Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1241 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37201 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Definitive only recommends using wire to keep things simple. Use lfe cable or better yet call definitive or try for yourself.

Buy a audioquest y splitter. Like $10-15 more then mediabridge. never buy mediabridge again they are cheap and hum easily
No, they recommend it because it better uses the internal distribution and balance of the speakers that way, a more fuller range. They list both options.

Tested both ways and took measurements extensively. I suggest he does the same, but I've heard the same from other owners getting better results that way. There's no right or wrong way, just options. I just want to make sure he understands the two options and can decide for himself rather than use my opinion as definitive fact.
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post #37202 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 09:26 AM
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Definitive Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
No, they recommend it because it better uses the internal distribution and balance of the speakers that way, a more fuller range. They list both options.



Tested both ways and took measurements extensively. I suggest he does the same, but I've heard the same from other owners getting better results that way. There's no right or wrong way, just options. I just want to make sure he understands the two options and can decide for himself rather than use my opinion as definitive fact.


But, do I need my AVR to EQ the subs? It has dual sub EQ.


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post #37203 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
It's good to have options. Try both out and play with them before you organize your cables.

I have the HSU VTF15-MK2. I have the towers crossed at 40hz because they can easily hit that. With XT32 I found that setting and setup gave me the best results in all the tests. The sub would take over the deeper notes +LFE. Easily pressurizes my room with nice deep and clean sound and the highs are crystal clear.
I have the same sub. Curious as to how big your room is and what’s worked best for you. Both ports open, 1 port open? I have 1 open, but I seem to change it every other month.

I also have a Pioneer Elite and for some reason it won’t allow you to crossover channels individually so all my speakers are crossed over at 100Hz. I have my 9020’s set to small. I am working with a pretty small room too.
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post #37204 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 10:00 AM
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I have the same sub. Curious as to how big your room is and what’s worked best for you. Both ports open, 1 port open? I have 1 open, but I seem to change it every other month.



I also have a Pioneer Elite and for some reason it won’t allow you to crossover channels individually so all my speakers are crossed over at 100Hz. I have my 9020’s set to small. I am working with a pretty small room too.

That’s one main reason why I sold my Elite VSX-90 and got the Denon X4300H. The Pioneer AVR’s have one overall crossover. Why? I don’t know.. makes no sense to me. Also, I have the VTF-3 MK5 sub and run it left port open on EQ1 for the lowest extension.


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post #37205 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 10:29 AM
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I called Def Tech and the guy I talked to said they recommend speaker wire connections only on the towers and set them to Large. He said the LFE is there as a requirement because of the industry. He said it’s like having a tow package on truck but never needing to tow anything with it... it’s just there. So how does that effect the speaker EQ or my Hsu sub?


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post #37206 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
That’s one main reason why I sold my Elite VSX-90 and got the Denon X4300H. The Pioneer AVR’s have one overall crossover. Why? I don’t know.. makes no sense to me. Also, I have the VTF-3 MK5 sub and run it left port open on EQ1 for the lowest extension.


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I have an SC-95 and like it, but not having the freedom to set channels at different crossovers is ridiculous. I’m waiting for affordable 9.x.6 receivers to come out before I upgrade again. Maybe the Emotiva RMC-1, but it’s still probably out of the buy and stay married price range😬
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post #37207 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 10:54 AM
 
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Interesting definitive said that. They?ve always told me the opposite. Do the towers have phase control? Do your towers know the size of your room?

Unless you want to set them to large and lose a bunch of bass that?s sent to your hsu. Or lose control of 8080 subs. Not much fun getting up constantly to adjust 8080 volume knob.

Extensive testing or measuring would of shown you to use lfe. Also Better to use Center ch rca fit powered Center ch too.

Just trying to show you the advance way to hook up Definitive. Like I said before they recommend wire only and set to large or full range to dumb down the process for many.
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post #37208 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
I called Def Tech and the guy I talked to said they recommend speaker wire connections only on the towers and set them to Large. He said the LFE is there as a requirement because of the industry. He said it’s like having a tow package on truck but never needing to tow anything with it... it’s just there. So how does that effect the speaker EQ or my Hsu sub?


