Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 1081 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32401 of 47366 Old 10-07-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
Have your 30s yet??
Nope not yet, if I rely on Otto's answer given a couple of weeks ago it should be end of October or beginning of November.

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post #32402 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 06:17 AM
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Borderdog pm'd me,he briefly made it up to the Dyn room,yet spent most of his time talking with Mick,so did not get much of a listen to the c 20's,he did say that they are much better looking in person,than the pictures show,and he is going to try and make it back up there for a better listen today.Also,no offence Shample,but he did not think taking my Naim fraim shelves to an auto body shop was a good idea...his reasoning was that they paint steel,not wood.He did recommend Deft spray cans,i may try some of that on a dummy piece of wood,if i don't like the results,i will stick with the cherry finish.
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post #32403 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 06:21 AM
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I say just leave the cherry finish

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post #32404 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
Borderdog pm'd me,he briefly made it up to the Dyn room,yet spent most of his time talking with Mick,so did not get much of a listen to the c 20's,he did say that they are much better looking in person,than the pictures show,and he is going to try and make it back up there for a better listen today.Also,no offence Shample,but he did not think taking my Naim fraim shelves to an auto body shop was a good idea...his reasoning was that they paint steel,not wood.He did recommend Deft spray cans,i may try some of that on a dummy piece of wood,if i don't like the results,i will stick with the cherry finish.
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That may be true regarding painting wood instead of metal but some manufacturers do use automotive paint on speakers. I know Raidho does for sure. I'll ask Rhett who has Naim Fraim light's in black if they look like an automotive paint or a black stain. I never paid too much attention to his fraim for the couple times I was there. That said if an auto body were to paint they or you should strip off the finish.

Rhett just sent me a message and his are black ash not high gloss.

As a side note Rhett sent a message yesterday regarding C20's at the RMAF and he said they played very loud with some deep bass. I'll ask Tyler when I see him tomorrow and ask his impressions since he was there too.
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post #32405 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 07:49 AM
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Tony just thought of something else. If you do decide to paint them think about the wood grain. To get a piano finish the wood grain would have to be filled or sanded smooth in IMO. Otherwise it may look a little funky
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post #32406 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OctaDyn_Dude View Post
Tony just thought of something else. If you do decide to paint them think about the wood grain. To get a piano finish the wood grain would have to be filled or sanded smooth in IMO. Otherwise it may look a little funky
No George,I do not want a gloss finish,it has to be flat black like they would be if I had ordered them from Naim.I want the wood grain to still be visible,just black color instead of cherry,I will post some pics of the cherry when I get them next weekend,see what you guys think.I will definitely get a similar piece of dummy wood to test this on first,I don't want to do it,if it looks homemade/ghetto,lol.

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post #32407 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
I say just leave the cherry finish
Agreed with you Steve, I would not be comfortable refinishing the shelves on such expensive Naim Fraim, Maybe I just don't have confidence in my own skills.

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post #32408 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 10:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
Also,no offence Shample,but he did not think taking my Naim fraim shelves to an auto body shop was a good idea...his reasoning was that they paint steel,not wood.He did recommend Deft spray cans,i may try some of that on a dummy piece of wood,if i don't like the results,i will stick with the cherry finish.
No offense taken.

No offense to Borderdog though, but the guy stains wood for a living. He isn't a professional painter. Body shops paint more than steel. They paint wood, various plastics, fiberglass, steel, aluminum, and bondo. Wood is not an issue. Heck, as I stated previously, I sprayed my own polished granite speaker platforms satin black in my garage and they look wonderful. No runs, and an even perfect finish. How do you think speakers get a colored and/or gloss finish? They get sprayed.

It's not rocket science. Painting a few pieces of wood should be a cake walk for a professional painter, and with a little practice, even easy for you.
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post #32409 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by shample View Post
No offense taken.

No offense to Borderdog though, but the guy stains wood for a living. He isn't a professional painter. Body shops paint more than steel. They paint wood, various plastics, fiberglass, steel, aluminum, and bondo. Wood is not an issue. Heck, as I stated previously, I sprayed my own polished granite speaker platforms satin black in my garage and they look wonderful. No runs, and an even perfect finish. How do you think speakers get a colored and/or gloss finish? They get sprayed.

It's not rocket science. Painting a few pieces of wood should be a cake walk for a professional painter, and with a little practice, even easy for you.

