Klipsch owner thread - Page 1913 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #57361 of 58330 Old 02-04-2019, 02:50 PM
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Getting the SA or any up-firing speakers to work well as Atmos speakers, often require a lot of trial and error. So many things such as distance, angles, ceiling height, slope, etc have an effect. I currently have the 280fa in the front and the 160m surrounds slightly to rear and sides of MLP, but in line with the 280fa. I have 500sa sitting on top of the 160m. I sometimes think I can hear a good amount of overhead action, and other times think not so good. The problem many of us have is our MLP is not in the "exact" spot that enables everything to work perfectly.
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post #57362 of 58330 Old 02-04-2019, 02:56 PM
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I think it depends on tracks too. I think XT32 did a good job with mine, but all content is different. Overall, I run Dolby Surround on non Atmos/DTS X tracks, and I think it makes the sound better.

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post #57363 of 58330 Old 02-04-2019, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by springs113 View Post
A fuller sound due to the fact of having a separated mid and low driver. Imho it should be clearer vocals as well.

Would the smaller 4 inch drivers make much difference? I like the idea of having mid and low drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3trol_h3ad View Post
QuiGon, the 404 is just better than the 500, period. The total cone area is larger so it will play lower. Smaller woofers mean wider dispersion. The only downside would be interference between the cones' output, but they've tried to mitigate that with the 2.5 way design (two crossover points).
This☝️....I suck at explaining things... plus from my personal experience with the 504c and 600c, I decided to keep the 504c.
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post #57364 of 58330 Old 02-04-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Have you tried using the front SA’s as front heights? It might be worth the effort as many have had good performance doing so. Also, all content is not created equal as Atmos quality varies from studio to studio and film to film as you’ve experienced/noted. Film makers and audio mixers are still learning the craft. On a positive note, each new film is seemingly better than its predecessor.
That would have been nice. It’s hard to tell in the pics but MLP is way too far for front wall mounted heights to work. Angle would have been something like 12 degrees if I recall. Even the “bounce” is a little short relative to MLP but still works well enough. I have them angled a little bit. I have found higher frequency effects work better than lower frequency ones. The rear heights are slightly below Dolby recommend angle but was close enough. I had prior wiring there so used it.
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post #57365 of 58330 Old 02-04-2019, 10:27 PM
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[quote=gene4ht;57549066]First...some initial thoughts/comments:

(1) The optimal (most accurate) Atmos results are obtained with the use of "on ceiling" or "in ceiling" speakers...generally wide dispersion speakers with 60-80Hz capability are recommended

(2) The next best option is the use of "height" level speakers...mounted at or near the junction of the front and rear walls and the ceiling...aimed/angled toward the MLP...your Option #1

(3) Dolby Atmos Enabled Speakers (DAES)..."reflective," "bouncy" type speakers are utilized when it is not possible or desirable to install the former types...usually when there is no ceiling access above, ornate ceilings, major WAF concerns, apartment living, etc. The Klipsch SA speakers were originally designed for and fall into this category. Other manufacturers also offer this type..i.e. SVS's Prime Elevation Series. Eventually these types of speakers were also marketed as "height" effects speakers and "surround" speakers to increase their marketability.

The use of DAES speakers have provided acceptable performance for some. However, they are highly dependent on proper positioning and used ideally for smooth flat ceilings. Departure from these ideal conditions typically result in diminishing performance. Some have found it challenging to properly aim/position DAES type speakers for extremely angled cathedral ceilings, highly textured ceilings, and coffered ceilings. Depending on the degree of variation, these ceiling types typically disperse/scatter sound and have difficulty reflecting sound to the MLP resulting in less accurate and/or diminished Atmos performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
Convert from 7.1.2 to 5.1.4[/QUOTE]

This is an improved configuration for most as there is actually very little content (in movies) directed to the rear surrounds. Four overheads will provide a greater and more accurate immersive effect as front to rear overhead pans become more realistic. With the RZ1100 and an external 2 channel amp, the rears can be added back in later if so desired.



