Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 1463 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #43861 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 10:44 AM
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Who says the cabinets are made in China.

My dealer says all the cabinets are made in Denmark. They would know. They are the oldest Dynaudio dealer in the U.S. They know the owners, they were at Munich, and have talked to them. They have done the factory tour before. They even had the one pair of Confidence 60s in the store for several weeks back in November; yes, the ones that were on a world tour of trade shows. I asked over the weekend. They said Denmark! Nothing made in China.

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post #43862 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post
Who says the cabinets are made in China.

My dealer says all the cabinets are made in Denmark. They would know. They are the oldest Dynaudio dealer in the U.S. They know the owners, they were at Munich, and have talked to them. They have done the factory tour before. They even had the one pair of Confidence 60s in the store for several weeks back in November; yes, the ones that were on a world tour of trade shows. I asked over the weekend. They said Denmark! Nothing made in China.
Easy to solve: Just take a picture of "Made in Denmark" on the back of the speaker and post or is it "Assembled in Denmark" not the same or "Designed in Denmark assembled in China" always a tricky fan favorite.
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post #43863 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post
Easy to solve: Just take a picture of "Made in Denmark" on the back of the speaker and post or is it "Assembled in Denmark" not the same or "Designed in Denmark assembled in China" always a tricky fan favorite.
I thought of that for the next time I'm there. They have a pair of 20s and 30s.

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post #43864 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Kevin:

Naim Nait 5si - Rega Elex-r - Musical Fidelity M3si <<<<<<<<<<<< Out of that group the Rega Elex-r or the Naim 5si, but are you looking new or used? There is a Musical Fidelity M6si a much better MF piece on Audiomart for sale and or a A5, I had both of those and they have a lot more good juice and bang for the buck if your looking in the used market, if not used the first two would be your better choice.
I'm only interested in new products
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post #43865 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post
Easy to solve: Just take a picture of "Made in Denmark" on the back of the speaker and post or is it "Assembled in Denmark" not the same or "Designed in Denmark assembled in China" always a tricky fan favorite.
Hegel was getting in trouble by not claiming this on their products, the newer Confidence should state Assembled in Denmark or Designed in Denmark, one would think.

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post #43866 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 01:37 PM
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Otto himself said the cabinets were offshored but not sure if he confirmed china or latvia
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post #43867 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post
Who says the cabinets are made in China.

My dealer says all the cabinets are made in Denmark. They would know. They are the oldest Dynaudio dealer in the U.S. They know the owners, they were at Munich, and have talked to them. They have done the factory tour before. They even had the one pair of Confidence 60s in the store for several weeks back in November; yes, the ones that were on a world tour of trade shows. I asked over the weekend. They said Denmark! Nothing made in China.
Your dealer either flat out lied to you, or he doesn't know as much as you think he does. See below. The higher end lines are assembled in Denmark, but all the cabinets are made elsewhere now.

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Originally Posted by Otto J View Post
Sorry I have not had the time to reply, I haven't yet read all posts since my last answer, but I see some discussions on manufacturing origin, that I would like to adress. Quick answer, yes we have outsourced cabinet manufacturing. Long answer:

Our goal is to deliver the best possible product to our customers. For a long time, delivering the best quality meant making it in Denmark. As little as we would like to admit it, this is no longer the case for every part of the loudspeaker. To achieve the best quality, especially at the scale that we need to be able to meet demand (which is actually our main struggle right now), we have to continually monitor our options for manufacturing. We have been and still are proud of the manufacturing that we are doing in Skanderborg, Denmark - but, we don't want to make things in Denmark simply for the sake of doing it, we want to do it because it adds value. And when it comes to cabinets, we have to realize that for now, there are options on the market that allows us to deliver even better quality in certain (not all) areas. If we were not able to face this reality, we would not be doing our job properly. It does mean that we will put less of an emphasis on "Made in Denmark" in our marketing in the future - we believe in openness and honesty, and we don't want to give a false impression. In line with this, let me point out that final assembly of our CI products, as well as Xeo 2 and it's successor Xeo 10 and the Emit line, either has or will soon be moved to Goertek's manufacturing facilities in China. As we need to increase capacity, it would simply be crazy not to leverage the manufacturing expertise that resides in the Goertek group that we are now part of.