In the really high even at Totem it's more complex than that, there is a 12 steps process including wet sanding between each coat, I mean there is like 3 coats of paint and 3 coats of high gloss polyester finish on top of that.

Now to paint in satin or flat black is not as tedious task, I guess just sanding between the coats is sufficient, just got to be careful not to put to much paint per coat and let it dry nicely between coats before sanding or else orange peel appearance may appear when looking under direct light.

For me I let the pros do it and i agree a paint shop could do it more than likely.

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post #32410 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 11:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BigAl87 View Post
In the really high even at Totem it's more complex than that, there is a 12 steps process including wet sanding between each coat, I mean there is like 3 coats of paint and 3 coats of high gloss polyester finish on top of that.

Now to paint in satin or flat black is not as tedious task, I guess just sanding between the coats is sufficient, just got to be careful not to put to much paint per coat and let it dry nicely between coats before sanding or else orange peel appearance may appear when looking under direct light.

For me I let the pros do it and i agree a paint shop could do it more than likely.
I think you are missing the point. The finishing process is a different topic, and varies depending on the desired result. The point is they all get sprayed, no matter the material.

Good auto body shops also wet sand in the finishing stages, and then buff back to a mirror look. Something not needed in this case.

Nonetheless, this is getting way off topic now. He wants a simple flat or satin finish. You can do it yourself easily with practice, or take it to a painter. The fact that it's wood doesn't matter in the least.
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post #32411 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by shample View Post
I think you are missing the point. The finishing process is a different topic, and varies depending on the desired result. The point is they all get sprayed, no matter the material.

Good auto body shops also wet sand in the finishing stages, and then buff back to a mirror look. Something not needed in this case.

Nonetheless, this is getting way off topic now. He wants a simple flat or satin finish. You can do it yourself easily with practice, or take it to a painter. The fact that it's wood doesn't matter in the least.
Ok man I said i agreed with you, i was just pointing out that sometimes there may be various steps to get to the end result, that's all.

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post #32412 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 12:28 PM
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...as I stated previously, I sprayed my own polished granite speaker platforms satin black...
That came out nicely. I can't tell from the picture, but did you bolt your speakers to the granite or are they just sitting on top?
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post #32413 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 01:03 PM
 
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That came out nicely. I can't tell from the picture, but did you bolt your speakers to the granite or are they just sitting on top?
Thank you, sir. I actually think my 260's look better on the platforms than without.

I did not bolt them. I tried a few things before I settled on the way you see them. First, I tried spikes. I didn't feel safe with them. I felt like they could be pushed and could slide off, and also didn't like the look. I'm not totally sold on spikes in general anyway. They definitely make a speaker on carpet more sturdy, but they also couple the speaker to the floor which vibrates.

I then tried rubber feet. Meh...didn't really like them either.

I settled on placing a few layers of ensolite foam underneath the outer edges of the speaker; so they are sitting on 2 layers of ensolite. They sit above the granite maybe 1/8", so they are decoupled.
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post #32414 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 03:12 PM
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shample: I see the H360 looming in the background in that picture! Like I stated before, I been extremely impressed with the H100, that I might Demo the H360 and see if it doesn't do more justice than my MF KW-500 and just get back to one system. So far the H100 seems to have zero issues running my C2's or my Magnepan 1.7i.. So I can imagine the H360 is just more of a great thing!

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post #32415 of 47366 Old 10-09-2016, 08:41 PM
 
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shample: I see the H360 looming in the background in that picture! Like I stated before, I been extremely impressed with the H100, that I might Demo the H360 and see if it doesn't do more justice than my MF KW-500 and just get back to one system. So far the H100 seems to have zero issues running my C2's or my Magnepan 1.7i.. So I can imagine the H360 is just more of a great thing!
Sure is blurred out in the background!

I don't have any experience with Musical Fidelity, but I've owned a lot of other amplifiers in the past 20 years. I've never been so happy top to bottom with an amplifier, like I am with the H360. I would urge you to get an in home demo to compare if possible. I know it's hard to give up an amplifier you love (which I assume are your feelings about the MF) because finding the perfect combination can be a daunting task, but if anything deserves a shot to dethrone it; the H360 should be in the running.
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post #32416 of 47366 Old 10-10-2016, 05:58 AM
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shample: The H360 does deserve a shot, now I just need to convince my dealer to let me use it for a week... I have no doubt the H360 could be just as good if not better, but money comes into play and the Hegel H360 is running around the $5700 mark these days and I haven't seen any used yet pop up.... After owning several H70/H80 and then jumping higher in Hegel food chain, the match with Dynaudio is very good indeed.

