Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 1264 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37891 of 37978 Old 02-03-2020, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
I think a lot of the dislike for the whole Premier line is over the plastic cabinets. I absolutely understand this from an aesthetic POV. Wood looks better, feels better, fits your room better. The Premier finishes are uninteresting, even for plastic: glossy black, glossy white, deeply unconvincing pretend wood. But aside from that (some would insert a "Mrs. Lincoln" right here), the cabinets are just fine IMO. And the speakers are quite good, as you observed. I ended up with the 800F's baby brothers, the 700F's (glossy black). No regrets here.
I ended up getting the 700Fs as well, as I got a great deal on a new pair. I'm still breaking them in, but am happy with the sound compared to my 20 year old Monitor 7 V2s, definitely more responsive and more detail. I almost got a pair of prestige 15Bs, but he sold them quickly. I'm wishing I could get more bass out of them, but I think it's just my receiver not being beefy enough (Denon 1500H). I need to get a decent sub down the road to add to it. Personally I like the glossy black cabinets, they are pretty!
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post #37892 of 37978 Old 02-03-2020, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
I think a lot of the dislike for the whole Premier line is over the plastic cabinets. I absolutely understand this from an aesthetic POV.
Sort of a bummer that the up-scale Premier line is using so much plastic compared the the down scale Monitor of just a few years ago.
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post #37893 of 37978 Old 02-03-2020, 02:07 PM
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WAF is rather high on my gloss black 200Bs, she likes them better than the black walnut 15Bs by far.
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post #37894 of 37978 Old 02-04-2020, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Scarriere View Post
I loved my Studio 60's and 590, both v5. But the Premier series are definitely a worthy upgrade.

...

While boxing up my Studios, I was a bit sad. They're beautiful speakers and have served me so well over the past several years.
But a few hours with the Premiers and I know there will be no looking back.
This just goes to show you how subjective this whole hobby is, and the value of listening with your ears instead of letting forum posts tell you what to buy.

When the Prestige first came out, initial reviews in this long thread were a bit ambivalent towards them, with a plurality of people preferring the Studio v5s, especially for the price. Preference to Studio v5 aesthetics was more broad, but of course has nothing to do with sound (though the curved cabinets may break up cabinet resonance better).

However, you're the first person I've seen who directly compared the Premier vs the Studio v5, and was surprised to see that you preferred the Premiers. Not having heard them compared directly, I can't possibly have an opinion.

Someone new to this thread trying to compare the lines might find themselves hopelessly lost though! Here are a bunch of people saying the Studio v5 was just as good as the Prestige, some strongly prefer the Prestige, some still might strongly prefer the Studio, then most people would say that the Prestige is better than the Premier, but here's one person saying that even the Premier is better than the Studio.

Never mind the Signature v1 vs Studio v5 argument, given their close similarities (disclosure: these both comprise most of my mutt of a system).

Try following that! Just goes to show - listen with your ears, not with other people's opinions.

Around 50: Studio > Prestige / Studio = Prestige
Nearly 100%: Prestige > Premier
But also some: Premier > Studio

Anyway, sorry for the digression. Glad you like your new speakers.

2Ch: Magnepan 1.7i | LR: Paradigm Signature S4 v1 | C:Paradigm Prestige 55C | Surrounds & Rear: Paradigm Studio 20v5 (x4) | Atmos: Micca M-8C
Subs: Rythmik E15HP (x2) | AVR: Denon X4300H | Amp: Outlaw Model 5000 | TV: Sony XBR75x850E | Players: Oppo UDP-203, U-Turn Orbit Plus

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post #37895 of 37978 Old 02-07-2020, 04:47 AM
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Hello

I have a question concerning the prestige series and AT screens. In about 6 weeks I’m going to install a new 144” SI pure white AT screen. Instead of buying different speakers I thought about using my existing prestige 95 behind the screen. I would probably buy another 95 for center channel duties and sell my 55 c. Any thoughts on this? Positive or negative. Thank you

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post #37896 of 37978 Old 02-07-2020, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Applemike68 View Post
I have a question concerning the prestige series and AT screens. In about 6 weeks I’m going to install a new 144” SI pure white AT screen. Instead of buying different speakers I thought about using my existing prestige 95 behind the screen. I would probably buy another 95 for center channel duties and sell my 55 c. Any thoughts on this? Positive or negative. Thank you

Given the cost difference, and that you'd probably take a loss on the 55C, I'd try it with the 55C first, just see what you think of it. BUT - absolutely nothing wrong with wanting 3 x 95F across the front! All matched, tweeters at same height - well, that's a good thing.
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
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Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
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post #37897 of 37978 Old 02-07-2020, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Given the cost difference, and that you'd probably take a loss on the 55C, I'd try it with the 55C first, just see what you think of it. BUT - absolutely nothing wrong with wanting 3 x 95F across the front! All matched, tweeters at same height - well, that's a good thing.
Thank you.. That was what I was thinking, everything a the same height.

