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post #38251 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by electronjunkie View Post
Whether it's for a bathroom fan exhaust or a plumbing vent just simply cut it, get the necessary fittings, extra pipe, glue and reroute it. Easy peasy.
Also, as a safety precaution if you're going to be playing in pink fiberglass insulation I highly recommend wearing an approved dust mask or respirator.
MMFs (Man Made Fibers) such as pink fiberglass insulation can be just as dangerous as Asbestos.



If you are already up there and you have good access clean out the fiberglass insulation down to the drywall box off the ceiling joists with matching 2" x lumber on each side of speaker placement and install high density mdf board over the top, seal all joints and incoming wire with sealant to form a back box cover areas back up with insulation, install some batt insulation inside the now speaker box and you will not have to worry anymore about sound going through the attic.
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post #38252 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 05:11 AM
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If you are building a back box call Paradigm. They will give you the ideal volume the box should be for whichever inwall or inceiling speaker model you are considering. I would make the box bigger than recommended and fill it with a little insulation or poly-fill. You will want to do this anyway. Making it bigger allows you to add more insulation/polyfill until you get the volume correct. I have done this before and work in acoustics. You will definitely hear the sound difference with different amounts of insulation/polyfill as you change the volume of the back box. You can also take measurements and find the best amount.
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post #38253 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 05:40 AM
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Paradigm Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by SSnarski View Post
If you are already up there and you have good access clean out the fiberglass insulation down to the drywall box off the ceiling joists with matching 2" x lumber on each side of speaker placement and install high density mdf board over the top, seal all joints and incoming wire with sealant to form a back box cover areas back up with insulation, install some batt insulation inside the now speaker box and you will not have to worry anymore about sound going through the attic.

I think I’m going to try it without a back box initially, and see what it sounds like. The paradigm instruction manual says to put a 12” piece of insulation material over the speaker with the situation I have. I know many have added back boxes for their atmos speakers. Seems like a major pain to make them unless someone on here has the blueprints for doing them. Have you tried it both ways and found adding the backer box really helped? I would think it helps with Bass a good bit with the situation I have.


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post #38254 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 07:15 AM
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I think I’m going to try it without a back box initially, and see what it sounds like. The paradigm instruction manual says to put a 12” piece of insulation material over the speaker with the situation I have. I know many have added back boxes for their atmos speakers. Seems like a major pain to make them unless someone on here has the blueprints for doing them. Have you tried it both ways and found adding the backer box really helped? I would think it helps with Bass a good bit with the situation I have.


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I would say try it without the boxes and see if you are happy with the results, i live in Dayton, Ohio and above my living room where i put atmos speakers in is attic space - with winter months getting as cold as it does up here i was more concerned about condensation and heat loss, but putting in the proper size boxes and fill material can make a difference - how much i can't tell you i never measured before and after and did not try without a backbox, i can tell you there are 9' ceilings in my living room 8' ceilings in my theater room - 9' ceilings make a considerable difference in how atmos is perceived - so will a back box make a considerable difference - not sure until you test it for yourself. If you never had atmos in ceiling speakers before either way you are going to be overwhelmed with any result you get - two in the ceiling is OK but when you get up to four in ceiling it really makes a difference.
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post #38255 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tidwelr1 View Post
Good deal. Thanks. Will definitely use a stud finder before cutting the holes. Room is on the second floor so no floor above. Just open attic. I’ve used paradigm in walls before without back boxes and they sounded great but that was in wall with drywall behind them. Wondering if I should be concerned about the open ceiling aspect in my situation?


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I think you are fine. They are designed for all that. For fun, power up the speaker, play some music and hold it in your hand. I sounds terrible. Put it in the hole you cut, it sounds great.
As an aside, if I cut a hole into the attic, I would get a shower of white fluffy insulation. I would recommend making sure it seals well just for heating/cooling efficiency purposes.

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post #38256 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 08:32 AM
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I would say try it without the boxes and see if you are happy with the results, i live in Dayton, Ohio and above my living room where i put atmos speakers in is attic space - with winter months getting as cold as it does up here i was more concerned about condensation and heat loss, but putting in the proper size boxes and fill material can make a difference - how much i can't tell you i never measured before and after and did not try without a backbox, i can tell you there are 9' ceilings in my living room 8' ceilings in my theater room - 9' ceilings make a considerable difference in how atmos is perceived - so will a back box make a considerable difference - not sure until you test it for yourself. If you never had atmos in ceiling speakers before either way you are going to be overwhelmed with any result you get - two in the ceiling is OK but when you get up to four in ceiling it really makes a difference.

