Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 1278 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #38311 of 38557 Old 05-16-2020, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DRODRAY View Post
Hey John, did you end up buying some used Studio 20 V5's?

For over 6 years, I have also wanted to add some Dolby Atmos height speakers to my main home entertainment room which has the Studio speakers, but for various reasons I still haven't. One of the main reasons is I have 2 systems and recently, I have been upgrading my other room (man cave) with Prestige speakers (75F's & 55C). I have 5.1.2 in my man cave, so I have been at least enjoying some height speakers there. I just ordered a pair of 15B's for the rear surrounds, as I wanted a fully matched Paradigm system also in my man cave and was concerned the Prestige series could be discontinued soon.

In my main room I am still only running 7.1 with the same speakers as you (all V5), Studio 100's, Studio cc690 center & 4 Studio 20's. I was very fortunate to get my last pair of Studio 20's (& even in same finish) very shortly after the Studio series were discontinued, as I was running only 5.1 before this. Since my 7 Studio V5 speakers all match so perfectly, I have always been worried about adding any height speakers and possibly ruining this perfect match that I have now. The ceiling speakers Paradigm designed to match our Studio's are the SA10R & SA15R. They sonically match the Studio's, also using G-PAL tweeters and S-PAL mid/bass drivers, but do not have the ferro-fluid damped / cooled high frequency drivers. I would have liked to see Paradigm offer the exact same ferro-fluid tech for the best possible match. Years ago before the Studio & SA ceiling speakers were discontinued, I asked Paradigm if they could offer any SA ceiling speakers with an "aimable tweeter" (w/adjustable angle) that would solve many home users problems when mounting them for Dolby Atmos use.
https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceiling-speakers/sa-10r
https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceiling-speakers/sa-15r

As you will note, the prices for the SA ceiling speakers were quite expensive, especially if you needed 4, but really does not matter since these were discontinued years ago. Also, anyone who bought these would not be selling now, as most ceiling speakers would be installed and not for sale. Paradigm will now advise you the closest sonic match they have for ceiling speakers to the Studios are their CI Elite series (E80-A, E80-R, E-65R). However, these are actually made to match the newer Prestige series, so would not be the very best match for our Studio V5's. Side Note: I wonder how wide the dispersion level is for the CI Pro P80-SM, as it has 2 tweeters, but not sure if good for Dolby Atmos (maybe worth asking Paradigm...)
https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceiling-speakers

For many years, I wonder why Paradigm have still not embraced Dolby Atmos? I really like Paradigm speakers, and think their centers are a cut above the others, and they make great matching complete speaker systems, but have never had perfect matching height speakers to complete your system. Also why do they spend so much effort on their rear surrounds (Prestige 25S, Surround 1 & 3, ADP's, etc), when even they admit these types of (non direct firing) speakers are not good for Dolby Atmos (object based). I think Paradigm's surrounds are great for 5.1 and make total sense wrapping you with surround sound. Speaking about the Prestige series, Paradigm should have offered 2 bookshelf speakers (15B + a bigger 25B with 6.5" drivers) like they did with the Studio's (20's & 10's), and the Premier (100B & 200B). Since I am on a "bit of rant", I believe Paradigm also should have made the 85F/95F 3 way speakers and also offered a bigger 65C center (with 6.5" mid/low drivers), so the Prestige series would be able match the size of the larger Studio V5 100's, CC690 & Studio 20's.

Back to the Atmos speakers. Actually I think Paradigm really should have made some Studio & Prestige "satellite" speakers that are a bit smaller than the 15B & Studio 10. Ideally, these never made Studio/Prestige satellite speakers would be front ported or sealed, about 7-10lbs max, have a mounting hole on the back and an optional adjustable mount, for both walls & ceilings. Although ceiling speakers are ideal for that clean discreet look, they are a lot of work to cut holes in the ceiling, etc and do not always work in every situation. A Paradigm satellite speaker with adjustable mounts would give so many options to be able to mount speakers on top of the walls or on a ceiling, even if you have vaulted ceilings & exposed beams. Being able to mount speakers so tweeters angle towards the MLP no matter what your situation is a real bonus. Other positives are not having to cut holes in your ceiling (not possible or maybe you are a renter, etc) and being able to take your high end matching speakers with you if you move is a good option to have. Installing ceiling speakers can be difficult for many owners and any custom installs can really add to the overall cost.

Furthermore, a good boxed speaker will usually always sound better than a ceiling speaker, and a large satellite speaker would match the Paradigm's center/towers & bookshelf speaker better than a ceiling speaker can. Due to this, why has Paradigm not made matching satellite speakers with optional adjustable mounts that would solve problems some people have and these could also be marketed as Dolby Atmos height speakers. I would buy these speakers if Paradigm offered them. I have suggested this to Paradigm before...Here is an example of a satellite speaker mounted on the ceiling (just scroll down to Newbie789): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...s-exposed.html

Since Paradigm does not have any matching Dolby Atmos height speakers for the Studios, I have finally kinda given up trying to match them. I had a pair of (30 year old I think) Adante M100 satellite speakers (w/adjustable mounts) laying around, so I've been using these in my man cave as height speakers combined with my Prestige speakers and have been quite surprised on the sound of these small speakers. Actually they also blend ok with my Prestige speakers, as I think the higher end AVR's room calibration systems do such a good job nowadays matching your speakers. I think matching your front stage is so important and also think it is best to match your 5-7 floor level speakers also. However, I do not think it is quite as important to match your height speakers, although I would have liked to also using Paradigm speakers.

