Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 1358 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #40711 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Spurrier Sucks View Post
Lol. Have you added any snake oil to your system?
Nope, have not added anything for quite a while. I am happy with it as it is, focusing on retirement.
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post #40712 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 08:49 AM
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I didn't really appreciate STP, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains until way later. That changeover period from hair bands to alt rock was metaphorical to my own life.
These bands literally defined my youth... I was in 9th grade when this hit!

So here in SoCal in the early 90s it was the big 3-4 radio stations.... 106.7 KROQ (Depeche Mode, The Cure, U2, Ramones, Joan Jett, tears for fears etc) and 105.9, 99.1, 102.7 all of which vied for the pop/hip-hop station. We could find hair bands on the “classic rock” stations 95.5 and 96.7, which would once in a while play Metallica, but there was more classic rock then anything. So when Nirvana hit KROQ.... almost instantly people around my age (freshman in HS) were all in, because we were already seeking out the local punk bands and bands like Metallica because we just outgrew the 80s pop/rock new-wave sound and didn’t identify with poison and G&R etc. Along with Smells like Teen Spirit, came STP, AIC, PJ, Green Day, RATM, Sublime, No Doubt, Dinosaur Jr, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Bush, Metallica, Helmet, Tool, and so many many more, that almost overnight the radio station completely changed its musical format and only holiday weekends became 80s rock block weekends. MTV faded away the hair bands for grunge just as quickly. This was what I knew as I went through high school and still shapes my musical landscape. However as I’ve gotten older my musical outreach has broadened immensely. Ironically I’m actually currently enjoying the new wave of new wave music, but still have the grunge spirit and I love blues now along with many other genres.
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post #40713 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 10:29 AM
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What are your room dimensions?
There are ways to work around those nodes. It basically comes down to speaker position and listening position; it's more complicated than I'm implicating, but there are some simple work-arounds. It deals with quarter waves and other such things.
The other thing is bass traps. Bass trap is such a misnomer. Most commercially available bass traps are worthless.
Do you have any carpentry skills? Or know some carpenters? I can show you how to build a beautiful, aesthetically pleasing Bass Trap that works into the lower 30hz range. It's a sealed membrane design.
Room dimensions are approximately 13x16x8', with some variation (small closet in the rear corner, beam crossing the ceiling, sliding door, etc.). I do have carpentry skills and basic tools. And I already have some sealed membrane traps and some broadband bass absorbers.

I've tried making membrane traps that target the mid 30s and didn't have much success. The first ones I made were about 1' deep with 0.5" membranes of either OSB or plywood. They were ineffective because the thick membrane was too stiff. I also made a couple of 2x2x4' free standing traps with 1/4" low density particle board on the faces. They had some effect, but not as much as I had hoped. I'd have to pack all the corners of the room to meaningfully reduce the lowest modes, and that would take up a lot of space. I ended up using the corners instead for broader band bass absorption.

Now you've gone and given me a chance to show off
Here is a picture from behind the listening position. Room treatments are numbered. Legend is below the picture.



1 - Corners crossed with 2" OC705 fiberglass board with foil facing on the front. The cavity behind them is filled with fiberglass batting. The OC 705 boards are free to move in and out a little bit. The batting behind them acts like a spring to hold them against the front of the frame. This was an idea of mine that seemed to help extend their effectiveness a little lower.
2 - Shallow membrane traps tuned for wide bandwidth over the upper bass and lower midrange. There is an air gap between the membrane and the vertical wood slats in front of them. The slat spacing and air gap were chosen to resonate in an attempt to enhance the effectiveness of the membrane trap for a certain mode. It didn't really work, so the slats are basically decorative only.
3 - Membrane traps, mid-bass tuning
4 - Absorber, 4" mineral wool boards mounted on 1.5" standoffs and fiberglass batting behind.
5 - 2D Diffusor
6 - Membrane traps, tuned for the floor-ceiling axial mode (0,0,1), around 72 Hz IIRC
7 - Hybrid absorber/diffusor. 2" mineral wool boards with cardboard glued onto their face, mounted on 1.5" standoffs. A pattern of holes and slots was cut into the cardboard such that the mineral wool is more exposed at the first reflection points and less exposed away from them.
8 - 2" mineral wool boards mounted on 1.5" standoffs and fiberglass batting behind. The front half is a first reflection absorber, the rear half is covered by 1/8" fiberboard to minimize absorption above the bass.
9 - DIY acoustic door

I used Guilford of Maine acoustic fabric stretched over hobby board frames to hide everything. Unseen in the rear of the room are first reflection absorbers on the left and behind the listening position, more bass trapping, diffusion, and a small closet.