Please note that this is not a result of scaling down the amount of manufacturing done in Denmark - it is rearranged a bit, but we are making more speakers than ever in Denmark - the outsourced manufacturing is added to the significant investments that has been done in our Skanderborg facility, not replacing it. The motivation driver here is not to close down Skanderborg, it is to deliver a better Dynaudio experience, to more people. To increase quality, not decrease it. And by the way, these decisions were made by the management team in Skanderborg, not in China. This includes the responsible Product Manager - me.

As I have mentioned before, the criticism that resides on this and other internet forums, is in quite stark contrast to the reactions on the show floor, where we have received high praise for the perceived quality and finish of the new Confidence. A level of quality and finish that we would not have realized, if we were not able to make these kinds of tough decisions.

I am not going into any heated debates regarding people's opinions and feelings about this change in strategy - the above are the facts.
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post #43868 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Make Em' Dance View Post
Your dealer either flat out lied to you, or he doesn't know as much as you think he does. See below. The higher end lines are assembled in Denmark, but all the cabinets are made elsewhere now.
He didn't lie to me, but fair enough on the other info. I'll show this to him this week.

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post #43869 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
The Confidence 20's should have been just under the 10K mark, especially with cabinets being made in China, it would be nice for a chance to pass along some of that cost savings to the customer, which rarely happens!
In light of Garman's recent comment and several others regarding cabinet manufacture in China I wanted to add another perspective. I have spent many years working in venture capital and private equity and corporate finance and have some thoughts about this manufacturing change to China. My first thought is, I'm sure many people here are share holders in companies either through investment, 401k's, retirement or employee ownership. A company exists solely to generate revenue for it's shareholders. If a company can produce a product with the same quality and performance for a lower manufacturing cost it should. If it can demand the same pricing or more, it should. That is just basic economics. So when Dynaudio starts producing cabinets off-shore to save money (it could be anywhere, the reasons are the same) and does not pass along the savings to the customer, that is the right thing for them to do. Again, because the company exists to provide value to it's shareholder's equity.
Now, here is why we should be HAPPY that Dynaudio is producing it's (some?) of it's cabinetry in China. When Dynaudio was acquired by Goertek in 2014, a Chinese Holding Company of consumer electronics products, it was likely NOT in the best financial position. In my financial experience, when a company is picked up by a holding company or a private equity firm it is because that company is in trouble. It they were making fat margins and struggling to meet the market demand (every thing is awesome!) then there would be no reason to sell to anyone and dilute the value. I have a suspicion that Dynaudio was struggling to remain competitive in the current market where the companies they compete with for business (forget about sound quality and just think about dollars and volume of customers) like ELAC have much larger margins than Dynaudio. It is very likely that Dynaudio could have wound down it business and closed or sold it's brand name because of financial pressures. It makes sense that CEO Lars Prisak would come into leadership at Dynaudio not to generate new products but to either make the company more profitable or to sell it off. Once the purchase was made and the transition completed he retires and his leadership is replaced by 2 Goertek guys, the investor that lead the acquisition of Dynaudio, Peng Peng, and an operations guy, Max Jiang, from Goertek. This is a classic private equity move. Their new jobs were to decrease costs and improve margins while maintaining the brand and performance of the product. This is what we should be most happy about. We could have lost Dynaudio but what we get instead is new products with improved performance. The trade offs are that some cabinets are made in China, Dynaudio has added a line of mass produced bluetooth speakers, etc. and a little loss in exclusivity. The alternative could be much worse. For example Dual was a leading manufacture of turntables, now they make cheap car stereo decks. Even Mark Levinson is now owned by Samsung! With the global economy, some compromises are just a fact of life. Otherwise many "high-end" and "luxury" products might dry up due to low volume demand or everything may become priced out of range for anyone but the 1%'ers.
I do completely agree with the need for transparency so the buyer knows where the products are made, either wholly or impart (like the contents listing on the window of a new car). I just wanted to share this alternate way of looking at it without any disrespect to others here and their opinions about Dynaudio's decision to move some of their manufacturing.

It will be a long time before I would be able to afford anything from the new Confidence product line, but in the meantime I am going to continue to love my C1 Platinum's.
Andy

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post #43870 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 02:34 PM
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He didn't lie to me, but fair enough on the other info. I'll show this to him this week.