Since I have some new Prestige 15B's coming for my man cave to use for rears, my current rears I'm using (Energy eXL16B's) will now hopefully move up to my main room as heights so I can at least have 7.1.2. These bookshelf's are maybe just over 11lbs, so I will need heavier adjustable mounts as most are made for speakers under 10lbs. If these Energy's sound good with my Studio's using as heights, I will let you know the results. Who knows, maybe one day I will move them back down to the man cave and use as heights with my Prestige (should be better than the smaller Adante's) and then get 4 matching height speakers for my main room to go with the Studio's. If I do ever decide to get new height speakers for my main room to go with the Studio's, my 1st option since Paradigm does not have any, and I have long considered are the SVS Prime Elevation speakers, as these look like they are so versatile and would work well.

Other Paradigm owners, if you toughed it out made it through this thread, please let us know your comments, rants or just give this post a like...lol
3DRODRAY,
Well i thought I as in process of buying a set of Studio 20s via the classified section within this website. However, i fell victim to fraud and have lost money in the process. I feel stupid, embarrassed and naive. As i mentioned, i am not well versed in buying used equipment and this was my first attempt at cyber shopping outside of Amazon or some other internet base "store." It has been a bitter and expensive lesson to learn. I wish there was some action that i could take to rectify this, but it appears that they got me. Ugh!

The experience has taken the wind out of my sails and feel like i will not be able to achieve my goal of upgrading the Studio front stage.

Discouraged,
John
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post #38312 of 38557 Old 05-16-2020, 01:32 PM
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Some questions you asked. Dolby does mentioning aiming the speakers in the their documents they provide to professionals. why they don't on their website i have no idea.

I don't have Studio 10's and never have actually owned them.

the Dolby demo room was for AES (Audio Engineering Society) show. They used Revel speakers. I had nothing to do with setting that room up.

The next post I will detail my own system.
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post #38313 of 38557 Old 05-16-2020, 02:07 PM
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I have two theater rooms in my basement. One for my sons and one for me. The bigger one (mine) is in a state of flux at the moment. My older son is getting serious with girlfriend and I might convert to bedroom/bathroom for them until he finished college. It is a 22x12x7 and was going to be P3's up front, with wall angled for toe in and will wire for wides in case I get a processor that can do wides. Surround 3 for the surrounds between the two rows (I'd like to do surrounds for each row but that means a more expensive processor), P1s for the back, and 4 P80-A for overheads. It would have two X-15 subs. I had this room previously set up with AMS series and had already bought some of the equipment to upgrade and sole the AMS speakers. There is 130" curved 2.37:1 Seymour AT screen with Epson LS10000 with Panamorph anamorphic lens. I was using MRX-1120. I've got the room down to studs and going to sound proof the room but now the room is in limbo until I decide what do do with it.

My second HT room was a basic 5.1 system with Milleniaone speakers and Millenia sub with and MRX-520. It is one rown and a small room of 15x10x7. That has been upgraded while the other room is in limbo. I still use three MilleniaOne speakers for the front and might use the other two for wides if possible. The sides got changed to Surround 3s that i alread had and the backs went to the P1s. It also got the P80-A for overhead. I hadn't bought the X-15 subs yet so moved the MilleniaOne sub upstairs and use two Monitor 12 subs down there from the AMS system. The MRX-1120 is now there and 520 was sold. The 130" is too big for this room so there is a Stewart Cima 115" 2.35:1 screen there. The Epson LS10000 got moved there and is now using the zoom method without the curved screen. I also have acoustic treatments there. So yes this room is not perfect and I could possibly change the Milleniaone to the Premier 100 to better match. Although the Milenniaone is not as dynamic they definitely are more accurate and better off axis.

Upstairs I have a pair of Shift A2 now with the Millenione Sub in the family room which is where much or our general TV viewing is done. I use this room to test a LOT of sound bars. I have yet to find a sound bar that I like better than the A2 with sub. In my office I have a pair of Prestige 15B. Other speakers I have that tend to get rotated between the various stereo systems are JBL308, Cerwin Vega for get model # but usually gets set up outside with projector for outside movie night, Genelec 8341, G4, G1 with F1 sub. I have access to Monitor Audio, Kef, Episode, Jamo, Klipsch as well as many pro brands. Each brand had its pros and cons. I would love to do an all active system but it is just not practical.
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post #38314 of 38557 Old 05-16-2020, 04:00 PM
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Paradigm Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John LeClair View Post
3DRODRAY,
Well i thought I as in process of buying a set of Studio 20s via the classified section within this website. However, i fell victim to fraud and have lost money in the process. I feel stupid, embarrassed and naive. As i mentioned, i am not well versed in buying used equipment and this was my first attempt at cyber shopping outside of Amazon or some other internet base "store." It has been a bitter and expensive lesson to learn. I wish there was some action that i could take to rectify this, but it appears that they got me. Ugh!