The concept I was going for was to make the plane containing the speakers and listener's head into a reflection free zone, by chasing down each reflection seen in the early impulse response and trying to knock it down with absorption and/or diffusion. But I wanted to minimize the mid and high frequency absorption everywhere outside of that plane because I wanted to keep a reasonably flat RT60 vs. frequency. I learned a lot and it worked out OK, although I'll do some things differently if I ever have the chance (unlikely with two young children now). RT60 ended up being flat, but short at 250ms. Waterfall response is relatively well controlled except at the already mentioned 35 Hz and 42 Hz.

The way I'm dealing with those modes is to use small speakers that don't excite them too much, and I have two subs placed at the midpoints of the side walls. Placing them symmetrically on opposing side walls cancels the odd-order axial width modes (42Hz, 126Hz, 210 Hz). And placing them at midpoints of the room length puts them in a null at the frequencies of the odd-order axial length modes (35 Hz, 105 Hz, 175 Hz). The harder problem to solve are nulls related to placement of the speakers and listening position. I don't have a ton of freedom with placement because of functional constraints. Another problem I've got is a heavyweight sliding glass door behind the blinds on the left, which sucks some midbass out of the left speaker only.

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post #40714 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 10:57 AM
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Is it worth it for your ears?
They are the business and are staying.
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post #40715 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 11:19 AM
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They are the business and are staying.


Are you plugged into the furman or wall direct?


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post #40716 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 11:24 AM
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Appetite for Destruction (GnR) was my transition album from 80's glam rock to 90's grunge rock. Nirvana and Pearl Jam get a lot of credit for killing hair bands (and rightfully so!), but Axel Rose and Slash at least deserve an honorable mention in the discussion.

Out went Aerosmith, Run DMC, Prince, Michael Jackson, White Snake, Poison, etc, and in came Metallica, NIN, grunge, alternative, gangster/miami bass rap, etc.

My Dad is the one who made classic rock (pretty everything from late 60's to early 80's: Pink Floyd, Led Zep, Yes, Jethro Tull, Beatles, America, Neil Young, and so on...) and 80's alt/pop/rock (Cars, Talking Heads, Tom Petty, Springsteen, Dire Straights, Blue Oyster Cult, et al.) my true nostalgic and most-loved genres.

80's (and to some extent 90's) pop music is usually what I end up playing for others since I know hard rock and folk music from any decade isn't for everybody.

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post #40717 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 11:27 AM
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I didn't like 80s music in the 80s either. Back then I was in school and predominantly into 1970s prog bands and Zeppelin. I've grown to appreciate some early and mid-80s pop, but I still don't like hair band music.

Grunge hit when I was in college. At first it was a refreshing change from the hair bands. But after a couple years it turned into a monochromatic mass of copycat just like the hair band era before it, and the synth pop era before that.

Looking back, I think I've always turned away from mainstream popular music when one genre is enjoying a wave of popularity. The gaps in between one wave dying out and the next wave taking over are when new and interesting artists get their chance.
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post #40718 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 11:33 AM
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They are the business and are staying.
Congrats Drew
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post #40719 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 11:42 AM
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I didn't like 80s music in the 80s either. Back then I was in school and predominantly into 1970s prog bands and Zeppelin. I've grown to appreciate some early and mid-80s pop, but I still don't like hair band music.

Grunge hit when I was in college. At first it was a refreshing change from the hair bands. But after a couple years it turned into a monochromatic mass of copycat just like the hair band era before it, and the synth pop era before that.