Additional benefit, the 55C was free during a promotion they had a few years ago.

Thanks again,

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post #37898 of 37978 Old 02-07-2020, 09:59 AM
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In considering swapping out my Studio series for the Prestige series I wonder if anyone would chime in on their experience between the Sub 12 and the 1000SW sub. It looks like the major difference is between the amplifier dynamic peak performance. The numbers for the 1000SW are half that of the older Sub 12. How important is that specification in a subwoofer? Having asked that, when looking at a specification sheet, what are the most important specifications for a subwoofer.....besides actually listening to it?
Thanks fella's.
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post #37899 of 37978 Old 02-07-2020, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeyf View Post
In considering swapping out my Studio series for the Prestige series I wonder if anyone would chime in on their experience between the Sub 12 and the 1000SW sub. It looks like the major difference is between the amplifier dynamic peak performance. The numbers for the 1000SW are half that of the older Sub 12. How important is that specification in a subwoofer? Having asked that, when looking at a specification sheet, what are the most important specifications for a subwoofer.....besides actually listening to it?
Thanks fella's.
The subwoofer driver could be 3dB more efficient therefore needing half the power to drive it.
You want to look for flat output throughout it's operational range (roughly 15-200Hz), extension to a minimum of 20Hz at a high enough SPL for your room's needs, and getting "enough" subwoofers to pressurize the entire volume of air in your room (AND any open-floorplan areas that are attached to your room).
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post #37900 of 37978 Old 02-07-2020, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by csprague View Post
This just goes to show you how subjective this whole hobby is, and the value of listening with your ears instead of letting forum posts tell you what to buy.

When the Prestige first came out, initial reviews in this long thread were a bit ambivalent towards them, with a plurality of people preferring the Studio v5s, especially for the price. Preference to Studio v5 aesthetics was more broad, but of course has nothing to do with sound (though the curved cabinets may break up cabinet resonance better).

However, you're the first person I've seen who directly compared the Premier vs the Studio v5, and was surprised to see that you preferred the Premiers. Not having heard them compared directly, I can't possibly have an opinion.

Someone new to this thread trying to compare the lines might find themselves hopelessly lost though! Here are a bunch of people saying the Studio v5 was just as good as the Prestige, some strongly prefer the Prestige, some still might strongly prefer the Studio, then most people would say that the Prestige is better than the Premier, but here's one person saying that even the Premier is better than the Studio.

Never mind the Signature v1 vs Studio v5 argument, given their close similarities (disclosure: these both comprise most of my mutt of a system).

Try following that! Just goes to show - listen with your ears, not with other people's opinions.

Around 50: Studio > Prestige / Studio = Prestige
Nearly 100%: Prestige > Premier
But also some: Premier > Studio

Anyway, sorry for the digression. Glad you like your new speakers.
Put me in the category of the Prestige blows away the Studio. Scarriere boxing up his studios...well that's me. I fell in love with these speakers. They brought me into the audioholic fold. I still have them. I still use them in another set up.
As much as I loved my Studios, the Prestige line made me upgrade them. Prestige is much clearer and still hold that signature Paradigm sound somehow. I will be truly heartbroken when I have to box up my Studios and may never do it...however, I've not heard anything better than the Prestige's. They are a serious step up. Again, one guys opinion.
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post #37901 of 37978 Old 02-08-2020, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sigpig View Post
The subwoofer driver could be 3dB more efficient therefore needing half the power to drive it.
You want to look for flat output throughout it's operational range (roughly 15-200Hz), extension to a minimum of 20Hz at a high enough SPL for your room's needs, and getting "enough" subwoofers to pressurize the entire volume of air in your room (AND any open-floorplan areas that are attached to your room).
Thanks! This helps. I often wonder if I should just look away from the specifications when all I need to do is go listen.
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post #37902 of 37978 Old 02-08-2020, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by GTDTS View Post
Put me in the category of the Prestige blows away the Studio. Scarriere boxing up his studios...well that's me. I fell in love with these speakers. They brought me into the audioholic fold. I still have them. I still use them in another set up.
As much as I loved my Studios, the Prestige line made me upgrade them. Prestige is much clearer and still hold that signature Paradigm sound somehow. I will be truly heartbroken when I have to box up my Studios and may never do it...however, I've not heard anything better than the Prestige's. They are a serious step up. Again, one guys opinion.
Nice! As I've asked a few others on this thread, what were your thoughts about Paradigm subwoofers versus what you have in your system?
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post #37903 of 37978 Old 02-10-2020, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeyf View Post
Nice! As I've asked a few others on this thread, what were your thoughts about Paradigm subwoofers versus what you have in your system?
Sorry @mikeyf ...I've never owned a Paradigm sub. I went with HSU's flagship VTF-15H-MK2. Recently purchased another HSU that is a step down for my basement HT...VTF3 or something IIRC. I stumbled across HSU while reading Paradigm reviews. While trying to understand this market, the reviewer said the HSU was the only product he reviewed and did not return. That sold me...and so I ordered the MK2 to try it, and I was blown away. Literally. I got caught in a movie scene that I was showing to my father in law. It was an early scene in the movie Fury, where the shell comes down on the tank crew. I thought it was going to shake the dry wall off the wall...it scared us both LOL!

