Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1319 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #39541 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 08:30 AM
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I've got a pretty technical question here.I run definitive 9060 towers in a stereo setup.I have an emotiva PT-100 pre amp and a crown XLS 1002 power amp.

Right now I run my towers full range with speaker wire only.My amp has HIGH and LOW pass filters.The emotiva has 2 full range outputs and 2 summed full range outputs for subs.

My question is should I leave as is or set a high pass on my amp of say 80-100 hz and run rca cables from the 2 summed full range outputs on the emotiva pre amp for subs into my towers?

Would I achieve a better sound this way possibly or will it even matter?

Thanks for any help.

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post #39542 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 01:29 PM
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Bump...could really use some help guys...

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post #39543 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post
Bump...could really use some help guys...

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My opinion of this is that I would only run lfe to the speakers that have the largest subs. I would think that your 9060s would be better set as large. My 3000s and 7000s don’t handle the lowest of lows very well. I think the large setting cuts them off before they receive ultra low bass. But you may need to experiment with then lfe cables. They may sound better in your room. If you have capable subs the large or if not experiment with both setups.

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post #39544 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike131313 View Post
Hey everyone , hope some of you can help , i just picked up a old set of surround speakers and have no idea how to set them up . A set of BP2000 towers , CLR3000 center , set of BPVX/P rear and a Harmen Kardon AVR3600 reciever . I hooked everything up wi5h speaker wire and hdmi for tv and xbox , have picture on tv but no sound , decided to come on here and see before i swrew anything up.
Very nice. Speaker cables and set to large. Or you can cut the sub signal to the clr at 40 and same with bpvx. Large on the 2000s.
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post #39545 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
My opinion of this is that I would only run lfe to the speakers that have the largest subs. I would think that your 9060s would be better set as large. My 3000s and 7000s don’t handle the lowest of lows very well. I think the large setting cuts them off before they receive ultra low bass. But you may need to experiment with then lfe cables. They may sound better in your room. If you have capable subs the large or if not experiment with both setups.
Thanks for the reply.I can give it a try I just wanted to see if others had done what I'm thinking.

Right now my amp is powering the full spectrum.I was thinking if I set a high pass on my amp at 100hz and run lfe to towers then my crown wouldn't pre amplify the lows...that duty would be up to the amps in the towers.Now I think it is being double amplified from my amp then my tower amps.

Am I correct?

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post #39546 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 06:27 PM
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[QUOTE=josh6113;56490794]Thanks for the reply.I can give it a try I just wanted to see if others had done what I'm thinking.

Right now my amp is powering the full spectrum.I was thinking if I set a high pass on my amp at 100hz and run lfe to towers then my crown wouldn't pre amplify the lows...that duty would be up to the amps in the towers.Now I think it is being double amplified from my amp then my tower amps.

Am I correct?

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

I don’t think your amp powers the low end either way. The speakers are active as you know not passive. Anything lower than the internal crossover in the speakers are powered by the amp in the dt. As of now your amp is only powering the upper drivers. If you unplug the speaker amps the subs go silent. Your amp can’t power them.
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post #39547 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 06:29 PM
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[quote=keeper;56490814]
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post
Thanks for the reply.I can give it a try I just wanted to see if others had done what I'm thinking.

Right now my amp is powering the full spectrum.I was thinking if I set a high pass on my amp at 100hz and run lfe to towers then my crown wouldn't pre amplify the lows...that duty would be up to the amps in the towers.Now I think it is being double amplified from my amp then my tower amps.

Am I correct?

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I don’t think your amp powers the low end either way. The speakers are active as you know not passive. Anything lower than the internal crossover is powered by the amp in the dt. As of now your amp is only powering the upper drivers.
Ok...so it really won't make a difference either way I go....thanks

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post #39548 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 06:33 PM
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[quote=josh6113;56490828]
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
Ok...so it really won't make a difference either way I go....thanks

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It may. Large and lfe are different signals. You may get a lot more bass going lfe. Whether they sound good with lfe is something you may need to decide on. I run all of my 4 towers lfe and I get great bass. Large not so much.
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post #39549 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 06:35 PM
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[quote=keeper;56490840]
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Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

It may. Large and lfe are different signals. You may get a lot more bass going lfe.
That's interesting...if the towers have a crossover anyway how would that be?

