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post #57391 of 58331 Old 02-06-2019, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
Doesnt how you set them in the AVR settings do effectively the same thing?
Nope, what the AVR does when set to Atmos enabled is a mystery.


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post #57392 of 58331 Old 02-06-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by itsmyforte View Post
Nope, what the AVR does when set to Atmos enabled is a mystery.


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I meant, on the 500SA, if you say wanna switch from using them as upfiring to using them as front heights, you flip the switch, and presumably also set it up as such on the AVR.

On the 140SA, if you want to do the same, you simply change them from upfiring to front heights in the settings.

Is the crossover switch doing anything additional?

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57393 of 58331 Old 02-06-2019, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
I meant, on the 500SA, if you say wanna switch from using them as upfiring to using them as front heights, you flip the switch, and presumably also set it up as such on the AVR.



On the 140SA, if you want to do the same, you simply change them from upfiring to front heights in the settings.



Is the crossover switch doing anything additional?
The setting you choose in the AVR is purely positional and affects all speakers the same. The switch in the 500sa simply converts it from a DAES to a traditional 2-way speaker that you can use it however you see fit.

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post #57394 of 58331 Old 02-06-2019, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by itsmyforte View Post
The setting you choose in the AVR is purely positional and affects all speakers the same. The switch in the 500sa simply converts it from a DAES to a traditional 2-way speaker that you can use it however you see fit.

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I have a pair of 140SA now. I am looking to get a second pair so i can switch from upfiring to front and rear heghts. Do you think the 500sa is worth the additional 200 dollars just for the switch? I know they also have bigger woofers, but I cannot imagine it matters that much for a speaker dedicated to sound effects. I guess I had misunderstood. It was marketed that the 140SA could be used as front heights as well. I had assumed that when you switched to such on the AVR, the speaker would automatically stop doing the bouncing engineering voodoo. But from what I am understanding, since the 140SA dont have the switch, if I mount them as front and rear heights, its still gonna try to be doing bouncy engineering voodoo? And the only way to stop that is having a switch like the 500SA? If that is so, then that means that the 140SA cannot in fact be used as anything other than upfiring modules?

My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57395 of 58331 Old 02-06-2019, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
I have a pair of 140SA now. I am looking to get a second pair so i can switch from upfiring to front and rear heghts. Do you think the 500sa is worth the additional 200 dollars just for the switch? I know they also have bigger woofers, but I cannot imagine it matters that much for a speaker dedicated to sound effects. I guess I had misunderstood. It was marketed that the 140SA could be used as front heights as well. I had assumed that when you switched to such on the AVR, the speaker would automatically stop doing the bouncing engineering voodoo. But from what I am understanding, since the 140SA dont have the switch, if I mount them as front and rear heights, its still gonna try to be doing bouncy engineering voodoo? And the only way to stop that is having a switch like the 500SA? If that is so, then that means that the 140SA cannot in fact be used as anything other than upfiring modules?
You can use the 140sa as any kind of speaker you like. Yes, the voodoo is in place but I don't feel it's a big deal if used as any kind of surround style speaker. Your reaction is exactly the reason we added the switch. I can't advise you how to spend your money, but I would prefer to have matching surrounds.

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post #57396 of 58331 Old 02-07-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post
They make it sound like only the 500 sa can be used as something other than up firing which isn't true.
Technically, it is true. However, if you're using the speakers as actual Atmos speakers (either up high or reflecting off ceiling) the DSSE filter shouldn't cause any large ill-effects. That said, because of the switch, the 500SA could also be used as traditional, ear-level surrounds if one so needed (consider a situation in which surround placement is tricky).

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post #57397 of 58331 Old 02-07-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by p3trol_h3ad View Post
This is false. The switch is exactly what allows the speaker to be used in other "non-Atmos" or non-height locations.
I think you misread. I meant that they make it sound like only the 500 sa can be used as something other than up firing and the 140sa can't. It's what I meant

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My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57398 of 58331 Old 02-07-2019, 10:02 AM
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I just edited my post for clarity. Technically, the 140SA isn't ideal as a high-mounted, down-firing, direct radiating Atmos speaker.. but we are splitting hairs at that point.

Personally, I disagree with itsmyforte, and I would never use the 140SA as a surround speaker. BUT, he probably knows more than I do about this hobby, and the difference there may also be tiny. Still, I'd think the voodoo might have some ill-effects depending on the content.

