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-   -   Definitive Owners Thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/625807-definitive-owners-thread.html)

Sunbringer 09-26-2019 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbz06 (Post 58609362)
As a starting point, if you have no separate subwoofer, then set the towers to Large and subwoofer to "on" or "yes" so the LFE can be sent through the LFE line from the AVR sub pre-out. You can test with small and a manual crossover but it's all going to the same speaker and you would be complicating it.



Keep the center as speaker wire connection only and small with crossover at 80hz.

Thank you! I will start with that and try my way forward. What track or scene would be a good reference for trying out different crossovers and bass settings?

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jcavila 09-28-2019 10:24 AM

Does anyone know what size the threads are on Super Cubes? I'm trying to buy a set of spikes for my sub. Thanks.

Entelechy 09-30-2019 06:00 PM

BP-7006, BP-7004, BP-7002 built-in sub hum
 
Posted this elsewhere, but thought here might help more of those affected. Just wanted to help anyone having problems with their BP-7002, BP-7004, or BP-7006 emitting a humming sound from the subwoofer. I found a youtube where an electrician in Columbia diagnosed and fixed the hum from the subwoofer that can develop in these powered towers. I was skeptical that I'd be able to fix the speaker, but I did. Basically, you replace four capacitors on the circuit board of the amp, put the amp module back in and the hum is gone. The video is in Spanish, but it is now subtitled. Also, be sure to read the youtube comments, which are helpful as well. I am not responsible for your repairs. You will need a fine cone tipped solder iron. Also, be sure to replace the zip-tie, otherwise some wires may bang against a passive radiator.

Here is the youtube:



Here's a link to the replacement capacitors (under $10):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hope this helps some of you! Good luck

rr330i 10-07-2019 11:41 AM

I just came to this thread to post about the hum now coming from one of my 7002s, and found this as the last post here.
:D

can you repost the amazon link, it's not working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entelechy (Post 58627440)
Posted this elsewhere, but thought here might help more of those affected. Just wanted to help anyone having problems with their BP-7002, BP-7004, or BP-7006 emitting a humming sound from the subwoofer. I found a youtube where an electrician in Columbia diagnosed and fixed the hum from the subwoofer that can develop in these powered towers. I was skeptical that I'd be able to fix the speaker, but I did. Basically, you replace four capacitors on the circuit board of the amp, put the amp module back in and the hum is gone. The video is in Spanish, but it is now subtitled. Also, be sure to read the youtube comments, which are helpful as well. I am not responsible for your repairs. You will need a fine cone tipped solder iron. Also, be sure to replace the zip-tie, otherwise some wires may bang against a passive radiator.

Here is the youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RofI8tilpeM&t=16s


Here's a link to the replacement capacitors (under $10):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hope this helps some of you! Good luck


Entelechy 10-07-2019 10:04 PM

Good luck with those 7002's.

Not sure what happened to Amazon link, but let's try this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Let us know how it goes.

AlexBPM 10-09-2019 05:14 PM

Has anyone had any success using Dirac in conjunction with Def Tech bipolar towers? I used Audyssey MultEQXT years ago and disliked what it did to my BP2000TL’s. Recently I used ARC on an Anthem AVM 60 and did care for the results either. I’m wondering if the added reflections of the Bipolar design was to blame for the unpleasant results.

I’m considering purchasing a minidsp with Dirac to experiment. I’ve even considered covering the drivers on the rear of the speaker with Ultratouch or placing acoustic panels behind the towers to tame the reflections in an attempt to get better results. Which I know defies the purpose of owning Def Tech towers, but I like what Dirac does with direct radiating speakers so it might be worth a shot. Just picked up a pair of 7001SC’s and I want to get the best out of them so if anyone has successfully used Dirac with bipolar towers please chime in.

pbz06 10-09-2019 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexBPM (Post 58665806)
Has anyone had any success using Dirac in conjunction with Def Tech bipolar towers? I used Audyssey MultEQXT years ago and disliked what it did to my BP2000TL’s. Recently I used ARC on an Anthem AVM 60 and did care for the results either. I’m wondering if the added reflections of the Bipolar design was to blame for the unpleasant results.

