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post #47371 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 01:33 PM
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SOME, not ALL, people have issues with Klipsch and Emotiva. I say try it. It might work for you.
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post #47372 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 02:29 PM
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I was under the impression that the XPA-5 Gen 2s had a lower input gain which is suppose to avoid the noise issue with high efficiency speakers that the other and older models caused due to their higher gain.

If eleven speakers are what are needed to be powered then just get two XPA-5s and call it a day. The combination of those speakers, amps, and size of the room you will have plenty of headroom/power to spare.

Now if by chance you have recently acquired all these speakers and specifically the subwoofers, I would consider returning the subs and look at some other companies. Such as Rythmik, SVS, HSU, and I am sure there are other interesting options.

If you got an awesome deal on the subs then keep them because they are quite capable subs, especially if had below MSRP, but if you paid close to retail then and are within a return window definitely consider those companies for sub duty. Although those matching cones is certainly nice and again those are good subs.

I know Rythmik subs better than the other companies, which have great units as well, and the best subs from them are the FV-15HP and F25 subwoofers.

Best regards,
KvE
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post #47373 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonycpa2004 View Post
So, you recommend moving one pair of the RF-7 II to the side surrounds? Can you please advise why (just so I can learn something new)? I thought at times I would be able to listen to music using both pair of RF-7 IIs in the front and front wide positions. Are there drawbacks to that option?

The NAD option is a dram for me too! I have been hooked on home theater for approx 30 years now. If I get the two masters amps for the 7s and the one masters amp for the other 7 speakers it falls within my budget. I would then get the matching pre-amp the following year.

Another question I was hoping you guys could advise me on is the Masters amps are class D and the Emotiva are class AB. Is the Masters series option I posted still better? One thing I can add is I just spoke with the Emotiva tech guys and they said if I use their amps I will hear a buzzinf on my Klipsch Reference Series II speakers because they have a high sensitivity. Will that be true for all amp brands? Is this a common issue for Klipsch owners or is it just with the Emotiva amps I listed?

Thanks for all the input guys.
When it comes to music I only ever listen in 2ch or 2.1ch. The thing is music listening and movie watching require different approaches to get the best sound re-production, so much so that others have dedicated setups for each. Some of us are not that lucky so have to incorporate a 2 ch music system and a multi channel surround system into the same room. So 2 good speakers ie rf7s do well for music. Next for surround system it is important to have a matching center. A 3rd rf7 is the best match but once again with our multi-purpose listening areas some of us can not do that so rc64 is next best option. Next on list is surrounds- the majority of surround content is still 5.1 so a lot of movie content goes to the surround channels ie side surrounds. I myself have rf82ii as my surrounds and they are great. The rest of the surround speakers are basically add-ons with the exception of some 7.1 mastered content that utilizes the rear surrounds. Standard 5.1 content can extract the rear surround signal from the side surrounds giving a pseudo 7.1 track. The same happens with the front wides and front heights though I believe the signal is extracted from the main left and right signal as opposed to surrounds. Also subwoofers are very important for both 2ch and multi ch setups but it looks like you have them covered. So to sum up the most important speakers are main left and right for 2ch stereo, subwoofers for both, center then surrounds for multi ch and front wides/heights etc as least important on the list.
As for amps I would take the NAD over emotiva any day, that is not to say emotiva is bad just I believe NAD are better. The mentioned ATI amps look really good too, I would take them over emotiva as well.
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post #47374 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 04:15 PM
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Thank you for the reply. The room is approx 20X20. I would at times like to reach concert levels. I just spoke with the Emotiva tech support and they said if I use the XPA-2 and XPA-7 with my Klipsch Reference Series II speakers there will be a buzzing and it can be heard up to 2 feet from the speakers.

Should I be concerned by this or is it normal regardless of what amp is used with these Klipsch speakers? For example, if I used the NAD Masters Series amps or some other brand will I hear the same buzzing?

Also, I have 11 speakers. Can you please clarify what amps you are recommending? Thanks.

I have an Emotiva amp and Klipsch speakers, and yes there is a slight buzz - if I'm 2 feet from the speaker. This isn't an issue for me, as I can't hear it at any of the listening positions in the room.