In fact, the only reason I know anything about these Atmos speakers is because I was considering using the 140SA as my surround speakers. Unfortunately, I decided it wasn't a good idea (my opinion, for what it's worth). The 500SA would work for me, but they cost considerably more and also don't match my current RP line (the outgoing models), so I've decided to look elsewhere.

Cheers

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post #57399 of 58331 Old 02-07-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3trol_h3ad View Post
I just edited my post for clarity. Technically, the 140SA isn't ideal as a high-mounted, down-firing, direct radiating Atmos speaker.. but we are splitting hairs at that point.



Personally, I disagree with itsmyforte, and I would never use the 140SA as a surround speaker. BUT, he probably knows more than I do about this hobby, and the difference there may also be tiny. Still, I'd think the voodoo might have some ill-effects depending on the content.



In fact, the only reason I know anything about these Atmos speakers is because I was considering using the 140SA as my surround speakers. Unfortunately, I decided it wasn't a good idea (my opinion, for what it's worth). The 500SA would work for me, but they cost considerably more and also don't match my current RP line (the outgoing models), so I've decided to look elsewhere.



Cheers
Thanks. I'm not using them as surrounds but as front Heights. The only reason I'm even doing That is because many have reported better results with these that way Than their intended up firing feature. I'm always inclined to trust first hand experiences.

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My Current setup (5.1.4):
Display - LG 65 inch OLED C7 // Receiver - Onkyo RZ1100
Fronts - Klispch RF-82IIs // Center - Klipsch RC-62II
Side Surrounds - Klispch RS-42IIs // Rear ATMOS (RH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
Subwoofeer - Klipsch R-115SW // Front ATMOS (FH) - Klipsch RP-140SAs
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post #57400 of 58331 Old 02-08-2019, 05:18 AM
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Has anybody compared the RP5000f to the RP6000f?


My room is about 1500 cu ft. These will be primarily TV and movies with occasional music. Moderate listening levels with the occasional bump up to reference level when the wife is out.
All speakers are set to small with crossover at 80hz. I'm using an SVS sub and newly acquired RP450c which I love btw.

I've been doing some reading on 5.25 vs 6.5 woofers and the consensus seems to be that it's more about overall design than size. With these two being part of the same line I assumed they should perform similarly.

Thanks
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post #57401 of 58331 Old 02-08-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jds22 View Post
Has anybody compared the RP5000f to the RP6000f?


My room is about 1500 cu ft. These will be primarily TV and movies with occasional music. Moderate listening levels with the occasional bump up to reference level when the wife is out.
All speakers are set to small with crossover at 80hz. I'm using an SVS sub and newly acquired RP450c which I love btw.

I've been doing some reading on 5.25 vs 6.5 woofers and the consensus seems to be that it's more about overall design than size. With these two being part of the same line I assumed they should perform similarly.

Thanks
Generally speaking, larger drivers have the capability to play louder with less distortion...desirable for larger rooms. The typical rule of thumb is to buy the larger driver if your budget allows...helps eliminate the "what if's" and delays upgraditis!
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post #57402 of 58331 Old 02-08-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Generally speaking, larger drivers have the capability to play louder with less distortion...desirable for larger rooms. The typical rule of thumb is to buy the larger driver if your budget allows...helps eliminate the "what if's" and delays upgraditis!

Good point as I am very susceptible to that.
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post #57403 of 58331 Old 02-08-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jds22 View Post
Has anybody compared the RP5000f to the RP6000f?


My room is about 1500 cu ft. These will be primarily TV and movies with occasional music. Moderate listening levels with the occasional bump up to reference level when the wife is out.
All speakers are set to small with crossover at 80hz. I'm using an SVS sub and newly acquired RP450c which I love btw.

I've been doing some reading on 5.25 vs 6.5 woofers and the consensus seems to be that it's more about overall design than size. With these two being part of the same line I assumed they should perform similarly.

Thanks
Hmm.. couple thoughts.. 1) The 5000 woofers match your center's woofers so you'll have a slightly better "sound stage" with that match.. almost splitting hairs though.. 2) The 5000 have slightly better dispersion if it matters.. nice if you're close to them.. also probably splitting hairs. Yeah the 6000 can handle a bit more power. I think you'd have to really push the speakers to notice any differences.. and even then it wouldn't be night and day.

