Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1352 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40531 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Hello all - long time stalker, first time poster (I apologize for any etiquette mistakes)

I'm very slowly building a 5.1 system - currently have a Yamaha RX-V683 driving cheap LR and a Procenter 1000 with a Klipsch R-12 Sub. I'm looking to upgrade the LR and push them to surrounds (to upgrade later). I primarily use the system for TV/Movies (80%), but when the wife is away I love turning up music for the large open space (1 open room, about 50x50x8ft ceilings, I recognize I need a much bigger system to effectively play music here, but not an option for budget)

I've had my eyes on Promonitor 1000 as LR to match with the Procenter, but lately have been considering using Mythos Nines. WAF and budget are both factors - which is why the 1000s are appealing. That being said, the Nine's should pass WAF and I'm hoping they bring significant quality/sound improvements over the 1000s for the money. Which is why I'm here - what are your thoughts?
1. Would the Nines pair well with the procenter (timbre matching wise)?
2. Would I notice significant difference between the PM1000 and Nines to justify 4x the price (they spec similar, but the Nine's cost more for some reason, right?)?
3. Are there other options I should consider if I have a max budget of about $1000?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing from you all!

1) Yes. All Def Tech speakers use the same tweeter, so all are timber matched throughout the years/models.
2) Probably not.
3) Yes.


Since you have a large open room, the BP tower models would be excellent choices for your goal of room filling music. The bigger the better given the size of your room. I realize bigger has an inverse relationship with WAF, but they tend to get over the size after time, especially if they appreciate good sounding music. Mine absolutely hated the idea of tower speakers and subs in the great room. But after cycling though the PM10000 w/ the Procenter 2000, then the SM65's, before the BP9040's she now understands and I don't think she would be willing to go back. The BP design really makes a huge impact when moving about and not just listening in one position.


Depending upon where you live, the used market (and Def Tech referb on ebay) often have good deals to be found if you are patient. I've seen the big boys of past, i.e. BP2000/2, BP7000/2, BP3000's all up for sale for less than your budget on Craigslist a different times. As a point of reference, I scored my 9040's for under 1K on the referb ebay site. Although I have not seen them for less than $1350 since.


If not willing to go used, nor willing to fight the WAF battle for towers, then perhaps you might be able to find a pair of SM55's or SM65's which would be huge upgrades over the PM1000's. They are discontinued but I think you might still find a new pair on line somewhere if you look. You will also likely want stands for the SM series so factor that into your budget.


EDIT: Here is a pair up for sale on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Definitive-...YAAOSwW4ddIiHS

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5

Last edited by derekmoore; 07-10-2019 at 07:31 AM.
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post #40532 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 07:45 AM
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I have a chance at a mint pair of Def Tech BP8060st for $500, seems like a good deal to me, hoping I can snag them.
That's a good deals, I'm selling my whole def tech set up and I have the bp8060st but for more mostly because there like new and they still have Def Tech warranty. Hope you are able to get them!

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post #40533 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by weekendtoy View Post
My Marantz receiver has a setting that is supposed to reduce LFE soundwaves traveling through the walls. It's available through the various Audyssey's settings.



Sorry to hear about your current situation, apartment living can't be very conducive to home theater.
Thank you, I think I am aming towards a marantz processor for my seperates. I'll have 2 years to save and what ever I sell I'll save and put it towards my new AV seperates.

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post #40534 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post
1) Yes. All Def Tech speakers use the same tweeter, so all are timber matched throughout the years/models.
2) Probably not.
3) Yes.


Since you have a large open room, the BP tower models would be excellent choices for your goal of room filling music. The bigger the better given the size of your room. I realize bigger has an inverse relationship with WAF, but they tend to get over the size after time, especially if they appreciate good sounding music. Mine absolutely hated the idea of tower speakers and subs in the great room. But after cycling though the PM10000 w/ the Procenter 2000, then the SM65's, before the BP9040's she now understands and I don't think she would be willing to go back. The BP design really makes a huge impact when moving about and not just listening in one position.