Looking back, I think I've always turned away from mainstream popular music when one genre is enjoying a wave of popularity. The gaps in between one wave dying out and the next wave taking over are when new and interesting artists get their chance.
I can relate to this. While in college in the early 2000's, Emo/Pop/Punk was all the rage and I hated it (and still do) with a passion. I'm talking about Blink-182, Dashboard Confessional, Fall Out Boy, Sum 41, and other whiny, emo bands. That high-pitched, fake crying voice just annoyed me to no end.

Instead, I was into the White Stripes, Black Keys, Strokes, Arctic Monkeys, Kings of Leon and the rest of the garage-rock revival bands. Now that the folk rock/bluegrass trend is almost dead (RIP I'll miss you Lumineers, Mumford & Sons, Avett Brothers, Band of Horses, etc.) it looks like dream-synth-pop is back in the zeitgeist thanks to Twin Peaks and other David Lynchian-esque music and video projects. These days things are getting pretty trippy and I'm okay with that.
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post #40720 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 11:45 AM
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These bands literally defined my youth... I was in 9th grade when this hit!

So here in SoCal in the early 90s it was the big 3-4 radio stations.... 106.7 KROQ (Depeche Mode, The Cure, U2, Ramones, Joan Jett, tears for fears etc) and 105.9, 99.1, 102.7 all of which vied for the pop/hip-hop station. We could find hair bands on the “classic rock” stations 95.5 and 96.7, which would once in a while play Metallica, but there was more classic rock then anything. So when Nirvana hit KROQ.... almost instantly people around my age (freshman in HS) were all in, because we were already seeking out the local punk bands and bands like Metallica because we just outgrew the 80s pop/rock new-wave sound and didn’t identify with poison and G&R etc. Along with Smells like Teen Spirit, came STP, AIC, PJ, Green Day, RATM, Sublime, No Doubt, Dinosaur Jr, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Bush, Metallica, Helmet, Tool, and so many many more, that almost overnight the radio station completely changed its musical format and only holiday weekends became 80s rock block weekends. MTV faded away the hair bands for grunge just as quickly. This was what I knew as I went through high school and still shapes my musical landscape. However as I’ve gotten older my musical outreach has broadened immensely. Ironically I’m actually currently enjoying the new wave of new wave music, but still have the grunge spirit and I love blues now along with many other genres.
Yeah, it's amazing how your music preferences can evolve over the years. When I was a kid it was all Thrash/Heavy Metal or Classical only time I listened to anything else was if I was around friends (because NONE of them listened to what I did).

Now days I pretty much stick to Progressive 75% of the time (ALWAYS when I'm driving) when I'm at home though my playlist is always on random and it will bounce between a wide varieties of Genres everything from Classical, Rock, Classic Rock, Folk, Country, Metal, Thrash, Punk, Classical, Jazz, Dubstep, Trance, New Wave, NEW New Wave, Rap, Pop and so many others I can't even think of...
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post #40721 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 11:54 AM
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Yeah, it's amazing how your music preferences can evolve over the years. When I was a kid it was all Thrash/Heavy Metal or Classical only time I listened to anything else was if I was around friends (because NONE of them listened to what I did).

Now days I pretty much stick to Progressive 75% of the time (ALWAYS when I'm driving) when I'm at home though my playlist is always on random and it will bounce between a wide varieties of Genres everything from Classical, Rock, Classic Rock, Folk, Country, Metal, Thrash, Punk, Classical, Jazz, Dubstep, Trance, New Wave, NEW New Wave, Rap, Pop and so many others I can't even think of...
LOL I will sadly admit to listening to a lot of nu-metal in high school: Korn, Staind, Limp Bizkit, 311, Puddle of Mudd, Nickelback, and other bands that can't spell common words. At the time I didn't hate it. But now....shivers...

To me, the Deftones are the unholy amalgamation of grunge, nu-metal, and emo-punk that still holds up today. "Passenger" on the white pony album also features... wait for it.... Maynard as well.

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post #40722 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 12:03 PM
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LOL I will sadly admit to listening to a lot of nu-metal in high school: Korn, Staind, Limp Bizkit, 311, Puddle of Mudd, Nickelback, and other bands that can't spell common words. At the time I didn't hate it. But now....shivers...