As for AB vs D amps - D's are much more efficient. As to whether that leads to better overall sound - I wouldn't think by much. I've been very happy with my Emotiva overall, but If there were a larger budget, I'm sure I would upgrade to the NADs.
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post #47375 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 04:56 PM
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The speakers themselves are nice looking, the same cannot be said about their sound IMO. The R15M's are sitting on a pair of Audioengine D2 angled stands, so the horns are definitely ear level when compared to those of the more shorter R14M. I believe that's why they R15M's sounded way brighter. After a while I developed a headache something I have never experienced with any other speaker. Like I said, I tried it and it wasn't for me, that doesn't mean the are low quality. The settings on the receiver were set to straight right after running the Yamaha's ypao and even with that the sound was just not right for me.
When I listen to music I shut audyssey off and run a graphic EQ to my liking.

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post #47376 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 05:18 PM
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I have an Emotiva amp and Klipsch speakers, and yes there is a slight buzz - if I'm 2 feet from the speaker. This isn't an issue for me, as I can't hear it at any of the listening positions in the room.

As for AB vs D amps - D's are much more efficient. As to whether that leads to better overall sound - I wouldn't think by much. I've been very happy with my Emotiva overall, but If there were a larger budget, I'm sure I would upgrade to the NADs.
Thank you. Your responses where very informative and helpful. I can purchase the NAD amps with the budget I have.

I do not believe I can afford McIntosh, Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Parasound, Crown, Ice Power or Cello for my budget. If I am wrong please correct me but these are two options I already checked...


McIntosh - Can’t afford because the power amps alone put me over budget.

$11,000 ($5,500 each) Two MC-302 300W X 2 channels

$6,000 each retail - One MC-8207 200W X 7 channels

Or

$8,500 each retail - One MC-207 200W X 7 channels



Krell - Can’t afford because the power amps alone put me over budget.

$14,000 ($7,000 each) retail - Two Duo300 300W X 2 channels

$7,200 each retail - One Chorus 7200 200W X 7 channels


So, far the NAD Masters Series amps shown below are my best option but if anyone else has any ideas, please let me know. It is a big purchase and I am going to have them for many years. So, I am hoping the Klipsch community can weigh in and make sure I get the best option.

$6,000 ($3,000 each) retail - Two Masters Series M22 250W RMS X 2 channels
$4,000 each retail - One Master Series M27 180W RMS X7 channels

Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.
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post #47377 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Robbiey60 View Post
When it comes to music I only ever listen in 2ch or 2.1ch. The thing is music listening and movie watching require different approaches to get the best sound re-production, so much so that others have dedicated setups for each. Some of us are not that lucky so have to incorporate a 2 ch music system and a multi channel surround system into the same room. So 2 good speakers ie rf7s do well for music. Next for surround system it is important to have a matching center. A 3rd rf7 is the best match but once again with our multi-purpose listening areas some of us can not do that so rc64 is next best option. Next on list is surrounds- the majority of surround content is still 5.1 so a lot of movie content goes to the surround channels ie side surrounds. I myself have rf82ii as my surrounds and they are great. The rest of the surround speakers are basically add-ons with the exception of some 7.1 mastered content that utilizes the rear surrounds. Standard 5.1 content can extract the rear surround signal from the side surrounds giving a pseudo 7.1 track. The same happens with the front wides and front heights though I believe the signal is extracted from the main left and right signal as opposed to surrounds. Also subwoofers are very important for both 2ch and multi ch setups but it looks like you have them covered. So to sum up the most important speakers are main left and right for 2ch stereo, subwoofers for both, center then surrounds for multi ch and front wides/heights etc as least important on the list.
As for amps I would take the NAD over emotiva any day, that is not to say emotiva is bad just I believe NAD are better. The mentioned ATI amps look really good too, I would take them over emotiva as well.
Thanks again. I have received a lot of great tips to think about already.

I'm still considering moving one pair of 7s to the side surround position. I take your point that if I have 11 speakers, I should place put my best 5 in the 5.1 surround positions and use the other six as front height surround, front wide surround and rear surround. I get that. It make a lot of sense. A lot of source material like T.V., BlueRay et is in 5.1.