The experience has taken the wind out of my sails and feel like i will not be able to achieve my goal of upgrading the Studio front stage.

Discouraged,
John

Man, that sucks. Did you use pay pal so you can file a fraud claim? You said it was a classified ad? Did they post fake pics, etc. Just wondering as a cautionary tale for the rest of us.


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Last edited by tidwelr1; 05-16-2020 at 08:47 PM.
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post #38315 of 38557 Old 05-16-2020, 05:34 PM
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Spoiler!
Interesting that you are looking at the Defiance subs. Is there any particular reason you want those, since they are easily out-performed by ID sub makers? With your Anthem processing, you wouldn't need the ARC PBK. Sounds like you have three VERY nice systems!
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post #38316 of 38557 Old 05-16-2020, 09:23 PM
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A couple reasons. At my price the ID don't outperform them but I understand not everyone has that advantage but even at retail they are not far off. I don't use output as my only criteria. I had a pair of SVS Ultra and they were not as tight or clean as other subs so I sold them. They did play loud and low! I've used a lot of other ID subs as well. As far as ID goes I do like a lot of the features of SVS. The parametric EQ and adjustable slope. The fact that it has line level output is very nice if using in some stereo systems. The X-15 doesn't have that. The X-15 is no slouch, we just had a customer try the PB-4000 and X-15 and they returned the PB-4000. I think Paradigm upped their game with the Defiance series. It might not be the best bang (or boom) for the buck but they offer good features and EQ for not much more at retail, with a little discount they are competitive.

If I was going to spend more I do like the Seaton subs and don't think the Prestige subs are worth the extra. I like that the Defiance X series subs come with a real calibrated mic. Phone mics can be very inaccurate. In general Apple does a little better than the Android but a real calibrated mic especially for low frequencies where many inaccuracies occur is a nice bonus. PBK is for the older subs. The newer ones use ARC Genesis and I would recommend people use ARC Genesis even if their receiver or processor has it as well. By using ARC in the sub it will also set protection that won't happen if using the processor alone. I also think ARC is much easier to use for the average person which can be a big factor for some. Use its quick measure feature and find the best location for sub(s) and seating. If someone has more experience and uses measurement equipment like REW than some others might be a better choice. Remember many of these room EQ in processors don't help you find good locations for subs and seating. That's a very powerful feature.

There are a lot of good choices for subs out there!
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post #38317 of 38557 Old 05-16-2020, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John LeClair View Post
3DRODRAY,
Well i thought I as in process of buying a set of Studio 20s via the classified section within this website. However, i fell victim to fraud and have lost money in the process. I feel stupid, embarrassed and naive. As i mentioned, i am not well versed in buying used equipment and this was my first attempt at cyber shopping outside of Amazon or some other internet base "store." It has been a bitter and expensive lesson to learn. I wish there was some action that i could take to rectify this, but it appears that they got me. Ugh!

The experience has taken the wind out of my sails and feel like i will not be able to achieve my goal of upgrading the Studio front stage.

Discouraged,
John
Damn, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I agree with tidweir1, hopefully you used paypal? Can you tell us anymore what happened as noticed you mentioned this was a maybe classified add on this website AVSForum? Man, I would also be so discouraged as we spend a lot of time thinking and dreaming about upgrading our systems, with many of us having limited funds to do this...

Main Room: LG 65" OLED C9 / Panasonic UB820 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray / Yamaha RX-A3050 / Paradigm (V5) Studio 100 towers / Studio cc690 / (4) Studio 20's / SVS PB13 Ultra sub
Man Cave: Samsung 64" 8500 Series Plasma / Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Blu-ray / Denon AVRX3600 / Paradigm Prestige 75F & 55C / Energy eXL16B (rears) / (2) Adante M100 (heights) / SVS PB2000 sub
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post #38318 of 38557 Old 05-17-2020, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
A couple reasons. At my price the ID don't outperform them but I understand not everyone has that advantage but even at retail they are not far off. I don't use output as my only criteria. I had a pair of SVS Ultra and they were not as tight or clean as other subs so I sold them. They did play loud and low! I've used a lot of other ID subs as well. As far as ID goes I do like a lot of the features of SVS. The parametric EQ and adjustable slope. The fact that it has line level output is very nice if using in some stereo systems. The X-15 doesn't have that. The X-15 is no slouch, we just had a customer try the PB-4000 and X-15 and they returned the PB-4000. I think Paradigm upped their game with the Defiance series. It might not be the best bang (or boom) for the buck but they offer good features and EQ for not much more at retail, with a little discount they are competitive.