Depending upon where you live, the used market (and Def Tech referb on ebay) often have good deals to be found if you are patient. I've seen the big boys of past, i.e. BP2000/2, BP7000/2, BP3000's all up for sale for less than your budget on Craigslist a different times. As a point of reference, I scored my 9040's for under 1K on the referb ebay site. Although I have not seen them for less than $1350 since.


If not willing to go used, nor willing to fight the WAF battle for towers, then perhaps you might be able to find a pair of SM55's or SM65's which would be huge upgrades over the PM1000's. They are discontinued but I think you might still find a new pair on line somewhere if you look. You will also likely want stands for the SM series so factor that into your budget.


EDIT: Here is a pair up for sale on ebay.*link removed because I'm a noob*
Thanks for the reply! I appreciate the info - it's really good to hear that I can pretty much mix and match Def Tech stuff - I really like the Procenter and I like how each of their products spec out. Unfortunately, part of the WAF is wall mounted and thin, so towers are all out (believe me, I've asked multiple times...)

With towers/larger bookshelf speakers being out, and wanting to keep my procenter for budget reasons, would you recommend the Nines or PM1000s? I feel like the extra drivers in the Nines over the PM1000s would help, and they appear to have a little better quality, and I really like how they look. If you were in my situation and had to choose between the two, which way would you go?

Thanks again for your thoughts!
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post #40535 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Thanks for the reply! I appreciate the info - it's really good to hear that I can pretty much mix and match Def Tech stuff - I really like the Procenter and I like how each of their products spec out. Unfortunately, part of the WAF is wall mounted and thin, so towers are all out (believe me, I've asked multiple times...)

With towers/larger bookshelf speakers being out, and wanting to keep my procenter for budget reasons, would you recommend the Nines or PM1000s? I feel like the extra drivers in the Nines over the PM1000s would help, and they appear to have a little better quality, and I really like how they look. If you were in my situation and had to choose between the two, which way would you go?

Thanks again for your thoughts!
Considering the PM1000 will be much cheaper upfront, and you will likely be able to get most of your money back (especially if you buy used) when the time comes to sell them, I'd go that route first.


FYI, Def Tech is known to be very generous with their speaker spec's. I have not measured my PM1000's with REW, but I know Audyessy sets them at 80htz. So their actual -F3 point is in the 70htz range with their 5 1/4" driver. I highly doubt the M9's dig down any further despite the stated 38htz on their website. Notice they don't make any claims about how far down these speakers are at 38htz. Generally speaking smaller driver = less performance on the low end unless there is a bunch of DSP involved.


IMO, the primary advantage the entire Mythos line has over the other lines relates to WAF. Small and slim cabinets. These are not good physical traits for sound reproduction, rather they are a compromise to it. And an expensive one at that.


So I'd save the money and get some PM1000's used. From there save money, time and build honey-do equity until you can win the negotiation for towers down the road.

5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40536 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Thanks for the reply! I appreciate the info - it's really good to hear that I can pretty much mix and match Def Tech stuff - I really like the Procenter and I like how each of their products spec out. Unfortunately, part of the WAF is wall mounted and thin, so towers are all out (believe me, I've asked multiple times...)

With towers/larger bookshelf speakers being out, and wanting to keep my procenter for budget reasons, would you recommend the Nines or PM1000s? I feel like the extra drivers in the Nines over the PM1000s would help, and they appear to have a little better quality, and I really like how they look. If you were in my situation and had to choose between the two, which way would you go?

Thanks again for your thoughts!
What about the clr2500's.. would they fit in with your WAF?

They would definitely sound better the either of the two options you're currently looking at.
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post #40537 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 11:19 AM
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Thanks for the input - I doubt the CLR 2500 will win WAF. It's a bit too bulky to place/hide anywhere.

