Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 1343 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40261 of 43578 Old 07-23-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
Drew,

If both sides were filled equally, you would probably have heard a difference; this is stereo after all and the speakers work in tandem.

A Fun Side Note:
Only George has the ears to tell the difference when one speaker is set up differently than the other one; whether it be the fill for the stands or cables.

My idea is to completely empty one of my stands, put cheap cables supplying that side: all the way through the chain from interconnects to the speakers cable. In other words, one speaker will be bereft of fill, expensive cables, etc., etc.
The other speaker will have the stand filled, that channel will have high-end interconnects from source to pre to speaker. Of course, both channels have to be playing. Both channels would be sound-level (dB) matched. No switching back and forth between channels.
I would invite George to do the listening test. So the test is if both channels are playing, can George hear the difference between channels.

If George can tell the difference 8 out of 10 times, I am going to apply for a special grant. Then we will secretly abscond George in the middle of the night and take him to a secret laboratory where we can study him. If a 60+ year old man has that kind of incredible discretionary hearing, I'm sure the DOD and other government agencies will want to know why and how.
Ha - never tried just filling one stand but I'll take you up on the cables. But it has to be with Dyn's or better speakers
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post #40262 of 43578 Old 07-23-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
lol...


Well I do plan to fill the other side and try again. Serious question though, the Contours are bolted to the stand, so how does filling the stands actually help? The stand is definitely much less hollow sounding rapping a knuckle on it.
Well don't rap you knuckles on it . I had the Stand4's and I filled the back legs 3/4 full and the front about 1/4-1/3 full to get a better center balance since the front of the C1's is where the most weight was. Can't remember why but I didn't like them fully filled. The Stand4 also came with long skinny baggies for the rear posts because of the cable management hole at the bottom. Don't know much about the Stand6. But I do remember Mick stating the Stand6 removed much of the stands ringing compared to the 4's.
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post #40263 of 43578 Old 07-23-2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Question about soundproofing... I am sure I will be calling a couple of people I know, but we got the go ahead to do the basement, and looking for some good ideas for soundproofing and making the "Media" room sounding decent. I heard Denim installation works great and using steal beams horizontally across and not driving the screws into the stud but the beam works wonders. Open to any suggestion as I want to get the best sound out my Dynaudio's!
I used the Denim in the basement ceiling, fiberglass in the walls, Homasote 440 SoundBarrier 1/2" x 4' x 8' Panel in walls, then 5/8 drywall, Green glue and all screwed. To keep the basement dry and warm get off the concrete, Delta floor is the best thing I ever did.
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post #40264 of 43578 Old 07-23-2018, 07:13 PM
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Ha - never tried just filling one stand but I'll take you up on the cables. But it has to be with Dyn's or better speakers
George,

I'll take you up on that, but it has to be in my room with my system. (Actually, a pretty incredible system and yes it has Dyns). Any cables you want included you could ship to me beforehand.

First of all, I have a dedicated room designed from the bottom up for acoustics. My room doesn't lie. It tells me immediately; I don't have to go through hours of A/B to discern how a speaker or a piece of equipment sounds. (I always give equipment and appropriate break-in time to warm up before I make decisions).

First of all, you would have to pay your own way to Richmond,VA. I would pick you up at the airport and transport you to where i live...about an hour away. Beautiful drive by the way. I live by the beautiful Chesapeake Bay. The food is incredible and we have good beer.

We need some witnesses. I choose Garnett(Garmin) and GT Audiopihle. GT lives not that far away.
Other people may be welcome.

Now, this is a challenge to you. The room is a non-issue! The equipment I have should be a non-issue. The cost of my system should be a non-issue.

SO LET'S TEST YOUR DISCERNING HEARING!!

Aaron, (Borderdog)

PS, if you pass the simple A/B test I will reimburse you for all your expenses.
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post #40265 of 43578 Old 07-23-2018, 08:23 PM
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I say go for it George,put your Ansuz DTC cables up against a set of monster cables...should be easy money.