I was told by Dynaudio in April that the cabinets for confidence were made in Denmark and that the outsourcing was only the automotive finish which they were having quality issues with at the time. Then back to Denmark for final assembly.


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post #43871 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 03:24 PM
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Andy: I agree with most of your post and get the whole global economy thing, the problem is, it's far from a level playing field and it's a difficult road to making it a fair one. Dynaudio shouldn't have told their current customers or perspective ones that everything will stay in Denmark, that obviously was never going to happened. I think it already has effected the quality of the New Confidence line from a QC standard, hence the delay. Ironically we are going on almost 2 years now for the new Confidence line, just a tad disappointed, as I mostly likely just purchased my last pair. I don't disrespect your opinion at all nor anyone's that is civil on here, it was very well written, and sheds the light on the complexity of it. I have a Brother-In-Law is stationed near the South China Sea, and he states over and over the money we spending at the shops by products being made by them is going to hurt us in the long run, boy I hope he is wrong. "Slowly but steadily they build up their economic, military, and technological superiority at our expense" https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...l-superiority/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...ea-silent-war/ <<<<< When you forcefully start taking things is when things will get ugly, and we don't hear much about this in the media, go figure.

jnelson2000: That's good information to know, but didn't Otto tell us some thing different?
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post #43872 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 03:26 PM
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I thought Otto said all the cabinets moving forward, on the higher end brands (Contour, Confidence) would be made in Latvia. I remember this, because I was not sure exactly where this country is, so I used google maps to find it.Closer to Denmark than China...

https://maps.google.ca/maps?vet=12ah...8gEwAXoECAMQBQ

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post #43873 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post
I was told by Dynaudio in April that the cabinets for confidence were made in Denmark and that the outsourcing was only the automotive finish which they were having quality issues with at the time. Then back to Denmark for final assembly.


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Who at Dynaudio told you that? This forum is getting worse and worse. It's like a rotating wheel of misinformation spewed over and over again about topics that have been hashed out long ago.

Go back and read Otto's old posts. There are many more about the subject beyond the one I quoted previously. He even goes after far as stating that the curvature of the new cabinets could NOT have been done in house in Denmark.

We are all either going to trust Otto as a credible source....or not. It's one way or the other. We can't just believe him when we want to, and then discredit him for stuff that we don't want to be true, but actually is.
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post #43874 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 03:41 PM
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Hey this info is from Petes own Blog, just curious if Pete knows more about this than most of us? I believe he took a factory tour last year..

http://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2018/...ory-visit.html

Make Em' Dance: Plenty of misinformation everywhere these days, heck I get caught reposting something that I am not sure of. I am still not sure what the hell they are using as drivers in what speakers these days, you go to their site and they leave those details out! LOL I think the long delay has made things worse when it comes to correct information, that is for sure!

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Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post
I was told by Dynaudio in April that the cabinets for confidence were made in Denmark and that the outsourcing was only the automotive finish which they were having quality issues with at the time. Then back to Denmark for final assembly.


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I’ve been to their factory, met Otto and a whole bunch of nice Dynaudio folks.. they make cabinets across the water in Latvia and now they also make them in China.
Fact, not fake news... cheers.
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post #43876 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceTripper View Post
Who says the cabinets are made in China.

My dealer says all the cabinets are made in Denmark. They would know. They are the oldest Dynaudio dealer in the U.S. They know the owners, they were at Munich, and have talked to them. They have done the factory tour before. They even had the one pair of Confidence 60s in the store for several weeks back in November; yes, the ones that were on a world tour of trade shows. I asked over the weekend. They said Denmark! Nothing made in China.
I do mate... and the folks at the factory confirmed this. Not that I’m really bothered.. the people at Aarhus still do the designs. The last pure in-house speaker was the S40. Even before that, some cabinets were already made in Latvia..
I’m sure this not something that requires James Bond to dig up... they were quite open about it. Will production return to Denmark? Maybe, I don’t know that one...
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post #43877 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Hey this info is from Petes own Blog, just curious if Pete knows more about this than most of us? I believe he took a factory tour last year..

http://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2018/...ory-visit.html
Ah.... that was a wonderful trip.. better than the day I visited Cupertino... I think it's only bested by my trip to the Great Wall
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He didn't lie to me, but fair enough on the other info. I'll show this to him this week.
I'm actually keen to see what he says... after all, you did laud him as a very big player in Dynaudio and he has also visited the factory, so he should have been given the tour and would have spoken to the management..
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post #43879 of 44592 Old 07-15-2019, 06:33 PM
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I'm actually keen to see what he says... after all, you did laud him as a very big player in Dynaudio and he has also visited the factory, so he should have been given the tour and would have spoken to the management..
I'll ask when I'm there...mate.