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post #32417 of 47366 Old 10-10-2016, 06:21 AM
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Speaking of Hegel: It's a little annoying to read on occasion that Hegel "is this week's fad as best brand amp for Dynaudio" etc.!
Sure, positive comments and reviews can raise your awareness and curiosity about a certain brand, but really, it's not like we're 12 year old kids trying to blend in by picking an "accepted" brand!

Personally I can say that before I began auditing stuff, I was expecting to end up with a Parasound, Musical Fidelity or Naim amp.
That was because of online reviews + how highly people spoke of these brands to match with Dynaudio.
Yet I ended up with a Hegel H160 because that was the amp I liked the most.
So shoot me!

Ok, rant over!
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post #32418 of 47366 Old 10-10-2016, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by hbjdk View Post
Speaking of Hegel: It's a little annoying to read on occasion that Hegel "is this week's fad as best brand amp for Dynaudio" etc.!
Sure, positive comments and reviews can raise your awareness and curiosity about a certain brand, but really, it's not like we're 12 year old kids trying to blend in by picking an "accepted" brand!

Personally I can say that before I began auditing stuff, I was expecting to end up with a Parasound, Musical Fidelity or Naim amp.
That was because of online reviews + how highly people spoke of these brands to match with Dynaudio.
Yet I ended up with a Hegel H160 because that was the amp I liked the most.
So shoot me!

Ok, rant over!

Biggest dealer of Dynaudio here sells both Hegel and Naim as well as Cary which is also a good match with Dyns. Dynaudio said it they want their speaker to work with many amplifiers, I am sure they would pair well with Accuphase and several other brands. Sugden is great with them if anyone wishes to use dual monos winter amplifiers that will run you in the 5 figures

Saw this guy with dual Sugden Monos, Those most heat up that room like there's no tomorrow.

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shample: The H360 does deserve a shot, now I just need to convince my dealer to let me use it for a week... I have no doubt the H360 could be just as good if not better, but money comes into play and the Hegel H360 is running around the $5700 mark these days and I haven't seen any used yet pop up.... After owning several H70/H80 and then jumping higher in Hegel food chain, the match with Dynaudio is very good indeed.
As I always say, call around and you'll find a better deal.

Here is a link to a used one.

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649299153-hegel-h360-integrated-amplifier/
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post #32420 of 47366 Old 10-10-2016, 11:16 AM
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Now that the Xeo-2 has been out for a while, is anyone here using these for wireless surround speakers and if so, with what level of success. Have there been any problems in setting these up and if so, what have you done to solve these problems.

I had visited a NYC Dynaudio dealer about using these in a wirless surround application and they recomended AGAINST using these as they said that they tried and cold not make them work correctly. One of the problems they described was constantly varying latency preventing them from setting up the the speaker delay (distance) correctly. They also described external inteference. Has anyone experienced anything like what they described?

A description of your actual experience using Xeo-2's in surround applications would be appreciated.
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post #32421 of 47366 Old 10-10-2016, 10:27 PM
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I had visited a NYC Dynaudio dealer about using these in a wirless surround application and they recomended AGAINST using these as they said that they tried and cold not make them work correctly. One of the problems they described was constantly varying latency preventing them from setting up the the speaker delay (distance) correctly. They also described external inteference. Has anyone experienced anything like what they described?
I know you're not asking me, but: "constantly varying latency" is not possible, the latency is fixed. I'm sure they experienced something that lead them to this conclusion, but the latency of the wireless transfer does not vary. We generally label the latency as "about 20 ms", because each model and input type deviates a small bit (for reasons not related to the wireless transfer), but for practical purposes stating 20 ms is accurate enough as a general statement.

No wireless system is free from risk of interference. Based on the feedback we get, it doesn't happen often that it interferes with the sound, but when it does, it is often at a dealer, who usually have a lot more other wireless stuff nearby than even advanced customers.

In the near future we will be adding a few features to improve the stand-by behaviour, in part due to feedback from use as surround speakers. We still have a few kinks to work out, so I can't say exactly when this firmware update will be available.

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post #32422 of 47366 Old 10-11-2016, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by shample View Post
No offense taken.