Is the impact much less with a 9’ ceiling compared to 8’? My back speakers will be close to the back wall as it’s a small space. I read an easy way to determine the location for the front atmos speakers is to measure the distance bw your head when seated and the ceiling and put the fronts that distance from the back atmos speakers. So it would be 4-5 ft with an 8 ft ceiling. That seems about right to me.


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post #38257 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tidwelr1 View Post
Is the impact much less with a 9’ ceiling compared to 8’? My back speakers will be close to the back wall as it’s a small space. I read an easy way to determine the location for the front atmos speakers is to measure the distance bw your head when seated and the ceiling and put the fronts that distance from the back atmos speakers. So it would be 4-5 ft with an 8 ft ceiling. That seems about right to me.

That is correct. That is for "ideal" placement. You have an angular range to work with, placement is pretty forgiving. Go for ideal, and if you have to vary a bit, do not sweat it at all.
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post #38258 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 09:14 AM
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You should also use angled speakers. Speakers sound better when they aim towards the listening area. Unfortunately Dolby's diagrams are incorrect showing ceiling speakers aiming straight down and then say they should be 30-45 degrees in front of you. Dolby even says in their installation guide to aim the speakers but don't show it in their diagrams online. No matter how good the off axis is of a speaker you will have decreased highs if they are that far off axis. Use angled speakers can't state this enough.

Picture of Dolby's demo room. Why aren't the bookshelf speakers aiming straight down.

Here is a link to some other info in the video.
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post #38259 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 09:56 AM
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You should also use angled speakers. Speakers sound better when they aim towards the listening area. Unfortunately Dolby's diagrams are incorrect showing ceiling speakers aiming straight down and then say they should be 30-45 degrees in front of you. Dolby even says in their installation guide to aim the speakers but don't show it in their diagrams online. No matter how good the off axis is of a speaker you will have decreased highs if they are that far off axis. Use angled speakers can't state this enough.

Picture of Dolby's demo room. Why aren't the bookshelf speakers aiming straight down.

Here is a link to some other info in the video.
https://youtu.be/oXsmmRMcWLk

I bought the sa-10s before I found out about the RSL atmos speakers. I would buy those instead if I was buying atmos speakers today. Paradigms studio in ceiling speakers have great dispersion and project the sound very well so I will be surprised if they don’t sound great though. I was looking at the sa-10s the other night and the build quality is exceptional. No need to sell everyone here as everyone here likes paradigm including me.


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post #38260 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tidwelr1 View Post
Is the impact much less with a 9’ ceiling compared to 8’? My back speakers will be close to the back wall as it’s a small space. I read an easy way to determine the location for the front atmos speakers is to measure the distance bw your head when seated and the ceiling and put the fronts that distance from the back atmos speakers. So it would be 4-5 ft with an 8 ft ceiling. That seems about right to me.


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I don't think i would use the phrase impact that is what all the subs are for - immersive describes atmos better - it is all about where the sound is coming from while watching a movie with atmos - if i had a sprinkler system set up in my theater room that would rain down a little water on you while watching The legend of Tarzan in Atmos when it is raining in the jungle scene with Jane - you would swear you were right there in the rain and it sounds that impressive - the water would make it 4D - i may have to work on that



A 9' ceiling it is more optimal than 8' , my ceiling in my theater room is a little over 8'- living room a little of 9' - I feel like the timing is better and more immersive in the living room, so i believe it may be the fact there is a little more wiggle room or height to disperse out the sound down to your ears with straight down-firing speakers, i have to agree with the previous post explaining the benefit of an angled speaker esp with lower ceilings, i think the rear atmos speakers in my theater room will be fine but i am going to change out the front middle ones for angled ones paradigm CI Elite E80-A in lieu of the CI Elite E80-R's which fire straight down- If i like what this does i may change out the back atmos ones after that - more extra paradigm speakers

Even though i had my theater room custom calibrated for audio and video - and it sounds outstanding - there is always those fine tweaks and changes that can be accomplished after the fact. I put E7Elite in walls for side surrounds and they just don't get the use in many movies that you think - they would be better for a front or center channel that gets more attention or more of a work out - when they were the only speakers in the room during the build just to test them i hooked them up to an old receiver and alone they would rock the room out playing in stereo - although when they are called for for surround effects you know they are there for sure - a simpler cheaper in wall surround would probably perform just the same in most occasions. I was going to put the Paradigm 25S's there because i already have them - i just did not want them sticking out the side wall where someone could bump into them or they would be sitting on stands like i had i my living room.



