Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1346 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40351 of 40675 Old 04-06-2019, 09:08 PM
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On-Wall Speakers

Currently have a bunch of mythos (center + two floor standing) with a SVS ported sub (huge). I'm interested in going to wall-mounted ones for a variety of reasons. Considering two smaller subs rather than this giant one. Requirements: I don't want to step down in sound quality, and I'd like everything wall mounted. I only really care about sports/theater/games.

What would this group recommend?

Edit: Center doesn't need to be wall-mounted, but L/R and hopefully two subs.
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post #40352 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 09:01 AM
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Question About Definitive Tech

Hello All,

New here and new to all this so please be patient with me lol anywho I just recently started building my system for my dedicated home theater. I just purchased a Yamaha RX-A3080, Def Tech BP9080x, CS9060, BP9060 and D7's. I ran YPAO to configure everything but I am not totally impressed, I went to best buy and listened to the Def Tech BP9080's before I bought them and they sounded amazing at the store but not so much in my home theater. To get a decent listening volume I have to turn the receiver up to 20db, The room is 15X21, I am still within my 30 day return period and was eyeing the SVS Prime Ultras as a replacement. Can anyone provide a way to properly configure the Def Techs before I return them? Thanks in advance
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post #40353 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dpforlife View Post
Hello All,

New here and new to all this so please be patient with me lol anywho I just recently started building my system for my dedicated home theater. I just purchased a Yamaha RX-A3080, Def Tech BP9080x, CS9060, BP9060 and D7's. I ran YPAO to configure everything but I am not totally impressed, I went to best buy and listened to the Def Tech BP9080's before I bought them and they sounded amazing at the store but not so much in my home theater. To get a decent listening volume I have to turn the receiver up to 20db, The room is 15X21, I am still within my 30 day return period and was eyeing the SVS Prime Ultras as a replacement. Can anyone provide a way to properly configure the Def Techs before I return them? Thanks in advance
Chances are at Best Buy, nothing is calibrated. So I would suggest shutting off the calibration and seeing how it sounds. Sometimes this calibration does more harm than good. Back in the hi-fi days, nothing was ever calibrated (in home systems). There may also be problems with your room. Try moving the speakers around a bit and re-calibrating.

I have a high-end Pioneer receiver. It sounds fine for Blu-ray and TV, but it really sounds awful for music (IMO). I was forced to add back my old 2-channel equipment and I built an amp switch so both systems can feed the same front left-right speakers. When I first did that, I was still using an Apt-Holman preamp and Crown power amp and there was no question that it sounded far better than the Pioneer for both vinyl and LP listening. But since then, I've replaced the Crown with the Dynacord ST70 Series 3 tube power amp, which is an updated re-creation of the 1960's original and that sounds incredibly better than the Crown did, so unbelievably better than the Pioneer. And I think it has to do with all the digital processing in the Pioneer. Even when I put it in the mode where there's supposedly no processing, it sounds dull and horrible.

But don't worry about the level setting. Just play it where you like how it sounds. The DefTech's are wonderful speakers so they should sound fine.
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post #40354 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 09:52 AM
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Chances are at Best Buy, nothing is calibrated. So I would suggest shutting off the calibration and seeing how it sounds. Sometimes this calibration does more harm than good. Back in the hi-fi days, nothing was ever calibrated (in home systems). There may also be problems with your room. Try moving the speakers around a bit and re-calibrating.

I have a high-end Pioneer receiver. It sounds fine for Blu-ray and TV, but it really sounds awful for music (IMO). I was forced to add back my old 2-channel equipment and I built an amp switch so both systems can feed the same front left-right speakers. When I first did that, I was still using an Apt-Holman preamp and Crown power amp and there was no question that it sounded far better than the Pioneer for both vinyl and LP listening. But since then, I've replaced the Crown with the Dynacord ST70 Series 3 tube power amp, which is an updated re-creation of the 1960's original and that sounds incredibly better than the Crown did, so unbelievably better than the Pioneer. And I think it has to do with all the digital processing in the Pioneer. Even when I put it in the mode where there's supposedly no processing, it sounds dull and horrible.

But don't worry about the level setting. Just play it where you like how it sounds. The DefTech's are wonderful speakers so they should sound fine.

Thanks for the response, I will give moving the speakers around a try. I was toying with the idea of adding a Monoprice Monolith amp but before I spend the money I wanted to make sure it wasn't a calibration issue would much rather put the money towards a subwoofer.
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post #40355 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dpforlife View Post
Thanks for the response, I will give moving the speakers around a try. I was toying with the idea of adding a Monoprice Monolith amp but before I spend the money I wanted to make sure it wasn't a calibration issue would much rather put the money towards a subwoofer.
No offense intended to the poster above, but I'm not sure I understand what advice he was intending to give you. There is a protocol for positioning L/R mains to achieve proper sound stage & imaging, so if you need guidance on this, links to tips and techniques can be provided.