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post #39550 of 40610 Old 07-14-2018, 07:35 PM
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8 year old Upgraded ProCinema 1000 for $400

Hi everyone.
I have an opportunity to buy an 8 year old 3.1 system for $400.
Does this sound like a fair deal?
Included are the following:
  • 2 ProMonitor 1000
  • 1 ProCenter 2000
  • 1 ProSub 1000
  • 2 ProStand 1000
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post #39551 of 40610 Old 07-15-2018, 10:26 AM
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Quick question. Presently running 3 x SM 45's as fronts/center. Amazon has them for $79 each now so thinking to pick up a 4th to have matching fronts and rears. Should I get a pair and continue to use as center or go for a dedicated center? If so money is an issue (need to buy a new couch) so best bang for the buck is a consideration. The rears right now are 15+ yo Energy Takes.

Thanks
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post #39552 of 40610 Old 07-15-2018, 05:07 PM
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I need a debate settled once and for all. I've been knocking this question around on various forums and can't seem to come to a consensus. BP9080x towers......set to Large or Small and at what crossover settings? Running an SVS PB-4000 sub as well. I've tried both settings with various crossovers. Small is less boomy but lacks much of the midbass. This may have to do solely with the crossover settings but I'm stumped at this point. Thoughts?
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post #39553 of 40610 Old 07-15-2018, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorman80 View Post
I need a debate settled once and for all. I've been knocking this question around on various forums and can't seem to come to a consensus. BP9080x towers......set to Large or Small and at what crossover settings? Running an SVS PB-4000 sub as well. I've tried both settings with various crossovers. Small is less boomy but lacks much of the midbass. This may have to do solely with the crossover settings but I'm stumped at this point. Thoughts?
It’s really is what sounds best to you. I’m not familiar with your speakers but I cross mine over at 80. I tried large and I just don’t get the bass out of them when I don’t send the lfe signal.
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post #39554 of 40610 Old 07-16-2018, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorman80 View Post
I need a debate settled once and for all. I've been knocking this question around on various forums and can't seem to come to a consensus. BP9080x towers......set to Large or Small and at what crossover settings? Running an SVS PB-4000 sub as well. I've tried both settings with various crossovers. Small is less boomy but lacks much of the midbass. This may have to do solely with the crossover settings but I'm stumped at this point. Thoughts?
Quote:
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It’s really is what sounds best to you. I’m not familiar with your speakers but I cross mine over at 80. I tried large and I just don’t get the bass out of them when I don’t send the lfe signal.
^^ This ^^
Because all of your adjustments are bass management and bass management is more room dependant than anything, there's no cookie cutter answer and it's solely dependant on what you think sounds good in the space.

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post #39555 of 40610 Old 07-16-2018, 08:48 PM
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[quote=josh6113;56490854]
Quote:
Originally Posted by keeper View Post
That's interesting...if the towers have a crossover anyway how would that be?

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Personally, because this is a Stereo setup, you're honestly splitting hairs.
Full Range, adjust subs according to room and taste, and let the internal crossovers in the speakers do their job.
Just make sure you're getting the full stereo signal from your source and all will be good.

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post #39556 of 40610 Old 07-17-2018, 08:37 AM
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[quote=ALtlOff;56500302]
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Personally, because this is a Stereo setup, you're honestly splitting hairs.
Full Range, adjust subs according to room and taste, and let the internal crossovers in the speakers do their job.
Just make sure you're getting the full stereo signal from your source and all will be good.
@alti Off Glad to see you are back posting. I was hoping you would chime in as you have an incredible amount of knowledge on dt products.
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post #39557 of 40610 Old 07-17-2018, 08:43 AM
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[quote=ALtlOff;56500302]
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

Personally, because this is a Stereo setup, you're honestly splitting hairs.
Full Range, adjust subs according to room and taste, and let the internal crossovers in the speakers do their job.
Just make sure you're getting the full stereo signal from your source and all will be good.
Thanks...this is how I run them anyway and they sound great.I was just trying to squeeze a little more out of em if possible...