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Guys, I am not very computer savvy, usually i use my outdated camera to take photos, then load them on my laptop, drag and drop the photos into the square below. Can someone tell me how to load photos taken with my iPad here, the camera is much better than my portable digital camera. Do I have to use photobucket or something?, or can I somehow just import them from my photos on my iPad?...help!

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Guys, I am not very computer savvy, usually i use my outdated camera to take photos, then load them on my laptop, drag and drop the photos into the square below. Can someone tell me how to load photos taken with my iPad here, the camera is much better than my portable digital camera. Do I have to use photobucket or something?, or can I somehow just import them from my photos on my iPad?...help!
If your using your iPad and accessing AVS from Safari there is a little Ikon at the top right of the screen that looks like a "Paper Clip" if you hit that that will allow you to Take Photo or Access Photo Library for pictures and Browse your Table for pictures and attach them here. There is an App for AVS but I rarely use it, I would assume it is done this way as well. Now are you using the iPad to post or your computer? If your using your computer you will need to download the pictures from you iPad onto your computer then access them from there. I just did a test post from my Computer... Below..

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Thanks Garman, I am trying to use my I-pad, that is what I am posting this message with. I just don’t know the sequence to follow. I see the little square thing, when I hit that, I see the “copy” option, but then what? I go into my photos, select a photo, and a little blue arrow checks on the photo, but then what? No option to paste when I click back in this window, or do I do that in the square below?

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post #43884 of 44592 Old 07-16-2019, 10:21 AM
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no quarter: You need to go to AVS on your iPad and look at the Green Tab hit the +(Plus tab), if you go over to the right side you will see 3 icon's one is "Trash" other is a "Paper Clip" and the last looks like a Paper Airplane, that one is used when your ready to post. If you click on the Paper Clip you can post pictures from taking a pic, or your picture library and or browse button.. Look at pictures...
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post #43885 of 44592 Old 07-16-2019, 11:25 AM
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Garman
I don’t have that green bar with its options on my iPad, just the one above it with the square with an arrow pointing up, next is a + sign, then a double square. How do I get that green bar to pop up?

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post #43886 of 44592 Old 07-16-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no quarter View Post
Garman

I don’t have that green bar with its options on my iPad, just the one above it with the square with an arrow pointing up, next is a + sign, then a double square. How do I get that green bar to pop up?


Just download Tapatalk and add avsforum. Much simpler then www


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #43887 of 44592 Old 07-16-2019, 12:29 PM
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If you don't have the current software you might not have the same thing I am seeing. I would then use Taptatalk...

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post #43888 of 44592 Old 07-16-2019, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post
Just download Tapatalk and add avsforum. Much simpler then www


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As I said, I am a computer dummy really, isn’t Tapatalk for someone using an IPhone with a plan, as in paying a provider to use the phone? I only use my iPad at work and home from the wireless network here and at my apartment. I was hoping to be able to just drag and drop photos, or copy and paste, like I do with my laptop. As far as I know, I am not using the AVS APP, I just have a bookmark I click on, and it brings me here. Do I need to download the App to get that green bar that Garman has? Not sure I want to bother with this Tapatalk thing, for one, I have never used it, two, it just seems like a lot of BS...I mean, I should be able to take a photo with this iPad, then post it, no???
I actually was able to do it on the Naim forum...somehow,lol.

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post #43889 of 44592 Old 07-16-2019, 02:16 PM
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Thanks for the tip, to paraphrase sensei Keanu....” I know attachments”
Yeah
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post #43890 of 44592 Old 07-16-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
If you don't have the current software you might not have the same thing I am seeing. I would then use Taptatalk...
I am on software 12.3.1

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