No offense to Borderdog though, but the guy stains wood for a living. He isn't a professional painter. Body shops paint more than steel. They paint wood, various plastics, fiberglass, steel, aluminum, and bondo. Wood is not an issue. Heck, as I stated previously, I sprayed my own polished granite speaker platforms satin black in my garage and they look wonderful. No runs, and an even perfect finish. How do you think speakers get a colored and/or gloss finish? They get sprayed.

It's not rocket science. Painting a few pieces of wood should be a cake walk for a professional painter, and with a little practice, even easy for you.
Shample,i am just the middle man here,but Borderdog was a little offended by your remarks,here is his PM to me.

Stains wood for a living? If I saw him in person, I'd probably punch him.
"What is a professional painter? Is it only in the auto body field? Are not the people in the cabinet or furniture industries professional painters?
I've only been a "professional painter" of wood for over 40 years. I have a room specifically designed for spraying finishes and I'm a wood guy, as does everybody in the wood working industry. . If I want my vehicle finished, I go to an auto body shop, if the auto body guy wants a wood piece finished, he comes t o me.
"Shample calling me someone who "stains wood for a living. He isn't a professional painter". My god, the ignorance. Staining a wood, and color matching is an art unto itself, but the staining/tinting is only the beginning. It does not end there. After the coloring of the wood comes the finishes...whether it be a lacquer, varnish, or a polyutherane. Everything has to be compatible.

When no quarter asked my advice on finishing his naim stand, he was asking about finish over the existing finish. Now, auto finishes will work on raw wood, but if your are trying to do a different finish on top of an existing wood finish, you can run into compatibility issues.

But, why would you want an automotive finish on your wood? The speaker companies who say they use automotive finishes on their speakers is just marketing. In the long term, the standard wood finish on wood will look and hold up better than automotive finish on wood.

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Not sure if this was shared or not. Focus 200 XD review.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/d...GlXQDBYQYdp.97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbjdk View Post
Speaking of Hegel: It's a little annoying to read on occasion that Hegel "is this week's fad as best brand amp for Dynaudio" etc.!
Sure, positive comments and reviews can raise your awareness and curiosity about a certain brand, but really, it's not like we're 12 year old kids trying to blend in by picking an "accepted" brand!

Personally I can say that before I began auditing stuff, I was expecting to end up with a Parasound, Musical Fidelity or Naim amp.
That was because of online reviews + how highly people spoke of these brands to match with Dynaudio.
Yet I ended up with a Hegel H160 because that was the amp I liked the most.
So shoot me!

Ok, rant over!
I wouldn't call this a rant! More like a good positive outcome! When comparing Musical Fidelity 6/3 series stuff to the Hegel their is no comparison, as the Hegel is much better IMHO. Now when you get up in Musical Fidelity KW(older series) and M8 and Nu-Vista series that's where Musical Fidelity really shines.. Hegel is doing similar marketing stuff as MF and it's starting to get annoying as they keep on coming out with newer Model numbers every year or every other year. The Hegel H360 easily competes with the higher end 6 series stuff and possibly even the 8 series. The problem I am having with Hegel and wanting to change is I have the H100 and their isn't much different sonically between this unit and the H160 or H200 for that matter as I have compared these, better internal dac with the H160 for sure. Since I am using the HD12 Hegel Dac that I love, it makes me take a look at the H300 or H360 but that puts me in a whole different ball game as far as money goes! The H100 for the money runs my Maggies and C2's with zero issues and sonically sounds wonderful, if I want more clean juice to them, I start up the KW-500.. Now I might throw in the H360 for comparisons testing sooner than later... or just wait for the next higher up model to come out and then buy a H360. Regardless a great match with Dynaudio and highly recommended on my end!
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Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinums (Mocca), Dynaudio Contour 20's (Grey Oak) KEF LS50 (Black), Magnepan 1.7i, Belles VT-01/MB-200s, NAD M10, Hegel, Musical Fidelity and various other good brands.. HT system: Dynaudio SCX Center, Dynaudio In-Walls for Surrounds and Sony VPL-295ES possibly a new Monitor in the future.
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Last edited by Garman; 10-11-2016 at 08:45 AM.
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post #32425 of 47366 Old 10-11-2016, 07:48 AM
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I know you're not asking me, but: "constantly varying latency" is not possible, the latency is fixed. I'm sure they experienced something that lead them to this conclusion, but the latency of the wireless transfer does not vary. We generally label the latency as "about 20 ms", because each model and input type deviates a small bit (for reasons not related to the wireless transfer), but for practical purposes stating 20 ms is accurate enough as a general statement.