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post #39558 of 40610 Old 07-17-2018, 09:04 AM
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Definitive Technology C/L/R2002 VS older C1

Definitive Technology C/L/R2002 VS, older C1

Hello all I have the def. tech C1 it’s a older center speaker still sounds great.

I have a chance to obtain a used CLR 2002 seller is asking $85. curious how much if any better sound quality will be? Like a percentage? and if I sell what I can ask for my C1?


Using the sm450 as right/left and the DT satellites pro 80s for surrounds. Mainly TV speakers and ocantional music.
Please advice STB
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post #39559 of 40610 Old 07-17-2018, 11:47 AM
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[quote=josh6113;56490854]
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
That's interesting...if the towers have a crossover anyway how would that be?

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Regarding full band vs lfe to the BP90x0 question, if you depend on the internal crossover, it's "filtering" the active signal. By design, it should be the most "technically" ideal configuration, as the crossover is designed as an integral part of the sound of the speaker. HOWEVER, you are dropping some of the signal from the source via the amp, going into the speaker, so the main amp is amplifying 100% of the frequencies, but the amplified portion being output by the passive drivers is only some fraction (say 80%) of the source signal, with the rest being filtered down to the input stage of the speaker amp. Then the internal speaker amp for the woofers takes that last 20% of filtered sound, amplifies it back to the woofer output for reproduction of the sound. By doing this, it's feeding a modified, internally crossed-over, output to both stages of the speaker, with some design parameters around full frequency reproduction trying to match the source input.

By separating LFE to it's own stage, the pre-amp is only feeding the desired (by room calibration) range of output frequencies to the main amplifier for reproduction by the upper stage. This means the main amplifier is now amplifying a smaller portion of the total spectrum, and nothing is being filtered statically in the speaker (while maybe not strictly true, the speaker internal crossover has minimal signal remaining to handle as the pre-amp has already cut the lowpass signal out). The pre-amp is then feeding the LFE frequencies at 100% signal within the calibrated lowpass frequencies, to only the amplifier in the woofer stage of the BP. So the upper stage is playing ~100% of the source it's receiving from the external amp, and the lower stage is playing ~100% of the source it's receiving via the built-in amp.

The question then becomes, what system has a better matched crossover and desired effect for your situation. This is why the listener ultimately has to decide. The pre-amp LFE and "primary" signals need to match the speaker characteristics well to ensure a balanced output. The speaker designers have already "pre-designed" the speaker based on their knowledge of the built product, but are filtering the signal internally in a fashion that is likely different than the pre-amp LFE decision/crossover processes.

Neither are wrong, and depending on your pre-amp, and room-processing software, you may be able to get much better tuning results using the pre-amp calibration, versus the speaker's pre-determined crossover points. Calibration of the pre-amp, with the speaker crossover in place, will improve the signal to match your specific room, but the crossover is a "fixed" alteration of the signal, that may not be ideal for your specific setup. Or you may not hear any difference at all if the speaker's full-range with x-over matches your room and listening preferences well, then you'll arrive at the same result either way probably. Hope that helps some? (And this is my take on this situation, feel free to correct or contribute anything I may be in error on).
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post #39560 of 40610 Old 07-17-2018, 12:00 PM
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[quote=christexan;56502880]
Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post
Regarding full band vs lfe to the BP90x0 question, if you depend on the internal crossover, it's "filtering" the active signal. By design, it should be the most "technically" ideal configuration, as the crossover is designed as an integral part of the sound of the speaker. HOWEVER, you are dropping some of the signal from the source via the amp, going into the speaker, so the main amp is amplifying 100% of the frequencies, but the amplified portion being output by the passive drivers is only some fraction (say 80%) of the source signal, with the rest being filtered down to the input stage of the speaker amp. Then the internal speaker amp for the woofers takes that last 20% of filtered sound, amplifies it back to the woofer output for reproduction of the sound. By doing this, it's feeding a modified, internally crossed-over, output to both stages of the speaker, with some design parameters around full frequency reproduction trying to match the source input.