I just read the Paradigm review on the Homepage of the AVS Forum. It sounds like that Defiance X12 punches above its weight...and for the price, it was reviewed well. I'm sure there is a dealer around that will let you demo? For me, its a pain to get to a dealer.

Good luck and let us know what you decide. Always interested in hearing others opinion here on matters like this.

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post #37904 of 37978 Old 02-11-2020, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeyf View Post
Nice! As I've asked a few others on this thread, what were your thoughts about Paradigm subwoofers versus what you have in your system?
I have three Paradigm subwoofers.

Two are from the Monitor line from a few years ago. SUB 10 and SUB 12. They were my entry into somewhat decent subwoofers. They're not available now and are dated, compared to what you can get now for a similar price.

My other sub is the new Defiance X-15 and I got it last month. Physically, it's a beast. It is way better than the two it replaced.

I have the Defiance in the living room and the SUB 10 helping out a bit on the other side of the room.
The SUB 12 is going into my bedroom.

I went with the Defiance over a SVS 4000 series because I wanted to support Canadian business while getting something fairly decent.

For the price, ID subs from PSA, SVS, Hsu, and more, will get you more bang for the buck.

There are plenty of sharp dudes who know a lot about subs on the site here that can give great recommendations if you give them a budget.

Happy hunting!

*edit
I put sound isolation feet from SVS on my Defiance last night and am eager to see what difference they'll make.
I watched Godzilla King of the Monsters a couple of days ago and the Defiance shaking my couch was relentless.
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post #37905 of 37978 Old 02-12-2020, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GTDTS View Post
Put me in the category of the Prestige blows away the Studio. Scarriere boxing up his studios...well that's me. I fell in love with these speakers. They brought me into the audioholic fold. I still have them. I still use them in another set up.
As much as I loved my Studios, the Prestige line made me upgrade them. Prestige is much clearer and still hold that signature Paradigm sound somehow. I will be truly heartbroken when I have to box up my Studios and may never do it...however, I've not heard anything better than the Prestige's. They are a serious step up. Again, one guys opinion.
Thanks for the responses....to all you guys. I have grown attached to the Studio's as well. I can audition any of the Paradigm's at a local dealer that I have been loyal to for twenty years. Auditioning other sub's is not so easy so I'm not sure where that will go. However, I am impressed to hear that the Prestige series has been a significant step up over the Studio's.
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Help me decide my HT upgrade! For movies and games only. Budget is $5k. The room is 12x21x9’ and carpeted.

I already have a Denon S940H and V10 Sub (I’m replacing my Cerwin Vega Center, JVC towers and small bookshelfs.

Thinking:

1x 45C
4x 15B

Or

1x 600C
2x 800F
2x 200B

Or

1x 600C
4x 200B
+second V10 or new Denon X3600/4500

Or

Monitor SE series
Second V10 and Denon X3600/4500

I know I’m all over the place so thanks for your patience!
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post #37908 of 37978 Old 02-13-2020, 06:56 AM
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Paradigm Owners Thread

Interesting discussion about the studio series vs. prestige. Both by most accounts are great. We recently moved and the bass response of my studio 100s v.5 is massively better in the much smaller enclosed room they are in now. I was honestly shocked. I can sort of understand now why some think they could do without a sub if they didn’t have a proper sub. With that said, a proper sub is much better when in the mix and it’s not close. I would like to see measurements of the studios vs. prestige. Someone should post those in the thread. There are so many factors that impact perceived sound quality. Room is the biggest, hearing ability, and on and on so measurements are the only way to really see the difference. I’ve always heard the prestige had a little more “top end presence”. I’ve always said that treble to many is perceived as clearer to most, and I really believe that. Let’s see the measurements.