One thing I would like to know, that could make this decision very easy is, if I set the Denon to Pure Direct will it provide an audio source to both my front 7s and my wide front 7s? If it only sends music to the front 7s and subs and not the front wide 7s, then it's a no brainer to move my the second pair of 7s to the side surround position. Does anyone know the answer?

I may take your advice on choosing the NAD over Emotiva after speaking to their tech support today. If there is a known issue with Emotiva buzzing when used with high efficiency speakers like the Reference Series II, I will pass. Too many other options. If this buzzing occurred with all brands of amps that would be different. I will research ATI amp options this weekend.

As noted in post #47384 I don't believe I could afford McIntosh, Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Parasound, Crown, Ice Power or Cello, but if anyone has any other brands they would recommend I research please let me know.

Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.

Last edited by Tonycpa2004; 12-01-2015 at 06:07 PM.
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post #47378 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
SOME, not ALL, people have issues with Klipsch and Emotiva. I say try it. It might work for you.
For the money I am going to spend and the years I plan on living with them, I can't go that route. Especially, since their tech support specifically brought up the issue when specifically discussing their recommendation for my speakers. Too many other choices.

I'm going to listen to the advice I get from the Klipsch community in this thread to ensure I don't make a mistake I will regret for the next 10+ years. I'm counting on these guys to help me pick the best amps from all the choices out there.

Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.

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post #47379 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post
I was under the impression that the XPA-5 Gen 2s had a lower input gain which is suppose to avoid the noise issue with high efficiency speakers that the other and older models caused due to their higher gain.

If eleven speakers are what are needed to be powered then just get two XPA-5s and call it a day. The combination of those speakers, amps, and size of the room you will have plenty of headroom/power to spare.

Now if by chance you have recently acquired all these speakers and specifically the subwoofers, I would consider returning the subs and look at some other companies. Such as Rythmik, SVS, HSU, and I am sure there are other interesting options.

If you got an awesome deal on the subs then keep them because they are quite capable subs, especially if had below MSRP, but if you paid close to retail then and are within a return window definitely consider those companies for sub duty. Although those matching cones is certainly nice and again those are good subs.

I know Rythmik subs better than the other companies, which have great units as well, and the best subs from them are the FV-15HP and F25 subwoofers.

Best regards,
KvE
Hey pal. I am looking on the Emotiva website now. The XPA-5 has a gain of 29db. This gain is identical to both the XPA-7 and two XPA-2s which was what their tech support recommended to me this afternoon. He said there will be a buzzing noise (he brought it up).

I bought the 4 R-115SWs last year and I love them. Each one resides in one corner of the room. I only paid around 60% of retail which made the final decision an easy one. SVS made my final two last year. I forgot what model I was considering. Once I found the deal on the Klipsch subs though, nothing SVS had for sale could match the performance and value. I love the way the R-115SWs look...the size of the enclosure, the color and their diameter all impressed me in addition to the specs. I had a lot of conversations with the guys at SVS and I am using their interconnects for my subs which I highly recommend.

PS: I watched The Impossible on BlueRay a few months back. I swear it felt like the tsunami was coming through my front wall and right through my room! Holy cow. We also watched TopGun which I must have seen a dozen times over the last few decades but with this the Klipsch subs, I swear it felt like we were on the Tomcat taking off from the aircraft carrier!!! My father said his recliner was rumbling and he didn't even have any beans...hahaha. Forget about U-571, my sister thought we were all goners when the depth charges were going off! This was before I purchased both paid of 7s. I am very, very happy with the bass. It's awesome.


Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.

Last edited by Tonycpa2004; 12-01-2015 at 06:13 PM.
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post #47380 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 06:03 PM
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SPL Meter

Wasn't sure where the best place to post this would be, so hopefully this is okay? Can someone recommend a good SPL Meter around the $50 range. I just want to use something better than the phone app I've been using. Thanks in advance.
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post #47381 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonycpa2004 View Post
Hey pal. I am looking on the Emotiva website now. The XPA-5 has a gain of 29db. This gain is identical to both the XPA-7 and two XPA-2s which was what their tech support recommended to me this afternoon. He said there will be a buzzing noise (he brought it up).