I see your point about the M9's - I have heard Def Tech is generous with specs and didn't really expect those figures, I just wanted to hear if the M9's would have superior quality over the PM1000s. I'll continue with my original plans for the PM1000s and save the rest of the money for future upgrades. Thanks for the help!
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post #40538 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Thanks for the input - I doubt the CLR 2500 will win WAF. It's a bit too bulky to place/hide anywhere.

I see your point about the M9's - I have heard Def Tech is generous with specs and didn't really expect those figures, I just wanted to hear if the M9's would have superior quality over the PM1000s. I'll continue with my original plans for the PM1000s and save the rest of the money for future upgrades. Thanks for the help!
Ok...one more suggestion and I'll leave you to it.
You might try seeing if a set of Studiomonitor 350's or better yet if they fit the 450's...
These are really great sounding small bookshelves.

I use the 450's as my Atmos speakers mounted to the ceiling.
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post #40539 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by engineer0928 View Post
Thanks for the input - I doubt the CLR 2500 will win WAF. It's a bit too bulky to place/hide anywhere.

I see your point about the M9's - I have heard Def Tech is generous with specs and didn't really expect those figures, I just wanted to hear if the M9's would have superior quality over the PM1000s. I'll continue with my original plans for the PM1000s and save the rest of the money for future upgrades. Thanks for the help!
Keep in mind, while timber matching is a real thing, many do not believe it is all that important. I suspect so long as your tweeter types are not too disparate, you could get away with different speakers. Other dome tweeters should work okay in this case. So you could consider opening up your options to other brands by posting the question in the speaker forums.


Another thought, since you have a 1K budget, get the PM1000's and upgrade you center to the PC2000 at the same time. It uses the same 5 1/4" drivers as the PM1000's. All of them will still be under your 1K budget.


I ran this as my front stage for about a year before getting the upgrade itch.

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post #40540 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post
Keep in mind, while timber matching is a real thing, many do not believe it is all that important. I suspect so long as your tweeter types are not too disparate, you could get away with different speakers. Other dome tweeters should work okay in this case. So you could consider opening up your options to other brands by posting the question in the speaker forums.


Another thought, since you have a 1K budget, get the PM1000's and upgrade you center to the PC2000 at the same time. It uses the same 5 1/4" drivers as the PM1000's. All of them will still be under your 1K budget.


I ran this as my front stage for about a year before getting the upgrade itch.
For sure go with the PC2000 as the center.

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post #40541 of 40599 Old 07-10-2019, 01:25 PM
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I'll check out the 350's and see if the wife approves - they do look nice on first glance.

I'm kicking myself now about the PC1000. My mom asked what I wanted for Christmas and I threw that at her (the 1000 was on a good deal and I was SURE she would never get it for me). Sure enough, my mom got that as me and my wife's present (the wife was NOT happy about getting a speaker for Christmas, hence the NEED for WAF approved). I was going to get the 2000 just after Christmas until that happened.

As far as timbre matching, I'm currently using Polk OWM3's as my mains because they were ridiculously cheap and had WAF when I first bought my receiver. As much as I'm craving an upgrade, I still enjoy movies and don't really notice much of a difference - I kind of suspected with higher quality speakers the timbre matching would be more important. Maybe I'm just not that picky!
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post #40542 of 40599 Old 07-11-2019, 04:42 AM
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One more follow up - how about 2 Mythos Ten's for L/R? This would have 2 x 5.25 drivers and has same relative appearance as the Nines. Would this be a big enough improvement over the PM1000s?
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post #40543 of 40599 Old 07-11-2019, 06:09 AM
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One more follow up - how about 2 Mythos Ten's for L/R? This would have 2 x 5.25 drivers and has same relative appearance as the Nines. Would this be a big enough improvement over the PM1000s?

Are you referring to the Towers or the Center Speaker in the Ten's?


Here is a review from Sound and Vision on both. https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...r-measurements


While I don't have any experience with either, the center does not appear to be a good candidate as L/R speakers based upon this review. The CLR series of center speakers from DT were designed to be use either way, but they are much larger than your WAF will allow.