By separating LFE to it's own stage, the pre-amp is only feeding the desired (by room calibration) range of output frequencies to the main amplifier for reproduction by the upper stage. This means the main amplifier is now amplifying a smaller portion of the total spectrum, and nothing is being filtered statically in the speaker (while maybe not strictly true, the speaker internal crossover has minimal signal remaining to handle as the pre-amp has already cut the lowpass signal out). The pre-amp is then feeding the LFE frequencies at 100% signal within the calibrated lowpass frequencies, to only the amplifier in the woofer stage of the BP. So the upper stage is playing ~100% of the source it's receiving from the external amp, and the lower stage is playing ~100% of the source it's receiving via the built-in amp.

The question then becomes, what system has a better matched crossover and desired effect for your situation. This is why the listener ultimately has to decide. The pre-amp LFE and "primary" signals need to match the speaker characteristics well to ensure a balanced output. The speaker designers have already "pre-designed" the speaker based on their knowledge of the built product, but are filtering the signal internally in a fashion that is likely different than the pre-amp LFE decision/crossover processes.

Neither are wrong, and depending on your pre-amp, and room-processing software, you may be able to get much better tuning results using the pre-amp calibration, versus the speaker's pre-determined crossover points. Calibration of the pre-amp, with the speaker crossover in place, will improve the signal to match your specific room, but the crossover is a "fixed" alteration of the signal, that may not be ideal for your specific setup. Or you may not hear any difference at all if the speaker's full-range with x-over matches your room and listening preferences well, then you'll arrive at the same result either way probably. Hope that helps some? (And this is my take on this situation, feel free to correct or contribute anything I may be in error on).
This is a great post and I believe you understand what I'm talking about.My emotiva pt-100 preamp has no room correction it just feeds a full range signal out.It also has 2 summed(as in mono) full range outputs for bass or subs.

You are correct in saying my crown amp now is powering the full frequency to my POWERED towers.This is why I was asking about hooking up the LFE.My crown has LOW and HIGH pass filters..(crossovers)...built in and my thought was setting a high pass of 100hz from amp that way my amp is ONLY amplifying above 100hz and then the LFE out of my preamp to my towers.That way the amp in my towers will amplify the lows and not my amp THEN again on my powered towers amp.

Hope that makes sense.

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post #39561 of 40610 Old 07-17-2018, 01:39 PM
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[quote=keeper;56501800]
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post

@alti Off Glad to see you are back posting. I was hoping you would chime in as you have an incredible amount of knowledge on dt products.
I've had to be "all in" on a couple of other projects over the past 5 months, that are finally about finished.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post
Definitive Technology C/L/R2002 VS, older C1

Hello all I have the def. tech C1 it’s a older center speaker still sounds great.

I have a chance to obtain a used CLR 2002 seller is asking $85. curious how much if any better sound quality will be? Like a percentage? and if I sell what I can ask for my C1?


Using the sm450 as right/left and the DT satellites pro 80s for surrounds. Mainly TV speakers and ocantional music.
Please advice STB
The 2002 "should" give you a slightly fuller sound, but they are honestly going to be very close.

But... $85 is actually a pretty good price for a CLR2002 (usually $100-125) so you shouldn't get hurt if you don't think it was worth it.
As for your C-1, figure $50-100, a C-1 Jr about $50-75

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post #39563 of 40610 Old 07-17-2018, 06:34 PM
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I think this has been asked before but could not find it.does anyone know the crossover of the mid to bass on the 9060 towers?I thought is was like 120hz but I could be wrong.I wonder if definitive would give me that info?

Thanks

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post #39564 of 40610 Old 07-18-2018, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
The 2002 "should" give you a slightly fuller sound, but they are honestly going to be very close.

But... $85 is actually a pretty good price for a CLR2002 (usually $100-125) so you shouldn't get hurt if you don't think it was worth it.
As for your C-1, figure $50-100, a C-1 Jr about $50-75
yeah I was thinking since the drivers are the same 5.25" they would sound the same.

the clr2002 case is 5"s wider maybe that makes a difference?

probably will keep the C1

please recommend a upgraded CC.
edit: I don't think the mythos w/ there very small drivers will sound as good as either C1 or CLR2002 thoughts.
STB

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post #39565 of 40610 Old 07-18-2018, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post
I think this has been asked before but could not find it.does anyone know the crossover of the mid to bass on the 9060 towers?I thought is was like 120hz but I could be wrong.I wonder if definitive would give me that info?

