dimensions posted were not encouraging in this regard. I kindof have an idea where the WAF limits are, and my initial assessment was that the 500C was gonna take some splainin'. The 600C was well beyond that. But I did want to audition it, and I should.



As far as fitting, placing centers makes for some compromises here, mostly around height and display position, but that's a solvable problem.
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post #37563 of 37857 Old 11-19-2019, 02:18 PM
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I was glad to read your post!



I had thought about the Revel Be series but had my heart set on the Persona line. I have some questions for you.



How much better were the 3f's over the B?

Do the 3f's have a good seamless blend with the Center speaker?

How good is the Center speaker?



My last home theater setup was with the Paradigm Signature series and it was very good. I'm very critical of center speakers because even with some of the high-end brands, the center speaker doesn't quite live up to the mains.



My biggest criticism usually is "dialogue clarity". Most of the speakers I audition don't quite do it for me. For me, the center speaker is the most important one in home theater (which would be 90% of my use). Basically, it has to do everything the main speakers do plus reproduce dialogue and there have been too many times where I've said "what did they say" even with high-end speakers.



I'd love to hear your thoughts! Thank you.


I have 3 speaker profiles setup on the Anthem
- HT with all speakers (11.2)
- Stereo with Fronts and 2 subs
- Stereo with just the Fronts

I mostly listen to two channel with the profile 2 (with subs), but late evenings I stick to profile 3 as to not disturb the family.

Based on my audition I found the B to be lacking in the low end and midrange compared to the 3F. Also once the kids are out and I do decide to downsize I know I can be happy to manage with just the 3F’s.

Jennifer Warnes, Famous Blue Raincoat comes to mind, where during the demo I was happy with the B but the 3F’s brought the detail out.

Another is at the start of Wish you were here by Pink Floyd, you can here a faint sound of a door cloing on the 3F which is missed by most of the other speakers including the B and the Revel’s. I am not really sure the reason why, but I know for a fact that it is there.

3F blend very well with the center, even though the center uses as 4 inch mid bass driver on the C compared to the 7 inch on the 3F. Perhaps the differences in the crossover help that.

The Center is clean and crisp like the 3F and my only doubt to date was not being able to hear the 5F’s with the C and compare it with the 3F’s and the C. I missed the initial demo wave when Paradigm was going around doing dealer demo’s.

Overall I am really pleased with decision I made and decided to go with the Persona’s compared to the Prestige. A friend close by has the Prestige 95F and 55C and once he heard the Persona’s he was surprised by the them.

I use Parasound A21+ for the fronts, A51 for the center and surrounds and A52+ for the heights.

If you are close to Central NJ, PM me and you can hear them for yourself.



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post #37564 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Both, but mostly the latter. A definite WAF factor is not wanting the room to be dominated by large AV components (I'm sure that's nothing new here). So volume WxHxD makes a difference here since the center isn't inconspicuously tucked away like the sub. I haven't actually seen (or heard) the 600C, and that could make a difference, but the dimensions posted were not encouraging in this regard. I kindof have an idea where the WAF limits are, and my initial assessment was that the 500C was gonna take some splainin'. The 600C was well beyond that. But I did want to audition it, and I should.



As far as fitting, placing centers makes for some compromises here, mostly around height and display position, but that's a solvable problem.
I usually try to buy my wife something nice just for her, and then buy the speaker(s) i want.

The Paradigms are attractive and come in different colors to suite just about any decor.

The set-up can be beautiful in its own way if executed correctly.

Basically my wife makes 98% of the decor decisions at home, but I get what I want in that one area LOL.

But to be honest, I have standards too. I can't look at speakers that completely dominate the living room or subwoofers that are the size of a refrigerator. I recently downsized from a large PowerSound sub to multiple smaller footprint JL Audio subs because i think it looks much better.

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post #37565 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Both, but mostly the latter. A definite WAF factor is not wanting the room to be dominated by large AV components (I'm sure that's nothing new here). So volume WxHxD makes a difference here since the center isn't inconspicuously tucked away like the sub. I haven't actually seen (or heard) the 600C, and that could make a difference, but the dimensions posted were not encouraging in this regard. I kindof have an idea where the WAF limits are, and my initial assessment was that the 500C was gonna take some splainin'. The 600C was well beyond that. But I did want to audition it, and I should.



As far as fitting, placing centers makes for some compromises here, mostly around height and display position, but that's a solvable problem.
Look into the In Wall or In Ceiling Speakers for the Center. You can get it closer to the TV and while running wires behind a wall can be tough, it helps with the WAF.