(1) If it is possible, consider replacing the SA's with "on" or "in" ceiling speakers mounted on the underside of the beams....ideally in line with the front L and R mains...but experiment with outside and/or inside of this line (governed by beam location of course) as "many rooms have constraints" and some deviation still returns good Atmos performance.

If your beams are hollow, Klipsch's CDT series "in-ceilings" are popular/excellent solutions. If the beams are solid, enclosures can be built and mounted to the sides of the beams or shallow bookshelves can be used.

https://www.klipsch.com/ceiling-speakers

(2) If it is desirable to keep the SA's, then the next best solution is to use them as "height" speakers at the front and rear as you suggested in Option #1

(3) It is not recommended to utilize the SA's as ceiling speakers as in Option #2 or Option #3 ...not designed for this purpose and more difficult to precisely aim/position for optimal Atmos effects.



Yes, if you intend to keep the SA's as front heights...do SA's for rear heights...in line or roughly in line with the fronts...doesn't have to be perfect...some deviation will still result in good performance.

Attachment 2520310

Note: Re: Left and Right side surrounds - For Atmos, it is necessary to lower the side surrounds to at or slightly above seated ear level. Both vertical and angular separation of base and overhead speakers is required to place objects accurately in space. From your pictures, it appears placing the side surrounds on stands could be one possible solution.

Lastly, the thread you've been looking for is the Official Atmos Thread...highly recommended for specific Atmos information and guidance...many experienced users and industry experts regularly contribute there...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...sion-1782.html
First of all, that was a fantastic reply and I thank you for it. I remember your handle and I am sure over the years you have answered other questions of mine, so thank you.

THe investment of the in ceilings you linked puts me at 1200 bucks or so, investment in SAs is right at 300 bucks, so in that regard I just cannot justify the cost.

SInce I do not actually own the second pair of SAs yet, and I find the in ceilings too expensive.. isnt there an "on ceiling" mountable speaker? Or what "slim bookshelf" as you called would you recommend? Cuz I am now considering, based on your advise, setting my front SAs as heights as per Option 1 in my post, and maybe getting something else I can get overhead for my back ATMOS instead of the SAs...

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57366 of 58330 Old 02-04-2019, 11:03 PM
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Looking to upgrade my movie room - looking for new projector, new screen, and also maybe adding some dolby atmos speakers as I've seen Dolby Atmos talked about here and there. Are there reasonably cheap (trying not to spend too much) speakers that would work well? And dolby atmos refers to the sound setting on the movie, not a certain brand of speaker correct?

I currently have 5.1 setup with Denon X2400 and Klipsch speakers
RF-82 tower speakers
RS-52 surround speakers
RC-62 center speaker
SW-310 subwoofer

My AV guy recommended some episode speakers (I'm not familiar with the brand) and he said they'd be like $400 for speakers and $250 for installation......that was more than I was hoping to spend, just seeing if I can do it cheaper and be worth the money (not even sure how many movies would be enhanced with 2 more atmos speakers)

Thanks for any help!

Last edited by mdcubsfan; 02-05-2019 at 06:38 AM. Reason: adding detail
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post #57367 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcubsfan View Post
Looking to upgrade my movie room - looking for new projector, new screen, and also maybe adding some dolby atmos speakers. Are there reasonably cheap (trying not to spend too much) speakers that would work well? And dolby atmos refers to the sound setting on the movie, not a certain brand of speaker correct?

I currently have 5.1 setup with Klipsch
RF-82 tower speakers
RS-52 surround speakers
RC-62 center speaker
SW-310 subwoofer

My AV guy recommended some episode speakers (I'm not familiar with the brand) and he said they'd be like $400 for speakers and $250 for installation......that was more than I was hoping to spend, just seeing if I can do it cheaper and be worth the money (not even sure how many movies would be enhanced with 2 more atmos speakers)

Thanks for any help!
There are some threads on the forum about them. Below is just a couple, but there are more. I found these by doing a Google Search. You may want to read them and see what you think. Don't let you AV guy drive you to what they want to put in. Check out other speakers to see what you like. I like Klipsch, but I also like speakers like JTR that I can't afford, but sound awesome. Many choices out there.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...o-episode.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-speakers.html
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post #57368 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by m3incorp View Post
I bought a pair of RP280fa and was missing the stands/or I discarded the box with them in the very bottom. I contacted them via the website and explained they were either not in the box or I overlooked them and tossed the box with them in there, and they responded within hours. They sent me a pair out via FedEx 2 day delivery.
Thanks for your reply. The way the package the feet at the bottom of the box, hidden from view, is odd. I was lucky that I opened both ends, but one was missing. For the time being, I just put one under the front of each speaker, may actually be just as good or better that way.

