Dynaudio Owner's Thread - Page 970 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29071 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto J View Post
No, that is certainly NOT true. As someone else mentioned, of course we do not develop a completely new driver from the ground up for every model, that would be ridiculous. But because we do manufacture every driver from the ground up, we can fairly easily change every aspect of a driver to match the needs of each specific model. In some cases it is not necessary, for instance, often (but not always) the tweeter is the same for all models in a particular lineup, but with different woofers. Some of these differences do affect the cost quite a bit, which is why we do not use Confidence level drivers in the Emit series. To be fair, that was not what the person in the link was trying to say, although his statements about our drivers being the same throughout the lower ranges is also not true. Are they similar? Of course.

We do take pride in the fact that we have some technologies that are similar or even identical throughout our lineup. We do not like using more expensive materials for the sake of making a more expensive speaker, if we do not like the acoustic properties. Vice-versa, we do not like to intentionally make our lower range drivers look worse, to "excuse" the price difference to the higher-end models. Whether you like to call it trickle-down or not, our woofers and tweeters all look very similar, from the Emit to the Evidence. Why this would be an argument AGAINST our lower-range models, is beyond me.

One reason why people may find it difficult to find precise information on what the actual differences betwee two drivers are, could be that as a low-level manufacturer and developer we have a lot of intellectual property that we want to protect. We may not want outsiders to know which changes makes the most difference in the performance, or exactly what those differences are.

All this is not taking into account the fact that designing and tuning the crossovers in our speakers is very time consuming - to the point that it is very similar to actually doing it from the ground up in every speaker. Getting 90% of the way is 10% of the time spent, so whether we actually work from an off-the-shelf filter or start from scratch, is not really what matters, cost-wise. But as it has at least as much impact on the resulting sound quality, it has to be done. I have witnessed first-hand how a seemingly small change in a driver to achieve a specific wanted improvement, starts a chain reaction causing countless engineering hours to be spent adjusting the crossover to make sure that the change does not hurt the balance of the finished speaker. So even in cases where you could argue that the drivers are very similar if not the same, the sound quality achieved can be quite different.


The above is mainly relevant for comparing different lower-range models. The Confidence drivers are much, much better, with very significant differences internally, even though that may not be obvious looking at the speaker from the outside.
Otto,

Thank you for setting the record straight! Your explanation makes perfect sense to me.

I can imagine that KEF does similar things with the common design Uni-Q driver, tweaking little things in its design to mitigate the impact of cost saving changes in the crossover, cabinet construction, porting and all the other factors which make up a speaker delivered in a given size, price range and target market. In fact all makers have to do this, it seems, though those who make their own drivers and tweeters have more tools to work with.

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post #29072 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
He never, comes close to saying that:

Yeah I know the Confidence is not their low end; I still have a pair of C1 MK2s.

I said I was leery of their lower and mid end models--referring to Focus and Xeos--as I've heard they are essentially all using their entry level drivers with better decor and a higher price tag.

He's saying...not I...that he's heard, lower-to mid models; Excite, Xeo, Focus...use (relatively) the same drivers, and the price difference is for better cabinets.

That's what I get; and I can't say, I find it impossible.
It's kind of irrelevant to me. Referring to Otto's post, it's more relative to me how Dynaudio tunes/voices/adjusts the xover of a particular product or series to achieve their goal of supplying a speaker or speakers to fulfill a niche in their lineup. My ears much preferred Focus 160 over Contour S1.4. My ears found some aspects of Focus 160 to best Confidence C1 IIS, while some aspects of the Confidence I preferred over Focus. In the end, the Focus offered the balance of sound I was looking for in a stand-mount at the time.

What exterior differences were there between the Excite and Focus lines in 2013? A lot were obvious to me: tweeter, woofer, cabinet. All a massive upgrade for the (little) $1300 difference between X16 and Focus 160. What about that comparison in 2015? Besides tweeter and cabinet, the X14/X18 certainly closed the gap with a speaker being discontinued. In 2016, the comparison is no longer possible. How much difference is there between X34 (2016) and Focus 260 (2015)? Probably not much in terms of components but the sum of these do enough to tell my ears which is better

As for Focus (2013) vs. Contour LE (2016)? I'd be curious to compare Focus 160 vs. S1.4LE and 260 vs. S3.4LE. The exterior cabinet improvements of the Contour LE are obvious. I'm sure the Contour also benefits from a massively better xover. As for tweeter and drivers, I have the feeling the Contour LE and Focus 260 may not be too dissimilar. Confidence, on the other hands, builds off of the Contour in every way, just starting with the Esotar2 tweeter, better drivers all around, better cabinet, and better xover. Though I bet the Confidence Platinum xover is not too different (supplier, design, quality only) from Contour LE.