If it was me, I'd go with the 6000. They're a good sweet spot between the 5000 and 8000. Personally, when I got my 260's (6000's basically), I had a bit of envy when viewing the 280's (8000). However that quickly diminished as I learned about dispersion, sound stage, etc. I think the larger 8" woofers would be ideal for 2 channel music listening, but I wholeheartedly believe that the 5.25" or 6.5" woofers are better for dual purpose (music and home theater) applications where a sub-woofer is involved. Unless you're in a really, really large room, the 6000's (or even 5000's) should handle reference volume with ease.

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post #57404 of 58331 Old 02-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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I agree with Gene and P3trol.
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post #57405 of 58331 Old 02-08-2019, 02:00 PM
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RP-160 fronts
RP-150 rears
RP-250 center

What's everyone's opinion?

Mainly movies. Will add a Svs sub more than likely. I did hear the RP-250s which are more. Real big benefit?
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post #57406 of 58331 Old 02-08-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Clipse View Post
RP-160 fronts
RP-150 rears
RP-250 center

What's everyone's opinion?

Mainly movies. Will add a Svs sub more than likely. I did hear the RP-250s which are more. Real big benefit?
The RP-250s will be able to play a little louder, that will probably be the only real benefit once you get the subwoofer. They will probably play with a little more authority in the bass, but with the subwoofer, not really important.
I had the RP-150 for a short period, they sounded great, but at the volumes I listen at, I would have blown them out in no time, which is the main reason I have the RP-280f. The ability to play crazy loud.
What you have, with a subwoofer or two, will sound great at sane levels.
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post #57407 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 07:31 AM
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Man, 3.2.2 setup really sounded great on First Man. IMO, this new line is more mellow than any Klipsch line I have owned (horn wise).
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post #57408 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Clipse View Post
RP-160 fronts
RP-150 rears
RP-250 center

What's everyone's opinion?

Mainly movies. Will add a Svs sub more than likely. I did hear the RP-250s which are more. Real big benefit?
OK I have the option for RP240SB instead of the 150s for rears. Should I step up? Not much price difference
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post #57409 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 04:47 PM
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Hi all,

I am looking to do a new dedicated home theatre (projector, screen) and hoping to do 5.2.4.

My room size is 5000mm (16.4 ft) x 5470mm (17.9 ft). Ceilings are 2.7m (9 ft). The projector and screen are going to go on the walls that are 5470mm.

Here is a jpg of the room, note where the window and door is.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rxxjjvv5dx6dbwq/HT.JPG?dl=0

Seating will be roughly where the door ends giving me roughly 1m to rear wall. The surrounds will be going on the side walls towards the rear roughly in line with seating.

What I am most likely doing is going with:

x2 KLIPSCH RP6000F

KLIPSCH RP504 centre

x2 SVS PB-2000s

x4 in-ceiling Atmos speakers (TBA)

I'm stuck on the surrounds. I had 1 hifi place recommend the KLIPSCH RP-502Ss which I have since researched is not the best set-up to have with in ceiling Atmos as they are dipoles (shame as they look great!). Another recommened B&W bipoles (why move away from Klipsch?).

I've had someone else recommend in-walls (Klipsch PRO-16RW) but it's very difficult to demo these in stores and it would be more of a leap of faith. I imagine higher installation cost too (and kind of locked into in-walls for the future). This guy has been doing installs for 18 years though so I trust his advice.

Any other suggestions are very welcome, thank you!
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post #57410 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Clipse View Post
OK I have the option for RP240SB instead of the 150s for rears. Should I step up? Not much price difference
RP-240SB? Is that RP-240S(Black)? What kind of room and position are you using? Most likely, the 150s would be better and also cheaper...

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post #57411 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 05:44 PM
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Tonight will be my last night of listening to my R-15M. R-25C is already boxed up for sale. Really liked these speakers!

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post #57412 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 06:05 PM
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Tonight will be my last night of listening to my R-15M. R-25C is already boxed up for sale. Really liked these speakers!
I have these same speakers in guest bedroom for PS4 with one of my old Klipsch Sub 12". 3.1 rocks the room for games. The VR Head Set Sky rim is fun.
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post #57413 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 06:11 PM
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If I am using four RP-500SA speakers as front and rear heights mounted where the ceiling and wall meet, is it a big deal if the front and rears are at two different heights relative to listening position? In the rear there is a soffit that lowers where I can position those speakers by about 10 inches compared to the front heights.