Also, these will come in well over your 1K budget unless you can find them used.

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post #40544 of 40599 Old 07-11-2019, 09:43 AM
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Are you referring to the Towers or the Center Speaker in the Ten's?
They were advertised as able to be LR or center, but I do see most people using them as center. They spec out to be an ok size, mostly because they wall mount and only protrude about 4 inches from the wall. I see your point from the review that they might not be ideal off-axis. Thanks for finding that!

All of this won't be happening for a while, so I've got plenty of time to consider, but you've definitely given me plenty of food for thought. Thanks!
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Hey friends! Hoping to get some advice on my setup.

I currently have a 5.1 setup in my apartment's (very spacious) living room.

I have ProMonitor 800s as the fronts, ProCenter 1000 as the center, ProMonitor 600s for surrounds, and a ProSub 800 as my subwoofer.

The receiver is a Pioneer VSX-1021-K.

I have the subwoofer positioned by the couch, rather than by the TV. This lets me avoid turning the bass up too high so the neighbors don't get angry.

Recently, I found a pair of BP10 floor-standing speakers for sale for $200, which got me thinking...
  • Would it be worth shifting the ProMonitor 800s over to surround, and buying those BP10s for the front?
  • Do the BP10s even timbre match with the ProCinema series?
  • Would my receiver be able to handle the BP10s?
  • Or would I be better off upgrading some other part of my setup first?
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post #40546 of 40599 Old 07-12-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ankushg View Post
Hey friends! Hoping to get some advice on my setup.

I currently have a 5.1 setup in my apartment's (very spacious) living room.

I have ProMonitor 800s as the fronts, ProCenter 1000 as the center, ProMonitor 600s for surrounds, and a ProSub 800 as my subwoofer.

The receiver is a Pioneer VSX-1021-K.

I have the subwoofer positioned by the couch, rather than by the TV. This lets me avoid turning the bass up too high so the neighbors don't get angry.

Recently, I found a pair of BP10 floor-standing speakers for sale for $200, which got me thinking...
  • Would it be worth shifting the ProMonitor 800s over to surround, and buying those BP10s for the front?
  • Do the BP10s even timbre match with the ProCinema series?
  • Would my receiver be able to handle the BP10s?
  • Or would I be better off upgrading some other part of my setup first?
$200 seems like a cant loose deal. I'd go for it. Seems these speakers measured pretty well according to this review. http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/d...-bp-10-70.html


Yes all Def Tech speakers are timber matched from model to model, year to year.


There should be no issues with your receiver.
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post #40547 of 40599 Old 07-12-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ankushg View Post
Hey friends! Hoping to get some advice on my setup.

I currently have a 5.1 setup in my apartment's (very spacious) living room.

I have ProMonitor 800s as the fronts, ProCenter 1000 as the center, ProMonitor 600s for surrounds, and a ProSub 800 as my subwoofer.

The receiver is a Pioneer VSX-1021-K.

I have the subwoofer positioned by the couch, rather than by the TV. This lets me avoid turning the bass up too high so the neighbors don't get angry.

Recently, I found a pair of BP10 floor-standing speakers for sale for $200, which got me thinking...
  • Would it be worth shifting the ProMonitor 800s over to surround, and buying those BP10s for the front?
  • Do the BP10s even timbre match with the ProCinema series?
  • Would my receiver be able to handle the BP10s?
  • Or would I be better off upgrading some other part of my setup first?
$200 seems like a cant loose deal. I'd go for it. Seems these speakers measured pretty well according to this review. http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/d...-bp-10-70.html


Yes all Def Tech speakers are timber matched from model to model, year to year.


There should be no issues with your receiver.
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post #40548 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 04:45 AM
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This could be an awful idea, but that's why I'm here. My wife and I just moved into a house and the previous owners left a Bose Acoustimass 5 system that they used. They have the FL,FR,RL,RR mounted about at 8ft or so in 4 corners of the room and I'm wondering if I can use these as a pseudo atmos height channel by aiming then downward?