I think you need to provide more information before anyone can properly help you. I agree that most BB listening rooms/Best Buy Magnolia Rooms do not take the time to calibrate speakers properly, nor find the best positioning for them in that room. If they did, many speakers would overlap in their best sounding footprint. So BB typically puts the most expensive speakers in their best position, then work the rest around them.


A few questions for you before attempting to prescribe any solutions:


1) What is the over all volume of your room? This includes the height of your ceilings, plus LxWxH of any adjacent rooms that are open to your main listening room.
2) What do you feel is lacking in your performance? Either in general or vs your demo experience.
3) How far apart are your current L/R mains to each other and how from are they from your MLP?
4) Do you have a separate sub/subs?
5) If you do have separate subs, what kind, how many, and what did you do to integrate and time align them with your main speakers? (this is a big question)


Also, auto room correction can be positively/negatively affected by proper mic placement patterns amongst other considerations.
6) How did you wire the main 9080's.....and just to be clear, you do have the BP9080 towers as your mains, correct?
7) How did you wire your BP9080 Towers, if indeed that is what you have?


My guess is substituting more/different power is not your issue and calibration/integration is.


Regards.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40356 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post
No offense intended to the poster above, but I'm not sure I understand what advice he was intending to give you. There is a protocol for positioning L/R mains to achieve proper sound stage & imaging, so if you need guidance on this, links to tips and techniques can be provided.


I think you need to provide more information before anyone can properly help you. I agree that most BB listening rooms/Best Buy Magnolia Rooms do not take the time to calibrate speakers properly, nor find the best positioning for them in that room. If they did, many speakers would overlap in their best sounding footprint. So BB typically puts the most expensive speakers in their best position, then work the rest around them.


A few questions for you before attempting to prescribe any solutions:


1) What is the over all volume of your room? This includes the height of your ceilings, plus LxWxH of any adjacent rooms that are open to your main listening room.
2) What do you feel is lacking in your performance? Either in general or vs your demo experience.
3) How far apart are your current L/R mains to each other and how from are they from your MLP?
4) Do you have a separate sub/subs?
5) If you do have separate subs, what kind, how many, and what did you do to integrate and time align them with your main speakers? (this is a big question)


Also, auto room correction can be positively/negatively affected by proper mic placement patterns amongst other considerations.
6) How did you wire the main 9080's.....and just to be clear, you do have the BP9080 towers as your mains, correct?
7) How did you wire your BP9080 Towers, if indeed that is what you have?


My guess is substituting more/different power is not your issue and calibration/integration is.


Regards.
Thank you for your detailed info/questions, I am currently at work so I will guess at the measurements and do my best to answer your questions:

1) What is the over all volume of your room? This includes the height of your ceilings, plus LxWxH of any adjacent rooms that are open to your main listening room.

The room is 15X21, the ceilings are roughly 8 feet high, no other rooms adjacent, the room is in my finished basement and has a door to the hallway

2) What do you feel is lacking in your performance? Either in general or vs your demo experience.

The demo seemed louder, much louder and had way more bass, he played the 9080's with just the CS9080 center, I tried to recreate the demo as he played music that I chose.

3) How far apart are your current L/R mains to each other and how from are they from your MLP?

The mains are roughly 99 inches apart and 8 or 9 feet from my MLP

4) Do you have a separate sub/subs?

No I do not currently have a sub

5) If you do have separate subs, what kind, how many, and what did you do to integrate and time align them with your main speakers? (this is a big question)
N/A

Also, auto room correction can be positively/negatively affected by proper mic placement patterns amongst other considerations.
6) How did you wire the main 9080's.....and just to be clear, you do have the BP9080 towers as your mains, correct?

I have BP9080's for L/R main, CS9060 center, BP9060's surrounds and Def Tech D7's surrounds

7) How did you wire your BP9080 Towers, if indeed that is what you have?

I wired the BP9080 towers to the front L/R channel on my Receiver and ran YPAO on my receiver for setup.

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post #40357 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 02:31 PM
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Just to make sure, I'm assuming you also plugged in the towers with the power chords?

Sony XBR-77A9G / Panasonic DP-UB9000 / Marantz SR7011 / Def Tech 9060 Series
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post #40358 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 04:06 PM
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Just to make sure, I'm assuming you also plugged in the towers with the power chords?
That’s a joke right.....
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post #40359 of 40675 Old 04-15-2019, 04:09 PM
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That’s a joke right.....
You'd be surprised

Sony XBR-77A9G / Panasonic DP-UB9000 / Marantz SR7011 / Def Tech 9060 Series
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post #40360 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 04:03 AM
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Lightbulb Also..................