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post #40266 of 43578 Old 07-23-2018, 09:25 PM
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I say go for it George,put your Ansuz DTC cables up against a set of monster cables...should be easy money.
lol.... I don't even think Lars would do that test, hell most high end cable guys would run the other way. Frankly I have yet to see any high end manufacture do a comparative test, go figure.

https://gizmodo.com/305549/james-ran...les-are-better <<<<<<< This is outdated put I found appropriate for the comment above.
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post #40267 of 43578 Old 07-24-2018, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
George,

I'll take you up on that, but it has to be in my room with my system. (Actually, a pretty incredible system and yes it has Dyns). Any cables you want included you could ship to me beforehand.

First of all, I have a dedicated room designed from the bottom up for acoustics. My room doesn't lie. It tells me immediately; I don't have to go through hours of A/B to discern how a speaker or a piece of equipment sounds. (I always give equipment and appropriate break-in time to warm up before I make decisions).

First of all, you would have to pay your own way to Richmond,VA. I would pick you up at the airport and transport you to where i live...about an hour away. Beautiful drive by the way. I live by the beautiful Chesapeake Bay. The food is incredible and we have good beer.

We need some witnesses. I choose Garnett(Garmin) and GT Audiopihle. GT lives not that far away.
Other people may be welcome.

Now, this is a challenge to you. The room is a non-issue! The equipment I have should be a non-issue. The cost of my system should be a non-issue.

SO LET'S TEST YOUR DISCERNING HEARING!!

Aaron, (Borderdog)

PS, if you pass the simple A/B test I will reimburse you for all your expenses.
There is no such animal...as a simple, A/B test

I just bought a pair of M10s; mostly so I could start posting sh*t here again...lol. Mods...I am clearly kidding (about posting sh*t; not the M10s )
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post #40268 of 43578 Old 07-24-2018, 07:37 AM
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There is no such animal...as a simple, A/B test

I just bought a pair of M10s; mostly so I could start posting sh*t here again...lol. Mods...I am clearly kidding (about posting sh*t; not the M10s )
Congrats on the new speakers CD...welcome back!

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post #40269 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 10:05 AM
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I have a question for Otto,if you still pop in here? Chord just announced the release of a new M scaler,which upsampes a digital signal from 44.1 KHZ to 768 KHZ...would it benefit the XD 600s to use this product before the signal enters the XDs? I plan on trying one in my Naim combo with pre/amp passive speakers,but I am also curious what would it do with the XDs,since it also has digital outs,but the XDs are limited to 192Khz.

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/hugo-mscaler/

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2 channel-Naim Core/NDS/XPSDR/Cary Cinema 12/Anthem MCA 50,power lines,Focal Sopra 1,Teac pd-501 DSD player,Nordost QB-8.Superlumina cables,DC 1. Full Naim Fraim.NDS/XD 600.
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post #40270 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 11:42 AM
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Well don't rap you knuckles on it . I had the Stand4's and I filled the back legs 3/4 full and the front about 1/4-1/3 full to get a better center balance since the front of the C1's is where the most weight was. Can't remember why but I didn't like them fully filled. The Stand4 also came with long skinny baggies for the rear posts because of the cable management hole at the bottom. Don't know much about the Stand6. But I do remember Mick stating the Stand6 removed much of the stands ringing compared to the 4's.
I have now both sides filled equally. During some listening last night, I thought there might have been a bit more focus to the sound, especially voices. But can't say for certain and it's not exactly easy to do quick A/B with stand filler...lol.

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post #40271 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 11:58 AM
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Anyone looking for a mint pair of Contour SR in Rosewood let me know. New room is being built in a month and I will be going for InWalls for rears etc..