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post #40549 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 07:44 AM
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This could be an awful idea, but that's why I'm here. My wife and I just moved into a house and the previous owners left a Bose Acoustimass 5 system that they used. They have the FL,FR,RL,RR mounted about at 8ft or so in 4 corners of the room and I'm wondering if I can use these as a pseudo atmos height channel by aiming then downward?
In theory, you can. Just connect their wires into the appropriate connectors on the AVR. Of course, whether that's a good idea depends on how good those speakers actually are (I have no idea) and if they will give you the sound performance you want/need.
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I think that the crossovers or brains for those little cubes reside inside the Acousimass bass module. So you may or may not need to use it as well.
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post #40551 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
I think that the crossovers or brains for those little cubes reside inside the Acousimass bass module. So you may or may not need to use it as well.


Yes, it appears the brain does. I did find a manual in a drawer I’ll have to read through but I do see a section that outlines how to use it in conjunction with an AVR. I think I have some tinkering around to do.


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post #40552 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 11:01 AM
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I think that the crossovers or brains for those little cubes reside inside the Acousimass bass module. So you may or may not need to use it as well.
The crossover is located inside of the "bass module". The wires are a bundle package that run into the "module" as one, then out of the Acoustimass to the individual satellites. So there are couple of potential problems here.


1) Does the wire from the corner placed satellites run where the OP needs them to connect to his AVR? It is probable the original set up ran the wires to where the "bass module" was located which may or may not be near where the OP's AVR will be.


2) As pointed out above, these satellites are crossed over at a level Bose does not care to admit to. I would be willing to belive it is well above 120 htz. Probably well above 150htz or more. Possibly much, much more.


3) I'm not an Atmos, nor movie guy, but I'm not sure the corner placement is part of the Dolby recommended placement template. Not that you could not reroute the wire to a better placement, but they are very light gauge wire FWIW.


4) Again, I'm not an Atmos guy so I don't know how low of content is channeled to it, but I'd bet there is some content lower than 150htz, which you would be missing out on.


From what I understand about Atmos, in a 5.x.2 system, you would want those heights directly above you vs front corners, no?

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post #40553 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post
The crossover is located inside of the "bass module". The wires are a bundle package that run into the "module" as one, then out of the Acoustimass to the individual satellites. So there are couple of potential problems here.


1) Does the wire from the corner placed satellites run where the OP needs them to connect to his AVR? It is probable the original set up ran the wires to where the "bass module" was located which may or may not be near where the OP's AVR will be.


2) As pointed out above, these satellites are crossed over at a level Bose does not care to admit to. I would be willing to belive it is well above 120 htz. Probably well above 150htz or more. Possibly much, much more.


3) I'm not an Atmos, nor movie guy, but I'm not sure the corner placement is part of the Dolby recommended placement template. Not that you could not reroute the wire to a better placement, but they are very light gauge wire FWIW.


4) Again, I'm not an Atmos guy so I don't know how low of content is channeled to it, but I'd bet there is some content lower than 150htz, which you would be missing out on.


From what I understand about Atmos, in a 5.x.2 system, you would want those heights directly above you vs front corners, no?
You are correct. In a 5.X.2 Atmos setup, it's generally recommended to use a Top Middle alignment (+/- degrees) anyway.

Also a good point about the extension of them. Dolby actually recommends full range for every speaker (including heights), and if you have Bass Management, they recommend at least down to 80-90hz for surrounds and down to 100hz for ceilings.

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post #40554 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 11:42 AM
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I'm sure for Atmos they are in the wrong spot but, itll get you going for the meantime.

And yes...Atmos are full frequency channels. In my 7.3.4 theater I use DT Studiomonitor 450's and crossover them a 70hz sometimes 60hz...

For Atmos in a 7.x.4 setup you'll want them just install the left and right mains and just ahead of you and just behind you...on the ceiling.