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post #37909 of 37978 Old 02-13-2020, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gyotar View Post
Help me decide my HT upgrade! For movies and games only. Budget is $5k. The room is 12x21x9’ and carpeted.

1x 45C
4x 15B
...
1x 600C
4x 200B
+second V10
I like those two, especially the 2nd, though a better sub that can go deeper (15Hz) would fill in what the V10 misses.
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post #37910 of 37978 Old 02-13-2020, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by gyotar View Post
Help me decide my HT upgrade! For movies and games only. Budget is $5k. The room is 12x21x9’ and carpeted.

I already have a Denon S940H and V10 Sub (I’m replacing my Cerwin Vega Center, JVC towers and small bookshelfs.

Thinking:

1x 45C
4x 15B

Or

1x 600C
2x 800F
2x 200B

Or

1x 600C
4x 200B
+second V10 or new Denon X3600/4500


I know I’m all over the place so thanks for your patience!
I like those first three options.
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post #37911 of 37978 Old 02-13-2020, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tidwelr1 View Post
Interesting discussion about the studio series vs. prestige. Both by most accounts are great. We recently moved and the bass response of my studio 100s v.5 is massively better in the much smaller enclosed room they are in now. I was honestly shocked. I can sort of understand now why some think they could do without a sub if they didn’t have a proper sub. With that said, a proper sub is much better when in the mix and it’s not close. I would like to see measurements of the studios vs. prestige. Someone should post those in the thread. There are so many factors that impact perceived sound quality. Room is the biggest, hearing ability, and on and on so measurements are the only way to really see the difference. I’ve always heard the prestige had a little more “top end presence”. I’ve always said that treble to many is perceived as clearer to most, and I really believe that. Let’s see the measurements.


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Studio 100v5 gotta be the most beautiful speakers ever made.
With me having the 60's, I know that they sound great also!
I haven't heard Prestige, so am unable to comment on that.
I know there's at least one person here who has made the switch of Studio 100v5 to Prestige. Maybe he'll comment at some point.
I don't think measurements tell the whole story. That's just mho.
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post #37912 of 37978 Old 02-13-2020, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tidwelr1 View Post
Interesting discussion about the studio series vs. prestige. Both by most accounts are great. We recently moved and the bass response of my studio 100s v.5 is massively better in the much smaller enclosed room they are in now. I was honestly shocked. I can sort of understand now why some think they could do without a sub if they didn’t have a proper sub. With that said, a proper sub is much better when in the mix and it’s not close. I would like to see measurements of the studios vs. prestige. Someone should post those in the thread. There are so many factors that impact perceived sound quality. Room is the biggest, hearing ability, and on and on so measurements are the only way to really see the difference. I’ve always heard the prestige had a little more “top end presence”. I’ve always said that treble to many is perceived as clearer to most, and I really believe that. Let’s see the measurements.


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Exactly! I just had new cabinets built around my fireplace and new carpeting/carpet pad (whole room) in the living area where my Studio 60's, CC490, Sub 12 have existed for nine years. I haven't done PBK again, I have simply used the manual test tone (Yamaha RX-2070) to calibrate the soundstage in the room. For some reason I trust my ears over the automatic calibration. Curious about any thoughts out there about that.
Anyway, the new cabinets eliminated squeaks and vibrations and the new carpet makes the sound, especially bass 'feel' different. The sound is cleaner, bass not so boomy. Like many of you I would LOVE to upgrade but to what end? It would mean close to 10k with trade in.
What have experiences been with automated calibrations of your systems?
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post #37913 of 37978 Old 02-13-2020, 09:28 PM
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I am new to the forum. Kind of getting back into home theater. Bought a pair of the 800f premier speakers to replace 15 year old Mirage's om-10's. The rest of my 7.1 system is PSB, with a Mirage 12" frx-12 sub. The Paradigm sound very similar to my PSBs. A much better match then the om-12s were. I love them, voices VERY clean. And much improved imaging then the om-12s could muster. Although the soundstage of the om-12 was massive the Paradigm's are much cleaner and sharper and more precise? If that makes any sense. I can really point to instruments with my eyes closed much easier with the Paradigms. Does anyone have Paradigms large premere center channel?