I’m considering purchasing a minidsp with Dirac to experiment. I’ve even considered covering the drivers on the rear of the speaker with Ultratouch or placing acoustic panels behind the towers to tame the reflections in an attempt to get better results. Which I know defies the purpose of owning Def Tech towers, but I like what Dirac does with direct radiating speakers so it might be worth a shot. Just picked up a pair of 7001SC’s and I want to get the best out of them so if anyone has successfully used Dirac with bipolar towers please chime in.

I have not, but XT32 works well and is also a ton better than regular multieq especially in the high end. Even Chris K basically admitted how bad the lesser versions were lol.

derekmoore 10-10-2019 07:14 AM

I've had mixed results with the older MultiEQXT. I never it liked for music, especially on the high end as mentioned above by pbz06. But after experimenting, I discovered having Audyssey on actually did make a positive improvement in dolby surround mode for movies/tv.


For music, I discovered using Audyssey L/R bypass, gives me a little eq on the low end that helps smooth out the response, but does not affect the high end. I'm not sure where that EQ cut off is. I'm guessing it would be where the crossover is set.


I'm guessing the bipolar design just doesn't play nice for the same reasons you speculate.


I'd guess with the miniDSP and Dirac you should be able to get getter results, especially if you use REW to help you see whats happening.

Sunbringer 11-01-2019 05:37 AM

I have a question for those of you who are running towers such as mythos st or similar with built in subwoofers. If I would get a dedicated subwoofer, how should i connect the towers that are connected to lfe right now?

Will the speakers still make use of the subwoofers even without them being connected to lfe?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

KSpan 11-01-2019 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbringer (Post 58761148)
I have a question for those of you who are running towers such as mythos st or similar with built in subwoofers. If I would get a dedicated subwoofer, how should i connect the towers that are connected to lfe right now?

Will the speakers still make use of the subwoofers even without them being connected to lfe?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Depends entirely on how you set it up. You could still hook them up via LFE if you chose, or you could run a full-range signal via the speaker wire to get all of the front bass. If your receiver has such a setting you could also go 'double bass' on your mains to do full-range and still send the bass to the sub.

Sunbringer 11-01-2019 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSpan (Post 58761264)
Depends entirely on how you set it up. You could still hook them up via LFE if you chose, or you could run a full-range signal via the speaker wire to get all of the front bass. If your receiver has such a setting you could also go 'double bass' on your mains to do full-range and still send the bass to the sub.

So if I run it with full range but without hooking up the lfe to the fronts, will the built in subwoofer aid the speakers in playing low frequencies withinn the full range? Or will the built I subwoofers remain unused?

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derekmoore 11-01-2019 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbringer (Post 58761148)
I have a question for those of you who are running towers such as mythos st or similar with built in subwoofers. If I would get a dedicated subwoofer, how should i connect the towers that are connected to lfe right now?

Will the speakers still make use of the subwoofers even without them being connected to lfe?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


You have options and much would depend upon your goals. Most still cross their powered towers over at 80htz and let their stand alone subs do what they do best. You'll still be using the powered woofers, with or without them connected to the LFE. The cross over is not a brick wall.


I'd strongly recommend you read and digest this before purchasing a sub. It is well worth the investment of time. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html


EDIT to add link.

Sunbringer 11-01-2019 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekmoore (Post 58761330)
You have options and much would depend upon your goals. Most still cross their powered towers over at 80htz and let their stand alone subs do what they do best. You'll still be using the powered woofers, with or without them connected to the LFE. The cross over is not a brick wall.


I'd strongly recommend you read and digest this before purchasing a sub. It is well worth the investment of time. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html


EDIT to add link.

Thank you for the tip! And I'll definitely check out the thread!

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

pbz06 11-01-2019 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbringer (Post 58761148)
I have a question for those of you who are running towers such as mythos st or similar with built in subwoofers. If I would get a dedicated subwoofer, how should i connect the towers that are connected to lfe right now?