I have four (4) paradigm AMS 450 in walls installed in the ceiling in my living room and they sounded fantastic with atmos - before i moved everything else down to the basement in the theater room - They are still installed in my ceiling in my living now going to waste. I would have to buy another 11+ channel processor or Receiver to fire them back up - and use spare paradigm speakers to fill out the room again, all the wiring is still running down to the basement from when i had everything connected to the living room
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post #38261 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tidwelr1 View Post
I bought the sa-10s before I found out about the RSL atmos speakers. I would buy those instead if I was buying atmos speakers today. Paradigms studio in ceiling speakers have great dispersion and project the sound very well so I will be surprised if they don’t sound great though. I was looking at the sa-10s the other night and the build quality is exceptional. No need to sell everyone here as everyone here likes paradigm including me.


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Install the SA-10's you have - as i just said in the previous post i used 4 Paradigm AMS 450's pretty much same as SA-30 Paradigms in my living room and the atmos was fantastic - (maybe the SA in walls had a little more dispersion than the Elite R80's of new have) - they are dormant right now basically ceiling ornaments with nothing to drive them with -

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post #38262 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 07:33 PM
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Thanks very much for the info guys, appreciate it. I think I will probably just buy 2 Persona Subs and I'll see what I do with my Sub 1 (put in the back or sell).

If you’ve got the budget for a couple of Persona subs, I recommend auditioning some JL Audio Fathom subs.
A pair of F113s would be in the same range as a pair of Persona subs. If you could swing it, a pair of F212s would be a further step up

Last year I upgraded from a Reference sub to a Fathom and it was a noticeable improvement for both HT and music.

I’m a big Paradigm fan but for subs there are other good options


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post #38263 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 08:33 PM
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I bought the sa-10s before I found out about the RSL atmos speakers. I would buy those instead if I was buying atmos speakers today. Paradigms studio in ceiling speakers have great dispersion and project the sound very well so I will be surprised if they don’t sound great though. I was looking at the sa-10s the other night and the build quality is exceptional. No need to sell everyone here as everyone here likes paradigm including me.
I think the SA-10s will be fine but you will want to change the placement to be closer to the seating instead of 45 degrees in front or behind of you. You can't change the off axis behavior of speakers. Even with some of the best dispersing speakers their highs will be rolled off at 45 degrees, just the physics of speaker design. Speakers with good off axis dispersion, their off axis graph looks similar to the on axis graph except with some roll off of the highs, this is normal. Speakers with poor off axis response will typically get some dips that aren't in the on axis graph.

I don't try to sell anyone anything on this forum like some others do. Here is what I like in system that I know works well. I like matched speakers, try to use speakers from the same series for seamless sound. EQ can't fix many problems. I like 3 way centers. I like manufacturers that have a number of different types of speakers in the same series. This helps solve problems in a variety of situations.

I wouldn't recommend RSL or any other brand if it didn't match the rest of the system. If you use RSL for your other speakers then I would recommend you stick with RSL. Speakers are about application and you do not want to use great speakers in an application they weren't designed. When one is looking at a speaker system they should look at what types of speakers will fit their needs and go with a brand that has models for those needs. Ideally we should use the same speaker model in all locations but that is just not practical in most homes. So we use in wall, in ceiling, angled speakers, bi-pole speakers, center speakers, etc. to get the best solution in a given room. Look for companies that have the models to fit your application and can have reasonable timbre match.

I do understand it is difficult to add to a system when a given series of speakers has been discontinued. I am guessing that is the case with your SA-10s is that your other speakers are part of the Studio series or other Paradigm series where the SA-10s might be the closest match.
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post #38264 of 38597 Old 05-07-2020, 09:19 PM
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Paradigm Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
I think the SA-10s will be fine but you will want to change the placement to be closer to the seating instead of 45 degrees in front or behind of you. You can't change the off axis behavior of speakers. Even with some of the best dispersing speakers their highs will be rolled off at 45 degrees, just the physics of speaker design. Speakers with good off axis dispersion, their off axis graph looks similar to the on axis graph except with some roll off of the highs, this is normal. Speakers with poor off axis response will typically get some dips that aren't in the on axis graph.