Anyway, thanks for listening. I love these, they are my first Paradigm speakers.
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post #37914 of 37978 Old 02-13-2020, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeyf View Post

What have experiences been with automated calibrations of your systems?
Our ears are generally very poor for calibrating sound. We can easily discern small changes that affect the overall sound. Never mind the various sensitivity to different frequencies and age relayed losses.


Then add personal preferences.

I trust the calibration tools to give an even pallet that the producer/mixer/engineer/artist then paint as they wish.

Adding my preferences to the tonal balance is like looking at paintings/photos through tinted lenses.

Would you go to a live performance and tell the conductor to have the bases and tympani play louder? Or the guy on the mixing board to adjust to your preferences?
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post #37915 of 37978 Old 02-14-2020, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiolover69:) View Post
I am new to the forum. Kind of getting back into home theater. Bought a pair of the 800f premier speakers to replace 15 year old Mirage's om-10's. The rest of my 7.1 system is PSB, with a Mirage 12" frx-12 sub. The Paradigm sound very similar to my PSBs. A much better match then the om-12s were. I love them, voices VERY clean. And much improved imaging then the om-12s could muster. Although the soundstage of the om-12 was massive the Paradigm's are much cleaner and sharper and more precise? If that makes any sense. I can really point to instruments with my eyes closed much easier with the Paradigms. Does anyone have Paradigms large premere center channel?

Anyway, thanks for listening. I love these, they are my first Paradigm speakers.
I can certainly attest to the clarity. In fact, I was sitting down last night listening in 2 channel marveling how I could point out certain instruments. Deeply listening for flaws and not finding any. Congrats on the new purchase. For the money, I really think you made the best decision in the market based on what I know about the various lines that are out there today. The Premier line is an exceptional value IMHO.
And ENJOY! Don't let anyone talk you out of what YOU like.
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Music Room 5.1.2: L/R Paradigm Prestige 85F, Prestige CC55, CI Elite E80-A (Atmos), CI Elite E65-R, HSU VTF-15H MK2 sub, Onkyo TXNR-838, Emotiva XPA3 Gen2.
Samsung 65" JS9500 and Sony UBP-X800
Room: 13' X 11'6" X 14' Fairly new audioholic

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post #37916 of 37978 Old 02-14-2020, 07:41 AM
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I like those first three options.
Option #2 .
If you had music in there...Option#1.

Option #2 gives you the bigger towers to energize the room and that's what you want. I assume you have a sub already. Crank it up!
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Music Room 5.1.2: L/R Paradigm Prestige 85F, Prestige CC55, CI Elite E80-A (Atmos), CI Elite E65-R, HSU VTF-15H MK2 sub, Onkyo TXNR-838, Emotiva XPA3 Gen2.
Samsung 65" JS9500 and Sony UBP-X800
Room: 13' X 11'6" X 14' Fairly new audioholic
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post #37917 of 37978 Old 02-14-2020, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by GTDTS View Post
Option #2 .

If you had music in there...Option#1.



Option #2 gives you the bigger towers to energize the room and that's what you want. I assume you have a sub already. Crank it up!
He stated he has a V10 if you look at the OP not the reply to it.

I think the towers would be wasted for HT/gaming and a 2nd, deeper sub would give better results.

Now if he already had a deep sub (say an X12 or X15, or similar)...
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post #37918 of 37978 Old 02-14-2020, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyf View Post
What have experiences been with automated calibrations of your systems?

I think the auto-calibration (MCACC) generally worked for my system, but fell down hard on the sub, and I don't think that's really too unusual of a scenario. So I used an SPL meter and test tones/sweeps to get the levels and phase right for the sub, and I'm now very satisfied. But I'm still trusting measurements and devices over my ears for the initial calibration, and then theoretically fine-tuning by ear... but I haven't found the need for that later fine-tuning. At least for me, device-based calibration gets you 100% of the way there.
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post #37919 of 37978 Old 02-14-2020, 04:15 PM
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I think the auto-calibration (MCACC) generally worked for my system, but fell down hard on the sub, and I don't think that's really too unusual of a scenario.
That really depends on the room correction used.
Anthem does really good (same algorithm as Perfect Base Kit).

I believe Dirac does a lot for subs and is on par with Anthem.

MCACC has at least 3 versions (base, Advanced, and Pro). My understanding is only Pro dies any correction on sub (beyond level) and it's nothing like Anthem.

Audyssey has several versions too. Not a clue which do much for sub.

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post #37920 of 37978 Old 02-15-2020, 12:48 PM
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What do you all think of Yamahas calibration?
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