Will the speakers still make use of the subwoofers even without them being connected to lfe?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

It depends on your dedicated subwoofer and how good it really is.

If you have no separate subwoofer: use the LFE input on the tower, and in the AVR set them to "Large" with "subwoofer: on" and "LFE only".

If you have a big boy separate subwoofer (like SVS, HSU etc): connect towers with speaker wire only, and in the AVR set them to "small" with a crossover starting at 80hz, or expirement with 60hz. Your towers will still play down a full octave at reduced volume since it's not a brickwall, and you will get smoother bass integration etc.

If your subwoofer is OK or you're struggling to smooth out response etc., you can play with anything in between and use combinations to get ebst results.

p.s.- the 10" woofers (I call them woofers, not subwoofers) in the towers usually roll off around 32hz...and even then, playing with higher volumes and bass heavy content, the separate subwoofer has much more power and less distortion etc.

Sunbringer 11-01-2019 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbz06 (Post 58762190)
It depends on your dedicated subwoofer and how good it really is.



If you have no separate subwoofer: use the LFE input on the tower, and in the AVR set them to "Large" with "subwoofer: on" and "LFE only".



If you have a big boy separate subwoofer (like SVS, HSU etc): connect towers with speaker wire only, and in the AVR set them to "small" with a crossover starting at 80hz, or expirement with 60hz. Your towers will still play down a full octave at reduced volume since it's not a brickwall, and you will get smoother bass integration etc.



If your subwoofer is OK or you're struggling to smooth out response etc., you can play with anything in between and use combinations to get ebst results.



p.s.- the 10" woofers (I call them woofers, not subwoofers) in the towers usually roll off around 32hz...and even then, playing with higher volumes and bass heavy content, the separate subwoofer has much more power and less distortion etc.

Thank you for the helpful explanation! I am thinking of getting a 12 inch xtz subwoofer to handle the lfe signal. I will let you all know how it all ends up and sounds in the end! [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Neltech 11-01-2019 06:01 PM

Has anyone used the LCR in-wall speakers as Atmos speakers?

jch2 11-01-2019 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neltech (Post 58764220)
Has anyone used the LCR in-wall speakers as Atmos speakers?

I was considering it, and they should work fine, but I went with the Di 8R series instead. A coaxial has better off axis response in all directions and wider dispersion. And I like the look of round speakers in the ceiling vs rectangular. If you're going to wall mount your height speakers, the LCR should work fine and look nice. I use BP2000s (bipolar) for mains, CLR2000 for center, UIW BPZ/A (bipolar) 6.5" for my front and rear heights (FHL, FHC, FHR, RHL, RHR), and Di 8R for tops and voice of God (TML, TMR, VOG), and Di 5.5PS (bipolar) for my side surround and surround backs. Sounds fantastic and all timber matched pretty well. And I love the way the bipolar heights and surrounds make the soundfield sound so huge. My walls and ceiling disappear when watching movies.

Neltech 11-01-2019 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jch2 (Post 58764324)
I was considering it, and they should work fine, but I went with the Di 8R series instead. A coaxial has better off axis response in all directions and wider dispersion. And I like the look of round speakers in the ceiling vs rectangular. If you're going to wall mount your height speakers, the LCR should work fine and look nice. I use BP2000s (bipolar) for mains, CLR2000 for center, UIW BPZ/A (bipolar) 6.5" for my front and rear heights (FHL, FHC, FHR, RHL, RHR), and Di 8R for tops and voice of God (TML, TMR, VOG), and Di 5.5PS (bipolar) for my side surround and surround backs. Sounds fantastic and all timber matched pretty well. And I love the way the bipolar heights and surrounds make the soundfield sound so huge. My walls and ceiling disappear when watching movies.

I am not concerned about how they look. I was just curious to see if having 2 drivers vs a single driver in each spot made a huge difference.