I bought the 4 R-115SWs last year and I love them. Each one resides in one corner of the room. I only paid around 60% of retail which made the final decision an easy one. SVS made my final two last year. I forgot what model I was considering. Once I found the deal on the Klipsch subs though, nothing SVS had for sale could match the performance and value. I love the way the R-115SWs look...the size of the enclosure, the color and their diameter all impressed me in addition to the specs. I had a lot of conversations with the guys at SVS and I am using their interconnects for my subs which I highly recommend.

PS: I watched The Impossible on BlueRay a few months back. I swear it felt like the tsunami was coming through my front wall and right through my room! Holy cow. We also watched TopGun which I must have seen a dozen times over the last few decades but with this the Klipsch subs, I swear it felt like we were on the Tomcat taking off from the aircraft carrier!!! My father said his recliner was rumbling and he didn't even have any beans...hahaha. Forget about U-571, my sister thought we were all goners when the depth charges were going off!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgw394ZKsis
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Originally Posted by Tonycpa2004 View Post
Thank you. Your responses where very informative and helpful. I can purchase the NAD amps with the budget I have.

I do not believe I can afford McIntosh, Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Parasound, Crown, Ice Power or Cello for my budget. If I am wrong please correct me but these are two options I already checked...


McIntosh - Can’t afford because the power amps alone put me over budget.

$11,000 ($5,500 each) Two MC-302 300W X 2 channels

$6,000 each retail - One MC-8207 200W X 7 channels

Or

$8,500 each retail - One MC-207 200W X 7 channels



Krell - Can’t afford because the power amps alone put me over budget.

$14,000 ($7,000 each) retail - Two Duo300 300W X 2 channels

$7,200 each retail - One Chorus 7200 200W X 7 channels


So, far the NAD Masters Series amps shown below are my best option but if anyone else has any ideas, please let me know. It is a big purchase and I am going to have them for many years. So, I am hoping the Klipsch community can weigh in and make sure I get the best option.

$6,000 ($3,000 each) retail - Two Masters Series M22 250W RMS X 2 channels
$4,000 each retail - One Master Series M27 180W RMS X7 channels

Hmmm. That is a lot of money for amps - you may want to try the Emotiva first to see how it works. There are a lot of members in this forum with Emotiva amps and Klipsch speakers, and the buzz is a non-issue. I honestly have to get very close to my speakers to even know it's there. A lot easier to try and send back, than to never know.
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post #47382 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 06:14 PM
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Wasn't sure where the best place to post this would be, so hopefully this is okay? Can someone recommend a good SPL Meter around the $50 range. I just want to use something better than the phone app I've been using. Thanks in advance.
I have always seen the RadioShack meter recommended through the years. That's what I use. Cheap too.
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Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.
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post #47383 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 06:16 PM
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Hmmm. That is a lot of money for amps - you may want to try the Emotiva first to see how it works. There are a lot of members in this forum with Emotiva amps and Klipsch speakers, and the buzz is a non-issue. I honestly have to get very close to my speakers to even know it's there. A lot easier to try and send back, than to never know.
I thought you voted for the Masters if they were within the budget (which they are) for sure?

I am definitely going to be relying on the input I receive from the Klipsch owner's in this thread to make my final decision. Once I buy them, I am going to live with them for many years.

Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.

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post #47384 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonycpa2004 View Post
Thanks again. I have received a lot of great tips to think about already.

I'm still considering moving one pair of 7s to the side surround position. I take your point that if I have 11 speakers, I should place put my best 5 in the 5.1 surround positions and use the other six as front height surround, front wide surround and rear surround. I get that. It make a lot of sense. A lot of source material like T.V., BlueRay et is in 5.1.

One thing I would like to know, that could make this decision very easy is, if I set the Denon to Pure Direct will it provide an audio source to both my front 7s and my wide front 7s? If it only sends music to the front 7s and subs and not the front wide 7s, then it's a no brainer to move my the second pair of 7s to the side surround position. Does anyone know the answer?