If I was going to spend more I do like the Seaton subs and don't think the Prestige subs are worth the extra. I like that the Defiance X series subs come with a real calibrated mic. Phone mics can be very inaccurate. In general Apple does a little better than the Android but a real calibrated mic especially for low frequencies where many inaccuracies occur is a nice bonus. PBK is for the older subs. The newer ones use ARC Genesis and I would recommend people use ARC Genesis even if their receiver or processor has it as well. By using ARC in the sub it will also set protection that won't happen if using the processor alone. I also think ARC is much easier to use for the average person which can be a big factor for some. Use its quick measure feature and find the best location for sub(s) and seating. If someone has more experience and uses measurement equipment like REW than some others might be a better choice. Remember many of these room EQ in processors don't help you find good locations for subs and seating. That's a very powerful feature.

There are a lot of good choices for subs out there!
I have said it before, and I will say it again - Paradigm is probably the best "consumer" speaker company that really takes subwoofers to heart. They make very good, very well-performing, very beautiful subs. They don't, however, make them affordable; at least compared to SVS, Rhythmik, and Hsu. Sub-first companies (PSA, JTR, etc) do much better on the cost/performance ratio.
For MY purposes, I don't need ARC with my sub - I have an Anthem AVR already, and will be using an external amp with DSP for a Mini-Marty sub.
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post #38319 of 38557 Old 05-17-2020, 08:30 PM
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Hello Paradigm owners. I want to upgrade my speakers. They are 19 years old and not very good quality. Here are some info about what I have. My room is 14 feet by 13 feet but not fully closed. I listen to movies/ TV series (70 %) and music on vinyl (30 %). I have a Thorens TD 166, my AV receiver is a Yamaha RX-A1060 Adventage and my subwoofer is a Paradigm Monitor 7 (sub 8). Since I live in Canada and do mostly movies, I'm really leaning toward the Paradigm Prestige line. I have a dealer close by and I can go for demo. However, I want to have your input since you have nothing to sell. First of all, with the size of my room, should I go with Paradigm 75 or 85, or just the bookshelf speaker. For rear speakers, should I go for the 15 or the 25s ? And for Centre, should i go with 45 or 55? The prestige line is 20 % off right now so it seems a good time to make a move. Finally, I need better cables but I don't want to spend more than the speakers on cables. What do you suggest ? In Canada, Bis Audio seems pretty good for cables but maybe I don't need higher end cables. Any input will be appreciated.
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post #38320 of 38557 Old 05-17-2020, 09:27 PM
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Hi Benoit, welcome to the forum. I have an 85F/55C/15B setup. I prefer the 15Bs for surrounds as I prefer a monopole and the 25S wouldn't suit my room constraints.
I sit no more than 10 feet from my speakers and they are outstanding for movies and music.
Since you have a pretty decent TT I would suggest the 85F, which is, IMHO, the sweet-spot for the series. If you have the room for the 55C, then get it - you won't be disappointed (and you won't be thinking "What if?").
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post #38321 of 38557 Old 05-18-2020, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Benoit Doyon-Gosselin View Post
Hello Paradigm owners. I want to upgrade my speakers. They are 19 years old and not very good quality. Here are some info about what I have. My room is 14 feet by 13 feet but not fully closed. I listen to movies/ TV series (70 %) and music on vinyl (30 %). I have a Thorens TD 166, my AV receiver is a Yamaha RX-A1060 Adventage and my subwoofer is a Paradigm Monitor 7 (sub 8). Since I live in Canada and do mostly movies, I'm really leaning toward the Paradigm Prestige line. I have a dealer close by and I can go for demo. However, I want to have your input since you have nothing to sell. First of all, with the size of my room, should I go with Paradigm 75 or 85, or just the bookshelf speaker. For rear speakers, should I go for the 15 or the 25s ? And for Centre, should i go with 45 or 55? The prestige line is 20 % off right now so it seems a good time to make a move. Finally, I need better cables but I don't want to spend more than the speakers on cables. What do you suggest ? In Canada, Bis Audio seems pretty good for cables but maybe I don't need higher end cables. Any input will be appreciated.
I don't own Paradigm but have heard the Prestige series multiple times. Your 30% music listening is likely to increase with great speakers like the 85F's because it will sound so clear and detailed. In an HT based setup, the sub(s) & center are key pieces so I'd definitely go with the 55F if you have room to accommodate it. I also recommend a bigger sub (dual subs would be even better) to an SVS PB-3000 or Paradigm defiance X15. Unless you have multiple rows of seating the 15b (you could go with Premiere 100/200B for this application) would be my choice.
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post #38322 of 38557 Old 05-18-2020, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Benoit Doyon-Gosselin View Post
First of all, with the size of my room, should I go with Paradigm 75 or 85, or just the bookshelf speaker. For rear speakers, should I go for the 15 or the 25s ? And for Centre, should i go with 45 or 55? The prestige line is 20 % off right now so it seems a good time to make a move. Finally, I need better cables but I don't want to spend more than the speakers on cables. What do you suggest ? In Canada, Bis Audio seems pretty good for cables but maybe I don't need higher end cables. Any input will be appreciated.
I've got a 13' x 16' room, also not enclosed, so similar to yours. The 75F would be fine with adequate subwooferage, but given the prices I'd recommend the 85F. As sigpig already pointed out, this is considered the sweetspot in the lineup, and it's what I went with with zero regrets. I thought maybe they be a bit (visually) overwhelming in my space originally, but not at all. It's a great fit. Same thing with the center - 55C if you can do it. The 45C is a good speaker, but the 55C is just more robust. Hits hard when it needs to, digs a bit deeper. Both have very good voice clarity.