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post #40555 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmoore View Post
The crossover is located inside of the "bass module". The wires are a bundle package that run into the "module" as one, then out of the Acoustimass to the individual satellites. So there are couple of potential problems here.


1) Does the wire from the corner placed satellites run where the OP needs them to connect to his AVR? It is probable the original set up ran the wires to where the "bass module" was located which may or may not be near where the OP's AVR will be.
- Not currently. The wires would be re-run during a remodel of the area.

2) As pointed out above, these satellites are crossed over at a level Bose does not care to admit to. I would be willing to belive it is well above 120 htz. Probably well above 150htz or more. Possibly much, much more.
- I'll have to try plugging them into my Onkyo and messing with the crossover to see if they'll sound any good like that as well as running the Onkyo to the Acoustimass brain to the speakers.

3) I'm not an Atmos, nor movie guy, but I'm not sure the corner placement is part of the Dolby recommended placement template. Not that you could not reroute the wire to a better placement, but they are very light gauge wire FWIW.
- Yeah, I think I recall it being right above you more or less. Definitely not corners though.


4) Again, I'm not an Atmos guy so I don't know how low of content is channeled to it, but I'd bet there is some content lower than 150htz, which you would be missing out on.


From what I understand about Atmos, in a 5.x.2 system, you would want those heights directly above you vs front corners, no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
I'm sure for Atmos they are in the wrong spot but, itll get you going for the meantime.

And yes...Atmos are full frequency channels. In my 7.3.4 theater I use DT Studiomonitor 450's and crossover them a 70hz sometimes 60hz...

For Atmos in a 7.x.4 setup you'll want them just install the left and right mains and just ahead of you and just behind you...on the ceiling.
The ceiling situation in the room doesn't help either. From the seating position I have a ceiling above, but where the TV is the ceiling goes up to about 16ft. Love the new house but had to compromise on my home theater setup.

Edit. Re-thinking things, may try to opt just to do it right and have my contractor wire in at least rear heights in the ceiling for Atmos. Then sell the Bose to try and recoup some of the costs.

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post #40556 of 40599 Old 07-16-2019, 09:31 PM
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might be buying a set but am still lost in the speaker world. Your setups look great. Do you all love them or looking to move on later?
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post #40557 of 40599 Old 07-17-2019, 03:51 AM
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might be buying a set but am still lost in the speaker world. Your setups look great. Do you all love them or looking to move on later?

Gonna need a little more information than that, but yes, generally, we're mostly all DT fanboy/girl geeks.
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post #40558 of 40599 Old 07-17-2019, 06:52 AM
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might be buying a set but am still lost in the speaker world. Your setups look great. Do you all love them or looking to move on later?
Def Tech makes good stuff but their current catalog is overpriced IMO and after owning a number of DT pieces I've moved on and am more satisfied with other gear. Their older stuff can offer some of the best value out there, such as the CLR centers/Studiomonitor bookshelves/BP line of towers, and I don't hesitate to recommend them but if you're looking new the same performance or better for notably less money is easy to find.
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post #40559 of 40599 Old 07-17-2019, 08:50 AM
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^ Agreed.


BTW, I finally scored a CLR 2002 to appease my wife's desire to down size from the CLR 2000.


I will be posting it (the 2000) for sale in the classified probably next week sometime.


If anyone is interested before then feel free to send me a PM.
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5.1: Power - Denon 4308ci, Fronts - Def Tech BP9040's, Center - Def Tech CLR 2000, Surrounds - Def Tech PM1000's, Sub's - Rythmik E15HP x2, Display - Panasonic TC-55AS530U, TT - Rega Planar 2 w/ Dynavector 10x5
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post #40560 of 40599 Old 07-17-2019, 09:19 AM
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I've like the older DT stuff as well.
I'm currently just using DT's for surrounds and Atmos.
But it looks like the surround big BPXV's and P's are on borrowed time tho. I purchased 4 Vandersteen VSM's that will be replacing them.

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