To me, the Deftones are the unholy amalgamation of grunge, nu-metal, and emo-punk that still holds up today. "Passenger" on the white pony also features... wait for it.... Maynard as well.
I worked with a guy that listened to most of those bands, I did end up buying a couple Korn CD's because they had a couple songs that I really liked, I enjoyed pretty much all of 311's stuff too, the others may have had a song or 2 I could tolerate but that's about it.

I never could get into the emo stuff, a guy that worked for me LOVED New Found Glory and I just wanted to rip my ear drums out because his voice was so annoying, the sad thing is after hearing the stuff over the years I actually started to like a song or 2 of theirs, or maybe it was just Stockholm Syndrome...
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post #40723 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 12:07 PM
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I worked with a guy that listened to most of those bands, I did end up buying a couple Korn CD's because they had a couple songs that I really liked, I enjoyed pretty much all of 311's stuff too, the others may have had a song or 2 I could tolerate but that's about it.

I never could get into the emo stuff, a guy that worked for me LOVED New Found Glory and I just wanted to rip my ear drums out because his voice was so annoying, the sad thing is after hearing the stuff over the years I actually started to like a song or 2 of theirs, or maybe it was just Stockholm Syndrome...
Ugh thanks a lot for reminding me of NFG. One of my roommates had a NFG window sticker on his car (as opposed to the dave matthews, OAR, Phish and other college jam bands normal people were into). It was really bad.

Of those bands, I could tolerate Jimmy Eat World but that's about it.

EDIT: I almost forgot, but I've actually seen both Korn and 311 at festivals here at Fair Park in Dallas. The new reincarnation of Sublime opened for 311 so you can imagine the amount of "contact" involved lol. I preferred 311 overall but Jonathan Davis wasn't as bad as I feared. 311 as humans have aged much better though. Davis is fighting his male-patterned baldness and weight so much at this point that he's gone full mullet and looks more like a young David Crosby these days.

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post #40724 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 12:11 PM
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Slightly unrelated, but I'm really enjoying this Weezer/Toto youtube cover battle that's been unfolding of late. I thought Weezer's "Africa" cover was solid but not amazing despite shooting up the online charts. I like Weezer just fine, FTR.

But when Toto responded in kind with their live "Hash Pipe" cover, well.... Mic drop. Toto >> Weezer this round...
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post #40725 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, it's amazing how your music preferences can evolve over the years. When I was a kid it was all Thrash/Heavy Metal or Classical only time I listened to anything else was if I was around friends (because NONE of them listened to what I did).

Now days I pretty much stick to Progressive 75% of the time (ALWAYS when I'm driving) when I'm at home though my playlist is always on random and it will bounce between a wide varieties of Genres everything from Classical, Rock, Classic Rock, Folk, Country, Metal, Thrash, Punk, Classical, Jazz, Dubstep, Trance, New Wave, NEW New Wave, Rap, Pop and so many others I can't even think of...
LOL I will sadly admit to listening to a lot of nu-metal in high school: Korn, Staind, Limp Bizkit, 311, Puddle of Mudd, Nickelback, and other bands that can't spell common words. At the time I didn't hate it. But now....shivers...

To me, the Deftones are the unholy amalgamation of grunge, nu-metal, and emo-punk that still holds up today. "Passenger" on the white pony album also features... wait for it.... Maynard as well.
White Pony is great!
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post #40726 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 04:24 PM
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Are you plugged into the furman or wall direct?


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Wall to Furman for now. Might pickup two more from Furman to DAC and amp but the gains will not be nearly as good for the money.
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post #40727 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 05:44 PM
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Wall to Furman for now. Might pickup two more from Furman to DAC and amp but the gains will not be nearly as good for the money.
Drew the foundation is where it's at (being what's common to everything). If I were to guess what be the next best it would be to the amp. The Dac doesn't need a high current cord like the Thunder. Something to consider.
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post #40728 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 05:46 PM
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Wall to Furman for now. Might pickup two more from Furman to DAC and amp but the gains will not be nearly as good for the money.