As for 15B vs. 25B - note that the 25S only comes in two finishes, satin black or white - nothing that matches the available finishes on the other Prestige speakers. I guess they figure you're not really looking at surround speakers all the time, and that'd be their only duty. But something for you to consider. The other consideration would be your proximity to the speaker. If you're going to be really close range, the 25S might be a good choice as any monopole design might be more easily localized, depending on your distance and content. Would be great, though maybe challenging, to demo both at a similar distance to what they'd be like in your room so you could get a feel for this, it'll be a bit of a personal preference too I think.

Cables? You don't need high-end cables. You just need decent quality OFC wire with solid terminations. USA-based, so not sure how that affects pricing/import fees for you, but have a look at the offerings from Blue Jeans Cable. Good stuff for reasonable (USA anyway) prices. You can specify lengths, gauge, and the type of terminations you want, and they'll do that part for you if you wish, so you don't worry about anything. Or, just buy your own cable and terminations from Amazon, and build yourself. Do NOT spend a fortune on this. The basic BIS cables look fine, but no idea of the costs since they don't actually sell and leave it up to the dealer to price them.

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
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Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
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2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #38323 of 38557 Old 05-18-2020, 12:04 PM
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I intend to display my speakers. I don’t have the space cut out for the E7 yet but I have the columns ready. I’m going to have to be vigilant about making sure people don’t touch them, and I can always slap the grille on if I have to.
]
Absolutely gorgeous! Perfect wrapping worthy of the Elite Series for sure.
Very nice and well done

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post #38324 of 38557 Old 05-18-2020, 01:34 PM
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Yes i would love to elaborate so that others may avoid falling into the trap. It appears that there is a rampant problem with fraud in the AVS classified section. Here was my scenario:

I posted a WTB Paradigm Stuido v5 thread in the classified section.
I received a PM indicating a "friend" of this guy had some for sale and to contact him at an email address which i did.
I proceeded in dialogue with the "friend" who provided pictures of Studio 20s in Rosenut with the matching J29 stands (my exact need).
We agreed on a price and i proceeded to send this thief money to a Zelle account.
A day later the thief said he went to ship the speakers to me but could not because of Covid19.
A few days passed and i replied that since he would not be able to ship the speakers that he should return the money to my Zelle account. This email went without response.
I then went to Zelle to make the request that money be returned to my Zelle account and the thief had unregistered the Zelle account.
The scam was complete.

I have learned a lot from this experience and take full responsibility for my mistakes. My concern is that i reviewed the classified section on AVS forum and this appears to be a recurring problem. However, it does not appear that the administrators have taken appropriate preventive action to reduce or eliminate this from occurring in the future.

Sadly, i think i will not be the last to fall victim to this crime on the AVS classified site. For example, i have received multiple PMs since the original with the same message theme "i have a friend willing to sell." Try it for yourselves if you are interested. I bet if you start a WTB thread you will receive a similar PM shortly after posting......from a person that has a friend looking to sell what you are looking to buy.

Lesson learned.
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post #38325 of 38557 Old 05-18-2020, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by John LeClair View Post
snip
In the future, I would suggest you use PayPal. I have had success with a fraudulent transaction through them. Another thing is to see if your bank has any fraud-protection insurance. I had my bank account nearly emptied when I was vacationing in Florida a few years ago. The bank replaced the money because of the fraud.
Banks have a little more "oomph" with companies like PayPal and Zelle, since they (might) have the power to de-list them. Believe it or not, an email account can be traced, and banks usually have VERY good investigators to find those who owe them money...
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post #38326 of 38557 Old 05-18-2020, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Benoit Doyon-Gosselin View Post
Hello Paradigm owners. I want to upgrade my speakers. They are 19 years old and not very good quality. Here are some info about what I have. My room is 14 feet by 13 feet but not fully closed. I listen to movies/ TV series (70 %) and music on vinyl (30 %). I have a Thorens TD 166, my AV receiver is a Yamaha RX-A1060 Adventage and my subwoofer is a Paradigm Monitor 7 (sub 😎. Since I live in Canada and do mostly movies, I'm really leaning toward the Paradigm Prestige line. I have a dealer close by and I can go for demo. However, I want to have your input since you have nothing to sell. First of all, with the size of my room, should I go with Paradigm 75 or 85, or just the bookshelf speaker. For rear speakers, should I go for the 15 or the 25s ? And for Centre, should i go with 45 or 55? The prestige line is 20 % off right now so it seems a good time to make a move. Finally, I need better cables but I don't want to spend more than the speakers on cables. What do you suggest ? In Canada, Bis Audio seems pretty good for cables but maybe I don't need higher end cables. Any input will be appreciated.
HI! The first question is what is your budget? A lot depends on it. I have 85f on a small room like yours so here's my suggestions:

Bookshelf or floor loudspeakers :

Your choice. I prefer floorstanding, width stage is bigger according to me, better with movies. 15 B are more linear too(according reviews) , less punchy than 75f, which emphasize bass and highs.