No wireless system is free from risk of interference. Based on the feedback we get, it doesn't happen often that it interferes with the sound, but when it does, it is often at a dealer, who usually have a lot more other wireless stuff nearby than even advanced customers.

In the near future we will be adding a few features to improve the stand-by behaviour, in part due to feedback from use as surround speakers. We still have a few kinks to work out, so I can't say exactly when this firmware update will be available.
Thanks Otto for this reply. This adds a level of confidence that these will work successfully in my surround sound application. Will the release of this firmware be announced or will it just appear?
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post #32426 of 47366 Old 10-11-2016, 08:47 AM
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Thanks Otto for this reply. This adds a level of confidence that these will work successfully in my surround sound application. Will the release of this firmware be announced or will it just appear?
I considered xeo's for surround,but decided against it because I was worried about setting everything up right,like the speaker distance and mainly the volume control.Since the Xeo has to work with the hub or connect I believe,I did not want to question whether I had the right volume in surrounds,given they have their own remote.The xd's work fine in home theater because they are hard wired in,and have a switch on the back that you set to external,then your avr/processor controls everything...but xd's are overkill for surrounds IME.

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@no quarter ....

Really? So this guy wants to argue with me through someone else's PM's?

First, he told you that an auto body shop can't paint wood, and now he states they can, but only if they prep it properly. I highly doubt any reputable shop wasn't going to prep the surface. That is the longest and most important process to any paint job. These guys are painting large varying horizontal and vertical surfaces daily, which is much harder that spraying a flat piece of wood. The guy is back peddling his first answer to you, which should tell you all you need to know.

"If I want my vehicle finished, I go to an auto body shop, if the auto body guy wants a wood piece finished, he comes to me." - Borderdog

I highly doubt an auto body professional is going to look for a furniture maker when he needs a piece of wood painted, when he has equal if not better equipment at his fingertips; and more experience at painting.

I'm done with this conversation. You asked what the best way to paint your stand was, and I answered; spraying. I was just trying to help. I have no interest in arguing with some guy over PM's that clearly thinks wood is some magical substance that only a certain few can paint. It's hilarious. I would urge you to go to your own local reputable auto body shop and tell them you have some wood piece's you need painted, but an audio rack maker told you they were incapable of doing so. You would most likely be laughed at.

If you can't handle painting it yourself, and don't want to trust in a reputable auto body shop, I would say don't buy the stand unless you find the color you want. That would solve your problem. I'm not sure how much you are saving on your rack, but having someone else paint it will eat up some of your savings anyway. Your only other option is finding a magical "wood painter" who I would bet doesn't paint a quarter as much as an auto body shop on a weekly basis.
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post #32428 of 47366 Old 10-11-2016, 10:13 AM
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Really? So this guy wants to argue with me through someone else's PM's?
He can't post in this thread, hence the PMs.
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post #32429 of 47366 Old 10-11-2016, 10:18 AM
 
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The problem I am having with Hegel and wanting to change is I have the H100 and their isn't much different sonically between this unit and the H160 or H200 for that matter as I have compared these, better internal dac with the H160 for sure.
The DAC in the H360 is also better than the DAC in the H160, so the H360 would be like taking two steps up in the DAC range over the H100. The H360 is a different animal all together; in every regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Since I am using the HD12 Hegel Dac that I love, it makes me take a look at the H300 or H360 but that puts me in a whole different ball game as far as money goes! The H100 for the money runs my Maggies and C2's with zero issues and sonically sounds wonderful, if I want more clean juice to them, I start up the KW-500.. Now I might throw in the H360 for comparisons testing sooner than later... or just wait for the next higher up model to come out and then buy a H360. Regardless a great match with Dynaudio and highly recommended on my end!
Just for arguments sake .....but why do you need two different amps in the same system? One for the sound and then one for the power? I'm sure if you really liked the H360, then everything else could get sold; the Z1ES, the Hegel DAC, the H100, the Musical Fidelity. I would assume you would end up with money in our pocket and a better amp. But then you would have to justify why you just bought that expensive new rack when all you really needed was a small platform for the small monster that is the H360.
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post #32430 of 47366 Old 10-11-2016, 10:55 AM
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Thanks Otto for this reply. This adds a level of confidence that these will work successfully in my surround sound application. Will the release of this firmware be announced or will it just appear?
There will be some sort of announcement, but it's considered a minor release, so we're probably not going to shout it from the rooftops.

Sorry, but I'm not going deeper into detail before release, I hope you understand.

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