I don't try to sell anyone anything on this forum like some others do. Here is what I like in system that I know works well. I like matched speakers, try to use speakers from the same series for seamless sound. EQ can't fix many problems. I like 3 way centers. I like manufacturers that have a number of different types of speakers in the same series. This helps solve problems in a variety of situations.

I wouldn't recommend RSL or any other brand if it didn't match the rest of the system. If you use RSL for your other speakers then I would recommend you stick with RSL. Speakers are about application and you do not want to use great speakers in an application they weren't designed. When one is looking at a speaker system they should look at what types of speakers will fit their needs and go with a brand that has models for those needs. Ideally we should use the same speaker model in all locations but that is just not practical in most homes. So we use in wall, in ceiling, angled speakers, bi-pole speakers, center speakers, etc. to get the best solution in a given room. Look for companies that have the models to fit your application and can have reasonable timbre match.

I do understand it is difficult to add to a system when a given series of speakers has been discontinued. I am guessing that is the case with your SA-10s is that your other speakers are part of the Studio series or other Paradigm series where the SA-10s might be the closest match.

The room is small. 12.5x13.5. Better than nothing. It’s not a dedicated theatre but more of a media room for movies and gaming. The front stage is shown below. Studio 100s and the CC-690. HSU vtf3-mk5. Im using monitor audio silver RXFX surrounds in bi-pole mode in the rear and they’ve been fantastic since I bought them a couple of years ago. I tried monopole in-walls initially (paradigms) and the sound was very localized and didn’t create the bubble i was after. The MA bi-poles create the bubble in spades and never draw attention to themselves. For spaces where the seating is near the rear wall, I think bi-poles are the way to go and it’s not close. I think having a different brand for surrounds and atmos speakers is less of an issue than the front three from my experience. I did not want the ADPs from paradigm bc they are more of a dipole design. When I play music thru all speakers, the sound is extremely consistent all around. The MA speakers use an aluminum tweeter just like the paradigms so very similar design. BTW, the room isn’t done in terms of lighting, etc. it won’t be painted black though. It’s a multi purpose media room.



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post #38265 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 06:39 AM
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It looks like you made very good choices for your situation!
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Question..... I am looking to jump from 75F to 85F. (Room is not big enough for 95's) I see that Paradigm has a 25% off sale now. I know a dealer would discount a few percent on a normal sale, does anyone think they would discount an additional % on the Paradigm sale price. Don't know how sales are right now in the audio industry.
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post #38267 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 08:11 AM
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It looks like you made very good choices for your situation!

I think so. It’s a new space. We moved last year. Are you thinking I should put the front atmos speakers closer to the rears? Seems like there should be a certain amt of space bw the fronts and rears, but I’m not experienced with atmos. Trying to figure out what to do about lighting as well. I originally wanted a soffit, but I’m questioning that now bc the rear atmos speakers would be in the soffit. I could just do a soffit on the sides and the front though and I’m sort of leaning that direction.


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post #38268 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 09:03 AM
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Yes, I would put the front Atmos speakers closer to the seating if they are not angled speakers. I'm guessing by the size of your room, correct me if I am wrong that your seating is against the back wall? If so you might only want to do only 2 overhead speakers. If the seating is away from the back wall then use all 4 and keep their angles less than 30 degrees to the main listening position. Joist placement will somewhat dictate at exactly which degree. I'm also guessing your surround speakers had to be on the back wall instead of the side walls? Life is full of trade offs, we just want to make the least amount as possible:-)

It is difficult to convey to people that even great off axis speakers still have their highs rolled off at 45 degrees. If you watched the video and use a pair of headphones or listen through your system how muffled it sounds when he demonstrates with pink noise at 45 degrees. That section happens about 7 or 8 minutes into the video.
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post #38269 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 519audiofan View Post
If you’ve got the budget for a couple of Persona subs, I recommend auditioning some JL Audio Fathom subs.
A pair of F113s would be in the same range as a pair of Persona subs. If you could swing it, a pair of F212s would be a further step up

Last year I upgraded from a Reference sub to a Fathom and it was a noticeable improvement for both HT and music.

I’m a big Paradigm fan but for subs there are other good options


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Thanks for the info but after all my research I think I'm going with dual Funk Audio 18 or 21lx. Haven't made my mind up on that part yet. I have time since I'm just starting my new build and these will be purchased end of summer.