You have gotten great advice thus far. I just wanted to add a couple of things. Be aware that your receiver may have very well set a higher crossover frequency for your main right and Left speaker (should not have as they have the subs in them but...........) so it would be a good idea to go in and make sure that they are set to "Full Range" since you do not have a separate sub.

Also as these speakers are bi-polar (produce sound from both the front and rear of the speaker) make sure you have them pulled out from the wall a good bit in order to get the sound stage to open up the way it should. Also play with the volume knob on the subwoofer amp as well. Wide open is not the way to go on the volume. I would not go any more than 3/4 on that.

Somewhere in there I think you will find the issue. Those speakers should be bale to give you what you are looking for. -20 on the volume scale really is kind of normal. As a test of things play a CD and put your receiver on "Pure Direct" and turn it up and see what it does. This takes all of the processing out of the mix and will show you what the receiver has for the speakers and it will only play the right and left front speakers. If it sounds awesome then you know you are looking more at a set-up issue most likely.

Good luck.
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If it sounds and looks good, it sounds and looks good!!
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post #40361 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 06:40 AM
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[QUOTE=Dpforlife;57905820]Thank you for your detailed info/questions, I am currently at work so I will guess at the measurements and do my best to answer your questions:
QUOTE]

It seems like you are on the right track. Definitely make sure the front speakers are pulled out from the front wall as suggested above. In my case, I found about 22" from back wall to the back of the BP's worked best in my room, YMMV. Also, since you are in a basement, I'm guessing you have cement floors. This will tame the bass some. If your MLP happens to be sitting in a null, that could make things sound lifeless on the low end. I know Def Tech likes to promote you don't need a separate sub(s), but front speaker placement is seldom the best location for smooth FR down low.


I would experiment with toeing in the speakers a bit as well as experimenting with the bass volume knob on the back.


Check each driver to make sure all seem to be working.


Also, to be clear, is your volume displayed in Relative Mode, meaning you are cranking it up to +20db over 0.0db and you ears are not bleeding?


Or is your volume displayed in Absolute Mode?

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40362 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 06:58 AM
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Just looking for some opinions here...I have the BP9020s and a CS9040 for my LCR. Plan to upgrade my rears to Def Techs and want to add the A90 Atmos modules. I am looking for opinions on what receiver to get to push them. Currently I have an 8 year old Pioneer VSX-1121. I dont see myself expanding beyond 5.1.2, nor using extra zone capabilities. I have been looking at the Denon AVR-X3500h for quite a while, but I have given thought to the Pioneer Elite SC-LX503 and the Yamaha V2085 (basically an A2080 in disguise). The Denon and the Pioneer are the cheapest, which is appealing, but I want another receiver that lasts 8 years, so I am wondering about your experiences and opinions to help me pick. Thanks in advance.
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post #40363 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Wafflebird View Post
You have gotten great advice thus far. I just wanted to add a couple of things. Be aware that your receiver may have very well set a higher crossover frequency for your main right and Left speaker (should not have as they have the subs in them but...........) so it would be a good idea to go in and make sure that they are set to "Full Range" since you do not have a separate sub.

Also as these speakers are bi-polar (produce sound from both the front and rear of the speaker) make sure you have them pulled out from the wall a good bit in order to get the sound stage to open up the way it should. Also play with the volume knob on the subwoofer amp as well. Wide open is not the way to go on the volume. I would not go any more than 3/4 on that.

Somewhere in there I think you will find the issue. Those speakers should be bale to give you what you are looking for. -20 on the volume scale really is kind of normal. As a test of things play a CD and put your receiver on "Pure Direct" and turn it up and see what it does. This takes all of the processing out of the mix and will show you what the receiver has for the speakers and it will only play the right and left front speakers. If it sounds awesome then you know you are looking more at a set-up issue most likely.

Good luck. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=derekmoore;57908742]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpforlife View Post
Thank you for your detailed info/questions, I am currently at work so I will guess at the measurements and do my best to answer your questions:
QUOTE]

It seems like you are on the right track. Definitely make sure the front speakers are pulled out from the front wall as suggested above. In my case, I found about 22" from back wall to the back of the BP's worked best in my room, YMMV. Also, since you are in a basement, I'm guessing you have cement floors. This will tame the bass some. If your MLP happens to be sitting in a null, that could make things sound lifeless on the low end. I know Def Tech likes to promote you don't need a separate sub(s), but front speaker placement is seldom the best location for smooth FR down low.


I would experiment with toeing in the speakers a bit as well as experimenting with the bass volume knob on the back.


Check each driver to make sure all seem to be working.


Also, to be clear, is your volume displayed in Relative Mode, meaning you are cranking it up to +20db over 0.0db and you ears are not bleeding?