I used a 4.1 set up in my basement for about a year and the phantom center worked just fine. I think you will be happy with the Premier and the voices will be clear and understandable.

While I use the 55C for my Prestige line up in one room...it is a fantastic speaker...I actually used an in Ceiling as my center in my basement HT and it works great in conjunction with my towers with great results. The idea came from a guy on here who used a bookshelf Persona speaker as his center and said it worked well. So, I tried the in wall route and it works better than expected. Its does not give off as much of a pointed sound source as I would have thought. Blends in nicely.

I have the HSU Subwoofer and love it.
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post #37566 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 11:58 AM
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Look into the In Wall or In Ceiling Speakers for the Center. You can get it closer to the TV and while running wires behind a wall can be tough, it helps with the WAF.

Argh! I forgot to mention another WAF complication in addition to "no over-large A/V equipment" -- it's "no permanent changes". Everything must allow for the TV to be moved at some later date. I think that's unlikely (unless we build a more acoustically-friendly room, in which case I'm all over it), but it does rule out in-wall and in-ceiling solutions. I have been able to get into the walls to allow me to run speaker wires around the fireplace though.


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Originally Posted by GTDTS View Post
I used a 4.1 set up in my basement for about a year and the phantom center worked just fine. I think you will be happy with the Premier and the voices will be clear and understandable.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to give it a go as a 4.1 setup first, just to see how things work out. Given the crazy scattered seating however, I'm just anticipating that dialog clarity will likely still be an issue, with nobody sitting dead-center in the sweet spot.


Thanks to all for the advice so far. I should probably be getting the new fronts soon, and I can report back with how that goes, and my next adventure.
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post #37567 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by N.REED View Post
I usually try to buy my wife something nice just for her, and then buy the speaker(s) i want.

The Paradigms are attractive and come in different colors to suite just about any decor.

The set-up can be beautiful in its own way if executed correctly.

Basically my wife makes 98% of the decor decisions at home, but I get what I want in that one area LOL.

But to be honest, I have standards too. I can't look at speakers that completely dominate the living room or subwoofers that are the size of a refrigerator. I recently downsized from a large PowerSound sub to multiple smaller footprint JL Audio subs because i think it looks much better.
Which JL Audio subs did you go with? How do they compare to your PowerSound sub? I'm thinking of upgrading my 2 PDR 100's to JL Audio E110's.

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post #37568 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 07:03 PM
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Which JL Audio subs did you go with? How do they compare to your PowerSound sub? I'm thinking of upgrading my 2 PDR 100's to JL Audio E110's.


I had an S3000i and went to two e112s. No complaints here. The JLs are tiny and sound awesome. The two can pressurize my room as well as the big PSA did.

2 e110s will be a dramatic upgrade from the PDRs.

Are you willing to buy used? I have another e112 in perfect condition that I’m going to post for sale for a great price. (I bought a third one because I thought I might need it to replicate the PSA’s performance, but two more than does the trick)

PM me if you have interest. You may be able to get into a couple of e112s for less than 2 e110s this way.


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post #37569 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 08:15 PM
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Just set up the 700F's, and first impressions are great. I am really going to have to give it some time, though. It seems like the whole acoustics of the room behave differently now, so we have to give that phantom center a tryout before deciding further. They definitely don't struggle to fill the room like the 303's did, that's for sure. Also I still need to do MCACC/fine-tuning-type stuff.
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post #37570 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
So volume WxHxD makes a difference here since the center isn't inconspicuously tucked away like the sub.

As far as fitting, placing centers makes for some compromises here, mostly around height and display position, but that's a solvable problem.

What are your specific dimensional limitations?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
Argh! I forgot to mention another WAF complication in addition to "no over-large A/V equipment" -- it's "no permanent changes". Everything must allow for the TV to be moved at some later date. I think that's unlikely (unless we build a more acoustically-friendly room, in which case I'm all over it), but it does rule out in-wall and in-ceiling solutions. I have been able to get into the walls to allow me to run speaker wires around the fireplace though.

How about an on-wall option for that center?

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post #37571 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 08:26 PM
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What are your specific dimensional limitations?
It's more of a big ball of wibbly-wobbly audioey visualey stuff. Very subjective. But centers are front and center by definition, so high visibility is part of the problem here. Great big subs, not so bad, great big centers, bad. Maybe if they made acoustically transparent flat panels that I could afford...



But, as I said, I'm giving the phantom center a solid try first. Maybe much worry over nothing.


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How about an on-wall option for that center?