I may take your advice on choosing the NAD over Emotiva after speaking to their tech support today. If there is a known issue with Emotiva buzzing when used with high efficiency speakers like the Reference Series II, I will pass. Too many other options. If this buzzing occurred with all brands of amps that would be different. I will research ATI amp options this weekend.

As noted in post #47384 I don't believe I could afford McIntosh, Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Parasound, Crown, Ice Power or Cello, but if anyone has any other brands they would recommend I research please let me know.
Pure in my onkyo means just 2ch signal, so only left and right for stereo. I believe other manufacturers would be the same. I am not sure why you would want stereo and wides at the same time, it would mess up the imaging and soundstage. Everything else seems good and since you are both considering and can aford the NADs I would go for them. Like I said they are my dream amps other than a NZ manufacturer Plinius. I would suggest them but I think at around 10k for a 2ch amp maybe not.
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post #47385 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonycpa2004 View Post
I have always seen the RadioShack meter recommended through the years. That's what I use. Cheap too.
Thanks for the quick reply. I see people mention the Radio Shack one all the time, do you know the model number? My son is looking to get it for me as a gift, but he wanted to check Amazon too, to see if they have it. I tried to search Radio Shacks site and it pulled up over 100 useless items and I didn't want to sift through it all to look for an SPL meter.
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post #47386 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 07:36 PM
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I thought you voted for the Masters if they were within the budget (which they are) for sure?

I am definitely going to be relying on the input I receive from the Klipsch owner's in this thread to make my final decision. Once I buy them, I am going to live with them for many years.
Once I saw the cost, made me rethink that statement a bit - that's why I suggested trying out the Emotiva first to see if you like it. There are many opinions on amps out there, but technically speaking, an amp is an amp is an amp. What I mean by that is: an amps purpose is to just to provide power to your speakers, and not actually influence the sound in any way, so the content is experienced as it was meant to be. Now, that's not always the case, as tube amps definitely add some inflection that some love, but realistically, shouldn't e there. If you were to blind test the NADs to the Emotiva, I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't find much difference.
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post #47387 of 58868 Old 12-01-2015, 07:45 PM
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One thing I would like to know, that could make this decision very easy is, if I set the Denon to Pure Direct will it provide an audio source to both my front 7s and my wide front 7s? If it only sends music to the front 7s and subs and not the front wide 7s, then it's a no brainer to move my the second pair of 7s to the side surround position. Does anyone know the answer?
It is extremely unlikely that Pure Direct will send anything to heights or wides. I can't 100% speak for the Denon but on the Yamahas I've owned, modes like that are about passing the source material directly to the speakers without doing anything that might alter the signal. So if the source is 2 channels, only 2 channels get driven. If it's 5.1, just the standard 5.1 get driven. On my Yamaha, I have "straight" which passes the source signal with no additional DSP, and "pure direct" which also turns off parts of the receiver (like the front display and video processing) in order to reduce interference. I think your Denon is likely the same.

This "Denon-to-English" page may be useful (and seems to confirm my understanding): http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html

If you plan on listening to Direct or Pure Direct a lot, that second set of RF7IIs won't get much love as wides.
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Thank you. Your responses where very informative and helpful. I can purchase the NAD amps with the budget I have.

I do not believe I can afford McIntosh, Krell, Mark Levinson, Audio Research, Parasound, Crown, Ice Power or Cello for my budget. If I am wrong please correct me but these are two options I already checked...


McIntosh - Can’t afford because the power amps alone put me over budget.

$11,000 ($5,500 each) Two MC-302 300W X 2 channels

$6,000 each retail - One MC-8207 200W X 7 channels

Or

$8,500 each retail - One MC-207 200W X 7 channels



Krell - Can’t afford because the power amps alone put me over budget.

$14,000 ($7,000 each) retail - Two Duo300 300W X 2 channels

$7,200 each retail - One Chorus 7200 200W X 7 channels


So, far the NAD Masters Series amps shown below are my best option but if anyone else has any ideas, please let me know. It is a big purchase and I am going to have them for many years. So, I am hoping the Klipsch community can weigh in and make sure I get the best option.