Or is your volume displayed in Absolute Mode?
Thank you both for the info I will give your recommendations a try this weekend, last night I tried connecting LFE on the back of the speaker to the receiver and after running YPAO it didn’t recognize both, I had to go into the settings and switch the sub on which had the front mains at small so maybe the crossover frequency was wrong the first time when I ran YPAO with the speakers setup without LFE. I have them pulled away from the wall but one has more room to breath then the other due to console length and room configuration. Maybe pulling them forward more will help. I’ve included a picture (please excuse the wires as I am not hiding them until I have everything perfect) which shows front speaker placement only difference now is my console is longer as I added another piece for AV equipment. I might have to move things around more in order to give the speakers more space. The left front now sits between the wall and a console so maybe that is part of the problem.
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post #40364 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 09:47 AM
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[quote=derekmoore;57908742]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpforlife View Post
Thank you for your detailed info/questions, I am currently at work so I will guess at the measurements and do my best to answer your questions:
QUOTE]

It seems like you are on the right track. Definitely make sure the front speakers are pulled out from the front wall as suggested above. In my case, I found about 22" from back wall to the back of the BP's worked best in my room, YMMV. Also, since you are in a basement, I'm guessing you have cement floors. This will tame the bass some. If your MLP happens to be sitting in a null, that could make things sound lifeless on the low end. I know Def Tech likes to promote you don't need a separate sub(s), but front speaker placement is seldom the best location for smooth FR down low.


I would experiment with toeing in the speakers a bit as well as experimenting with the bass volume knob on the back.


Check each driver to make sure all seem to be working.


Also, to be clear, is your volume displayed in Relative Mode, meaning you are cranking it up to +20db over 0.0db and you ears are not bleeding?


Or is your volume displayed in Absolute Mode?
Not sure I fully understand but the volume was at -20db from like -85db
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post #40365 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 11:04 AM
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[quote=Dpforlife;57909918]
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post

Not sure I fully understand but the volume was at -20db from like -85db

Okay. You are on the Relative Mode for volume display. This means that at -20db you are (should) be playing at about 65bd. 85 - 20db = 65db. That is what I would consider to be my minimum listening level for TV watching. I'm about 10ft from speakers to MLP and typically listen to music anywhere between -20 to -10 with occasional blasting above 0.00 for a song or two depending upon my mood and situation.


At what volume level do they start to get too loud for you?


If you are going to experiment with different connections/LFE settings, then be sure to remove the brass bracket on the back of the connection post. In this configuration you will then need to change the speaker crossover in the AVR to Small and I'd start with an 80htz xo. In this case, you will then need to level match the powered drivers. You can use an app off your smart phone if you do not have an SPL meter already. Not ideal, but still useful. Match them to 75db at your LP to start with using the pink noise generator in your Yamaha.


From there run, and rerun, your room correction until you get a trim level of -9 on your Yamaha for the LFE channel by raising the bass volume knob on the back of the BP's. Once you have achieved -9 trim level on your AVR for the LFE channel, then you can bump up the trim to your personal taste post calibration. Since you are on concrete, I'm guessing that will be at least 6db up from -9, landing you at -3db for a final trim level, YMMV.


From the looks of your picture, those front could benefit from being pulled out a bit away from the front wall. This should help expand the sound stage, but not the low frequencies. The side walls being so close will also effect your sound stage and imaging but will require some kind of acoustical treatment to tame. That's another rabbit hole altogether.


I see a subwoofer in that picture. What up with that?

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40366 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 11:32 AM
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[quote=derekmoore;57910376]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpforlife View Post


Okay. You are on the Relative Mode for volume display. This means that at -20db you are (should) be playing at about 65bd. 85 - 20db = 65db. That is what I would consider to be my minimum listening level for TV watching. I'm about 10ft from speakers to MLP and typically listen to music anywhere between -20 to -10 with occasional blasting above 0.00 for a song or two depending upon my mood and situation.


At what volume level do they start to get too loud for you?


If you are going to experiment with different connections/LFE settings, then be sure to remove the brass bracket on the back of the connection post. In this configuration you will then need to change the speaker crossover in the AVR to Small and I'd start with an 80htz xo. In this case, you will then need to level match the powered drivers. You can use an app off your smart phone if you do not have an SPL meter already. Not ideal, but still useful. Match them to 75db at your LP to start with using the pink noise generator in your Yamaha.


From there run, and rerun, your room correction until you get a trim level of -9 on your Yamaha for the LFE channel by raising the bass volume knob on the back of the BP's. Once you have achieved -9 trim level on your AVR for the LFE channel, then you can bump up the trim to your personal taste post calibration. Since you are on concrete, I'm guessing that will be at least 6db up from -9, landing you at -3db for a final trim level, YMMV.


From the looks of your picture, those front could benefit from being pulled out a bit away from the front wall. This should help expand the sound stage, but not the low frequencies. The side walls being so close will also effect your sound stage and imaging but will require some kind of acoustical treatment to tame. That's another rabbit hole altogether.