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinums (Mocca), Dynaudio Contour 20's (Grey Oak) KEF LS50 (Black), Magnepan 1.7i, Belles VT-01/MB-200s, NAD M10, Hegel, Musical Fidelity and various other good brands.. HT system: Dynaudio SCX Center, Dynaudio In-Walls for Surrounds and Sony VPL-295ES possibly a new Monitor in the future.
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post #40272 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 02:15 PM
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Ha; want a start and stop fast "torture test"? James Blake's Limit To Your Love

I think that's a better test for low bass extension and distortion. The bass notes in that track seem to be long, low frequency warble tones. Plenty stressing, but in a different way.

What I meant was bass notes with fast attack and decay, e.g. a synthesized bass drum hit with a sharp leading edge and an abrupt stop, a real drum hit in a dry acoustic with stuffing in the drum to damp the reverb, or a fast tapped or slapped bass guitar with dampened strings.

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post #40273 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
I have now both sides filled equally. During some listening last night, I thought there might have been a bit more focus to the sound, especially voices. But can't say for certain and it's not exactly easy to do quick A/B with stand filler...lol.
Drew,

I think the fill you used doesn't have enough mass. What most people don't understand is the Doppler Effect.
As speakers move fore and aft, it affects the frequencies. (Look up Doppler Effect). The more mass a stand has, the less tendency for fore and aft movement.
I have the Stand 4 which is double columned. I experimented with a number of different fills:
All sand- no
All lead- no
50/50 mix of sand and lead- YES!

Someone posted that you only need to fill the front column...wrong. That empty column behind can cause unwanted resonances.

More to come.

Borderdog
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post #40274 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Question about soundproofing... I am sure I will be calling a couple of people I know, but we got the go ahead to do the basement, and looking for some good ideas for soundproofing and making the "Media" room sounding decent. I heard Denim installation works great and using steal beams horizontally across and not driving the screws into the stud but the beam works wonders. Open to any suggestion as I want to get the best sound out my Dynaudio's!

What are your soundproofing objectives? Are you trying to keep noise out of the media room, or sound from the media room out of the rest of the house? If the former, what/where are the major sources of noise? In my case, my downstairs room had an opening to the stairwell and I had to seal that up with some framing and a DIY acoustic door to keep noise from the furnace & utility room out. I also have a sliding glass door to the outside that I considered treating or replacing but it's facing the woods and there's not enough noise coming in to worry about. Finally, the main water line into the house passes over my listening room and I haven't been able to effectively mitigate the cavitation noise from it when somebody is running water. The problem is that it's rigidly mounted to the joists above the room and I'd have to re-do the run of plumbing to vibration-isolate it. I tried absorbers on the ceiling but they didn't help.


If you're trying to keep sound from the media room out of the rest of the house, then I suggest concentrating on the ceiling. You could fill the space between the joists with rock wool insulation, and then double-drywall the ceiling with an acoustic drywall mounting system that isolates the two layers.


You also mentioned wanting to get the best sound, but that's more a function of room treatments and shape than soundproofing. Do you have control over room dimensions at this point in construction? If so, then you're lucky. You can use an online room mode calculator to help select room dimensions that give you a more even distribution of room modes. You can also estimate where the nulls are going to be based on where you think you'll put the speakers and listening position. Room treatment can't make up for bad geometry or bad placement.


Room treatments can either be purchased as finished pieces and attached to the walls and ceiling, or they can be built into the walls and ceiling, or they can be built over existing walls and ceiling. I went for a combination of the second and third. Here's a few guidelines on room treatment based on my experience with it:
- You can never have too much bass trapping. Corners are the best place for it, or anywhere where two or more surfaces meet. Tube traps are easy to stand in corners, but don't forget the wall/ceiling junction. Put in soffit traps if you can.
- For broadband bass trapping, use thick absorbers with free air space behind them for best efficiency and facing on the absorbing material to minimize high frequency absorption.
- For narrowband bass trapping, use membrane traps. But bass trapping for room modes below 50 Hz is generally futile. The lowest mode I was able to treat effectively was the first axial floor-ceiling mode (0,0,1) at 70 Hz - I used two 2x4 foot tuned traps on the ceiling.
- Use absorbers to treat reflections if the reflecting surface is close to the speakers or listening position. Use diffusors if the reflecting surface is further away.
- The most important first reflection in my room was the ceiling. Treating the ceiling yielded a much bigger improvement in imaging than treating the side wall reflections.
- If it's a rectangular room, it will have slap echo. You can use either diffusors or absorbers to take out slap echo, but be mindful of the next point.
- Make sure the total amount of absorption in the room is balanced wrt frequency. A common mistake, especially in custom home theaters, is to have too much high frequency absorption and not enough low frequency absorption. The result is a dead sounding room that tilts the perceived frequency balance. The best way to avoid this is to add absorption incrementally and measure RT60 vs. frequency while you are in the process of adding treatment. If you can't measure, you can try to do it by ear.