Is it OK for them to be different or should I plan to mount my front heights lower to have them at the same level as the rear heights?


Thanks!
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post #57414 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindernat View Post
What I am most likely doing is going with:

x2 KLIPSCH RP6000F

KLIPSCH RP504 centre

x2 SVS PB-2000s

x4 in-ceiling Atmos speakers (TBA)
Nice...you will be happy with the performance of this system!

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Originally Posted by cindernat View Post
I'm stuck on the surrounds. I had 1 hifi place recommend the KLIPSCH RP-502Ss which I have since researched is not the best set-up to have with in ceiling Atmos as they are dipoles (shame as they look great!).
The 502S's are not dipoles. Klipsch coins/markets this design as Wide Dispersion Sound Technology (WDST)...which is actually a "bipole." As you've noted, general consensus and conventional wisdom do not recommend "dipoles" for surrounds in Atmos applications...whereas, both monopoles and bipoles are recommended depending on the relationship of seating to surround speaker location. If there is significant distance between the left and right most seating positions and the surrounds...monopoles (direct) work well. If the distance between seating and surrounds is minimal, bipoles (diffuse-indirect) are preferred. The object/reasoning is to prevent "hot spotting" and/or blasting into the listener's ear. I have the RS-62 II's which are the design predecessors to the 502S mounted 3 feet from and slightly above ear height. They perform very well and "look great!"

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Originally Posted by cindernat View Post
Another recommened B&W bipoles (why move away from Klipsch?).
I'm sure the B&W bipoles would also perform well if seating is close. But as a Klipsch fan in this thread, I prefer and would recommend the 502S...to match and better integrate into the Klipsch system environment.

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Originally Posted by cindernat View Post
I've had someone else recommend in-walls (Klipsch PRO-16RW) but it's very difficult to demo these in stores and it would be more of a leap of faith. I imagine higher installation cost too (and kind of locked into in-walls for the future). This guy has been doing installs for 18 years though so I trust his advice.
The in walls would also work well (generally when there must be WAF and/or real estate compromises/constraints) for surround duties with the same caveats as monopoles. Keep in mind that surrounds and Atmos speakers carry primarily cues and ambient sound effects...not the more critical information L, C, and R and LFE that subs do. I wouldn't consider a demo of surrounds an absolute necessity...only for perhaps curiosity purposes. You've already noted that in walls could prove to be more costly to install and be less flexible for movement in the future. Lastly, depending on architectural conditions, backer boxes for in wall speakers may be necessary to limit/minimize sound transmission to other rooms or parts of the home. Good luck with your decision.
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post #57415 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WisconsinEric View Post
If I am using four RP-500SA speakers as front and rear heights mounted where the ceiling and wall meet, is it a big deal if the front and rears are at two different heights relative to listening position? In the rear there is a soffit that lowers where I can position those speakers by about 10 inches compared to the front heights.


Is it OK for them to be different or should I plan to mount my front heights lower to have them at the same level as the rear heights?


Thanks!
Likely, the difference will be negligible...room correction can compensate for some of this but...

Every room/environment has some type/kind of constraint. See my previous post....it's hard to get Atmos wrong...don't overthink things...the key is experimentation...temporarily position the speakers in various positions on ladders, attached to 2x4's against leaned the wall, friends standing on chairs, etc. and listen to familiar material.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57557730

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post #57416 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by WisconsinEric View Post
If I am using four RP-500SA speakers as front and rear heights mounted where the ceiling and wall meet, is it a big deal if the front and rears are at two different heights relative to listening position? In the rear there is a soffit that lowers where I can position those speakers by about 10 inches compared to the front heights.


Is it OK for them to be different or should I plan to mount my front heights lower to have them at the same level as the rear heights?


Thanks!
I'm in the process of setting up my new theater room, and I hope it's OK to set them up like that, because I recently mounted mine to the walls in a situation just like yours. After taking measurements and placing my seating appropriately, the angles (when viewed from the side) fall within the Dolby guidelines. I'm right at 55 deg. for the fronts, and a bit less than 150 deg. for the rears. I plan on assigning them as top front and top rear speakers.