I see a subwoofer in that picture. What up with that?
I plan on going back the what def tech recommends and not use the LFE option as I do plan on getting a sub soon hopefully, but I will try out what you stated to get an idea of the best sound for my liking, though I am not as experienced with all that great opportunity to learn!

The volume starts to get loud at about -20db. I noticed that when I first connected the 9080's alone with no center or surrounds it was actually louder then when I added everything else, guessing because everything else=more power consumption. I will try to slide the consoles over and pull the speakers out more to see if that helps. I do plan on getting/DYI acoustic panels once I decide on room configuration.

LOL that subwoofer was not connected it was from my Bose Soundbar 700 I had at first before I started building all this, sad part is that actually sounded better in my space then what I have now smh. The Bose wasn't enough bass for me and no option to add more speakers aside from 4 usual, so I started reading and researching.
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post #40367 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 12:12 PM
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[quote=Dpforlife;57910530]
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post

I plan on going back the what def tech recommends and not use the LFE option as I do plan on getting a sub soon hopefully, but I will try out what you stated to get an idea of the best sound for my liking, though I am not as experienced with all that great opportunity to learn!

The volume starts to get loud at about -20db. I noticed that when I first connected the 9080's alone with no center or surrounds it was actually louder then when I added everything else, guessing because everything else=more power consumption. I will try to slide the consoles over and pull the speakers out more to see if that helps. I do plan on getting/DYI acoustic panels once I decide on room configuration.

LOL that subwoofer was not connected it was from my Bose Soundbar 700 I had at first before I started building all this, sad part is that actually sounded better in my space then what I have now smh. The Bose wasn't enough bass for me and no option to add more speakers aside from 4 usual, so I started reading and researching.
65db is not very loud so that sounds about right. In your case, I would try separating the LFE connection and crossing over. This will give you some ability to boost the LF trim independent of upper part of your mains. When the time comes to add a separate sub, then you can go back connecting them as full range with an appropriate xo. If/when that day comes, do yourself a favor and eliminate DT from your sub research. There are much better options at much lower prices.


If you really want to know what is going on, investing $100 in a Umik and time to learn REW will let you see what is happening in your room and how to improve the sound without guessing (i.e. wasting money on other speakers/subs, dsp, etc).

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40368 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 12:41 PM
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[quote=derekmoore;57910792]
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Originally Posted by Dpforlife View Post

65db is not very loud so that sounds about right. In your case, I would try separating the LFE connection and crossing over. This will give you some ability to boost the LF trim independent of upper part of your mains. When the time comes to add a separate sub, then you can go back connecting them as full range with an appropriate xo. If/when that day comes, do yourself a favor and eliminate DT from your sub research. There are much better options at much lower prices.


If you really want to know what is going on, investing $100 in a Umik and time to learn REW will let you see what is happening in your room and how to improve the sound without guessing (i.e. wasting money on other speakers/subs, dsp, etc).
Ok that not being very loud makes sense, I did not turn it up more then -20.0db as I was not sure what it could handle and I did not want to blow anything. Not sure if I fully understand about "separating" the LFE connection but my AVR has 2 sub outs so I connected them separately but I did not adjust anything further then what the YPAO's settings produced. I actually already have a sub picked out, I plan on getting the SVS PB-16 ultra. That should be more then enough for my room as I really do not want to run dual subs.

I will definitely invest in a Umik, I googled it before I started typing this and found a youtube video breaking it down, as I want to know whats going on, I do not enjoy wasting money or taking losses when having to sell something you don't need, I want the optimal settings for my space and I am sure that route can give me way more then YPAO's calibration.
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post #40369 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 02:00 PM
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[quote=Dpforlife;57910946]
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Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post

Ok that not being very loud makes sense, I did not turn it up more then -20.0db as I was not sure what it could handle and I did not want to blow anything. Not sure if I fully understand about "separating" the LFE connection but my AVR has 2 sub outs so I connected them separately but I did not adjust anything further then what the YPAO's settings produced. I actually already have a sub picked out, I plan on getting the SVS PB-16 ultra. That should be more then enough for my room as I really do not want to run dual subs.

I will definitely invest in a Umik, I googled it before I started typing this and found a youtube video breaking it down, as I want to know whats going on, I do not enjoy wasting money or taking losses when having to sell something you don't need, I want the optimal settings for my space and I am sure that route can give me way more then YPAO's calibration.

^ You are on the right track. It is possible you bought more speaker than your room needed. The BP9080 is a big speaker that should provide a very big sound stage with proper space. Low frequencies are a whole other matter that require time, patience, and money to get right. Minimizing the expense is where REW comes into play.


Regarding the PB16 Ultra, I would encourage you to explore alternative options before pulling the trigger on that one. There are reasons it could be the right one for you, but value to SQ/SPL will not be one of the reasons. I'd highly encourage you to seek out opinions from the Sub Forum for alternatives before making that purchase when the time comes. And if you have space for duals, you could get much more bang for buck with duals from another ID co vs SVS pricing for one. There is a cost for that great Customer Bill of Rights.