In summary, I disagree completely with the OP in the other forum but just how Dynaudio mixes legacy/new/off-the-shelf ingredients to make a new recipe is magic only known to them. I can only hope that to price of these ingredients, along with the associated labor and development costs, are appropriately conveyed to the customer via MSRP.
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post #29073 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 06:11 AM
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I have OWNED the excite 12,focus 160,focus 210c ,confidence c1 mk11,confidence center,xd 600...i have HEARD the focus 260,focus 340 and xd 200.I agree with GT,they all have a different sound,and i also leaned more towards the focus sound than the confidence,it was too laid back for me...and too hard to drive properly.I have now settled on the xd 600's,which tick all the boxes for me...wonderful speaker
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post #29074 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 08:14 AM
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And just again...for the record. And look...I don't know that guy; hell...I don't even post at AH.

But...it's there for EVERYONE to read; and he NEVER suggests, Confidence has the same drivers as Excite

You guys, are...coming off a little defensive (as you twist his words).

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post #29075 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 08:46 AM
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Hi all,


Just want to update the situation as someone may also consider a setup similar to mine. After some demo at home I pulled the trigger and kept the Naim 5si for my 1.4s. I would need more time to draw a conclusion of this setup, but until now it works to some extent. In particular the combo works fine until the volume level reaches 10 hrs position, after that things get a bit (very, very mildly) shouty but still fine for me.


Some of my observations to Aschen and others who were discussing the "Crown experiment": My impression until now (and also the main reason why I chose to keep the Naim and return the Crown) is that the Naim presents everything in a delicate, non-intruding way, as opposed to the straightforward and "impressing" way of the Crown. Now I do not state that which provides the more faithful reproduction of signal. Although I like the Naim sound, I suspect there may be some "voicing" done for it to sound that way. All I know is that I prefer the Naim, BUT the Crown came really close at just 20-25% of the price. The other reason is the Crown did not pull off very low frequency as weight-y and convincing as Naim.
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post #29076 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 08:55 AM
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Every company uses trickle down tech! Think about how KEF brags that the technology from The Blade Uni-Q is in all of their new speakers at some level. Dynaudios new thinner lighter precision coating is now on all their tweeters. I was told how the focus v2 used contour level drivers, changed to suit the new focus and make them more responsive to the input signal (ala the excite lines development-trickle up this time) and the tweeter was what was described as a baby esotar2 or an esotar1 tweeter but was being marketed as an esotec+ or esotec2 because of the fear sales would be pulled away from their higher lines. I was also told that the crossover was close to what the S25s used but with slightly lesser expensive parts.

If you ask me these are good things not bad. IMO
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post #29077 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
Every company uses trickle down tech! Think about how KEF brags that the technology from The Blade Uni-Q is in all of their new speakers at some level. Dynaudios new thinner lighter precision coating is now on all their tweeters. I was told how the focus v2 used contour level drivers, changed to suit the new focus and make them more responsive to the input signal (ala the excite lines development-trickle up this time) and the tweeter was what was described as a baby esotar2 or an esotar1 tweeter but was being marketed as an esotec+ or esotec2 because of the fear sales would be pulled away from their higher lines. I was also told that the crossover was close to what the S25s used but with slightly lesser expensive parts.

If you ask me these are good things not bad. IMO
Yeah; those are ALL good points, well made...and I agree with all of that. But c'mon guys; are you Dyn owners or not?

You must know, there's a faction...that finds them over-priced. I mean DIY and ID guys, always praise Salk, and the like; for putting all the money into the drivers...and not just fancy cabinets. OTOH...I know of speakers, that are nothing but; $200 in off-the-shelf drivers, and $5,000 worth...of fancy cabinet.