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I had a pro calibrator come out and after trying both setups we both agreed it sounded better to just run the speaker wire. I have bp2002tls and 2 x vtf3 mk5s.

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post #37209 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
I called Def Tech and the guy I talked to said they recommend speaker wire connections only on the towers and set them to Large. He said the LFE is there as a requirement because of the industry. He said it’s like having a tow package on truck but never needing to tow anything with it... it’s just there. So how does that effect the speaker EQ or my Hsu sub?


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Yes, that's correct. I got better results with keeping them at "small" on the AVR with 40hz crossover. The HSU takes the lower frequencies of the main channels + LFE. Lots of reinforced bass. You get a stronger midrange too since it uses the woofer. Like I said, as LFE only the -3dB point of the towers is pretty high, like 120hz if I remember correctly. I wouldn't want that going to the sub.

The sub EQ is a whole different thing. There's the dials in the back for the variable tuning, and the EQ that Audyssey applies.

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post #37210 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Interesting definitive said that. They?ve always told me the opposite. Do the towers have phase control? Do your towers know the size of your room?

Unless you want to set them to large and lose a bunch of bass that?s sent to your hsu. Or lose control of 8080 subs. Not much fun getting up constantly to adjust 8080 volume knob.

Extensive testing or measuring would of shown you to use lfe. Also Better to use Center ch rca fit powered Center ch too.

Just trying to show you the advance way to hook up Definitive. Like I said before they recommend wire only and set to large or full range to dumb down the process for many.
Please

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post #37211 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:13 AM
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I had a pro calibrator come out and after trying both setups we both agreed it sounded better to just run the speaker wire. I have bp2002tls and 2 x vtf3 mk5s.

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Yup Ditto

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post #37212 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Giants0691 View Post
I have the same sub. Curious as to how big your room is and what’s worked best for you. Both ports open, 1 port open? I have 1 open, but I seem to change it every other month.

I also have a Pioneer Elite and for some reason it won’t allow you to crossover channels individually so all my speakers are crossed over at 100Hz. I have my 9020’s set to small. I am working with a pretty small room too.
I have a small place. I set it up with the recommended settings for "movies" and with XT32. It's in the instructions, I believe it was Q=0.7, 1 port plugged, and Auto1 or something. I'll have to check when I get home.

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post #37213 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Interesting definitive said that. They?ve always told me the opposite. Do the towers have phase control? Do your towers know the size of your room?

Unless you want to set them to large and lose a bunch of bass that?s sent to your hsu. Or lose control of 8080 subs. Not much fun getting up constantly to adjust 8080 volume knob.

Extensive testing or measuring would of shown you to use lfe. Also Better to use Center ch rca fit powered Center ch too.

Just trying to show you the advance way to hook up Definitive. Like I said before they recommend wire only and set to large or full range to dumb down the process for many.

Yea that makes sense! What are you saying about the Center?


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post #37214 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
I have a small place. I set it up with the recommended settings for "movies" and with XT32. It's in the instructions, I believe it was Q=0.7, 1 port plugged, and Auto1 or something. I'll have to check when I get home.


Correct.. left port open, EQ1, 0 Phase, and Q @ 0.7


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post #37215 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 11:51 AM
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Now.. Gene makes sense. He likes towers set to Large with Sub “ON” and using LFE for better bass management.



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The 8080 towers send every below 125hz to subs. Everything above that goes to mids. So setting tower to 120hz and sub on is best option still. Gene doesn?t really know definitive really well. Still gives good ideas though
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The 8080 towers send every below 125hz to subs. Everything above that goes to mids. So setting tower to 120hz and sub on is best option still. Gene doesn?t really know definitive really well. Still gives good ideas though

So it would be better to use a Y-splitter from Sub 1 out and run a sub cable to each towers LFE.. Then use my VTF3.5 as Sub 2.. Set fronts as Small at 80hz after Audyssey?

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post #37218 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 02:25 PM
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I have to say, these SM45’s sound pretty good playing music so I hope the 8080’s sound as good or better!


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post #37219 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 02:33 PM
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Remember your HT Subwoofer basics....