So you connected the AQ between wall and Furman??? My good friend is an AQ dealer and is shipping me that same cable to try out. Trying to decide if I should use it to go Hegel 190 to wall direct or into my Panamax 5300 and have the Hegel go into that. Right now the H190 is going direct to wall with supplied cable. Thoughts?

And yes looking to replace the Panamax with something else eventually.

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post #40729 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 06:10 PM
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So you connected the AQ between wall and Furman??? My good friend is an AQ dealer and is shipping me that same cable to try out. Trying to decide if I should use it to go Hegel 190 to wall direct or into my Panamax 5300 and have the Hegel go into that. Right now the H190 is going direct to wall with supplied cable. Thoughts?

And yes looking to replace the Panamax with something else eventually.

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What are you thinking about swapping the 5300 out for? I have one and everything in my HT system is running through it, I really wish it had a couple more outlets...
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post #40730 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 06:13 PM
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What are you thinking about swapping the 5300 out for? I have one and everything in my HT system is running through it, I really wish it had a couple more outlets...


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post #40731 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 06:35 PM
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So you connected the AQ between wall and Furman??? My good friend is an AQ dealer and is shipping me that same cable to try out. Trying to decide if I should use it to go Hegel 190 to wall direct or into my Panamax 5300 and have the Hegel go into that. Right now the H190 is going direct to wall with supplied cable. Thoughts?

And yes looking to replace the Panamax with something else eventually.

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I'd do interconnects and speaker cables first if you haven't done those yet. Wall to power center is step one for power cables. I have no experience with Panamax.

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post #40732 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
I'd do interconnects and speaker cables first if you haven't done those yet. Wall to power center is step one for power cables. I have no experience with Panamax.


I’m good on the IC and speaker cable level. I’ll try the Thunder from wall to the 5300 first. Then the h190 direct.


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post #40733 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post
A Torus RM-20


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Interesting, do you need 20 amps, or is there a particular reason to go with 20 amp?
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post #40734 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 08:05 PM
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Interesting, do you need 20 amps, or is there a particular reason to go with 20 amp?
Upgrade flexibility if I need it. Plus, can get a rm-20 for less then a rm15.

I listened to both. Just felt the 20 offered a bit more detail and openness over the rm15.

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post #40735 of 43594 Old 08-19-2018, 08:10 PM
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post #40736 of 43594 Old 08-20-2018, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
I'd do interconnects and speaker cables first if you haven't done those yet. Wall to power center is step one for power cables. I have no experience with Panamax.
If you are the one of the very few people who hasn't made up their mind already, here's an article on power cables from Mark Fischer, who was the Chief Electrical Engineer at Bell Communications Research. http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5565. It's pretty strongly worded, so best to give it a miss if you're a believer. I say it again: this article is for those who are undecided and/or anyone with an open mind on the issue! I'm not seeking to provoke anyone who's passionate about expensive cables. Each to their own.

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post #40737 of 43594 Old 08-20-2018, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
I'd do interconnects and speaker cables first if you haven't done those yet. Wall to power center is step one for power cables. I have no experience with Panamax.
Drew have you tried from the wall to the amp with the Thunder? If not I would give it a try for a couple of days to see if it sounds better or worse.
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post #40738 of 43594 Old 08-20-2018, 05:05 AM
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Happy birthday steve !! wishing you good health success mate...
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post #40739 of 43594 Old 08-20-2018, 06:58 AM
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Room dimensions are approximately 13x16x8', with some variation (small closet in the rear corner, beam crossing the ceiling, sliding door, etc.). I do have carpentry skills and basic tools. And I already have some sealed membrane traps and some broadband bass absorbers.

I've tried making membrane traps that target the mid 30s and didn't have much success. The first ones I made were about 1' deep with 0.5" membranes of either OSB or plywood. They were ineffective because the thick membrane was too stiff. I also made a couple of 2x2x4' free standing traps with 1/4" low density particle board on the faces. They had some effect, but not as much as I had hoped. I'd have to pack all the corners of the room to meaningfully reduce the lowest modes, and that would take up a lot of space. I ended up using the corners instead for broader band bass absorption.