Im also debating trying some bi-polar speakers as heights, can anyone chime in on that topic?

jch2 11-02-2019 12:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neltech (Post 58764822)
I was just curious to see if having 2 drivers vs a single driver in each spot made a huge difference.

The DT LCR series speakers use an arrangement of flanking a tweeter with mids/woofers on either side (left/right) or (top/bottom). That is commonly known as MTM (mid-tweeter-mid). That helps with off axis frequency response along the line of the drivers and also driver output (a speaker can move more air with more cone area). For mains, center, and surrounds it works well because you are listening along the plane if the speaker, but for height/top channels MTM is sub-optimal because those channels require dispersion along both axis. It doesn't make a huge difference for height channels due to the type of content which audio engineers mix into the height channels. But best money invested for heights/tops would be speakers with wide dispersion along both axis, and typically coaxial speakers do that better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neltech (Post 58764822)
I'm also debating trying some bi-polar speakers as heights, can anyone chime in on that topic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jch2 (Post 58764324)
I use ... BP2000s (bipolar) for my mains .... UIW BPZ/A (bipolar) 6.5" for my front and rear heights (FHL, FHC, FHR, RHL, RHR) ... and Di 5.5PS (bipolar) for my side surround and surround backs. Sounds fantastic and all timber matched pretty well. And I love the way the bipolar mains, heights, and surrounds make the soundfield sound so huge. My walls and ceiling disappear when watching movies.

Bipolar may not be right for every source and room configuration, but for the right content and room, bipolar can sound much better than monopoles. It would be best for you to demo both in your room with the content you generally like to listen to and judge for yourself. I like action / SciFi movies, and I have a huge space (including 12' ceilings) to fill with sound and bipolars fill that space and sound much better than monopoles did. The difference was quite drastic.

raypjuarez 11-06-2019 09:20 AM

What would a worthy upgrade be going from the sm55 as the l/r?

derekmoore 11-06-2019 09:35 AM

^^^ More information please.


What is it you are not satisfied with about the SM55's?
What is it you would like to achieve?
What does the rest of your system consist of?
Room details?
Budget?

raypjuarez 11-06-2019 10:58 AM

I just don’t feel that the clarity is really there. My center is a CS8040, bipole surrounds against back wall and two pro cinema 600 as rear atmos. I’m in an apartment, so I’m limited to a small sub in the pro 600. I would love to also upgrade the center but don’t hve the cabinet space for anything bigger than the cs8040. I would say that for the front stage, I would like to stay within 1500.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekmoore (Post 58783384)
^^^ More information please.


What is it you are not satisfied with about the SM55's?
What is it you would like to achieve?
What does the rest of your system consist of?
Room details?
Budget?


derekmoore 11-06-2019 12:08 PM

^^ The SM55's are pretty solid speakers.


Sounds like your issue might be related to calibration, integration/setup, and/or room related issues.
If your issue relates to vocals (male voices especially) watching movies/tv then the center channel setup/integration with the sub would be something to investigate.


What receiver are you using and what are your settings?


Can you provide a picture of your set up/room?

raypjuarez 11-06-2019 12:16 PM

^^^^My receiver is the Denon X2200. The last couple days, it’s been clipping whenever I raise the volume. It’s very frustrating. I have all crossovers at 80HZ. I’ve raised the db on the center just a tad. I know the sub isn’t great at all. I’ve tried to play music on just the sm-55 and to be very honest, I was very unimpressed.

derekmoore 11-06-2019 12:26 PM

I'm assuming you ran Audyssey.


What Audyssey setting are you using?
How did you conduct the measurements and did you do any post calibration adjustments?




Did you try playing music in Direct Mode, or were you also using the Prosub 600 crossed at 80?


That sub will muddy up just about anything you run through it. Try playing music through the SM55's using Direct and Large setting if you have not already done so.
Have you experimented with speaker placement? How far are they from the back and side walls?
A picture would answer a dozen or more questions.

raypjuarez 11-06-2019 03:31 PM

The sub muddying everything would be due to the fact that it’s not a good sub at all right? I will take a picture tonight and post it. I greatly appreciate the help.

derekmoore 11-07-2019 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raypjuarez (Post 58785124)
The sub muddying everything would be due to the fact that it’s not a good sub at all right? I will take a picture tonight and post it. I greatly appreciate the help.