Please report back your impressions after you have had a chance to play around with recalibrating. Given you have no sub's at present, I suspect you will benefit from splitting the signal and setting the fronts as small in order to give you more flexibility with the low end settings.


That said, given both speakers (read - internal subs) will be placed in the same position relative to the front and back walls, that they will magnify whatever null you are experiencing at the MPL. There is undoubtedly a dip somewhere in the frequency response. REW will let you know where that is and thus how best to tame it.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40370 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 02:10 PM
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[quote=derekmoore;57911396]
^ You are on the right track. It is possible you bought more speaker than your room needed. The BP9080 is a big speaker that should provide a very big sound stage with proper space (you might not have enough volume space to let them shine). Low frequencies are a whole other matter that require time, patience, and money to get right. Minimizing the expense is where REW comes into play.


Regarding the PB16 Ultra, I would encourage you to explore alternative options before pulling the trigger on that one. There are reasons it could be the right one for you (i.e. DSP app), but value to SQ/SPL will not be one of the reasons. I'd highly encourage you to seek out opinions from the Sub Forum for alternative options before making that purchase when the time comes. And if you have space for duals, you could get much more bang for buck with duals from another ID co vs SVS' price for one PB16. There is a cost for that Customer Bill of Rights as great as it is.


Please report back your impressions after you have had a chance to play around with recalibrating. Given you have no sub's at present, I suspect you will benefit from splitting the signal and setting the fronts as small in order to give you more flexibility with the low end settings.


That said, given both speakers (read - internal subs) will be placed in the same position relative to the front and back walls, that will magnify whatever null you are experiencing at the MPL. There is undoubtedly a dip somewhere in the frequency response. REW will let you know where that is and thus how best to tame it.

Not that it should matter much, but it is not necessary to use both Sub Outs in your situation. Both of your "subs" are the same distance to the MLP in relation to your fronts (because they are in the same cabinet), so you can just use one sub out and treat them as one. The second sub out will come into play when you have multiple subs that are not the same distance to your MLP.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40371 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 02:12 PM
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^
apologies for the duplicate post.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40372 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 02:38 PM
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[quote=derekmoore;57911448]
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Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post


^ You are on the right track. It is possible you bought more speaker than your room needed. The BP9080 is a big speaker that should provide a very big sound stage with proper space (you might not have enough volume space to let them shine). Low frequencies are a whole other matter that require time, patience, and money to get right. Minimizing the expense is where REW comes into play.


Regarding the PB16 Ultra, I would encourage you to explore alternative options before pulling the trigger on that one. There are reasons it could be the right one for you (i.e. DSP app), but value to SQ/SPL will not be one of the reasons. I'd highly encourage you to seek out opinions from the Sub Forum for alternative options before making that purchase when the time comes. And if you have space for duals, you could get much more bang for buck with duals from another ID co vs SVS' price for one PB16. There is a cost for that Customer Bill of Rights as great as it is.


Please report back your impressions after you have had a chance to play around with recalibrating. Given you have no sub's at present, I suspect you will benefit from splitting the signal and setting the fronts as small in order to give you more flexibility with the low end settings.


That said, given both speakers (read - internal subs) will be placed in the same position relative to the front and back walls, that will magnify whatever null you are experiencing at the MPL. There is undoubtedly a dip somewhere in the frequency response. REW will let you know where that is and thus how best to tame it.

Not that it should matter much, but it is not necessary to use both Sub Outs in your situation. Both of your "subs" are the same distance to the MLP in relation to your fronts (because they are in the same cabinet), so you can just use one sub out and treat them as one. The second sub out will come into play when you have multiple subs that are not the same distance to your MLP.
I probably did buy more then I needed as I have a tendency to go overboard at times, definitely regret the D7's as I am sure a pair of SR9080's would have done a better job as surrounds but I got such a great deal on each piece at different times all brand new except the BP9060's I couldn't really pass everything up. Thanks for the info on the sub I will definitely explore other options as I am having a hard time with $2499 for a sub which is another reason I have not pulled the trigger. I definitely have the space for dual's but I am in the process of making the room into a home theater and before I build my riser and change carpet etc I want to have the sweet spots marked so I can run all the wires to the appropriate spots. I like to hear speakers in person first because sound is subjective and I am a bass addict, I love the rumble of low bass notes and I have not found a store that carries SVS subs in my area. I heard the Klipsch R-115W but that is all so far. I will check out the Sub form for other alternatives.