I just didn't see this guy, trashing Dyn. He had Confidence...wants to down-size; is keeping a pair of C1s. And just said, he's "heard" that maybe Dyn's lower-end; is not that different sounding, and the difference in price is better cabinets as you go up the line.

I've heard worse.

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post #29078 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 10:51 AM
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X14A vs. Xeo2 for near-field PC desktop use?
That's a toss up, but I tried the Xeo2 for PC setup and I just thought they where too good, so I put them in my office setup behind me... That way I freed up a Int. Amp that I will use in another room! Right now I am just using a pair of Gallo Nucleus speakers with a Sub and a Teac DSD little Int. Amp.. If I want to critically listen, I just turn my chair around! Only thing I don't like about the Xeo 2 is the finish it's almost like a rubber material, not bad but the X14A win out their, and I believe the X14A are slightly bigger. I know CD has a pair of non powered pair of X14 for sale and if I didn't go the Xeo 2 route I would snatched his pair up..


CD: Otto does a pretty good job of explaining it... End of story!

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post #29079 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 11:02 AM
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I know CD has a pair of non powered pair of X14 for sale.
Not anymore

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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
CD: Otto does a pretty good job of explaining it...
Last time I checked...that was kind of his vocation

GTa...this may sound silly; as they're certainly not in the "league" of X14As or XEO2s.

But you know, I've had my fair share...of decent kit; and at my desk...in the near-field. I find these little Mackie CR-3s (on IsoAcoustics stands) http://mackie.com/products/cr-series to sound pretty damn good, for ~$100.

Need to spend more? There's the CR-4, and the HR http://mackie.com/products/hrmk2-series and MR series http://mackie.com/products/mrmk3-series

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post #29080 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
Not anymore



Last time I checked...that was kind of his vocation

GTa...this may sound silly; as they're certainly not in the "league" of X14As or XEO2s.

But you know, I've had my fair share...of decent kit; and at my desk...in the near-field. I find these little Mackie CR-3s (on IsoAcoustics stands) http://mackie.com/products/cr-series to sound pretty damn good, for ~$100.

Need to spend more? There's the CR-4, and the HR http://mackie.com/products/hrmk2-series and MR series http://mackie.com/products/mrmk3-series
CD: True, but that makes him more of an expert on Dynaudio speakers and their history, doesn't it!
For the Money the Mackie are very nice! Glad you sold the X14's after more reviews came out on them and the X14 & X14A I am not surprised you sold them.

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post #29081 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
Yeah; those are ALL good points, well made...and I agree with all of that. But c'mon guys; are you Dyn owners or not?

You must know, there's a faction...that finds them over-priced. I mean DIY and ID guys, always praise Salk, and the like; for putting all the money into the drivers...and not just fancy cabinets. OTOH...I know of speakers, that are nothing but; $200 in off-the-shelf drivers, and $5,000 worth...of fancy cabinet.

I just didn't see this guy, trashing Dyn. He had Confidence...wants to down-size; is keeping a pair of C1s. And just said, he's "heard" that maybe Dyn's lower-end; is not that different sounding, and the difference in price is better cabinets as you go up the line.

I've heard worse.
Look I do agree with you, I think he just wanted to downgrade and he felt dyns value wasn't in the lower lines... That fine with me! Not everyone needs to like dyns high or low end! I do think any speaker that's $5k and above is overpriced! Part of the reason I won't "upgrade" anytime soon.

If I was crafty enough to build my own speakers and make them sound good, I'm sure I would and saved $2500! But I can't build a dog house! Literally I cannot! So I just have to deal with paying what I feel I want to own that sounds he way I like.

If the salk and ascend people weren't so annoying I'd probably have tried that route before the 260s, but I just could bare to be in the overzealous crowd. Lol

I had a friend that owned the Focus 110s and the Ascend Sierra (1) and preferred the 110s but said they were close. I have heard the Salk Exotica 3 and felt it wasn't worth $13k, $7-8k ok but not $13k! The highs and mids were good, bass was good, but they didn't come together and sound balanced and cohesive. I still want to find time to go to San Diego and hear the Ascends Towers w RAAL and I still want to hear the Supercharged SongTowers. Hopefully at the show this year.