It's a corner setup, with an AV cabinet. I'm thinking setting right on top of the cabinet, in front, is the obvious choice. Maybe some over the display option may work.
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post #37572 of 37857 Old 11-20-2019, 11:25 PM
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I have a set of Paradigm Signature 4 L&R large bookshelf speakers. I like them a lot, but I need a center channel now, and the Sig series is G O N E. I like the characteristics of the beryllium tweeters in those Sig speakers. Not sure of my best move at this point, but thinking that a CC with beryllium might be the best match. Researching has suggested that beryllium tweeters in various speakers are STILL going to sound different.
(I guess I SHOULD have grabbed a Signature CC when I had the chance)...These are 8 ohm speakers. I know there are a few speakers out there with beryllium tweeters, incl Paradigm's own uber, uber $$$$$ top series. Ummm, I am going to limit myself to about $1500. for a center channel.
Recommendations?
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post #37573 of 37857 Old 11-21-2019, 07:01 AM
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The 55C is probably the best speaker in the whole line up.

I went with a 55C and 75Fs for my front three, because I use subwoofers and i felt that the 75Fs were the best batch with the center for tonality, as the three speakers use the same drivers.

No real complaints.

Thanks for the feedback. Everything I have read is that the 85F's are the sweet spot for the fronts. I will be adding new subs eventually which is also why I was staying away from he 95F's. As for the CC, to me, for HT it is the crucial. Get the best you can. I have been running numbers and deciding what to tell my wife they actually cost. Not a small amount of money, but I also figure, I won't have to replace them any time soon.
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post #37574 of 37857 Old 11-21-2019, 10:41 PM
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After trying out the 700Fs for a couple rounds of listening, I really like these speakers quite a bit, and am already very happy with them. While attempting to get everything just right, I've uncovered a ground loop in my sub cable I need to take care of -- I'm getting a new shielded cable to replace the trusty but shabby one I've been using since maybe the early nineties, and I'll route it more carefully as well.


I'll have to give it a few more tests with surround material before I make a decision on the center. The 303's work great as surrounds, and I don't think I'll need to replace them with dipoles or somesuch anytime soon. Meanwhile, my son's already itching to go 7.2
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post #37575 of 37857 Old 11-21-2019, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rockerrr View Post
A year ago I auditioned the 6000f speakers and they sounded good. But I decided that I would hold out and wait until I could
afford something better. Well now there is the 20% trade up and I just pulled the trigger on a pair of the Premier 800f speakers!
Lots of trickle down tech from the Prestige series. For $1600 I dont think I can do much better!
Cant wait till they get here!!
Review: I have had them now for a little over a week. About 10 hours on them. These are replacing a pair of Klipsch RB81III. The Klipsch sound good so I was a little afraid that the 800F's would not be worth the money. Well They Are! More bass, better midrange and nice treble! I have a little over 10hrs on them now and the the mids and highs are starting to really sing without being harsh. My Klipsh, especially the treble would sometimes get a little shrill or sibilance would rear its ugly head. The 800F's are crystal clear! Im really happy with my purchase! Take advantage of the 20% trade up!! You wont regret it!!
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post #37576 of 37857 Old 11-23-2019, 02:40 AM
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Well, order placed:

Elite E7 Series for LCR
Elite E80-IW surrounds
Elite E80-R for the ceiling Atmos speakers
Anthem 1120 receiver

Next up: Dual SVS PB-3000 subwoofers, and PC-4000.
Epson 6050UB projector, for the screen, Screen Innovations 160" in Slate 1.2 material.

The Anthem MRX 1120 plays very nicely with my Prestige setup. You'll be impressed. My movies and music have never sounded better!
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post #37577 of 37857 Old 11-25-2019, 07:51 AM
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Has anyone compared the Defiance X15 to the 2000 SW? It's the same size driver and I'm sure there are features that make it "better", but not sure if it's worth the difference of $2,500.


Or should I just change gears completely and go with the SVS PB-16. I've been told the X15 is comparable to the PB-16 on the main frequencies that you hear.
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post #37578 of 37857 Old 11-25-2019, 11:32 AM
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The Anthem MRX 1120 plays very nicely with my Prestige setup. You'll be impressed. My movies and music have never sounded better!
Do tell...do tell...
What were you coming from. The reason I ask is that I'm looking to upgrade my Onkyo and am willing to reach a little bit.

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post #37579 of 37857 Old 11-25-2019, 03:21 PM
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Has anyone compared the Defiance X15 to the 2000 SW? It's the same size driver and I'm sure there are features that make it "better", but not sure if it's worth the difference of $2,500.