JVC DLA-RS1000, 120″ EluneVision Reference Studio AudioWeave 2.35:1 CinemaScope screen, Marantz AV8802a Pre/Pro, Anthem MCA 525 x3, Paradigm CI Elite E80-R ceiling speakers x2, Paradigm CI Elite E80-A ceiling speakers x4, Paradigm Prestige 95F, Paradigm Prestige 85F (wides), Paradigm Prestige 15B x4, Paradigm Prestige 55C, Paradigm Signature Sub 1, Panasonic UDP820 UHD player, OPPO 203 UHD player.
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post #38270 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 10:27 AM
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Side and Rear solutions for v5 front stage?

Hello,
I am looking to change my system from a 5.1 setup to a 7.1. My current LCR consists of studio 100 v5 and the CC690. I am using polk RT8 for my surrounds. My goal is to find some used v5 to complete the 7.1 set up. Currently there are some Esprit v4 for sale in the classifieds which appear to be the match to the v5. However, i have never heard these. Do any of you have experience with this speaker? Would it be a good addition to my front stage? I could then continue to look for used v5 for the side surrounds. I am thinking another set of 100s would be awesome for the sides or some 20s with stands? I would appreciate any recommendations from this forum.
Kind regards,
John
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post #38271 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 11:26 AM
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Hello,
I am looking to change my system from a 5.1 setup to a 7.1. My current LCR consists of studio 100 v5 and the CC690. I am using polk RT8 for my surrounds. My goal is to find some used v5 to complete the 7.1 set up. Currently there are some Esprit v4 for sale in the classifieds which appear to be the match to the v5. However, i have never heard these. Do any of you have experience with this speaker? Would it be a good addition to my front stage? I could then continue to look for used v5 for the side surrounds. I am thinking another set of 100s would be awesome for the sides or some 20s with stands? I would appreciate any recommendations from this forum.
Kind regards,
John
Hi John,

I have the exact same frontstage as you, Studio 100 V5's & cc690 center. The main thing is since you want 7.1, definitely get direct radiating surround speakers (same as your front speakers) to get that seperation between your 4 rear surround speakers. Yes, I think the Espirit V4's would be an ok match with your Studios, certainly a better match than the Polk RT8's. You do not need to really run towers for surrounds in any home theater application, so some good matching Paradigm bookshelf speakers is all you need. I have 4 Studio 20 V5's matched up with my V5 Studio 100 towers & cc690. The sound is absolutely amazing for both movies and multi channel music. The Studio 20's also have the exact same driver size as the CC690 & 100 Towers, so you cannot get a better match in any speaker system available out there. I have 2 of my Studio 20's (side surrounds) on very reasonably priced stands and the other 2 (rear surrounds) on a cabinet up almost against the back wall. The good thing about the Studios is they are front ported so they can be placed up against a wall much easier than most speakers, especially important if you have room restrictions, etc.

For best sound, I would recommend looking to see if you can find a good deal on (4) used Studio 20 V5's, as these would be the perfect match for your front 3 speakers and just get some inexpensive stands or an old cabinet like I did. Even (4) Studio 10's would sound great, as the Studio 10's would also work really well with your system and would be my 2nd choice. You could maybe sell your Polk's or use elsewhere...Again these are just suggestions, as do not know your exact goals and funds available.

Main Room: LG 65" OLED C9 / Panasonic UB820 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray / Yamaha RX-A3050 / Paradigm (V5) Studio 100 towers / Studio cc690 / (4) Studio 20's / SVS PB13 Ultra sub
Man Cave: Samsung 64" 8500 Series Plasma / Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Blu-ray / Denon AVRX3600 / Paradigm Prestige 75F & 55C / Energy eXL16B (rears) / (2) Adante M100 (heights) / SVS PB2000 sub

Last edited by 3DRODRAY; 05-09-2020 at 02:24 PM.
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post #38272 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DRODRAY View Post
Hi John,

I have the exact same frontstage as you, Studio 100 V5's & cc690 center. The main thing is since you want 7.1, definitely get direct radiating surround speakers (same as your front speakers) to get that seperation between your 4 rear surround speakers. Yes, I think the Espirit V4's would be an ok match with your Studios, certainly a better match than the Polk RT8's. You do not need to really run towers for surrounds in any home theater application, so some good matching Paradigm bookshelf speakers is all you need. I have 4 Studio 20 V5's matched up with my V5 Studio 100 towers & cc690. The sound is absolutely amazing for both movies and multi channel music. The Studio 20's also have the exact same driver size as the CC690 & 100 Towers, so you cannot get a better match in any speaker system available out there. I have 2 of my Studio 20's (side surrounds) on very reasonably priced stands and the other 2 (rear surrounds) on a cabinet up almost against the back wall. The good thing about the Studios is they are front ported so they can be placed up against a wall much easier than most speakers, especially important if you have room restrictions, etc.