However it's pointless to sell the 260s for just enough to buy those 2 speakers anyways so I'm just gonna live with what I have now.
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post #29082 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 01:55 PM
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Who cares what anybody thinks. What matters is what you like and expect for what's within your budget. Doesn't matter if it's an amp - speakers - source or even cables.
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post #29083 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 02:07 PM
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I don't know of anywhere local that has C4's to audition. For power I'm looking at either a new pair of Parasound JC-1's or a pre-owned pair of either Bryston 7BSST-2's or 28B SST-2's. Any of you guys have experience with these amps?
I was running my c4s off a bryston integrated which is basically a 3bsst. I think they worked great together. Eventually I will get either a pair of 7Bs, or a 14B which is basically the same thing, or maybe a lowly 4B which is actually enough IMHO. 28B is a bit overkill I think.

If you are ever in Houston you can play with my C4s if you are still looking for an audition
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post #29084 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 02:20 PM
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Hi all,


Just want to update the situation as someone may also consider a setup similar to mine. After some demo at home I pulled the trigger and kept the Naim 5si for my 1.4s. I would need more time to draw a conclusion of this setup, but until now it works to some extent. In particular the combo works fine until the volume level reaches 10 hrs position, after that things get a bit (very, very mildly) shouty but still fine for me.


Some of my observations to Aschen and others who were discussing the "Crown experiment": My impression until now (and also the main reason why I chose to keep the Naim and return the Crown) is that the Naim presents everything in a delicate, non-intruding way, as opposed to the straightforward and "impressing" way of the Crown. Now I do not state that which provides the more faithful reproduction of signal. Although I like the Naim sound, I suspect there may be some "voicing" done for it to sound that way. All I know is that I prefer the Naim, BUT the Crown came really close at just 20-25% of the price. The other reason is the Crown did not pull off very low frequency as weight-y and convincing as Naim.
I'm glad you brought up my "experiment" again, because I think I have solved the only negative comment I had about the crown. It was a bit noisier than I'd like.

However I recently picked up a 90s audio research pre with balanced outputs and now it is dead nutz quiet.

Also I had a bit too much burbon the other night with my brother and got brave enough to turn the volume to the proverbial 11, holy crap the combo of c4s and Walmart amp can play loud and keep composure

I'm not sure what the other discussion is about but as a longtime owner of lower dynaudios and a short time owner of higher ones I agree you get a good bit of the sound quality in the cheaper models.

I could have lived with my contours another 20years withbno complaints. They don't disappear quite as well or have the dynamics of their big Bros but they are great speakers
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post #29085 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 03:16 PM
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Hi all,


Just want to update the situation as someone may also consider a setup similar to mine. After some demo at home I pulled the trigger and kept the Naim 5si for my 1.4s. I would need more time to draw a conclusion of this setup, but until now it works to some extent. In particular the combo works fine until the volume level reaches 10 hrs position, after that things get a bit (very, very mildly) shouty but still fine for me.


Some of my observations to Aschen and others who were discussing the "Crown experiment": My impression until now (and also the main reason why I chose to keep the Naim and return the Crown) is that the Naim presents everything in a delicate, non-intruding way, as opposed to the straightforward and "impressing" way of the Crown. Now I do not state that which provides the more faithful reproduction of signal. Although I like the Naim sound, I suspect there may be some "voicing" done for it to sound that way. All I know is that I prefer the Naim, BUT the Crown came really close at just 20-25% of the price. The other reason is the Crown did not pull off very low frequency as weight-y and convincing as Naim.
Naim is known for their weighty low-end. The 5i/5si is a decent unit but I noticed even with the 160s they could sound shouty; the XS/XS2 you will enjoy much more. The XS stays composed and sounds a little warmer, musical.

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post #29086 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 07:27 PM
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MSRP vs. Street Price

Hello.

After all the good press, I'm considering a pair of Xeo 2's. I would like to go to a local hifi shop (Washington D.C. area) and listen and if I enjoy would prefer to buy from a brick & mortar spot than online. What I'm trying to get a handle on (and haven't been able to find from google or AVS searches) is whether the Dynaudio MSRP is the price I should expect to pay or whether when buying from a hifi shop I should expect to be able to receive a discount from MSRP. I know it may depend on the particular hifi shop, but some brands are more likely to be discounted whereas for others the prie is the price. I don't want to be rude at the hifi shop but also don't want to pay substantially more than I have to.