Front speakers :75 f are sufficient if you intend to buy subs.you will cut 75f at 80hz (with your Ypao room correction) and let subs do the job Your room is small, more bass more reflections.

Center:if you can afford it, 55 all the way!i jumped from small Monitor 7v7 center to prestige 55,dialogues are much more clearer

Subwoofers: small room, you don't need big subs. You need two good "small" subs, to fill room without holes.
Get another sub 8 sub!
If you want to upgrade subs and
If you like to feel infrabass through your body, svs subs are great. Two svs pb3000 are sufficient to shake your room and you can try them 30 days!
If you like precise bass(specially for music), Paradigm defiance subs are better. Not deeper as svs ones but clinical bass.Their event is under the sub, less Interaction with walls, precise bass. Most of all, they have the best automatic room correction existing, ARC, usable on app, to nullify all you room bass Problems.
2 Defiance x12 are sufficient(I have x15, fantastic sub but way too big) .
If you're satisfied with YPAO bass room correction, juste take the svs ones.

Surround speakers:depends on if you want classic 5.1, 7.1 surround or 7.2 Atmos.

25s are better for classic surround,(specially for one listening spot) rear sound is diffuse, you can't localize it.

15b are great, and compatible Atmos configuration(dipole 25s are not recommanded)

And right, don't spend big money on cables, it's totally useless. Get Amazon Basics like, it's sufficient. If you had intended to have big budget on cables, spend it to upgrade your fronts or sub or center!

If you have a bigger budget, take the 85F first(not 95F, bass are too powerful for your room)
Then better subs.

Keep us Informed!

Last edited by batfunk2; 05-18-2020 at 06:10 PM.
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post #38327 of 38557 Old 05-18-2020, 07:08 PM
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Paradigm Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John LeClair View Post
Yes i would love to elaborate so that others may avoid falling into the trap. It appears that there is a rampant problem with fraud in the AVS classified section. Here was my scenario:

I posted a WTB Paradigm Stuido v5 thread in the classified section.
I received a PM indicating a "friend" of this guy had some for sale and to contact him at an email address which i did.
I proceeded in dialogue with the "friend" who provided pictures of Studio 20s in Rosenut with the matching J29 stands (my exact need).
We agreed on a price and i proceeded to send this thief money to a Zelle account.
A day later the thief said he went to ship the speakers to me but could not because of Covid19.
A few days passed and i replied that since he would not be able to ship the speakers that he should return the money to my Zelle account. This email went without response.
I then went to Zelle to make the request that money be returned to my Zelle account and the thief had unregistered the Zelle account.
The scam was complete.

I have learned a lot from this experience and take full responsibility for my mistakes. My concern is that i reviewed the classified section on AVS forum and this appears to be a recurring problem. However, it does not appear that the administrators have taken appropriate preventive action to reduce or eliminate this from occurring in the future.

Sadly, i think i will not be the last to fall victim to this crime on the AVS classified site. For example, i have received multiple PMs since the original with the same message theme "i have a friend willing to sell." Try it for yourselves if you are interested. I bet if you start a WTB thread you will receive a similar PM shortly after posting......from a person that has a friend looking to sell what you are looking to buy.

Lesson learned.

I had someone reach out to me via a private message with a similar message about his friend being a dealer for the new JBL HDI speakers. I asked him what the name of the dealer was. He never responded. I merely posted in the jbl synthesis thread that i liked the new HDI speakers, and the person reached out to me. I’m not even looking to buy them anytime soon. AVS needs to go after these people if there’s anyone to actually do that for the forum. Is there a way to report fraud to anyone policing the forum, and then provide the profile name of the forum member to report the person?


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post #38328 of 38557 Old 05-19-2020, 06:23 PM
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Decided to take advantage of the sale and get a pair of 85f for my front wides. Can't wait!

JVC DLA-RS1000, 120″ EluneVision Reference Studio AudioWeave 2.35:1 CinemaScope screen, Marantz AV8802a Pre/Pro, Anthem MCA 525, Anthem MCA 225, Anthem PVA-4, Paradigm CI Elite E80-R ceiling speakers x4, Paradigm Prestige 95F, Paradigm Prestige 15B x4, Paradigm Prestige 55C, Paradigm Signature Sub 1, Panasonic UDP820 UHD player, OPPO 203 UHD player, Richard Gray 1200c Custom power conditioner, AC Infinity AIRCOM X4.
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post #38329 of 38557 Old 05-20-2020, 05:11 AM
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Good choice! Now you must deal with room correction to fully enjoy your new speakers 🙂
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post #38330 of 38557 Old 05-21-2020, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John LeClair View Post
Yes i would love to elaborate so that others may avoid falling into the trap. It appears that there is a rampant problem with fraud in the AVS classified section. Here was my scenario:

I posted a WTB Paradigm Stuido v5 thread in the classified section.
I received a PM indicating a "friend" of this guy had some for sale and to contact him at an email address which i did.
I proceeded in dialogue with the "friend" who provided pictures of Studio 20s in Rosenut with the matching J29 stands (my exact need).
We agreed on a price and i proceeded to send this thief money to a Zelle account.
A day later the thief said he went to ship the speakers to me but could not because of Covid19.
A few days passed and i replied that since he would not be able to ship the speakers that he should return the money to my Zelle account. This email went without response.
I then went to Zelle to make the request that money be returned to my Zelle account and the thief had unregistered the Zelle account.
The scam was complete.

I have learned a lot from this experience and take full responsibility for my mistakes. My concern is that i reviewed the classified section on AVS forum and this appears to be a recurring problem. However, it does not appear that the administrators have taken appropriate preventive action to reduce or eliminate this from occurring in the future.

Sadly, i think i will not be the last to fall victim to this crime on the AVS classified site. For example, i have received multiple PMs since the original with the same message theme "i have a friend willing to sell." Try it for yourselves if you are interested. I bet if you start a WTB thread you will receive a similar PM shortly after posting......from a person that has a friend looking to sell what you are looking to buy.

Lesson learned.
***Again, as so many posters said before - - so sorry for your loss. I can still see your "Ad" on the classifieds. The AVS Forum is a wonderful place to exchange ideas and experiences, but the "AVS Forum Classified Rules" are pretty loose, unregulated, unprotected and quite frankly, a "free for all" that is ripe for fraud and abuse. Their "Disclaimer" says it all. (See below)

"AVS Forum does not promote/endorse any products listed for sale in this area. We will not, as a policy, become involved in any disputes between sellers and buyers. However, please note that your participation on the forum is a privilege, not a right, and that your privileges may be revoked if there are serious, legitimate complaints about you."

In hindsight (which is always 30/20 in my book) - PayPal is certainly a great way to protect yourself. So is buying through established websites like "Audiogon" - which have very defined buy/sell processes as well as multiple payment methods for the protection of both parties. Obviously, an expensive lesson that you shouldn't have had to go through. Keep the faith and I hope you find the Studio 5's to complete your setup.
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SONY 75X900F & 49X900E, Denon X6700H & Emotiva XPA-3, OPPO 103 - 9.1.4 Setup - Speakers - Studio 60's-V.5 (FL/FR), CC-690-V.5 (C), ADP 590-V.5 (SS), MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub, Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides). Stereo 2 Channel Only - Dali Evidence 470 & MartinLogan Forte Amplifier/Streamer with ARC.

Last edited by Ricoflashback; 05-21-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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post #38331 of 38557 Old 05-21-2020, 10:40 AM
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Can any prestige series owner comment on how it compares with KEF R series? Has anyone done A/B comparison?

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post #38332 of 38557 Old 05-21-2020, 01:58 PM
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Decided to take advantage of the sale and get a pair of 85f for my front wides. Can't wait!
Hi,

Before you hook them up as wides, try them as side surrounds.

You might be pleasantly surprised.

Tom
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Hi,

Before you hook them up as wides, try them as side surrounds.

You might be pleasantly surprised.

Tom
STOOOP IT!!!! You'll lead me down a rabbit hole in which I'll end up buying all 85's around lol...I'm trigger happy like that.
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JVC DLA-RS1000, 120″ EluneVision Reference Studio AudioWeave 2.35:1 CinemaScope screen, Marantz AV8802a Pre/Pro, Anthem MCA 525, Anthem MCA 225, Anthem PVA-4, Paradigm CI Elite E80-R ceiling speakers x4, Paradigm Prestige 95F, Paradigm Prestige 15B x4, Paradigm Prestige 55C, Paradigm Signature Sub 1, Panasonic UDP820 UHD player, OPPO 203 UHD player, Richard Gray 1200c Custom power conditioner, AC Infinity AIRCOM X4.
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post #38334 of 38557 Old 05-21-2020, 02:42 PM
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STOOOP IT!!!! You'll lead me down a rabbit hole in which I'll end up buying all 85's around lol...I'm trigger happy like that.
Oh. Yeah. Right. Sorry.

Noooooo rabbit holes.

Bad Tom
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post #38335 of 38557 Old 05-21-2020, 03:48 PM
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Can any prestige series owner comment on how it compares with KEF R series? Has anyone done A/B comparison?

Current KEF-R, no. Previous KEF-R, yes. A/B, no. They are quite nice really, and I'd imagine I'd be happy with them if they were all I could have. They were a measure more reserved than the Prestige, which some might like. I prefer the bit of added energy that I find the Prestige to have. Both nice looking, well-built. I like the Prestige plinth more, but that's kinda nit-picky. Previous R made in China, assume current R is as well. Prestige made in Canada, which is a winner in my book.