Here's a few DIY tips/tweaks;


- Spacing absorbers off the wall so there is an air gap behind them improves their efficiency at the lower end of their absorption band. A 2" thick absorber spaced 2" from the wall is nearly as effective as a 4" thick absorber placed on the wall.
- You can turn a high frequency absorber into a mid frequency absorber by covering the face of the absorbing material with a membrane. If you have a pre-finished absorber panel, you can remove the fabric cover, attach a plastic sheet with spray adhesive, and re-cover it. If you're making your own, just buy rigid fiberglass panels with foil facing.
- You can further reduce the high frequency absorption by covering the face with a sheet of cardboard. You'll lose absorption in the midrange too, but the low frequency absorption is largely unaffected.
- You can achieve a mix of absorption and diffusion by starting with a faced or covered panel and cutting holes or slots in it. Best to use a somewhat random pattern otherwise it's more of a diffraction grating than a diffusor.
- You can hide a lot of the ugliness of room treatment by framing around it and stretching acoustic fabric over the frame. Here's an old picture of my room showing that:


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post #40275 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 03:44 PM
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Stand Fill

My stands (Stand4s) are filled with a 50/50 mix (by volume) of dried course sand and #4 lead shot; ...heaven forbid. (everything is in elongated plastic baggies supplied by Dynaudio).

Lead is the most misunderstood metal. People think that even being in the proxity of lead is dangerous.

A few facts about lead:
The most misunderstood metal.
It is the most recycled metal; estimates as high as 97%.
Lead is very soft and very dense. In fact, it's one of the most dense of metals.
You do not get lead poisoning from touching lead. (It does not transmit through the skin).
It does not have dust from normal handling. It is so soft that abrasion with other materials or metals does not produce dust. (So normal handling is not dangerous to your health).
All of you when you are in your vehicles are sitting just a few feet from 20-30 lbs. of lead (batteries). If you drive an EV, you sitting on a battery that is a whole lot more dangerous than lead.
Lead is only dangerous when it is combusted (which we took care of back in 1971).
We had lead in paints prior to 1977. That was legislated and eliminated.

According to the CDC (Center of Disease Control), lead poisonings have been minimal since the mid 1970's.
Attribuable deaths were all linked to moonshiners in the deep South where they still used lead-based radiators to distill their product. We're only talking about a very few ignorant people.

I have lead in my stands, and it made a significant difference.

PS.
I have a 38" sailboat with a 7000# lead keel.
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post #40276 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Borderdog View Post
Drew,

I think the fill you used doesn't have enough mass. What most people don't understand is the Doppler Effect.
As speakers move fore and aft, it affects the frequencies. (Look up Doppler Effect). The more mass a stand has, the less tendency for fore and aft movement.
I have the Stand 4 which is double columned. I experimented with a number of different fills:
All sand- no
All lead- no
50/50 mix of sand and lead- YES!

Someone posted that you only need to fill the front column...wrong. That empty column behind can cause unwanted resonances.

More to come.

Borderdog
Well it added about 12.5 pounds to each stand, so the whole thing weighs about 65 pounds with speaker. The speaker is bolted to the stand which I feel like is important rather then it just sitting on a stand.