OK so I need to get a Y adapter to run both from the same channel, great I will grab one and try that this weekend. I'm ordering a Umik-1 and I see that the REW software is free so I will read-up while I wait for delivery and I will definitely report back what I find. Thanks again for all your help!!
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Last edited by Dpforlife; 04-16-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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post #40373 of 40675 Old 04-16-2019, 07:54 PM
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Just looking for some opinions here...I have the BP9020s and a CS9040 for my LCR. Plan to upgrade my rears to Def Techs and want to add the A90 Atmos modules. I am looking for opinions on what receiver to get to push them. Currently I have an 8 year old Pioneer VSX-1121. I dont see myself expanding beyond 5.1.2, nor using extra zone capabilities. I have been looking at the Denon AVR-X3500h for quite a while, but I have given thought to the Pioneer Elite SC-LX503 and the Yamaha V2085 (basically an A2080 in disguise). The Denon and the Pioneer are the cheapest, which is appealing, but I want another receiver that lasts 8 years, so I am wondering about your experiences and opinions to help me pick. Thanks in advance.
I would recommend going with Denon. I just switched from a SC-95 Pioneer Elite to a Denon 4500. As far as processing it was a lateral move, but as for flexibility and performance it was a big step up IMO. Of the 3 you mentioned above I feel the Denon’s room correction is the best and I’ve used all 3 of the above. Denon also allows you to set crossovers by each speaker separately. My pioneer would only allow one blanket crossover. HEOS app is pretty handy as well. I’m not knocking Pioneer or Yamaha because I’ve liked the ones I’ve owned, but I feel Denon is best bang for your buck right now. Plus there made by the same parent company as Def Tech(Sound United). Maybe that counts for something. Lol.

On a side note I would, if you can afford it go with an AVR that processes more than 5.2. I started with 5.2 a few years ago and now 3 AVR’s later I’m at 7.4...and to tell you the truth I’m chomping at the bit to go 9.6. Not saying this itch happens to everyone, but it does happen often. Especially if you hang out on this forum too much. 😬
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post #40374 of 40675 Old 04-17-2019, 06:18 AM
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[QUOTE=Dpforlife;57911618][quote=derekmoore;57911448]
I like to hear speakers in person first because sound is subjective and I am a bass addict, I love the rumble of low bass notes and I have not found a store that carries SVS subs in my area. I heard the Klipsch R-115W but that is all so far. I will check out the Sub form for other alternatives.[quote]

The best value on subs will come from the internet direct companies so it can be difficult to hear them in person first. Depending upon where you live, you could visit the mfgr's directly or look for owners that are willing to demo their subs. There is a sticky post on the sub forum for just that purpose.


The primary ones to consider in your budget would be (in no particular order): Hsu, Rythmik, PSA and maybe one or two others. Two FV15Hps from Rythmik would run you just a bit over $2500.00 with the multi sub discount and be a tough choice to beat in your size room.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40375 of 40675 Old 04-18-2019, 10:48 AM
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[quote=derekmoore;57914194][QUOTE=Dpforlife;57911618][quote=derekmoore;57911448]
I like to hear speakers in person first because sound is subjective and I am a bass addict, I love the rumble of low bass notes and I have not found a store that carries SVS subs in my area. I heard the Klipsch R-115W but that is all so far. I will check out the Sub form for other alternatives.
Quote:

The best value on subs will come from the internet direct companies so it can be difficult to hear them in person first. Depending upon where you live, you could visit the mfgr's directly or look for owners that are willing to demo their subs. There is a sticky post on the sub forum for just that purpose.


The primary ones to consider in your budget would be (in no particular order): Hsu, Rythmik, PSA and maybe one or two others. Two FV15Hps from Rythmik would run you just a bit over $2500.00 with the multi sub discount and be a tough choice to beat in your size room.
Thanks for the info I have been reading a lot in the Subwoofer forms currently researching the Power Sound Audio V3611, Rythmik FV25HP Direct Servo and the PB-16 Ultra
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post #40376 of 40675 Old 04-18-2019, 01:01 PM
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[quote=Dpforlife;57909664]
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Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post

Thank you both for the info I will give your recommendations a try this weekend, last night I tried connecting LFE on the back of the speaker to the receiver and after running YPAO it didn’t recognize both, .

Looks like my nightmare room that used to have some DefTech's and one of my speaker placement tries, As a start I would turn yapo off for now, mover the speakers away from the sidewalls leaving a foot to a foot and half space between the side walls and the speakers and move them about three feet from the back wall. I found placing mine so close to the sides led to a huge bass suck out.


Also I had the habit of turning the speaker knob to raise the bass level, sometimes I found this added to the suck out, often actually due to the side walls being so close, I found the perfect balance of full sound by raising the master volume and lowering the speaker bass knob (that actually resulted in much fuller, louder balanced bass due to standing wave city) Also run on pure speaker wire while doing these tests, the LFE works best as icing on the cake once you figure out placement.



If this gets you close then it just a matter of fine tuning and playing with yapo to see if it improves anything.



