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post #58081 of 58343 Old 07-25-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sddp View Post
the side surround is about 110 degrees, but if I lower the sides it would have to be way in front of the MLP maybe 80 degrees if I have it right at ear level.
If the surround speaker is too high, you can't feel the separation of the "floor" & "height" effects. It can be a bit higher than ear level, just not the "standard" 2-3 feet above. The side surround should be adjacent to the listening position or a bit behind, so 90'-110' and I'm afraid if it's a bit in front, then you will lose the back effects. A little further back or back wall? (I tried both - sides or back wall; On L/R side walls you will get better/stronger side effects, but less back - not as accurate; On back walls you get better/stronger back effects, but smaller sides - feels mostly L/R moves on the front. I like the side walls more, but now put them back to back wall.)

DOLBY ATMOS 5.2.4 - Yamaha RX-A2080 - Klipsch RP-280F - RP-450C - RP-250S - RP-140SA - R-112SW - LG OLED 55B7 - HiMedia Q30 - Xbox One X SE
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post #58082 of 58343 Old 07-25-2019, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Renatto View Post
If the surround speaker is too high, you can't feel the separation of the "floor" & "height" effects. It can be a bit higher than ear level, just not the "standard" 2-3 feet above. The side surround should be adjacent to the listening position or a bit behind, so 90'-110' and I'm afraid if it's a bit in front, then you will lose the back effects. A little further back or back wall? (I tried both - sides or back wall; On L/R side walls you will get better/stronger side effects, but less back - not as accurate; On back walls you get better/stronger back effects, but smaller sides - feels mostly L/R moves on the front. I like the side walls more, but now put them back to back wall.)


Thanks
I have 4 surrounds and 4 ATMOS. The 4 ATMOS are to dolby specs and I am good with that. 52degreen each one from the MLP.


The back surrounds I can bring down or up very easily of course. But the sides? I can build a fake wall and drop it about 1.5' OR it would not be in Dolby's specified 90-110 and in front of my MLP at 80 degrees and have been pondering this delimma for a year now. Attached pics for what I am up against. Any advice would be appreciated
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EPSON 5040UBE | DENON X6400H | XBOX ONE X\PS4 | EMOTIVA XPA-7 GEN 2 |EMOTIVA XPA-3 GEN 3 | ELITE SCREEN 150" ZEREO EDGE W/LED KIT
9.3.4 SURROUND SYSTEM ALL KLIPSCH | L&R RF-7II | CENTER RC64II |FRONT HEIGHTS 2 x RB-81II | 4 SURROUNDS RS-62II | 4 ATMOS CDT-5800 | SUBS R112SW & 2 x R115SW
VEFXI 3D-BEE DIAMOND (2D TO 3D CONVERTER) | DARBE VISION DVP-5000S | LOGITECH HARMONY 800
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post #58083 of 58343 Old 07-26-2019, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sddp View Post
Thanks
I have 4 surrounds and 4 ATMOS. The 4 ATMOS are to dolby specs and I am good with that. 52degreen each one from the MLP.


The back surrounds I can bring down or up very easily of course. But the sides? I can build a fake wall and drop it about 1.5' OR it would not be in Dolby's specified 90-110 and in front of my MLP at 80 degrees and have been pondering this delimma for a year now. Attached pics for what I am up against. Any advice would be appreciated
I see, not easy. You should try to put them under 5 feet, so lowering them 1.5' from 9' won't be enough (if I understand right). Before build anything, first lower the backs, recalibrate and check the difference. After, lower the sides to the place you could put (80 degrees, in front). Just on boxes yet or else, so around 3-4 feet high. Recalibrate and check > mostly the "back sounds", so they coming from the back. Maybe you will hear everything great, because the rear surrounds, help You out and push the back, but you have to try this, I think.
Finally You can try on the recommended 90-100 to hear the recommended speaker sounding.

I usually used my Front speakers boxes to check placement, but finally I always put them on walls. However many of my friends uses speaker stands, because the "open room" problem, like Yours.


PS: Can't you move the MLP in front a bit to get 90 degrees on the side?