If I should attempt to negotiate a discount, is there a particular percent that is normal? All of this is assuming a new model and not a demo or used set--while I'd be happy to grab up something used, I expect it will be a while until Xeo 2's start popping up on Audiogon.

tl;dr, did you pay full MSRP for your speakers or did you negotiate for a lower price with your dynaudio authorized retailer? If it was lower, about what percent discount should I anticipate?

Thanks!
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post #29087 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 08:37 PM
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PROBLEMS WITH DYNAUDIO FOCUS 160's

I just received my Focus 160's a couple of weeks ago. They sound awesome with no complaints. Unfortunately someone little decided that they wanted to see what it was like to stick their finger in a certain hole (tweeter hole). Lol!! When I showed the pic to dedicated audio (where I bought them) they told me to gently suck it out and it should be fine. When I was done sucking out the tweeter it turned black inside which was determined later to be internal damage. I ordered a replacement from Denmark and it's on its way. The gentleman I got them from said I could still listen to them until the new replacement came in. That was last night and it sounded fine. Tonight I came home and turned on the amp and the speaker with the bad tweeter was humming super loud and it's mid range cone appeared to be working really hard so I immediately turned it off. The weird thing is that it was only the damaged speaker that was flipping out, no sound at all was coming out of the good one.

OK, this needs to be reiterated NOTHING at all has changed since last night. I was enjoying playing records at a decent level all night long but when I came home tonight... well you know.

At this point I'm very concerned hope you could help.
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post #29088 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by duskdrums View Post
Hello.

After all the good press, I'm considering a pair of Xeo 2's. I would like to go to a local hifi shop (Washington D.C. area) and listen and if I enjoy would prefer to buy from a brick & mortar spot than online. What I'm trying to get a handle on (and haven't been able to find from google or AVS searches) is whether the Dynaudio MSRP is the price I should expect to pay or whether when buying from a hifi shop I should expect to be able to receive a discount from MSRP. I know it may depend on the particular hifi shop, but some brands are more likely to be discounted whereas for others the prie is the price. I don't want to be rude at the hifi shop but also don't want to pay substantially more than I have to.

If I should attempt to negotiate a discount, is there a particular percent that is normal? All of this is assuming a new model and not a demo or used set--while I'd be happy to grab up something used, I expect it will be a while until Xeo 2's start popping up on Audiogon.

tl;dr, did you pay full MSRP for your speakers or did you negotiate for a lower price with your dynaudio authorized retailer? If it was lower, about what percent discount should I anticipate?

Thanks!
I REFUSE to pay retail for any major purchase, I didn't purchase locally because they wouldn't budge off MSRP. They lost out. I was in this industry many years ago and I know what the markups are, if they aren't willing to give me a deal I'll just take my business elsewhere. CD sums it up perfectly below...

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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
Listen...I got no problem, with the business model (well...I do actually; but until the industry changes, I have no issue...with any particular dealer, conducting pricing with BIG markups). But I'm pretty up front with those guys...like I am, when I go to buy a new car.

I say...some little, old lady...or rich, old man; is going to walk in here, and pay sticker price. You're going to make thousands...off of them! That's going to have to subsidize, the few hundred...that you're only going to make off me
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post #29089 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by poker11788 View Post
I just received my Focus 160's a couple of weeks ago. They sound awesome with no complaints. Unfortunately someone little decided that they wanted to see what it was like to stick their finger in a certain hole (tweeter hole). Lol!! When I showed the pic to dedicated audio (where I bought them) they told me to gently suck it out and it should be fine. When I was done sucking out the tweeter it turned black inside which was determined later to be internal damage. I ordered a replacement from Denmark and it's on its way. The gentleman I got them from said I could still listen to them until the new replacement came in. That was last night and it sounded fine. Tonight I came home and turned on the amp and the speaker with the bad tweeter was humming super loud and it's mid range cone appeared to be working really hard so I immediately turned it off. The weird thing is that it was only the damaged speaker that was flipping out, no sound at all was coming out of the good one.

OK, this needs to be reiterated NOTHING at all has changed since last night. I was enjoying playing records at a decent level all night long but when I came home tonight... well you know.