I dunno...I got more important things to worry about...like power cords...hahahah
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post #40277 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
Well it added about 12.5 pounds to each stand, so the whole thing weighs about 65 pounds with speaker. The speaker is bolted to the stand which I feel like is important rather then it just sitting on a stand.

I dunno...I got more important things to worry about...like power cords...hahahah
Drew,

Try to keep your speakers isolated from your stands.
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post #40278 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Anyone looking for a mint pair of Contour SR in Rosewood let me know. New room is being built in a month and I will be going for InWalls for rears etc..
Not specifically looking but still curious, I went to the "discontinued" section of the Dynaudio website and looked. I couldn't find a Contour SR. Are you meaning Contour 1.3 SE?

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post #40279 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 05:01 PM
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Not specifically looking but still curious, I went to the "discontinued" section of the Dynaudio website and looked. I couldn't find a Contour SR. Are you meaning Contour 1.3 SE?
These ones Ken.
https://www.dynaudio.com/discontinue...-s/contour-s-r
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post #40280 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 05:11 PM
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no quarter: those are the ones.... I saw a black pair on Audiogon used. I will price mine for less and throw in free shipping, will hopefully post them tonight. Kind of odd, but Dynaudio has gone to just in wall speakers for surrounds now. Nothing much in the line up that would be small with the exception of the M10 that would work decent for surrounds at a relative lower cost.

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post #40281 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 05:22 PM
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Interesting speaker. With a dust cap that size, how big is the actual voice coil on them?

I've noticed that Dynaudio has speakers with a wide range of dust cap sizes, and the big ones are usually vented. Are they also using a wide range of voice coil diameters and designs? Is the dust cap any indication of the VC size with them? Does a voice coil diameter matter or is more effect from the gap, winding style, wire thickness and shape or what?

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post #40282 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Interesting speaker. With a dust cap that size, how big is the actual voice coil on them?

I've noticed that Dynaudio has speakers with a wide range of dust cap sizes, and the big ones are usually vented. Are they also using a wide range of voice coil diameters and designs? Is the dust cap any indication of the VC size with them? Does a voice coil diameter matter or is more effect from the gap, winding style, wire thickness and shape or what?
Voice coil dust cap USUALLY indicates the VC diameter. Everything matters - but if the gap between the VC and magnets narrows (more efficient) that can cause some pretty nasty turbulence with the air flow at the driver resulting in an unrealistic sound. The gauge and the number of winding's in the VC can also increase efficiency you run the risk of burning out the VC when pushed. It's a tough balancing act. Oh let's not forget the type of wire in the VC. Aluminum is very light (great thing) but a lousy conductor. Copper is the standard for conductivity bur quite heavy compared to aluminum. Silver is even a better conductor than copper but stupid expensive - not to mention heavy and having a pretty low melting point.
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post #40283 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Interesting speaker. With a dust cap that size, how big is the actual voice coil on them?

I've noticed that Dynaudio has speakers with a wide range of dust cap sizes, and the big ones are usually vented. Are they also using a wide range of voice coil diameters and designs? Is the dust cap any indication of the VC size with them? Does a voice coil diameter matter or is more effect from the gap, winding style, wire thickness and shape or what?
They are actually not vented, only indented. I know, everyone always thinks they are vented...
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post #40284 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 05:59 PM
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Dynaudio Owner's Thread

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Anyone looking for a mint pair of Contour SR in Rosewood let me know. New room is being built in a month and I will be going for InWalls for rears etc..


There is a guy in the audio section of AVS classifieds looking for a pair. May want to reach out before listing and save some cash on fees. Just a thought.

WTB Dynaudio Contour SR
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post #40285 of 43578 Old 07-25-2018, 08:04 PM
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Thought this was an interesting read as I am looking into these exact power cables.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...iode-wire-labs
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post #40286 of 43578 Old 07-26-2018, 05:28 AM
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Thought this was an interesting read as I am looking into these exact power cables.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...iode-wire-labs
That's what I have. All my cables (power cords and inter-connects) are Triode Wire Labs.
Pete is a good friend of mine and he showed me how he builds his cables. He uses a French braid to intertwine the separate wires. (This is for RF and EMI shielding).