I just got an email from Klipsch, they shipped the feet, free shipping.

Last edited by pandy4; 02-05-2019 at 09:27 AM.
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post #57369 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 10:02 AM
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Glad they shipped to you quickly. They seem to be very responsive and I'm sure we aren't the only one that had missing stands/feet or in my case, possibly "missed" them the way they were packaged.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy4 View Post
Thanks for your reply. The way the package the feet at the bottom of the box, hidden from view, is odd. I was lucky that I opened both ends, but one was missing. For the time being, I just put one under the front of each speaker, may actually be just as good or better that way.

I just got an email from Klipsch, they shipped the feet, free shipping.
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post #57370 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
First of all, that was a fantastic reply and I thank you for it. I remember your handle and I am sure over the years you have answered other questions of mine, so thank you.
You're welcome....

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
THe investment of the in ceilings you linked puts me at 1200 bucks or so, investment in SAs is right at 300 bucks, so in that regard I just cannot justify the cost.
Keep in mind that pricing on the Klipsch site is MSRP....call any authorized internet dealer for the actual "far less street" price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
SInce I do not actually own the second pair of SAs yet, and I find the in ceilings too expensive.. isnt there an "on ceiling" mountable speaker? Or what "slim bookshelf" as you called would you recommend? Cuz I am now considering, based on your advise, setting my front SAs as heights as per Option 1 in my post, and maybe getting something else I can get overhead for my back ATMOS instead of the SAs...
Many enthusiasts feel the need to buy expensive Atmos ceiling speakers to match the quality and capability of their mains...it's not necessary. Many folks have installed and are pleased with the performance of very inexpensive speakers ($40 - $50 each) like MICCA and Monoprice. Another favorite is the RSL at $125 each. And yet another growing favorite are the Klipsch AW-525 and AW-650 for their mounting and aiming flexibily.

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-M-8C-Ce.../dp/B002YPS6T6

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Alp.../dp/B017BE4CVA

https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-AW-52...000TDAOB8?th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-AW-65...E84BD45W12F107

Example of Indoor/Outdoor speaker type installation...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/image...8df1cc99f4.jpg

Lastly, regardless of your ultimate choice/decision...install four identical/matched Atmos speakers to ensure consistent timbre across the overheads. If you decide to keep the SA's for the front heights...also install SA's for the rear heights.
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Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

Last edited by gene4ht; 02-05-2019 at 12:36 PM. Reason: add links
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post #57371 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
You're welcome....



Keep in mind that pricing on the Klipsch site is MSRP....call any authorized internet dealer for the actual "far less street" price.



Many enthusiasts feel the need to buy expensive Atmos ceiling speakers to match the quality and capability of their mains...it's not necessary. Many folks have installed and are pleased with the performance of very inexpensive speakers ($40 - $50 each) like MICCA and Monoprice. Another favorite is the RSL at $125 each. And yet another growing favorite are the Klipsch AW-525 and AW-650 for their mounting and aiming flexibily.

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-M-8C-Ce.../dp/B002YPS6T6

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Alp.../dp/B017BE4CVA

https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-AW-52...000TDAOB8?th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-AW-65...E84BD45W12F107

Example of Indoor/Outdoor speaker type installation...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/image...8df1cc99f4.jpg

Lastly, regardless of your ultimate choice/decision...install four identical/matched Atmos speakers to ensure consistent timbre across the overheads. If you decide to keep the SA's for the front heights...also install SA's for the rear heights.
Thank you. After much deliberation, I think I am going to install the the SAs as front and rear heights, and get mounts that allow me tilt them down towards the MLP as much as possible. What is the recommended setting for these on my AVR once repositioned?