At this point I'm very concerned hope you could help.
How hard did you suck on it? (I literally broke out laughing out loud after typing that) One of my tweeters came that way, I did a light puff on the tweeter like you would a cigar and it popped right out and has been working perfectly ever since. I don't know how what you did could have caused what you experienced.

Since you have to remove the tweeter anyway I'd pull it out and just unplug it, reinstall and see if that fixes the issue.
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post #29090 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post
It's kind of irrelevant to me. Referring to Otto's post, it's more relative to me how Dynaudio tunes/voices/adjusts the xover of a particular product or series to achieve their goal of supplying a speaker or speakers to fulfill a niche in their lineup. My ears much preferred Focus 160 over Contour S1.4. My ears found some aspects of Focus 160 to best Confidence C1 IIS, while some aspects of the Confidence I preferred over Focus. In the end, the Focus offered the balance of sound I was looking for in a stand-mount at the time.

What exterior differences were there between the Excite and Focus lines in 2013? A lot were obvious to me: tweeter, woofer, cabinet. All a massive upgrade for the (little) $1300 difference between X16 and Focus 160. What about that comparison in 2015? Besides tweeter and cabinet, the X14/X18 certainly closed the gap with a speaker being discontinued. In 2016, the comparison is no longer possible. How much difference is there between X34 (2016) and Focus 260 (2015)? Probably not much in terms of components but the sum of these do enough to tell my ears which is better

As for Focus (2013) vs. Contour LE (2016)? I'd be curious to compare Focus 160 vs. S1.4LE and 260 vs. S3.4LE. The exterior cabinet improvements of the Contour LE are obvious. I'm sure the Contour also benefits from a massively better xover. As for tweeter and drivers, I have the feeling the Contour LE and Focus 260 may not be too dissimilar. Confidence, on the other hands, builds off of the Contour in every way, just starting with the Esotar2 tweeter, better drivers all around, better cabinet, and better xover. Though I bet the Confidence Platinum xover is not too different (supplier, design, quality only) from Contour LE.

In summary, I disagree completely with the OP in the other forum but just how Dynaudio mixes legacy/new/off-the-shelf ingredients to make a new recipe is magic only known to them. I can only hope that to price of these ingredients, along with the associated labor and development costs, are appropriately conveyed to the customer via MSRP.
I do hope my expectations are right about the 3.4 LE as I saw a picture of the x-over which I posted a few pages up, The quality of the Capacitor they used is outstanding, Mudorf caps are know to offer amazing performance and I am sure they tuned them really well and if they sound similar to the 260 but better, I will be in for a treat.. 5 Weeks until delivery and really starting to get anxious

Also indeed since I listen to the Emit I was shocked to hear and outstanding monitor for the money in the Emit 20.

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post #29091 of 44000 Old 04-30-2016, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
Look I do agree with you, I think he just wanted to downgrade and he felt dyns value wasn't in the lower lines... That fine with me! Not everyone needs to like dyns high or low end! I do think any speaker that's $5k and above is overpriced! Part of the reason I won't "upgrade" anytime soon.

If I was crafty enough to build my own speakers and make them sound good, I'm sure I would and saved $2500! But I can't build a dog house! Literally I cannot! So I just have to deal with paying what I feel I want to own that sounds he way I like.

If the salk and ascend people weren't so annoying I'd probably have tried that route before the 260s, but I just could bare to be in the overzealous crowd. Lol

I had a friend that owned the Focus 110s and the Ascend Sierra (1) and preferred the 110s but said they were close. I have heard the Salk Exotica 3 and felt it wasn't worth $13k, $7-8k ok but not $13k! The highs and mids were good, bass was good, but they didn't come together and sound balanced and cohesive. I still want to find time to go to San Diego and hear the Ascends Towers w RAAL and I still want to hear the Supercharged SongTowers. Hopefully at the show this year.

However it's pointless to sell the 260s for just enough to buy those 2 speakers anyways so I'm just gonna live with what I have now
.
Steve you are very well covered with the 260s plus I do believe you have one of the best pairings for them with you Naim gear .

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Naim is known for their weighty low-end. The 5i/5si is a decent unit but I noticed even with the 160s they could sound shouty; the XS/XS2 you will enjoy much more. The XS stays composed and sounds a little warmer, musical.
Earlier I listened to a combo of Focus 160 and Plinius Hautonga, the amp is very capable in terms of the specs and recommended for Dyns, but they sounded shouty also and really bright. That was very weird and I think it's about the amp's sound.