$6,000 ($3,000 each) retail - Two Masters Series M22 250W RMS X 2 channels
$4,000 each retail - One Master Series M27 180W RMS X7 channels
Also look at Anthem, Outlaw, and Rotel. They are much cheaper than Krell or Mcintosh and still considered very good.
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So I bought a pair of Klipsch R-15m's @1/2 price from Best Buy not really knowing what to expect but with fairly low expectations - I have heard so much about the horns being shrill and fatiguing, about how klipsch is all about marketing these days, how the reference line is now just "prettyed" up icons, sold to dupes (like me) at best buy....and I am completely blown away by them...they sound FANTASTIC right out of the box - what's the break in period, cause if they get any better, next time they go on sale, I'm picking up another pair - without any known use for them!

Peace
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post #47390 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tonycpa2004 View Post
McIntosh - Can’t afford because the power amps alone put me over budget.

$11,000 ($5,500 each) Two MC-302 300W X 2 channels

$6,000 each retail - One MC-8207 200W X 7 channels

Or

$8,500 each retail - One MC-207 200W X 7 channels
Disclaimer: I've not read everything you've said so my next comment might be out of bounds and if so, my apologies up front.

Once I saw the comment about the two McIntosh amps at $11K I thought I'd say something.

Not knowing what all your needs are, you might look into trying a Crown K1 or K2. Balanced inputs, adjustable gains and NO FANS to make any noise!!!

I have three K2's for my system (though only two of them are actually in use)

System is dead quiet and I have a ton of power if I need it. You can find them on Ebay for $450 to maybe $800 range.

As a reference, I used to own a McIntosh MC-2102 (tubed x 100 watts). Though it was a beautiful amp, I don't feel I'm missing a single note by having sold it for several thousand and going with a lowely Crown.
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So I bought a pair of Klipsch R-15m's @1/2 price from Best Buy not really knowing what to expect but with fairly low expectations - I have heard so much about the horns being shrill and fatiguing, about how klipsch is all about marketing these days, how the reference line is now just "prettyed" up icons, sold to dupes (like me) at best buy....and I am completely blown away by them...they sound FANTASTIC right out of the box - what's the break in period, cause if they get any better, next time they go on sale, I'm picking up another pair - without any known use for them!

Peace
Awesome, glad you like them. I guess that shows you shouldn't believe everything you hear. Congrats.

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Thanks for the quick reply. I see people mention the Radio Shack one all the time, do you know the model number? My son is looking to get it for me as a gift, but he wanted to check Amazon too, to see if they have it. I tried to search Radio Shacks site and it pulled up over 100 useless items and I didn't want to sift through it all to look for an SPL meter.
I have to say that the car in your avatar is very cool. Just curious….is that your car? 55?

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post #47393 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 06:36 AM
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I have a a ding in my RF-7ii Black from a vacuum cleaner on the front lower corner, is a black sharpie the way to touch this up? Or is there a marker that matches better? Very surprised at how little it took to mess the veneer on these beauties.

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post #47394 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 07:20 AM
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It's veneer over MDF. Probably have to undo the veneer, fill in the ding with wood filler and reglue the veneer. A scratch can be taken care of with a marker.
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post #47395 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 10:22 AM
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It's veneer over MDF. Probably have to undo the veneer, fill in the ding with wood filler and reglue the veneer. A scratch can be taken care of with a marker.
It can be taken care of with a marker, just wondering if the sharpie was the way to go for agood match

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post #47396 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 10:52 AM
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A Sharpie will work on a scratch.
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post #47397 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 10:56 AM
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I moved one pair of 7s to the side surround position last night. Thanks guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpirnat View Post
It is extremely unlikely that Pure Direct will send anything to heights or wides. I can't 100% speak for the Denon but on the Yamahas I've owned, modes like that are about passing the source material directly to the speakers without doing anything that might alter the signal. So if the source is 2 channels, only 2 channels get driven. If it's 5.1, just the standard 5.1 get driven. On my Yamaha, I have "straight" which passes the source signal with no additional DSP, and "pure direct" which also turns off parts of the receiver (like the front display and video processing) in order to reduce interference. I think your Denon is likely the same.