Note: Don't mind the rear surround speaker "stands" which are my old Pioneer towers. I just have the 502S sitting on there for purposes of being able to see them at a height close to what I plan on mounting them on the wall. That sofa will be replaced by 3 theater seats which are a few inches taller, so I may mount them to the rear wall a few inches higher to clear the back of the seats.
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post #57417 of 58331 Old 02-09-2019, 10:42 PM
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Nice...you will be happy with the performance of this system!



The 502S's are not dipoles. Klipsch coins/markets this design as Wide Dispersion Sound Technology (WDST)...which is actually a "bipole." As you've noted, general consensus and conventional wisdom do not recommend "dipoles" for surrounds in Atmos applications...whereas, both monopoles and bipoles are recommended depending on the relationship of seating to surround speaker location. If there is significant distance between the left and right most seating positions and the surrounds...monopoles (direct) work well. If the distance between seating and surrounds is minimal, bipoles (diffuse-indirect) are preferred. The object/reasoning is to prevent "hot spotting" and/or blasting into the listener's ear. I have the RS-62 II's which are the design predecessors to the 502S mounted 3 feet from and slightly above ear height. They perform very well and "look great!"

I'm sure the B&W bipoles would also perform well if seating is close. But as a Klipsch fan in this thread, I prefer and would recommend the 502S...to match and better integrate into the Klipsch system environment.

The in walls would also work well (generally when there must be WAF and/or real estate compromises/constraints) for surround duties with the same caveats as monopoles. Keep in mind that surrounds and Atmos speakers carry primarily cues and ambient sound effects...not the more critical information L, C, and R and LFE that subs do. I wouldn't consider a demo of surrounds an absolute necessity...only for perhaps curiosity purposes. You've already noted that in walls could prove to be more costly to install and be less flexible for movement in the future. Lastly, depending on architectural conditions, backer boxes for in wall speakers may be necessary to limit/minimize sound transmission to other rooms or parts of the home. Good luck with your decision.
Thanks very much for your reply. It's very confusing because even the retailer has been calling the 502S's 'dipoles' - lol. Does this 'Wide Dispersion Sound Technology' create that null field that you get with dipoles? I'm guessing no if they are the same as bipoles. Thanks for the info.

Yeah we aren't really space limited although we do plan on having a single, long couch so having in walls could buy us some extra space in terms of distance from the listeners on each end of couch.

I think backer boxes will be needed as you mention if we do go that path.

I'll let you know how I go, thanks!
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post #57418 of 58331 Old 02-10-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cindernat View Post
Thanks very much for your reply. It's very confusing because even the retailer has been calling the 502S's 'dipoles' - lol. Does this 'Wide Dispersion Sound Technology' create that null field that you get with dipoles? I'm guessing no if they are the same as bipoles. Thanks for the info.

Yeah we aren't really space limited although we do plan on having a single, long couch so having in walls could buy us some extra space in terms of distance from the listeners on each end of couch.

I think backer boxes will be needed as you mention if we do go that path.

I'll let you know how I go, thanks!
Agreed, the term WDST is a bit ambiguous and somewhat confusing. In fact, I must amend my response. Per @itsmyforte of Klipsch, the WDST surrounds are neither bipoles or dipoles but rather wide dispersion monopoles...so no nulls, look great, and from my experience...works great.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57195374
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post #57419 of 58331 Old 02-10-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Agreed, the term WDST is a bit ambiguous and somewhat confusing. In fact, I must amend my response. Per @itsmyforte of Klipsch, the WDST surrounds are neither bipoles or dipoles but rather wide dispersion monopoles...so no nulls, look great, and from my experience...works great.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...l#post57195374
It's true, Klipsch surrounds stand out from the norm in their design. As previously stated, they do not have a null point. They do best at 90 degree position or slightly offset if used between two rows of seats.

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post #57420 of 58331 Old 02-10-2019, 07:42 AM
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IS possible for me to put 4 klipsch rp-280f from my room ,now I have paradigm monitor 11 and 9 and cc390 center but I have chance for very good price for rp-280f.


Eventually depend what you think I put my monitor 11 to back and I put 2 rp280f front left and front right and surround left and surround right .


this set up mélange klipsch front 4 rp28f and back I keep monitor 11 and monitor 9 and center cc390.




you think this set up have he good sound.


thank you for your answer.

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