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Originally Posted by aschen View Post
I'm glad you brought up my "experiment" again, because I think I have solved the only negative comment I had about the crown. It was a bit noisier than I'd like.

However I recently picked up a 90s audio research pre with balanced outputs and now it is dead nutz quiet.

Also I had a bit too much burbon the other night with my brother and got brave enough to turn the volume to the proverbial 11, holy crap the combo of c4s and Walmart amp can play loud and keep composure
If I have a bigger system and room in the future I will still want a chance to try Crown amps. Its ability to excite & go loud at real-life volume is very special and entertaining.
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post #29093 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by poker11788 View Post
I just received my Focus 160's a couple of weeks ago. They sound awesome with no complaints. Unfortunately someone little decided that they wanted to see what it was like to stick their finger in a certain hole (tweeter hole). Lol!! When I showed the pic to dedicated audio (where I bought them) they told me to gently suck it out and it should be fine. When I was done sucking out the tweeter it turned black inside which was determined later to be internal damage. I ordered a replacement from Denmark and it's on its way. The gentleman I got them from said I could still listen to them until the new replacement came in. That was last night and it sounded fine. Tonight I came home and turned on the amp and the speaker with the bad tweeter was humming super loud and it's mid range cone appeared to be working really hard so I immediately turned it off. The weird thing is that it was only the damaged speaker that was flipping out, no sound at all was coming out of the good one.

OK, this needs to be reiterated NOTHING at all has changed since last night. I was enjoying playing records at a decent level all night long but when I came home tonight... well you know.

At this point I'm very concerned hope you could help.
Wow to me that doesn't make any sense. After all The 160's are passive speakers. Sounds more like an amp or pre problem. Was the volume turned all the down when you powered it up? Do you have a ohm meter? If you do I would disconnect the speaker cables measure and compare reading between the 2 speakers. If they measure the same I would swap the right and left speaker cable at the amp end and try it again just to verify it is the speaker (of course turn the volume down). If the damaged speaker reads less than the good one I would not hook it back up for fear it could damage the amp.

Sorry to hear about that and good luck

Maybe Otto will chime in of what to expect IF the tweeter had a dead short.
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post #29094 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by poker11788 View Post
I just received my Focus 160's a couple of weeks ago. They sound awesome with no complaints. Unfortunately someone little decided that they wanted to see what it was like to stick their finger in a certain hole (tweeter hole). Lol!! When I showed the pic to dedicated audio (where I bought them) they told me to gently suck it out and it should be fine. When I was done sucking out the tweeter it turned black inside which was determined later to be internal damage. I ordered a replacement from Denmark and it's on its way. The gentleman I got them from said I could still listen to them until the new replacement came in. That was last night and it sounded fine. Tonight I came home and turned on the amp and the speaker with the bad tweeter was humming super loud and it's mid range cone appeared to be working really hard so I immediately turned it off. The weird thing is that it was only the damaged speaker that was flipping out, no sound at all was coming out of the good one.

OK, this needs to be reiterated NOTHING at all has changed since last night. I was enjoying playing records at a decent level all night long but when I came home tonight... well you know.

At this point I'm very concerned hope you could help.
I have read countless stories of dented Dyn tweeters and in all cases the "suck job" method does fix it without any impact on SQ. Heck even the dented tweeter should not impact SQ. I think I read of a guy putting a toilet paper tube over the tweeter and then sucking through it so as to give his mouth a little more distance from the hardware...

It may depend on how far into the hole your the "someone little" tried to stick their finger. Perhaps asking your dealer for tweeter guards would be a good idea? IMO Dyn should ship these as standard in-box accessories.

If the other speaker is not buzzing, try putting the dented speaker on that cable and see if it continues. Put the good speaker on the buzzing cable and see what happens. This may indicate if it is a speaker or amp issue. Perhaps check and tighten all cables.

Current HiFi: Dynaudio Focus 260 | Schiit Modi2 Multibit (Black) | NAIM SuperNait 2
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post #29095 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by duskdrums View Post
Hello.