This "Denon-to-English" page may be useful (and seems to confirm my understanding): http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html

If you plan on listening to Direct or Pure Direct a lot, that second set of RF7IIs won't get much love as wides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbiey60 View Post
Pure in my onkyo means just 2ch signal, so only left and right for stereo. I believe other manufacturers would be the same. I am not sure why you would want stereo and wides at the same time, it would mess up the imaging and soundstage. Everything else seems good and since you are both considering and can aford the NADs I would go for them. Like I said they are my dream amps other than a NZ manufacturer Plinius. I would suggest them but I think at around 10k for a 2ch amp maybe not.

Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.

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post #47398 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 11:03 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply. I see people mention the Radio Shack one all the time, do you know the model number? My son is looking to get it for me as a gift, but he wanted to check Amazon too, to see if they have it. I tried to search Radio Shacks site and it pulled up over 100 useless items and I didn't want to sift through it all to look for an SPL meter.
I have the box in my hands. The only number on it says 330-4050. I bought mine years ago, so they may have different models for sale today.

Quickly checked Amazon.com for you and found this... http://www.amazon.com/Radio-Shack-33.../dp/B000A1EHGW

^^^I don't see weighting and reponse on this model though.

So, checked Ebay. Here is what I found... http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2719029...chn=ps&lpid=82
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Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.

Last edited by Tonycpa2004; 12-02-2015 at 11:13 AM.
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post #47399 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
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Also look at Anthem, Outlaw, and Rotel. They are much cheaper than Krell or Mcintosh and still considered very good.
Will do, thank you for the recommendations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coytee View Post
Disclaimer: I've not read everything you've said so my next comment might be out of bounds and if so, my apologies up front.

Once I saw the comment about the two McIntosh amps at $11K I thought I'd say something.

Not knowing what all your needs are, you might look into trying a Crown K1 or K2. Balanced inputs, adjustable gains and NO FANS to make any noise!!!

I have three K2's for my system (though only two of them are actually in use)

System is dead quiet and I have a ton of power if I need it. You can find them on Ebay for $450 to maybe $800 range.

As a reference, I used to own a McIntosh MC-2102 (tubed x 100 watts). Though it was a beautiful amp, I don't feel I'm missing a single note by having sold it for several thousand and going with a lowely Crown.
I thought I checked Crown and they were out of my price range but I will check again. I am looking for one amp that provides approx. 200W RMS X7 channels and two amps that provide approx. 250-300W RMS X 2 channels for under $10,000 total.

Somewhere, in the past, I can't remember if it was when I was building a car audio system or not, I thought I read complaints about the reliability of Crown amps. I think I came across this during my JBL days because JBL and Crown are under the same Corp umbrella and I believe it was HK that used to try to package the Crown amps with the JBLs. As I type this and am jogging my memory, I think I heard about this about 10 years ago when I purchased my Studio Series. The JBL sub was powered by a Crown amp, and that sub was notorious for failing due to the amp.

That was a long time ago though. Worth revisiting the brand.

Power Sound Audio: 2 V3600i dual 18" subs; SVS: sub interconnects; Klipsch: 4 R-115SW subs, 5 RF-7 IIs (center, front mains & side surrounds), 6 RB-81 IIs (front wide, front height & rear surrounds); Belden: 10 AWG copper speaker wire; Sewell Direct: Deadbolt banana plugs; ATI Morris Kessler Signature amps: AT6005 & AT4006; Mogami Gold: interconnects; Marantz Pre-amp: AV8802A; Oppo: UDP-203; Roku Ultra; PS4; APC; Mid Atlantic: RCS-27U rack w/fans; Epson: 5040UBe projector; Elite: 125" AT screen.

Last edited by Tonycpa2004; 12-02-2015 at 11:18 AM.
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post #47400 of 58868 Old 12-02-2015, 11:25 AM
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I have the Radio Shack meter on Amazon. It has C-weighting and Slow Response.

An ATI AT2007 is 200Wx7 for a little over 3K.
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