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57372 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
You're welcome....



Keep in mind that pricing on the Klipsch site is MSRP....call any authorized internet dealer for the actual "far less street" price.



Many enthusiasts feel the need to buy expensive Atmos ceiling speakers to match the quality and capability of their mains...it's not necessary. Many folks have installed and are pleased with the performance of very inexpensive speakers ($40 - $50 each) like MICCA and Monoprice. Another favorite is the RSL at $125 each. And yet another growing favorite are the Klipsch AW-525 and AW-650 for their mounting and aiming flexibily.

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-M-8C-Ce.../dp/B002YPS6T6

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Alp.../dp/B017BE4CVA

https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-AW-52...000TDAOB8?th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-AW-65...E84BD45W12F107

Example of Indoor/Outdoor speaker type installation...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/image...8df1cc99f4.jpg

Lastly, regardless of your ultimate choice/decision...install four identical/matched Atmos speakers to ensure consistent timbre across the overheads. If you decide to keep the SA's for the front heights...also install SA's for the rear heights.
Thanks so much for this post. Really helps me as I'm looking for possible Atmos speakers....right now in my movie room I have 5.1 setup with Denon 2400 and Klipsch speakers

RF-82 tower speakers
RS-52 surround speakers
RC-62 center speaker
SW-310 subwoofer

I'm just looking into Dolby Atmos and had a few questions - it's not available on all movies but just some correct?
Do the speakers have to specifically be "dolby atmos" speakers - some of the in ceiling ones you linked didn't seem to have that specification...
With the in ceiling option I could go 2 or 4 atmos speakers? But an easier install would be the kinds of speakers that just sit on top of my current front speakers (like some of the klipsch SA?) And 2 would be ok in that situation?
And final question, with my above speaker set up, is there a price level or quality level of speakers I should aim to get to match - and with this setup would I notice a significant difference in my movie watching?

Thanks so much in advance!
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post #57373 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
Thank you. After much deliberation, I think I am going to install the the SAs as front and rear heights, and get mounts that allow me tilt them down towards the MLP as much as possible. What is the recommended setting for these on my AVR once repositioned?
You will need to rerun Onkyo’s setup and designate the the SA’s as FH and RH...see the diagrams in my original post #57355 . AccuEQ will then recognize the Atmos speakers to establish distance and set the crossover. After setup completes the configuration, play some Atmos content and adjust the Atmos speaker levels to taste. Note that the quality of Atmos content can vary from studio to studio and film to film. Also, if you have not lowered you side surrounds, you may experience muddled and/or inaccurate object placement. If this is the case, reposition the side surrounds and rerun AccuEQ.

Since we’re bordering on being OT here, it would be better served, if necessary, to continue this discussion in the Atmos thread. Good luck with your new configuration and moving forward!
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Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

Last edited by gene4ht; 02-06-2019 at 03:44 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #57374 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
You will need to rerun Onkyo’s setup and designate the the SA’s as FH and RH...see the diagrams in my original post #57355 . AccuEQ will then recognize the Atmos speakers to establish distance and set the crossover. After setup completes the configuration, play some Atmos content and adjust the Atmos speaker levels to taste. Note that the quality of Atmos content can vary from studio to studio and file to film. Also, if you have not lowered you side surrounds, you may experience muddled and/or inaccurate object placement. If this is the case, reposition the side surrounds and rerun AccuEQ.

Since we’re bordering on being OT here, it would be better served, if necessary, to continue this discussion in the Atmos thread. Good luck with your new configuration and moving forward!
you are the best good sir. Always grateful for your advice!
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My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57375 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcubsfan View Post
Thanks so much for this post. Really helps me as I'm looking for possible Atmos speakers....right now in my movie room I have 5.1 setup with Denon 2400 and Klipsch speakers

RF-82 tower speakers
RS-52 surround speakers
RC-62 center speaker
SW-310 subwoofer

I'm just looking into Dolby Atmos and had a few questions - it's not available on all movies but just some correct?
Do the speakers have to specifically be "dolby atmos" speakers - some of the in ceiling ones you linked didn't seem to have that specification...
With the in ceiling option I could go 2 or 4 atmos speakers? But an easier install would be the kinds of speakers that just sit on top of my current front speakers (like some of the klipsch SA?)
And final question, with my above speaker set up, is there a price level or quality level of speakers I should aim to get to match - and with this setup would I notice a significant difference in my movie watching?