Main point, get the mains sounding their best through placement and the speaker bass knob before messing with yapo tone controls and all that. save that for the tweaking, otherwise it's very hard to figure out which element is the issue, by turning off yapo and making everything flat you only have a few variables to mess with , placement and the bass knob.



Toe them in and out also while testing
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post #40377 of 40675 Old 04-19-2019, 04:53 AM
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Hey guys, I did purchase the DefTech 9080x along with the CS9080 for the center. Surrounds are 2xSR9080 and 2xSR9040. I'm going in for a 7.1.4 set up all being run by a Marantz 8012.

Should I get a separate power amp for the LCR or just the L and R? Or do you guys think the Marantz 8012 will be able to run them just fine?

My room is 35ft in length and 18ft in width that opens into the dining on to the left as shown below. However my seating position is around 15 ft from the TV/HT set up.

From the picture below
2- L, R - BP9080x
3 - CS9080
4 - Sub McIntosh SL1
5 - 2xSR9080
6 - 2xSR9040
7 - 2xMicca 8C for Atmos
8 - 2xMicca 8C for Atmos

Suggestions are welcome. I have to take a call soon because securing most of the HT equipment takes a long time here in India.
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post #40378 of 40675 Old 04-19-2019, 12:40 PM
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Hey guys, I did purchase the DefTech 9080x along with the CS9080 for the center. Surrounds are 2xSR9080 and 2xSR9040. I'm going in for a 7.1.4 set up all being run by a Marantz 8012.



Should I get a separate power amp for the LCR or just the L and R? Or do you guys think the Marantz 8012 will be able to run them just fine?



My room is 35ft in length and 18ft in width that opens into the dining on to the left as shown below. However my seating position is around 15 ft from the TV/HT set up.



From the picture below

2- L, R - BP9080x

3 - CS9080

4 - Sub McIntosh SL1

5 - 2xSR9080

6 - 2xSR9040

7 - 2xMicca 8C for Atmos

8 - 2xMicca 8C for Atmos



Suggestions are welcome. I have to take a call soon because securing most of the HT equipment takes a long time here in India.
For most living room applications with typical movie watching at reasonably loud volumes (-10 or lower volume), the AVR is more than capable of powering a system the way it was intended to with the number of channels needed. At least if you have a good AVR like you do. You should still consider it just to offload it and exert less heat from the AVR.

If you have an actual theater room and will be close or at reference level, you will likely want and need separate amps to give them real power anyway.

Or if you're going to be pumping them with music to fill the entire room or whatnot (and not just the couch area), you will likely benefit from the extra power.

Sony XBR-77A9G / Panasonic DP-UB9000 / Marantz SR7011 / Def Tech 9060 Series
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post #40379 of 40675 Old 04-19-2019, 01:12 PM
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Hello All,

New here and new to all this so please be patient with me lol anywho I just recently started building my system for my dedicated home theater. I just purchased a Yamaha RX-A3080, Def Tech BP9080x, CS9060, BP9060 and D7's. I ran YPAO to configure everything but I am not totally impressed, I went to best buy and listened to the Def Tech BP9080's before I bought them and they sounded amazing at the store but not so much in my home theater. To get a decent listening volume I have to turn the receiver up to 20db, The room is 15X21, I am still within my 30 day return period and was eyeing the SVS Prime Ultras as a replacement. Can anyone provide a way to properly configure the Def Techs before I return them? Thanks in advance
Are you saying you turned it all the way up to +20dB or did you mean -20dB? I listen at -20dB a lot of the time and it is a good volume imo, 0dB is very loud but fun sometimes, and +20dB should be pretty much deafeningly loud. If you don't get a decent listening volume until +20dB something is wrong, maybe with the AVR or the connections or the calibration or who knows.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| LG OLED65C8P | Pioneer VSX-LX503 | Def Tech BP9040 + CS9040 + A90 + SR9080 | Klipsch R-112SW |

Last edited by godfatherip; 04-19-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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post #40380 of 40675 Old 04-19-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sweetvar26 View Post
Hey guys, I did purchase the DefTech 9080x along with the CS9080 for the center. Surrounds are 2xSR9080 and 2xSR9040. I'm going in for a 7.1.4 set up all being run by a Marantz 8012.

Should I get a separate power amp for the LCR or just the L and R? Or do you guys think the Marantz 8012 will be able to run them just fine?
I think the Marantz should be just fine powering them. They have pretty high sensitivity and the 8012 is a pretty powerful AVR. I have the 9040s and an LX503 AVR and they get excessively loud if I crank it up (although it is a smaller room). Also it should be pretty easy to add a power amp later if you decide you really want to crank up the volume so I'd say go without the amp initially and see what you think.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| LG OLED65C8P | Pioneer VSX-LX503 | Def Tech BP9040 + CS9040 + A90 + SR9080 | Klipsch R-112SW |
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