Thanks
I called Def Tech and asked them the same question regarding my 8060's and they said the internal crossover is set at 120 hz. I think its safe to assume the 9060's are the same since the drivers are all the same size.

In regards to the whole lfe or speaker wire only options, I've personally never really understood how it would make that much difference unless someone has an external subwoofer. If the internal crossover is set to 120hz then the 4.5 inch mid-range speakers will never play below 120hz-ish no matter what the setup. Isn't the speaker always crossed at 120hz even if you set the speaker to small and a lower crossover in the AVR? because there is still a crossover built into the speaker. I guess I don't really think there is a benefit in a stereo setup. However in a surround sound setup or stereo with an external subwoofer then I guess there is a benefit because you could send lfe to the towers in addition to the external sub and have three sources of lfe to smooth out the bass response in the room. I am definitely no expert though.
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post #39566 of 40610 Old 07-18-2018, 04:20 AM
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There is definitely a difference, though it's subtle. The main thing about using the LFE is for watching/listening to .1 content. The channel is separate, so why not use it?

For my 3.1 living room, I have my 8060s wired with speaker and LFE cable. For DD content from DirecTV, Netflix, and Prime, I use straight Dolby Digital on my Yamaha AVR and the LFE is engaged. For 2.0 records and Apple Music from the ATV, I put the AVR in Pure Direct mode, which outputs 2 unprocessed channels to the 8060s, and they run full range.
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post #39567 of 40610 Old 07-18-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by j4894 View Post
I called Def Tech and asked them the same question regarding my 8060's and they said the internal crossover is set at 120 hz. I think its safe to assume the 9060's are the same since the drivers are all the same size.

In regards to the whole lfe or speaker wire only options, I've personally never really understood how it would make that much difference unless someone has an external subwoofer. If the internal crossover is set to 120hz then the 4.5 inch mid-range speakers will never play below 120hz-ish no matter what the setup. Isn't the speaker always crossed at 120hz even if you set the speaker to small and a lower crossover in the AVR? because there is still a crossover built into the speaker. I guess I don't really think there is a benefit in a stereo setup. However in a surround sound setup or stereo with an external subwoofer then I guess there is a benefit because you could send lfe to the towers in addition to the external sub and have three sources of lfe to smooth out the bass response in the room. I am definitely no expert though.
Probably right and makes sense. When I was measuring the 9060s with the power cable unplugged, Audyssey found the -3dB at 120hz.

Sony XBR-65Z9D / Oppo UDP-203 / Marantz SR7011 / Def Tech 9060 Series
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post #39568 of 40610 Old 07-18-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Probably right and makes sense. When I was measuring the 9060s with the power cable unplugged, Audyssey found the -3dB at 120hz.
Great...thanks for confirming guys.

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post #39569 of 40610 Old 07-18-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post
yeah I was thinking since the drivers are the same 5.25" they would sound the same.

the clr2002 case is 5"s wider maybe that makes a difference?

probably will keep the C1

please recommend a upgraded CC.
edit: I don't think the mythos w/ there very small drivers will sound as good as either C1 or CLR2002 thoughts.
STB
CLR2000 / CLR2500 / CLR3000
Unless you are going to upgrade to towers in the future, I'd go with the CLR2000.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
My Build Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...formation.html
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post #39570 of 40610 Old 07-18-2018, 03:22 PM
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please recommend a upgraded CC.

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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
CLR2000 / CLR2500 / CLR3000
Unless you are going to upgrade to towers in the future, I'd go with the CLR2000.
@stevethebrain I was on the hunt for a CLR2002 for several months and had trouble finding one in good condition for double the price you're being offered it. Eventually I found a CLR2000 local and pulled the trigger. While it's fantastic, the Mrs is not happy with its size. The bigger is better theory doesn't apply to speakers in the female camp apparently.



So, since I see you're in FL, I might be willing to work out a trade for that 2002 if its in good condition. Feel free to send me a PM if you're interested in trying to work out a deal.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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