DOLBY ATMOS 5.2.4 - Yamaha RX-A2080 - Klipsch RP-280F - RP-450C - RP-250S - RP-140SA - R-112SW - LG OLED 55B7 - HiMedia Q30 - Xbox One X SE

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post #58084 of 58343 Old 07-26-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatto View Post
The 4000 - with 4" woofers - is way small for front, I think. (My RP-140SA Atmos speakers have a 4" woofer.) So yes, I vote for the 5000.

RP-4000F: https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fb...-Sheet_v01.pdf

RP-5000F: https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fb...-Sheet_v01.pdf

For movies a subwoofer is a must have.
Ugh, the RP4000's came today. Did a listening to test for an hour with various types of music. They sound incredible, don't get me wrong, but without a subwoofer the low end seems lacking. These are my only real pair of speakers so it's hard to compare but just from watching youtube videos of sound tests from the rp5000f's with headphones, the bass response seems much greater than my 4000's.

May return them to amazon and get the 5000's. I feel bad since I first started out with the r625fa's and returned those after being disappointed. the 4000's are miles better but I think I may trade them in for the 5000's and forgo getting a sub. Am I dick for doing that? I wonder if they are able to just repackage and resell as refurbished. Still must be taking a loss.

And again don't get me wrong. The 4" woofers looks incredibly dinky but they really do pack a punch for their size. I think I'm still left wanting a little though.
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post #58085 of 58343 Old 07-26-2019, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatto View Post
The 4000 - with 4" woofers - is way small for front, I think. (My RP-140SA Atmos speakers have a 4" woofer.) So yes, I vote for the 5000.

RP-4000F: https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fb...-Sheet_v01.pdf

RP-5000F: https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fb...-Sheet_v01.pdf

For movies a subwoofer is a must have.
Ugh, the RP4000's came today. Did a listening to test for an hour with various types of music. They sound incredible, don't get me wrong, but without a subwoofer the low end seems lacking. These are my only real pair of speakers so it's hard to compare but just from watching youtube videos of sound tests from the rp5000f's with headphones, the bass response seems much greater than my 4000's.

May return them to amazon and get the 5000's. I feel bad since I first started out with the r625fa's and returned those after being disappointed. the 4000's are miles better but I think I may trade them in for the 5000's and forgo getting a sub. Am I dick for doing that? I wonder if they are able to just repackage and resell as refurbished. Still must be taking a loss.

And again don't get me wrong. The 4" woofers looks incredibly dinky but they really do pack a punch for their size. I think I'm still left wanting a little though.
A good sub would still be recommended. Even the 5000's probably aren't going to dig very deep. I have the older RF-62II's, and while the bass is good on them, they are no match for my sub in the lower frequency range. 👍
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post #58086 of 58343 Old 07-26-2019, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
Ugh, the RP4000's came today. Did a listening to test for an hour with various types of music. They sound incredible, don't get me wrong, but without a subwoofer the low end seems lacking. These are my only real pair of speakers so it's hard to compare but just from watching youtube videos of sound tests from the rp5000f's with headphones, the bass response seems much greater than my 4000's.

May return them to amazon and get the 5000's. I feel bad since I first started out with the r625fa's and returned those after being disappointed. the 4000's are miles better but I think I may trade them in for the 5000's and forgo getting a sub. Am I dick for doing that? I wonder if they are able to just repackage and resell as refurbished. Still must be taking a loss.

And again don't get me wrong. The 4" woofers looks incredibly dinky but they really do pack a punch for their size. I think I'm still left wanting a little though.
IMO and experience, until you have at least 8”-10” drivers, a sub is necessary for music and an absolute must for movies. And no need to feel bad for returning product. Consumers have the right to get the product performance they expect and paid for. Retailers have both the means and margin for reselling/disposing of returned goods.
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Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

Last edited by gene4ht; 07-26-2019 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #58087 of 58343 Old 07-26-2019, 10:17 PM
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Cmon man. I had RF7iis and that still couldn’t hang with a sub. Buy a sub.
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post #58088 of 58343 Old 07-26-2019, 11:13 PM
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So now the question is get a sub or get the 5000's and a sub? Would I notice a difference assuming I have a sub if I upgraded to the 5000's or would that sub cancel out any benefit? For both movies and music.

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post #58089 of 58343 Old 07-27-2019, 12:42 AM
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Recommendations for side surrounds for atmos?