Yes, but the room and placement within the room can make a significant difference, as can some room treatments if needed.

raypjuarez 11-08-2019 08:27 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by derekmoore (Post 58787386)
Yes, but the room and placement within the room can make a significant difference, as can some room treatments if needed.

This is my setup. It's an apartment setup. Been moved around a few times. I have the pro cinema 600's in the back angled down at the main listener point. The cheapo sub is under the avr in the right hand side. I will experiment today with running the fronts as large.

derekmoore 11-08-2019 09:13 AM

The SM55's measure fairly well. From this review: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-labs-measures


"The SM55’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +1.66/–3.07 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3dB point is at 44 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 40 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.67 ohms at 207 Hz and a phase angle of –38.83 degrees at 136 Hz.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-studiomonitor-55-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures#muG64Bjs11z8YL63.99"



Your center on the other hand, not so much:


"The CS-8040HD’s listening-window response measures +1.83/–3.83 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. An average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal responses measures +2.44/–4.24 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 82 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 40 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.41 ohms at 273 Hz and a phase angle of –50.36 degrees at 132 Hz.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-studiomonitor-55-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures#muG64Bjs11z8YL63.99"


When you experiment with music leaving the sub off and speakers set to Large, try experimenting with toeing in the SM55's. They also would likely benefit from being positioned in an equilateral triangle to your listening position. When I had the SM 65's I found they really opened up once I put them on stands and spread them out from 6' apart to 10' (same as my listening distance). This made a big difference.


I have no experience with the 8040 center, but with an f3 point of 82htz that is just garbage for subwoofer integration. I notice them going up for sale on craigslist/ebay all the time and now I see why.


It is possible you might not care for the "Def Tech Sound" whatever that is, but I suspect much of your problem resides with the sub and/or sub/center integration. If you find you cant get the SM55's to meet your liking after experimenting above, then you might just want to move on from DT altogether.


One other thing, is you couch right up against the back wall?


If so, pulling that out a ft or two will help with the bass also.

raypjuarez 11-08-2019 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekmoore (Post 58792538)
The SM55's measure fairly well. From this review: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-labs-measures


"The SM55’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +1.66/–3.07 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3dB point is at 44 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 40 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.67 ohms at 207 Hz and a phase angle of –38.83 degrees at 136 Hz.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-studiomonitor-55-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures#muG64Bjs11z8YL63.99"



Your center on the other hand, not so much:


"The CS-8040HD’s listening-window response measures +1.83/–3.83 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. An average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal responses measures +2.44/–4.24 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 82 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 40 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.41 ohms at 273 Hz and a phase angle of –50.36 degrees at 132 Hz.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-studiomonitor-55-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures#muG64Bjs11z8YL63.99"


When you experiment with music leaving the sub off and speakers set to Large, try experimenting with toeing in the SM55's. They also would likely benefit from being positioned in an equilateral triangle to your listening position. When I had the SM 65's I found they really opened up once I put them on stands and spread them out from 6' apart to 10' (same as my listening distance). This made a big difference.


I have no experience with the 8040 center, but with an f3 point of 82htz that is just garbage for subwoofer integration. I notice them going up for sale on craigslist/ebay all the time and now I see why.


It is possible you might not care for the "Def Tech Sound" whatever that is, but I suspect much of your problem resides with the sub and/or sub/center integration. If you find you cant get the SM55's to meet your liking after experimenting above, then you might just want to move on from DT altogether.


One other thing, is you couch right up against the back wall?


If so, pulling that out a ft or two will help with the bass also.

Is there a different center that you might recommend? I’m going to experiment a lot today. I’m also going to look at different subs because I knew that this sub was bad but I felt that with my living situation, I needed to downgrade.


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