For best sound, I would recommend looking to see if you can find a good deal on (4) used Studio 20 V5's, as these would be the perfect match for your front 3 speakers and just get some inexpensive stands or an old cabinet like I did. Even (4) Studio 10's would sound great, as the Studio 10's would also work really well with your system and would be my 2nd choice. You could maybe sell your Polk's or use elsewhere...Again these are just suggestions, as do not know you exact goals and funds available.
Thank you very much. I really appreciate the response.

My goals are to maximize sound quality using my existing front stage (I don't want to start from scratch). My budget is flexible given i am looking for used speakers. Not saying it is unlimited but i want it to be nice. My local dealer was recommending the prestige 25s x4 but i am not convinced that will achieve my goal. I have the paradigm stand for the CC690 and it ran me about $500 USD. As a result, i figured the cash outlay for used 20s and the J-29 stand would basically be the same as a pair of used 100s.

To confirm, i would not recognize a difference between 100s or 20s for the sides and rear sound given the cross over setting? If that is true then i guess the 4 20s should be my target purchase. In your experience do these come up for sale on the used market very often? I see three offerings currently for 10s two black and one rosenut. The rosenut ask is $950 without stands which seems high to me. I am not usually a used equipment guy but appreciate the need given my goal to match the v5's. Any additional thoughts or advice?
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post #38273 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by John LeClair View Post
Thank you very much. I really appreciate the response.

My goals are to maximize sound quality using my existing front stage (I don't want to start from scratch). My budget is flexible given i am looking for used speakers. Not saying it is unlimited but i want it to be nice. My local dealer was recommending the prestige 25s x4 but i am not convinced that will achieve my goal. I have the paradigm stand for the CC690 and it ran me about $500 USD. As a result, i figured the cash outlay for used 20s and the J-29 stand would basically be the same as a pair of used 100s.

To confirm, i would not recognize a difference between 100s or 20s for the sides and rear sound given the cross over setting? If that is true then i guess the 4 20s should be my target purchase. In your experience do these come up for sale on the used market very often? I see three offerings currently for 10s two black and one rosenut. The rosenut ask is $950 without stands which seems high to me. I am not usually a used equipment guy but appreciate the need given my goal to match the v5's. Any additional thoughts or advice?
No problem at all. By the way, great name John LeClair, especially if you are a hockey fan...

Since you already have the Studio V5 100 towers and cc690 center, I agree maximize your existing front stage with new rear speakers, especially when your existing front stage is so good and would be hard to beat for any home theater system. I would do the exact same thing if I were you. I have the newer Prestige system (75F's & 55C, + 15B's on order) in my man cave and absolutely love them, but would never get rid of my larger Studio V5's (100 towers, cc690 & 4 Studio 20's), as they absolutely rock for a home theater.

Using towers for rears in most home entertainment systems is really overkill and you would not really hear any difference between using high end bookshelf speakers for your rears. Even with a good sub, I think towers are better for mains, but not really for using as rear surrounds. With a good sub(s), you just need some good surrounds for the highs/mids and some lows until the sub crossover point takes over. I like my big 3 front speakers for both my systems set at 60Hz crossover, but like to have the bass/lows going for my 4 surrounds at 80Hz and heights at 90Hz. Having the crossover at 60Hz for your rears or all speakers you are missing the sub getting any lows until 60Hz, and a good sub lows sounds better than any tower speaker lows. However many Paradigm towers are very efficient, so no loss using them, just really not much gain. Keep in mind many towers to hear that they could actually sound better need some amp power sent to them and many AVR's or rear channel sound is not enough to notice any difference.

If you like listening to multi channel music all the time and have powerful external amps, 2 more Studio 100 V5 towers would be hard to beat, as they would "match perfectly" with your mains and due to all being true 3 way speakers, the sound should be fuller and have more depth than any bookshelf's, but again not really needed. Considering all this, if you found some really good Studio 60's for a great price, and have a room big enough, I would not turn this option either to use as rears. Although it is most important to match your front stage, to maximize your sound which you want to do, I would do my best to find some rears (any Studio V5's or even V4's) to match your fronts while you still can and used speakers are still available. I believe the V4 & V5's are very close and hard to tell any difference (as the V4's use the same G-PAL & S-PAL technology). Maybe someone else can comment further on this...