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Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
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post #38336 of 38557 Old 05-24-2020, 05:48 PM
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Paradigm Owners Thread

I got bored today and unboxed two of the E7 Elites, wired them to two channels of an MCA525 on a bench in my garage, and then plugged an RCA from that amp to the 1/8” stereo jack on my laptop.

I was floored, it gave me goosebumps. Not that I’m saying these are crazy superior, I know there are better speakers, and a variety of them, that are different in all sorts of subtle ways. More that it has been so long since I have heard a decent set of speakers that produce a nice clean imaging and presence that I had forgotten what it’s like.

I did listen to some songs that could have been helped with a subwoofer, but I was so enamored with the sound that I spent a good two hours sitting on that stool at the work bench, an E7 lying on its back on the floor at either side of me, clicking through live tracks and just enjoying the immersion.

Now I can’t wait to get them installed! Will be great to actually have EQ, LFE, and sound treatments.

Lakeview Cinema build thread
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post #38337 of 38557 Old 05-25-2020, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Can any prestige series owner comment on how it compares with KEF R series? Has anyone done A/B comparison?
I directly compared the 85F to the R900 and Klipsch RF-7iii. The Klipches were too bright with some material, but can play loudly and clearly. Both my wife and I thought the Kefs were too muffled compared to the other two. We went with the Paradigm 85F/55C/15Bs.
I also found that the vaunted Kef LS50 was not to my liking, so maybe I just don't enjoy Kef speakers.
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post #38338 of 38557 Old 05-25-2020, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
Can any prestige series owner comment on how it compares with KEF R series? Has anyone done A/B comparison?
I directly compared the 85F to the R900 and Klipsch RF-7iii. The Klipches were too bright with some material, but can play loudly and clearly. Both my wife and I thought the Kefs were too muffled compared to the other two. We went with the Paradigm 85F/55C/15Bs.
I also found that the vaunted Kef LS50 was not to my liking, so maybe I just don't enjoy Kef speakers.
Kef Ls50 review:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.11144/

Apparently no bass at all...

Kef r900 review:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-labs-measures

Very impressive linearity, similar to Revel loudspeakers. Extensive bass(35 hz at - 5 db). Better middle range than 85f(voices).But probably less enjoyful and dynamic than 85f(lacks small bump in bass and highs), sounds maybe a little flat. Great speaker anyway.
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post #38339 of 38557 Old 05-26-2020, 06:41 AM
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I’m sort of leaning towards doing back boxes for my atmos speakers as I think they will sound much better in terms of bass response. I would reach out to paradigm for required dimensions. Anyone have any instructions/pics of how they constructed and mounted their backer boxes for atmos speakers? I don’t want to go to the effort of trying to do them and then it sound worse than without them. I sort of feel totally lost in tackling how to do it. How do you insure they are air tight and don’t vibrate? And then again, how do you mount them bw the joists? I don’t do word working projects all the time so it’s a little intimidating. I don’t own a table saw etc.


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post #38340 of 38557 Old 05-26-2020, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batfunk2 View Post
Kef Ls50 review:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.11144/

Apparently no bass at all...

Kef r900 review:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-labs-measures

Very impressive linearity, similar to Revel loudspeakers. Extensive bass(35 hz at - 5 db). Better middle range than 85f(voices).But probably less enjoyful and dynamic than 85f(lacks small bump in bass and highs), sounds maybe a little flat. Great speaker anyway.
I have commented on this comparison a few times in the past.
I own a pair of KEF LS50 Wireless and they are awesome. Amazing bass for their size...so I'd take exception to that.
I compared the KEF R700 or 900, can't remember now in one setting. Compared the Paradigms in a separate dealer.

The KEF's are more laid back. Not bright. The highs are subdued compared to the Prestige. KEF images very well. I still get the impression that they disappear front to back. The depth of image is amazing and that phantom image comes through in spades. KEF is a very popular brand and I would like to think that those who chose them are the kinds of folks who love a fine wine. My impression is that it is an insult to push these too hard. There is some serious engineering in these speakers and it comes through. They look great too. Placement is critical to get their best.

The Prestige love to sing! They are much more forward sounding and they burst with sound. I've had many people over and they just marvel at the sound of my Paradigms like in a trance...like watching a 4K TV image or something...for hours. I love pulling the old phantom image trick on unsuspecting listeners. They get up out of their chair and go to where the vocals are coming from only to find it not there...and they honestly can stare right at the speaker and not hear it. I just love that. The Prestiges love to be played loud and they have a lot of head room. They just sore to impressive levels. These are like drinking whiskey. Not a fine wine here...these love to be played hard and impress with crystal clear, almost edgy clarity. Crystal clear. Placement is forgiving. Prestige looks great too.
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Music Room 5.1.2: L/R Paradigm Prestige 85F, Prestige CC55, CI Elite E80-A (Atmos), CI Elite E65-R, HSU VTF-15H MK2 sub, Onkyo TXNR-838, Emotiva XPA3 Gen2.
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Room: 13' X 11'6" X 14' Fairly new audioholic

Last edited by GTDTS; 05-26-2020 at 11:03 AM.
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