Or should I just change gears completely and go with the SVS PB-16. I've been told the X15 is comparable to the PB-16 on the main frequencies that you hear.
The PB goes rather deeper than the X15, but for Paradigm, the X15 really isn't a bad deal. I'd still steer you towards a great ID sub maker like PSA over either SVS or Paradigm, though. PSA's new neo based lineup is really amazing, depending how you feel about a more basic industrial design.
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post #37580 of 37857 Old 11-28-2019, 08:57 AM
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Just to update you on my cheap 2.1 -> surround progress, this is just what happens when a non-audiophile decides to start listening to his system critically for a change. You start to notice all kinds of stuff that's been problematic for who knows how long.

So first off: the Paradigm 700F's are great fronts. The B&W DM303's (former fronts) are now great surrounds.

The sub (B&W ASW500) had issues. I found out while calibrating that the sub had a 60Hz hum, which I fixed by swapping out its old vintage RCA cable for a nice shielded RCA cable. But it seems it had had this hum for some time, and that someone had turned down the subwoofer until the hum was unnoticeable. Thus, the sub used to sound pretty anemic. With the new cable in-place and volume back up, it's like I have a whole new sub. It doesn't go all the way down to 20Hz, but it now goes down to 30 with some authority, which may be good enough for my purposes. I also got one of those Subdudes because my old house has lots of rattles (some of which are sure to continue), and because the ASW500 doesn't have rubber feet, and scooted across my hardwood floor amusingly during the calibration routine.

While trying to determine if there was a dialogue clarity problem, I found that the Amazon Video app on my Roku has a very slight lip sync problem that comes and goes. I wasn't able to resolve this (much to my chagrin, because I cannot unsee this), but listening to other sources I think I'm leaning toward getting a center speaker, the Paradigm 500C or 600C, yet to be determined. I may also get another streamer, if I can ensure the Amazon sync is good, but since this is app-specific I wonder if it's a global Amazon Video app problem.
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post #37581 of 37857 Old 12-01-2019, 07:42 PM
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Im very interested on anybodys opinion on the 6000f and 2000c to replace my front soundstage of an older pair of studio 20v3 with phantom center , I wonder how
the 2000c center would sound with my 20's? its on for a very good price right now ,
I was also looking at the premier series but wondering if worth double the 6000f for the 700f's for my aging ears ? I also am looking at replacing my pdr 12 with possibly an x12 as i like the app and arc , im running a mrx 520
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post #37582 of 37857 Old 12-01-2019, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kjonesversatech View Post
Im very interested on anybodys opinion on the 6000f and 2000c to replace my front soundstage of an older pair of studio 20v3 with phantom center , I wonder how
the 2000c center would sound with my 20's? its on for a very good price right now ,
I was also looking at the premier series but wondering if worth double the 6000f for the 700f's for my aging ears ? I also am looking at replacing my pdr 12 with possibly an x12 as i like the app and arc , im running a mrx 520

I'm new to Paradigm (so I can't say anything about their older models), but I just auditioned both the 6000F's and the 700F's and went with the 700F's. But it was an unexpectedly close call -- the 6000F's sound very nearly as good IMO. It's possible the 700F's may use some better materials that help with the speaker's longevity (others who know more may be able to say if this is the case), but as far as sound's concerned, they are both very revealing speakers and good with vocals -- I'm terrible with audio terms, but the 700F seemed a touch more lively, if that means something. But I just saw the whole Monitor line is 25% off, and wow the 6000F is a VERY good speaker for that price.
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post #37583 of 37857 Old 12-02-2019, 02:13 PM
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I just ordered the 500C. I can understand and appreciate the 600C recommendation, but the 600C was physically in the "no way" WAF category after seeing it. On the other hand, it may have been the contrast with the 600C that made the 500C such an easy sell, so it may have still served a useful purpose.
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post #37584 of 37857 Old 12-03-2019, 10:07 AM
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Just to update you on my cheap 2.1 -> surround progress, this is just what happens when a non-audiophile decides to start listening to his system critically for a change. You start to notice all kinds of stuff that's been problematic for who knows how long.

So first off: the Paradigm 700F's are great fronts. The B&W DM303's (former fronts) are now great surrounds.

The sub (B&W ASW500) had issues. I found out while calibrating that the sub had a 60Hz hum, which I fixed by swapping out its old vintage RCA cable for a nice shielded RCA cable. But it seems it had had this hum for some time, and that someone had turned down the subwoofer until the hum was unnoticeable. Thus, the sub used to sound pretty anemic. With the new cable in-place and volume back up, it's like I have a whole new sub. It doesn't go all the way down to 20Hz, but it now goes down to 30 with some authority, which may be good enough for my purposes. I also got one of those Subdudes because my old house has lots of rattles (some of which are sure to continue), and because the ASW500 doesn't have rubber feet, and scooted across my hardwood floor amusingly during the calibration routine.