Did I notice a huge difference...NO. I had all Kimber before.

The thing I like about Triode cables is they are aesthetically pleasing and so supple. Even his 10 gauge power cords are supple. When you are on your hands and knees connecting stuff behind your stand, that suppleness becomes a real factor.
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post #40287 of 43578 Old 07-26-2018, 05:30 AM
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Drew,

Try to keep your speakers isolated from your stands.
Why mass load your stands and then decouple the speakers from the stands? Seems to defeat the purpose, at least in part. What do you use to isolate them?

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post #40288 of 43578 Old 07-26-2018, 07:10 AM
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Why mass load your stands and then decouple the speakers from the stands? Seems to defeat the purpose, at least in part. What do you use to isolate them?
In an ideal world, we would levitate our monitor speakers. Keep them locked in at an ideal height with no fore and aft or side to side movement. Of course, we are talking "Star Trek" technology. But since we don't have that type of technology we have to rely on what is available.

Stands are nothing more than to elevate our monitor speakers to the proper level. A properly mass-loaded stand will elevate our speakers to a proper height and should provide no fore-and-aft or side-to-side movement.
This all goes back to the Doppler Effect.

Why decouple the speakers from the stand? The stand is only there to elevate the speaker and also it has to function in such a way that doesn't allow for movement in all directions. With present technology, to "levitate" that speaker to the proper height we have to use a stand. Since the stand is only used to elevate the speakers to the proper height, we need to (and this gets complicated) decouple that speaker from the stand. There is no such thing as total decoupling, but there are ways to allow them to work together.

You use the stands to elevate your speaker, and properly mass-loaded will alleviate motion in all directions. We need to couple the speaker to the stand and at the same time decouple it so we don't introduce both floor or airborne vibrations or speaker-borne vibrations. How do you allow a supposedly dichotomous situation to work?: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm#bigfat
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post #40289 of 43578 Old 07-26-2018, 09:15 AM
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That's what I have. All my cables (power cords and inter-connects) are Triode Wire Labs.

Pete is a good friend of mine and he showed me how he builds his cables. He uses a French braid to intertwine the separate wires. (This is for RF and EMI shielding).



Did I notice a huge difference...NO. I had all Kimber before.



The thing I like about Triode cables is they are aesthetically pleasing and so supple. Even his 10 gauge power cords are supple. When you are on your hands and knees connecting stuff behind your stand, that suppleness becomes a real factor.


I’m considering the AQ power cables.

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post #40290 of 43578 Old 07-26-2018, 09:34 AM
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I think that's a better test for low bass extension and distortion. The bass notes in that track seem to be long, low frequency warble tones. Plenty stressing, but in a different way.

What I meant was bass notes with fast attack and decay, e.g. a synthesized bass drum hit with a sharp leading edge and an abrupt stop, a real drum hit in a dry acoustic with stuffing in the drum to damp the reverb, or a fast tapped or slapped bass guitar with dampened strings.
Yeah; point well taken...because truth is, I have never met a pair of speakers that can entirely stand up to it.

But...some handle it, better than others; and if it's such a measurement...I think it can help identify "cone breakup". BTW...the whole album, is a sonic wonder (not surprising, considering James Blake is a producer and most of the instrumentation is electronic); but another test track from it, I use...is I Never Learnt To Share. The deep-cycling "organ/synth", will really demonstrate...how low your FR will go.

I've heard some speakers, where it's like not even part of the music.

Hey...which ELACs is everyone raving about; the Debut B6? Anyone kinda have a side-by-side, against Uni-Fi UB5s?
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All The Music In The World > Auralic Aries Mini > Musical Fidelity M2si > Dynaudio EMIT M10s
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