My L shaped couch is located against the side wall. This causes the right side surround to be extremely close. The left side ends up being up being much further..

Would it be better to go with the 500sa above the MLP? Or go with the 402s? (502s are too wide for my placement)

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post #58090 of 58343 Old 07-27-2019, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
So now the question is get a sub or get the 5000's and a sub? Would I notice a difference assuming I have a sub if I upgraded to the 5000's or would that sub cancel out any benefit? For both movies and music.

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Get a sub, no matter what speakers you end up with. Towers just can't do justice to blockbuster movies, and while the bigger Klipsch towers will handle most music just fine, a good sub will handle the bottom two octaves even better. I listen mostly to music, and my subs just add a little presence the towers don't have by themselves.

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post #58091 of 58343 Old 07-27-2019, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
So now the question is get a sub or get the 5000's and a sub? Would I notice a difference assuming I have a sub if I upgraded to the 5000's or would that sub cancel out any benefit? For both movies and music.

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First get a subwoofer. Maybe you wouldn't notice difference between 4000 & 5000. For music I don't use sub

DOLBY ATMOS 5.2.4 - Yamaha RX-A2080 - Klipsch RP-280F - RP-450C - RP-250S - RP-140SA - R-112SW - LG OLED 55B7 - HiMedia Q30 - Xbox One X SE

Last edited by Renatto; 07-27-2019 at 01:35 AM.
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post #58092 of 58343 Old 07-27-2019, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by toy4x View Post
Recommendations for side surrounds for atmos?

Would it be better to go with the 500sa above the MLP? Or go with the 402s? (502s are too wide for my placement)

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Because the close range a WDST speaker like 402 would be better, otherwise the sound/speaker can be localizable (too direct).
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post #58093 of 58343 Old 07-27-2019, 09:53 PM
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So I'm looking at a few different brands in my search for a 3.1 setup. I've never owned Klipsch speakers before but I'm wondering if the R-15M bookshelf and the R-25C centre would be a good set for a 3.1 setup. This will be in a bedroom that is 12'x13'x8' in size.

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post #58094 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 06:13 AM
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Who's got the RP600m's and how do you like them. I am considering them against some B&W 606s that I loved because the Klipsch are quite a bit cheaper and the sound was close. But they were tested on two different days so wasn't a side by side.

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post #58095 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 02:31 PM
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Who's got the RP600m's and how do you like them. I am considering them against some B&W 606s that I loved because the Klipsch are quite a bit cheaper and the sound was close. But they were tested on two different days so wasn't a side by side.
Buy from Crutchfield, $10 returns if you don't like them.

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post #58096 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 02:45 PM
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Buy from Crutchfield, $10 returns if you don't like them.
Yeah thats my plan for sure. Love the 60 day period too, plenty of time to really see if they are for me. Just need to keep my two year old away!
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post #58097 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
Ugh, the RP4000's came today. Did a listening to test for an hour with various types of music. They sound incredible, don't get me wrong, but without a subwoofer the low end seems lacking. These are my only real pair of speakers so it's hard to compare but just from watching youtube videos of sound tests from the rp5000f's with headphones, the bass response seems much greater than my 4000's.

May return them to amazon and get the 5000's. I feel bad since I first started out with the r625fa's and returned those after being disappointed. the 4000's are miles better but I think I may trade them in for the 5000's and forgo getting a sub. Am I dick for doing that? I wonder if they are able to just repackage and resell as refurbished. Still must be taking a loss.

And again don't get me wrong. The 4" woofers looks incredibly dinky but they really do pack a punch for their size. I think I'm still left wanting a little though.
Don't bother with the 5000s either. The 6000s are best bang for buck and have much more bass.