Thanks so much in advance!
Hey there, if you see my signature, my setup is very very close to yours. A few things:
Dolby ATMOS refers more to the technology that implements "above you" channels rather than the speakers themselves. Therefore, there are no "ATMOS" speakers when it comes to in ceilings, other than certain speakers that have met some Dolby standards and stamped the logo in the box.
An exception, however, are the upfiring modules like the RP140SA. These are designed to bounce the sound down through some audio engineering voodoo, so they are definitely certified and set to a dolby standard. But like I said, for what I have seen for all my research, the most important thing about the in ceilings is that they are all the same so that they are timbre matched. You do not have to worry about finding an ATMOS label on them.

Other factors like dispersion and the height of your ceiling need to be factored in your choice of in ceiling vs upfiring modules.
From my research, since I am in a similar boat as you, if you have a ceiling that is sound absorbent, that is, coffered, textured, uneven, etc, upfiring modules will be less than ideal or wont work very well at all. If you have a flat, smooth, textureless ceiling, then the upfiring modules are a fantastic choice.

In my case, I bought the upfiring modules not knowing all of the above at the time. My ceiling is coffered, so it was absorbing the sound instead of bouncing it back, which lead me down the rabbit hole that is the research I have been doing the past few days. The RP140SA in particular were also designed to be utilized as regular speakers and mounted as front or rear heights. When you set them up that way, the engineering upfiring voodoo is skipped by your receiver, as long as you set them up correctly.

You can have as many in ceiling ATMOS speakers as your AVR can support. In my case, i have a 9.2 channel AVR, which means I can do either 7.1.2 or 5.1.4. I currently have a 7.1.2 configuration, but I am upgrading to a 5.1.4, because by most accounts, having 4 ATMOS channels with 5 surround is a lot better sounding than having 2 ATMOS channels with 7 surround, because the back surrounds in a 7.1 system hardly ever get any content, where as the ATMOS channels get a lot more content.

To answer the movie question, yes only certain movies have an ATMOS track,just like only certain movies have 5.1 or a 7.1 track. Most do nowadays, but if you watch a lot of international stuff like I do you will come across your fair share of 2.0 tracks

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57376 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 10:49 PM
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Hey there, if you see my signature, my setup is very very close to yours. A few things:
Dolby ATMOS refers more to the technology that implements "above you" channels rather than the speakers themselves. Therefore, there are no "ATMOS" speakers when it comes to in ceilings, other than certain speakers that have met some Dolby standards and stamped the logo in the box.
An exception, however, are the upfiring modules like the RP140SA. These are designed to bounce the sound down through some audio engineering voodoo, so they are definitely certified and set to a dolby standard. But like I said, for what I have seen for all my research, the most important thing about the in ceilings is that they are all the same so that they are timbre matched. You do not have to worry about finding an ATMOS label on them.

Other factors like dispersion and the height of your ceiling need to be factored in your choice of in ceiling vs upfiring modules.
From my research, since I am in a similar boat as you, if you have a ceiling that is sound absorbent, that is, coffered, textured, uneven, etc, upfiring modules will be less than ideal or wont work very well at all. If you have a flat, smooth, textureless ceiling, then the upfiring modules are a fantastic choice.

In my case, I bought the upfiring modules not knowing all of the above at the time. My ceiling is coffered, so it was absorbing the sound instead of bouncing it back, which lead me down the rabbit hole that is the research I have been doing the past few days. The RP140SA in particular were also designed to be utilized as regular speakers and mounted as front or rear heights. When you set them up that way, the engineering upfiring voodoo is skipped by your receiver, as long as you set them up correctly.