I'm not usually big on surround type rear speakers (Bipole & Dipole), as I have always liked Monopole (traditional direct firing) speakers. I must say, the 25S do look amazing for a surround speaker as they are a true 3 way (in fact they have 2 mid range drivers and 2 tweeters each), so should sound fantastic. The other bonus is they can be run in dual mode I believe (run each speaker as 2 speakers, otherwards get 7.1 with only 2 rear speakers). I do like how these would really fill the room with sound but I think these surround type speakers are only for 5.1 audio and not 7.1 or Dolby Atmos where you need sound to move from speaker to speaker. You would have that traditional Paradigm sound and the 25S would match ok but definitely not be a perfect match for the Studios as the Prestige has all X-PAL drivers and the Studio V5 has G-PAL tweeters & S-PAL mid/bass drivers. The less expensive version of the 25S that would work ok for rear surrounds, but only in a 5.1 system are Paradigm Surrround 3's, which are also on sale.

I'm a big fan of Paradigm and love their speakers but find their subs are a bit overpriced (I'm always on a budget when upgrading), and definitely think their stands are way overpriced. I used to have my cc690 on some cheap $20 stands with a board fastened on top which worked well. Since the massive cc690 does not fit into many TV stands, I now have my cc690 on top of my TV stand with my TV wall mounted with full motion tilting mount) which I think works the best for sound, picture and looks. I have 2 of my Studio 20's on Sanus stands that look great and are very sturdy (can fill each tube w/sand) and cost easily under $100 if I recall.

Yes, for 7.1 or more, I definitely recommend looking for some Studio 20's for rear surrounds and second choice being Studio 10's. Also my first choice would be V5's, but V4's should work as well? I was lucky to order my 2nd pair of Studio 20 V5's before they were discontinued. I have not bought many used audio equipment or speakers, so cannot advise on costs. Not sure where you are, but here are some options (including a pair of Studio 10 V5's for CAD $800). Keep in mind, many private sellers will lower their price: https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/sear...aradigm+studio

ebay.ca Here's another pair of Studio 10 V5's for CAD $769 or US $552 & "new" Studio 60 towers:
https://www.ebay.ca/b/Paradigm-Studi.../bn_7023370557

ebay.com Another pair of Studio 60 V5 towers brand new for US $900, or Studio 10 V5's for US $700 in black or US $797 in cherry colour: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...TUDIO&_sacat=0
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Main Room: LG 65" OLED C9 / Panasonic UB820 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray / Yamaha RX-A3050 / Paradigm (V5) Studio 100 towers / Studio cc690 / (4) Studio 20's / SVS PB13 Ultra sub
Man Cave: Samsung 64" 8500 Series Plasma / Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Blu-ray / Denon AVRX3600 / Paradigm Prestige 75F & 55C / Energy eXL16B (rears) / (2) Adante M100 (heights) / SVS PB2000 sub

Last edited by 3DRODRAY; 05-09-2020 at 07:42 PM.
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post #38274 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GMCAD View Post
Question..... I am looking to jump from 75F to 85F. (Room is not big enough for 95's) I see that Paradigm has a 25% off sale now. I know a dealer would discount a few percent on a normal sale, does anyone think they would discount an additional % on the Paradigm sale price. Don't know how sales are right now in the audio industry.
I don't think most dealers will offer more than Paradigm's 20-25% off sale, as these sales do cut into their profit margins, I believe. Unless you have maybe bought multiple stuff off them, know the owner of the store well or any other special circumstances, probably not, but never hurts to ask.

Why do you want to upgrade your 75F's to the 85F's? The 75F drivers perfectly match the 55C or the 45C and also the 15B's and sound unbelievable together. 85F's are also only a 2.5 way, so you are not even upgrading to a 3 way? What center are you using and are you mainly music and not movies? Do you have a really good sub, as the 75's should sound as good as the 85F's with a good sub, and you will probably not notice any difference, especially for movies. For music you will notice a difference but with a good sub, probably not, but this is maybe debatable. The cost to change from your used 75F's to new 85F's would certainly be expensive and I don't think worthwhile unless you don't want to use a sub and listen to music only?