Now you've gone and given me a chance to show off
Here is a picture from behind the listening position. Room treatments are numbered. Legend is below the picture.



1 - Corners crossed with 2" OC705 fiberglass board with foil facing on the front. The cavity behind them is filled with fiberglass batting. The OC 705 boards are free to move in and out a little bit. The batting behind them acts like a spring to hold them against the front of the frame. This was an idea of mine that seemed to help extend their effectiveness a little lower.
2 - Shallow membrane traps tuned for wide bandwidth over the upper bass and lower midrange. There is an air gap between the membrane and the vertical wood slats in front of them. The slat spacing and air gap were chosen to resonate in an attempt to enhance the effectiveness of the membrane trap for a certain mode. It didn't really work, so the slats are basically decorative only.
3 - Membrane traps, mid-bass tuning
4 - Absorber, 4" mineral wool boards mounted on 1.5" standoffs and fiberglass batting behind.
5 - 2D Diffusor
6 - Membrane traps, tuned for the floor-ceiling axial mode (0,0,1), around 72 Hz IIRC
7 - Hybrid absorber/diffusor. 2" mineral wool boards with cardboard glued onto their face, mounted on 1.5" standoffs. A pattern of holes and slots was cut into the cardboard such that the mineral wool is more exposed at the first reflection points and less exposed away from them.
8 - 2" mineral wool boards mounted on 1.5" standoffs and fiberglass batting behind. The front half is a first reflection absorber, the rear half is covered by 1/8" fiberboard to minimize absorption above the bass.
9 - DIY acoustic door

I used Guilford of Maine acoustic fabric stretched over hobby board frames to hide everything. Unseen in the rear of the room are first reflection absorbers on the left and behind the listening position, more bass trapping, diffusion, and a small closet.

The concept I was going for was to make the plane containing the speakers and listener's head into a reflection free zone, by chasing down each reflection seen in the early impulse response and trying to knock it down with absorption and/or diffusion. But I wanted to minimize the mid and high frequency absorption everywhere outside of that plane because I wanted to keep a reasonably flat RT60 vs. frequency. I learned a lot and it worked out OK, although I'll do some things differently if I ever have the chance (unlikely with two young children now). RT60 ended up being flat, but short at 250ms. Waterfall response is relatively well controlled except at the already mentioned 35 Hz and 42 Hz.

The way I'm dealing with those modes is to use small speakers that don't excite them too much, and I have two subs placed at the midpoints of the side walls. Placing them symmetrically on opposing side walls cancels the odd-order axial width modes (42Hz, 126Hz, 210 Hz). And placing them at midpoints of the room length puts them in a null at the frequencies of the odd-order axial length modes (35 Hz, 105 Hz, 175 Hz). The harder problem to solve are nulls related to placement of the speakers and listening position. I don't have a ton of freedom with placement because of functional constraints. Another problem I've got is a heavyweight sliding glass door behind the blinds on the left, which sucks some midbass out of the left speaker only.

You forgot:



10. Ayre AX-5 Twenty

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post #40740 of 43594 Old 08-20-2018, 07:09 AM
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Yeah, it's amazing how your music preferences can evolve over the years. When I was a kid it was all Thrash/Heavy Metal or Classical only time I listened to anything else was if I was around friends (because NONE of them listened to what I did).

Now days I pretty much stick to Progressive 75% of the time (ALWAYS when I'm driving) when I'm at home though my playlist is always on random and it will bounce between a wide varieties of Genres everything from Classical, Rock, Classic Rock, Folk, Country, Metal, Thrash, Punk, Classical, Jazz, Dubstep, Trance, New Wave, NEW New Wave, Rap, Pop and so many others I can't even think of...

I expanded similarly into other genres over the years. But I listen to more 80s music now than I did back then. I "discovered" Billy Joel recently and have a newfound appreciation of his songwriting and musicianship. My brother and I are huge Cure fans. But I definitely rotate through metal in my playlist as well, both classic metal and contemporary metal.

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