One Sub (Properly Sized for the room) is fine "IF" you only care about even bass at one or two seats placed close together -AND- you can place it optimally for those seats.
So, if you meet these criteria then how you set up your towers (Large or Small w/ or w/o LFE) is entirely room dependant and will be different for everyone.

If you don't meet that criteria, then the LFE option for the Supertowers becomes more important. And while phase control for the subs on the Supertowers can help, it's really only a necessity if your not running a separate Sub or if you can only place your separate sub in a non-optimal location by not being able to mirror the subs in the towers.

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Remember your HT Subwoofer basics....



One Sub (Properly Sized for the room) is fine "IF" you only care about even bass at one or two seats placed close together -AND- you can place it optimally for those seats.

So, if you meet these criteria then how you set up your towers (Large or Small w/ or w/o LFE) is entirely room dependant and will be different for everyone.



If you don't meet that criteria, then the LFE option for the Supertowers becomes more important. And while phase control for the subs on the Supertowers can help, it's really only a necessity if your not running a separate Sub or if you can only place your separate sub in a non-optimal location by not being able to mirror the subs in the towers.

Trial and error huh? Try several modes and settings and see which you like best?


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post #37221 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
The 8080 towers send every below 125hz to subs. Everything above that goes to mids. So setting tower to 120hz and sub on is best option still. Gene doesn?t really know definitive really well. Still gives good ideas though
Gene is actually a big fan of Sandy's, he knows and likes all of Sandy's DefTech's pretty well, but also has been pretty kind to the newer stuff as well.
In general, his stance with Small -vs Large and a Full Range speaker tends to be, if the speaker will play clean down to 40hz, has a smooth natural roll off, and you have plenty of Sub. Set it to Large and let the speaker design handle the crossover roll off for that channel.

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So it would be better to use a Y-splitter from Sub 1 out and run a sub cable to each towers LFE.. Then use my VTF3.5 as Sub 2.. Set fronts as Small at 80hz after Audyssey?


Falconsfan, I have the 8060’s and when I was researching setups deftech confirmed the internal crossover was 125 hz. So like Timothy stated I believe that the fronts would need to be set at 125 and not 80 if you use the lfe input. I never found anywhere that stated whether the internal crossover could ever be bypassed.

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Trial and error huh? Try several modes and settings and see which you like best?


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Or, which measures best in "your space", all up to you in how you want to do it.

I personally still like to tweak by ear.

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I'm wondering if DefTech has changed their thoughts on speaker wire only -vs- wire + LFE, because with the new series, they're finally getting away from the "You Don't Need Separate Subs with These" way of thinking.

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Falconsfan, I have the 8060’s and when I was researching setups deftech confirmed the internal crossover was 125 hz. So like Timothy stated I believe that the fronts would need to be set at 125 and not 80 if you use the lfe input. I never found anywhere that stated whether the internal crossover could ever be bypassed.
It really depends on the slope of that crossover, -6db per octave you could still probably get by with 80hz, but if it's -12db per octave, then you'd want at least 100hz.

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I just love when people get be equipment especially speakers. Makes for awesome discussion.

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post #37227 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
It really depends on the slope of that crossover, -6db per octave you could still probably get by with 80hz, but if it's -12db per octave, then you'd want at least 100hz.


Thanks, I didn’t know that. Love to learn.

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I just love when people get be equipment especially speakers. Makes for awesome discussion.

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With the great news of our buddy Falconfan getting his new speakers I'd like to say that a pair of BP7000sc is in my future- pick up this weekend. Will be comparing directly to my bp3000s which I like a lot.

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With the great news of our buddy Falconfan getting his new speakers I'd like to say that a pair of BP7000sc is in my future- pick up this weekend.


You’re crazy!!! lol You have huge mammoth BP3000’s and now adding 155lbs each 7000’s! You’re a mad man!


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Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan
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post #37230 of 41104 Old 10-11-2017, 04:17 PM
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Definitive Owners Thread

And I’m confused as hell as to how to set up these towers! lol

I ordered some 10awg speaker wire, a Monster Y-Adapter, and two 9’ Monolith sub cables. I’ll figure it out somehow! lol


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Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan
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