While trying to determine if there was a dialogue clarity problem, I found that the Amazon Video app on my Roku has a very slight lip sync problem that comes and goes. I wasn't able to resolve this (much to my chagrin, because I cannot unsee this), but listening to other sources I think I'm leaning toward getting a center speaker, the Paradigm 500C or 600C, yet to be determined. I may also get another streamer, if I can ensure the Amazon sync is good, but since this is app-specific I wonder if it's a global Amazon Video app problem.
Congrats on your journey. I'm glad you are happy with the 700F's! I think that line up adopted some tech from the Persona line that helps with clarity. My experience with Paradigm was awe in how clear (especially vocals) music was. I still really enjoy how those speakers sing and am amazed when I hear an old song "for the first time". Give them a few more hours...they definitely need a break in period...especially the tweeters.


On your Roku lip sync...Just a suggestion...Roku sounded much better when I directly plugged it into the receiver. If plugged into the TV or the TV is the source, I've experienced terrible sound from that.

Music Room 5.1.2: L/R Paradigm Prestige 85F, Prestige CC55, CI Elite E80-A (Atmos), CI Elite E65-R, HSU VTF-15H MK2 sub, Onkyo TXNR-838, Emotiva XPA3 Gen2.
Samsung 65" JS9500 and Sony UBP-X800
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post #37585 of 37857 Old 12-03-2019, 09:25 PM
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Congrats on your journey.

Yeah, it's a journey alright, no end in sight I just decided that while my old sub was worlds better than it once was, it still wasn't quite right. So SVS, not Hsu, won that battle (small size wins me over again with the SB-2000). Now all eyes are on the surrounds, which I swear sound great -- at least until I hear someone else's system...


Quote:
On your Roku lip sync...Just a suggestion...Roku sounded much better when I directly plugged it into the receiver. If plugged into the TV or the TV is the source, I've experienced terrible sound from that.
It's plugged right into the receiver already. I've done lots of experiments, but it appears to be a slow drift in the Amazon stream. Periodically restarting the stream fixes it, but that's not exactly a solution I'm happy with.

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post #37586 of 37857 Old 12-04-2019, 04:57 AM
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Has anyone compared the Defiance X15 to the 2000 SW? It's the same size driver and I'm sure there are features that make it "better", but not sure if it's worth the difference of $2,500.


Or should I just change gears completely and go with the SVS PB-16. I've been told the X15 is comparable to the PB-16 on the main frequencies that you hear.
Unless you already have an Anthem receiver or Dirac, I'd buy the X15. Having good room correction will probably make the X15 sound better than any other sub that doesn't have it.
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post #37587 of 37857 Old 12-04-2019, 12:41 PM
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It's plugged right into the receiver already. I've done lots of experiments, but it appears to be a slow drift in the Amazon stream. Periodically restarting the stream fixes it, but that's not exactly a solution I'm happy with.
Sounds like a question for the Roku forums.

Is it only Amazon?

I haven't noticed it with my Ultra. I don't use Amazon a lot though. No problems with Netflix, Plex, or Hulu (also lightly used)
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post #37588 of 37857 Old 12-04-2019, 03:09 PM
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Sounds like a question for the Roku forums.

Is it only Amazon?

I haven't noticed it with my Ultra. I don't use Amazon a lot though. No problems with Netflix, Plex, or Hulu (also lightly used)

Mine's also an Ultra, and the problem seems exclusive to Amazon. Netflix, etc, are fine. Yes, ultimately this is a problem for the Roku forums. That's just a dreadful prospect because 1) it doesn't always happen, 2) even when it's happening, I'm the only one in the room who notices it (the sync difference is on the order of 100ms -- very subtle, not like a 1980's Hong Kong dub), and 3) I've heard reports of it happening on other non-Roku devices, so even if I could convince someone the bug is real, they may still be in no position to fix it.
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post #37589 of 37857 Old 12-04-2019, 04:51 PM
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3) I've heard reports of it happening on other non-Roku devices
Sounds like an Amazon problem then. Even less likely to be fixed.
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post #37590 of 37857 Old 12-09-2019, 02:51 PM
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Has anyone had experience with the MilleniaOne for Atmos use? These would be ideal for my setup being that they can be mounted easily. My dealer mentioned that with the Prestige series it may not be the best. Not because of timbre match but because of the frequency of the speaker.

Being that these will be for Atmos and there won’t be much content going to them, would these blend well or would they stick out like a sore thumb? I’ve heard that you don’t need much for decent Atmos production.
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