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post #58098 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
Ugh, the RP4000's came today. Did a listening to test for an hour with various types of music. They sound incredible, don't get me wrong, but without a subwoofer the low end seems lacking.....The 4" woofers looks incredibly dinky but they really do pack a punch for their size. I think I'm still left wanting a little though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HYPURR DBL NKL View Post
A good sub would still be recommended. Even the 5000's probably aren't going to dig very deep. I have the older RF-62II's, and while the bass is good on them, they are no match for my sub in the lower frequency range. 👍
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
IMO and experience, until you have at least 8”-10” drivers, a sub is necessary for music and an absolute must for movies. And no need to feel bad for returning product. Consumers have the right to get the product performance they expect and paid for. Retailers have both the means and margin for reselling/disposing of returned goods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Cmon man. I had RF7iis and that still couldn’t hang with a sub. Buy a sub.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
So now the question is get a sub or get the 5000's and a sub? Would I notice a difference assuming I have a sub if I upgraded to the 5000's or would that sub cancel out any benefit? For both movies and music.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Get a sub, no matter what speakers you end up with. Towers just can't do justice to blockbuster movies, and while the bigger Klipsch towers will handle most music just fine, a good sub will handle the bottom two octaves even better. I listen mostly to music, and my subs just add a little presence the towers don't have by themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatto View Post
First get a subwoofer. Maybe you wouldn't notice difference between 4000 & 5000. For music I don't use sub
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Don't bother with the 5000s either. The 6000s are best bang for buck and have much more bass.
As overwhelmingly noted, experienced enthusiasts all recommend the addition of a sub...regardless of tower driver size. Keep in mind that the larger the tower's drivers, the better the bass performance. However, as also stated, even towers with large drivers are no match/substitute for a true subwoofer to optimize both music and especially movie performance. There is a reason the majority of enthusiasts have subwoofers in their systems. Bottom line...let your budget determine the largest affordable tower + subwoofer.
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Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

Last edited by gene4ht; 07-28-2019 at 05:45 PM.
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post #58099 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazepharmacist View Post
So now the question is get a sub or get the 5000's and a sub? Would I notice a difference assuming I have a sub if I upgraded to the 5000's or would that sub cancel out any benefit? For both movies and music.

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You need to add a sub to your layout.....period!

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post #58100 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 09:06 PM
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8 got the 6000 and by the price 8m thinking i should've go for the 8000
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post #58101 of 58343 Old 07-28-2019, 10:13 PM
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Appreciate it if anyone could advise me with wall mounts that would fit the RP160M for back surrounds.

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post #58102 of 58343 Old 07-29-2019, 12:56 AM
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Appreciate it if anyone could advise me with wall mounts that would fit the RP160M for back surrounds.

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This and other similar mounts of this type can be found on Amazon...just ensure the mount is able to extend the RP 160M out from the wall so as not to block the rear port.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N2TM8BQ...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
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post #58103 of 58343 Old 07-29-2019, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
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even towers with large drivers are no match/substitute for a true subwoofer to optimize both music and especially movie performance. There is a reason the majority of enthusiasts have subwoofers in their systems. Bottom line...let your budget determine the largest affordable tower + subwoofer.

And 1 more thing to use subwoofer: to reproduce the deep frequencies requires high energy from the receiver, so you spare it that way. There is more power left over for the rest, for a more dynamic sound. And that is really needed.

The RP-280F has 2 x 8" and sound quite good, but not as good and as deep as a subwoofer.
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DOLBY ATMOS 5.2.4 - Yamaha RX-A2080 - Klipsch RP-280F - RP-450C - RP-250S - RP-140SA - R-112SW - LG OLED 55B7 - HiMedia Q30 - Xbox One X SE

Last edited by Renatto; 07-29-2019 at 02:13 AM.
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post #58104 of 58343 Old 07-29-2019, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post

This and other similar mounts of this type can be found on Amazon...just ensure the mount is able to extend the RP 160M out from the wall so as not to block the rear port.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N2TM8BQ...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
Rp160m are 12.86" deep..... most of the stands in amazon are less than 11".

Not sure how it will fit & how much it will be able to rotate for adjustment (left/right) without them over hanging alot from the base.





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post #58105 of 58343 Old 07-29-2019, 10:52 AM
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Building out a dedicated basement home theatre. It's a very small room... 11' wide and maybe 18' deep... Was originally looking @ 8000Fs for the fronts and the 504C as my center. I also have a nice SVS sub with 2 down firing 12s to handle the low end.

I was talking with a friend of mine who works for Klipsch and he suggested with the small room I might actually be ok with the RP-600M as my fronts because the 504C and the SVS sub would be doing so much of the work in a home theatre.

I demoed the 600Ms vs the 8000Fs and the difference was marginal... the 8000Fs seemed more present but I believe to properly A/B test this setup you'd probably have to adjust some other values on the receiver which we could not do in the AV demo room.