You can have as many in ceiling ATMOS speakers as your AVR can support. In my case, i have a 9.2 channel AVR, which means I can do either 7.1.2 or 5.1.4. I currently have a 7.1.2 configuration, but I am upgrading to a 5.1.4, because by most accounts, having 4 ATMOS channels with 5 surround is a lot better sounding than having 2 ATMOS channels with 7 surround, because the back surrounds in a 7.1 system hardly ever get any content, where as the ATMOS channels get a lot more content.

To answer the movie question, yes only certain movies have an ATMOS track,just like only certain movies have 5.1 or a 7.1 track. Most do nowadays, but if you watch a lot of international stuff like I do you will come across your fair share of 2.0 tracks
Houston TX! Thanks for the answers. I uploaded a small thumbnail of our movie room, from what you're saying sounds like adding 2 front SA speakers would do the trick, not to mention the cheapest and easiest install versus in ceiling - then we'd have almost identical setups! This would make my setup 5.1.2 correct (with 2 referring to Atmos so I can figure out how to program in my receiver)?
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post #57377 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 10:57 PM
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With upfiring speakers, do ceiling fans come in to play if the sound will be passing through the path of the ceiling fan?

Samsung 65" KS8000
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post #57378 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 11:09 PM
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Houston TX! Thanks for the answers. I uploaded a small thumbnail of our movie room, from what you're saying sounds like adding 2 front SA speakers would do the trick, not to mention the cheapest and easiest install versus in ceiling - then we'd have almost identical setups! This would make my setup 5.1.2 correct (with 2 referring to Atmos so I can figure out how to program in my receiver)?
Yes! Correct. however, I would encourage you to do them as front heights rather than firing modules, but seems like your room is easily suited to experimenting setting them up as heights vs upfiring modules as you have that "shelf" at the top of your ceiling above your tv.

While your ceiling is flat textured, the shape of it might present a problem for bouncing the sound correctly.

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57379 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 11:11 PM
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With upfiring speakers, do ceiling fans come in to play if the sound will be passing through the path of the ceiling fan?
from what I have researched, yes.
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My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57380 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 11:13 PM
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Thanks so much for this post. Really helps me as I'm looking for possible Atmos speakers....right now in my movie room I have 5.1 setup with Denon 2400 and Klipsch speakers

RF-82 tower speakers
RS-52 surround speakers
RC-62 center speaker
SW-310 subwoofer

I'm just looking into Dolby Atmos and had a few questions - it's not available on all movies but just some correct?
Correct...When Atmos was first introduced, Atmos became available on many newer BluRays. However, with the introduction of 4K UHD BluRays, studios elected to include Atmos only on 4K UHD BluRays. However, most folks new to Atmos are not aware of an excellent added benefit of an Atmos capable system/configuration. Along with the Atmos codec, AVR's and PrePros include the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU). The benefit is that DSU will upmix non-Atmos discs/content to take advantage of the Atmos speakers. Bottom line, users have found that utilizing DSU to play older discs in one's collection results in near Atmos performance!

Note: The back cover will indicate if the disc contains Atmos.

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Do the speakers have to specifically be "dolby atmos" speakers - some of the in ceiling ones you linked didn't seem to have that specification...
No...there is no such thing as an Atmos speaker. Any direct radiating speaker with wide dispersion characteristics will perform well for Atmos. Some manufacturers may/will label speakers as Atmos speakers for sales and marketing purposes. The exception are the upfiring reflective type speakers more accurately known as Dolby Atmos Enabled Speakers (DAES) which were specifically designed to be used where it was not desired or possible to install better performing ceiling speakers.

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With the in ceiling option I could go 2 or 4 atmos speakers?
Two speakers will provide a minimal level of Atmos performance while four is preferred to provide a more accurate level of immersion...particularly realistic front to rear pans. This being said, the Denon 2400 is a 7.1 channel AVR and therefore limited to 2 Atmos speakers in a 5.1.2 configuration. To accommodate 4 Atmos speakers, a 9.1 channel AVR upgrade capable of 5.1.4 would be necessary.

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But an easier install would be the kinds of speakers that just sit on top of my current front speakers (like some of the klipsch SA?)
Yes an easier install...but the least Atmos effective. The best is an "on" or "in" ceiling speaker followed by front and rear height speakers with the upfiring, reflective, bouncy types the least effective.