Here is a review on the 75F's showing some shocking results compared to the 95F and 85F's. "The 95F & 85F have narrower midrange dispersion and a rougher transition to the tweeter. The math is the math and the dispersion/power response at the crossover—all three models cross over at 2.0kHz—gets markedly worse as you go up to the larger models. Oh well".
https://www.audioholics.com/tower-sp...-system-review

Main Room: LG 65" OLED C9 / Panasonic UB820 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray / Yamaha RX-A3050 / Paradigm (V5) Studio 100 towers / Studio cc690 / (4) Studio 20's / SVS PB13 Ultra sub
Man Cave: Samsung 64" 8500 Series Plasma / Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Blu-ray / Denon AVRX3600 / Paradigm Prestige 75F & 55C / Energy eXL16B (rears) / (2) Adante M100 (heights) / SVS PB2000 sub
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post #38275 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 08:57 PM
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Officially became a Paradigm owner today. It will be awhile before I can actually listen to them, maybe a few months. I’m waiting for the amps and some finishing touches on the room.

The Elite-E7 LCRs are pretty impressive as far as in walls go. Separately sealed chambers for top and bottom 8” woofers, metal frame.




Lakeview Cinema build thread
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post #38276 of 38597 Old 05-09-2020, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sor View Post
Officially became a Paradigm owner today. It will be awhile before I can actually listen to them, maybe a few months. I’m waiting for the amps and some finishing touches on the room.

The Elite-E7 LCRs are pretty impressive as far as in walls go. Separately sealed chambers for top and bottom 8” woofers, metal frame.

Nice! Welcome to the family. Look forward to a future report of how it all comes together and sounds!
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7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #38277 of 38597 Old 05-11-2020, 08:14 AM
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Hello,

If anyone does take advantage of the Prestige sale and upgrades from 45c to a 55c, let me know if you're interested in selling your 45c (glossy black). If the price is right, I'd probably buy it.

I've had my 75f's for about 2 months now, and I really happy with them over my B&W. I can really tell a difference in audio quality from MP3, CD, 24/192, and DSD. I've been re-ripping my cd collection to lossless files now that I can really hear a difference. 500 down, about 500 more to go.

My last add to the system will be a streaming/dac, perhaps something like the Cambridge Audio CXN v2. But there are so many out there, all at different prices, that I'm taking my time to decide, and perhaps a newly upgraded/updated model will be released. Anyone out there have this CXN v2 and can let me know what you think of it?
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post #38278 of 38597 Old 05-12-2020, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
Officially became a Paradigm owner today. It will be awhile before I can actually listen to them, maybe a few months. I’m waiting for the amps and some finishing touches on the room.

The Elite-E7 LCRs are pretty impressive as far as in walls go. Separately sealed chambers for top and bottom 8” woofers, metal frame.

]
I have got to know what your impressions are of the E7's! Those things look amazing!!
Congrats on the purchase...you've got some really good stuff there!!
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Music Room 5.1.2: L/R Paradigm Prestige 85F, Prestige CC55, CI Elite E80-A (Atmos), CI Elite E65-R, HSU VTF-15H MK2 sub, Onkyo TXNR-838, Emotiva XPA3 Gen2.
Samsung 65" JS9500 and Sony UBP-X800
Room: 13' X 11'6" X 14' Fairly new audioholic
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post #38279 of 38597 Old 05-12-2020, 09:01 AM
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I have got to know what your impressions are of the E7's! Those things look amazing!!
Congrats on the purchase...you've got some really good stuff there!!

Thanks... I’m dying to listen to them, waiting on amps and some room stuff.

Lakeview Cinema build thread
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post #38280 of 38597 Old 05-12-2020, 12:31 PM
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Question

I'm about to upgrade my 7.1 setup to 7.1.4, and I'm not sure which of Paradigm's current in-ceiling speakers would best match my older Monitors.

After having poked around on Paradigm's site and done a bit of research, I'm leaning towards the CI Pro P65-R, but thought I'd best check what you fine folks might have to say first.

This is what I've currently got:

Fronts: Monitor 11 v6
Centre: Monitor CC-390 v6
All four surrounds: Monitor Surround 3 v7
Subwoofer: SVS PB-1000 (thinking about possibly getting a second one, but currently prioritising the ceiling speakers)

The room is 10.5' x 13' and has 8' ceilings, the screen is mounted on one of the 10.5' walls, and the single seat (yes, you read that right) is currently positioned about 9' from the screen. The seating position is flexible.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Any insights would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

edit: A while back I put together a small PDF with the specs of my speakers. I've attached it here, should anyone be interested.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Paradigm-Monitor-v6_v7-Datasheet.pdf (305.3 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by Astrakan; 05-12-2020 at 12:37 PM. Reason: added spec sheet
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