On music I was surprised how closely the 600Ms came to the 8000Fs and with a sub thrown in I could barely tell the difference.

What do you guys think about the 600Ms as L/R channels in a small home theater if supported by a very nice sub and center?
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post #58106 of 58343 Old 07-29-2019, 12:31 PM
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What do you guys think about the 600Ms as L/R channels in a small home theater if supported by a very nice sub and center?
I'm pretty sure the are really good. My room is not much bigger than Yours 13x23, but I picked the "big front", the 280F, the successor of the 8000, simply, because it's a beauty! I love to look at them!
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DOLBY ATMOS 5.2.4 - Yamaha RX-A2080 - Klipsch RP-280F - RP-450C - RP-250S - RP-140SA - R-112SW - LG OLED 55B7 - HiMedia Q30 - Xbox One X SE

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post #58107 of 58343 Old 07-29-2019, 12:38 PM
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Klipsch owner thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renatto View Post
I'm pretty sure the are really good. My room is not much bigger than Yours 13x23, but I picked the "big front", the 280F, the successor of the 8000, simply, because it's a beauty! I love to look at them!


Excellent fit on that center!


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Samsung 55MU6290 -- Denon X1400h -- Klipsch RP600m -- RP450C -- Micca M-6S 6.5 -- Dual Klipsch RW-10
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post #58108 of 58343 Old 07-29-2019, 12:51 PM
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Excellent fit on that center!
Made for order.

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post #58109 of 58343 Old 07-30-2019, 01:35 PM
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Hello,

I recently grabbed some R-620F towers and love them... but I need some help matching a center channel.

I got an R-52C to match my R-620f and it just sounds so thin and tinny. It matches well on the high end, and upper mids, but there is NOTHING on the lower spectrum.

I tried an RP-400C and that matched beautifully on the lows and mids, but the upper end loses its sharpness and clarity, and leaves a hole in the high end.

I got fed up and put in my R-51M bookshelf as a center. This sort of has the best of both, matches lows, mids, and highs... however, it can't keep up with my R-620f towers, and gets messier at higher volumes and doesn't hold up with the towers, and brings the system down a bit as a whole.

What the heck am I supposed to do to match a decent center with this system? It is supposed to be the R-52C but I don't understand how anyone can use that, it is so flat and tinny that you lose the entire low end, but it seems there are no other good options to match with? The RP sounds great, but I think the tweeter aren't timbre matching or something as it leaves a hole in the high end.

I just ordered an RC-62 II to try... do you think I will run into timbre issues with this?

What else do you recommend? At this point I am almost giving up and just running stereo with phantom center...

Thanks!

(I am also running a BiC PL-200 II sub if that matters...)
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post #58110 of 58343 Old 07-30-2019, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calidus View Post
Hello,

I recently grabbed some R-620F towers and love them... but I need some help matching a center channel.

I got an R-52C to match my R-620f and it just sounds so thin and tinny. It matches well on the high end, and upper mids, but there is NOTHING on the lower spectrum.

I tried an RP-400C and that matched beautifully on the lows and mids, but the upper end loses its sharpness and clarity, and leaves a hole in the high end.

I got fed up and put in my R-51M bookshelf as a center. This sort of has the best of both, matches lows, mids, and highs... however, it can't keep up with my R-620f towers, and gets messier at higher volumes and doesn't hold up with the towers, and brings the system down a bit as a whole.

What the heck am I supposed to do to match a decent center with this system? It is supposed to be the R-52C but I don't understand how anyone can use that, it is so flat and tinny that you lose the entire low end, but it seems there are no other good options to match with? The RP sounds great, but I think the tweeter aren't timbre matching or something as it leaves a hole in the high end.

I just ordered an RC-62 II to try... do you think I will run into timbre issues with this?

What else do you recommend? At this point I am almost giving up and just running stereo with phantom center...

Thanks!

(I am also running a BiC PL-200 II sub if that matters...)
Curious what source material this is with? Isn't the center mostly just dialogue? Or are you doing something like "all channel stereo" or multi channel audio?

Samsung 55MU6290 -- Denon X1400h -- Klipsch RP600m -- RP450C -- Micca M-6S 6.5 -- Dual Klipsch RW-10
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