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And final question, with my above speaker set up, is there a price level or quality level of speakers I should aim to get to match - and with this setup would I notice a significant difference in my movie watching?
Herein is the debate: Because of old school carryover about timber matching the front stage speakers...primarily for music...many feel it's necessary to timbre match the Atmos speakers. These same folks and particularly sales and marketing folks find arguments for buying the same brand and quality speakers for Atmos. In reality, particularly for movies, Atmos speakers do not have heavy demands on them from a content perspective. Atmos speaker duty has been limited to ambient effects...i.e. wind, rain, insects, birds, rustling leaves, etc. Most speakers (inexpensive, expensive, or otherwise) would not be challenged by current content. Enthusiasts in these threads have spent/installed $40 to $400 each for Atmos speakers...all reporting and experiencing good performance. To answer your question, ask listeners if they prefer hearing bird chirps and raindrops from a $40 or $400 speaker.

Lastly, as I previously mentioned, it would be better served to continue Atmos discussions in the appropriate Atmos thread where there is an abundance of knowledge and information...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...sion-1783.html
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Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

Last edited by gene4ht; 02-06-2019 at 04:37 AM.
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post #57381 of 58330 Old 02-05-2019, 11:33 PM
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With upfiring speakers, do ceiling fans come in to play if the sound will be passing through the path of the ceiling fan?

Any obstruction or boundary in the sound's path will result in some degree of diffusion and diminish Atmos effects and accuracy. Depending on the degree of interference, this may or may not be tolerable...only experimentation can reveal its effect(s). There is a general consensus among experienced Atmos users that have become Atmos conventional wisdom: (1) Atmos guidelines are just guidelines...precision is fine but variance is OK (2) All of us have some degree of room constraint (3) always experiment with what you have (4) it's hard to get Atmos wrong and (5) some Atmos is better than no Atmos. Hope this helps and puts everyone in a positive frame of mind! Good luck all!
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Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
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post #57382 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 04:51 AM
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As always, every room is different. My living room ceiling slopes up to a point, and my up firing speakers are 9 feet from the ceiling, it still works well.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F / 55R615
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post #57383 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 09:59 AM
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As always, every room is different. My living room ceiling slopes up to a point, and my up firing speakers are 9 feet from the ceiling, it still works well.
My neighbors ceiling is the same and he asked me about this. Thanks for posting this he is on a budget so I asked him to wait on more speakers and do some research.

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post #57384 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 10:02 AM
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My neighbors ceiling is the same and he asked me about this. Thanks for posting this he is on a budget so I asked him to wait on more speakers and do some research.
I have a shallow cathedral type ceiling, Atmos still works. It does narrow the sweet spot though.

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post #57385 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 04:52 PM
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When I run my Atmos CES disc on pink noise tone to either 500SA, and look up, you'd swear it was coming from the ceiling. The dogs look up too, its hilarious.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F / 55R615
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post #57386 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 05:00 PM
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What is the practical difference between 500sa and 140sa when it comes to the "switchable crossover"
They make it sound like only the 500 sa can be used as something other than up firing which isn't true. So what difference does the crossover switch make?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57387 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
What is the practical difference between 500sa and 140sa when it comes to the "switchable crossover"
They make it sound like only the 500 sa can be used as something other than up firing which isn't true. So what difference does the crossover switch make?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F / 55R615
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AVRX6500H / RP-8000F / RP-504C / RP-502S / FV15HP
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post #57388 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 06:26 PM
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Lol thanks for the honesty

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57389 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
What is the practical difference between 500sa and 140sa when it comes to the "switchable crossover"
They make it sound like only the 500 sa can be used as something other than up firing which isn't true. So what difference does the crossover switch make?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
We implemented the switch because some believe the Atmos network has a negative impact when using the speaker as a traditional surround.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
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post #57390 of 58330 Old 02-06-2019, 07:50 PM
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We implemented the switch because some believe the Atmos network has a negative impact when using the speaker as a traditional surround.

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Doesnt how you set them in the AVR settings do effectively the same thing?

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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