After all the good press, I'm considering a pair of Xeo 2's. I would like to go to a local hifi shop (Washington D.C. area) and listen and if I enjoy would prefer to buy from a brick & mortar spot than online. What I'm trying to get a handle on (and haven't been able to find from google or AVS searches) is whether the Dynaudio MSRP is the price I should expect to pay or whether when buying from a hifi shop I should expect to be able to receive a discount from MSRP. I know it may depend on the particular hifi shop, but some brands are more likely to be discounted whereas for others the prie is the price. I don't want to be rude at the hifi shop but also don't want to pay substantially more than I have to.

If I should attempt to negotiate a discount, is there a particular percent that is normal? All of this is assuming a new model and not a demo or used set--while I'd be happy to grab up something used, I expect it will be a while until Xeo 2's start popping up on Audiogon.

tl;dr, did you pay full MSRP for your speakers or did you negotiate for a lower price with your dynaudio authorized retailer? If it was lower, about what percent discount should I anticipate?

Thanks!
I paid full MSRP for my X16 and for every speaker since. The difference being that every 12 months or so my dealer would value my slightly used speaker at 100% towards trade-in: X16 > Focus 160 > Focus 260. Knowing what I know, I should haggle more I would say 10% off to sweeten the deal is appropriate. Just be careful if you then turn around and buy a $1K USB cable, etc.

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post #29096 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
CD: True, but that makes him more of an expert on Dynaudio speakers and their history, doesn't it!
For the Money the Mackie are very nice! Glad you sold the X14's after more reviews came out on them and the X14 & X14A I am not surprised you sold them.
I think I'm confused by your post. Is it meant to be praise for the X14/A? More positive reviews > more demand > easier to sell used pair?

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post #29097 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 05:20 AM
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That's a toss up, but I tried the Xeo2 for PC setup and I just thought they where too good, so I put them in my office setup behind me... That way I freed up a Int. Amp that I will use in another room! Right now I am just using a pair of Gallo Nucleus speakers with a Sub and a Teac DSD little Int. Amp.. If I want to critically listen, I just turn my chair around! Only thing I don't like about the Xeo 2 is the finish it's almost like a rubber material, not bad but the X14A win out their, and I believe the X14A are slightly bigger. I know CD has a pair of non powered pair of X14 for sale and if I didn't go the Xeo 2 route I would snatched his pair up..


CD: Otto does a pretty good job of explaining it... End of story!
Interesting comparison...

X14A
Tweeter: 27mm soft dome
Woofer: 14cm MSP
45 Hz - 23 KHz
50w x 2 (to ea. tweeter/woofer)
6.5kg/14.3 lbs.
6.7x11.1x10.3" (WxHxD)
MSRP: $2000 USD (sale price: $1600 USD)

Xeo2
Tweeter: 27mm soft dome
Woofer: 14cm MSP
40 Hz - 24 KHz
65w x 2 (to ea. tweeter/woofer)
4.0kg/8.8 lbs.
6.8x10.0x6.1" (WxHxD)
MSRP: $1600 USD

Current HiFi: Dynaudio Focus 260 | Schiit Modi2 Multibit (Black) | NAIM SuperNait 2
Cables: Chord Cobra VEE3 RCA>DIN | Tellurium Q Black 3M

Past HiFi: Dynaudio Excite X16 | Dynaudio Focus 160 | Harman Kardon HK3490 | NAIM XS2 (70w)
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post #29098 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 06:33 AM
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Looking at the Discontinued Products page on the Dynaudio website, I see that the second generation of Focus speakers is referred to as Focus 300... Did anyone know this? New to me!

Current HiFi: Dynaudio Focus 260 | Schiit Modi2 Multibit (Black) | NAIM SuperNait 2
Cables: Chord Cobra VEE3 RCA>DIN | Tellurium Q Black 3M

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post #29099 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by roland150 View Post
Hi all,


Just want to update the situation as someone may also consider a setup similar to mine. After some demo at home I pulled the trigger and kept the Naim 5si for my 1.4s. I would need more time to draw a conclusion of this setup, but until now it works to some extent. In particular the combo works fine until the volume level reaches 10 hrs position, after that things get a bit (very, very mildly) shouty but still fine for me.


Some of my observations to Aschen and others who were discussing the "Crown experiment": My impression until now (and also the main reason why I chose to keep the Naim and return the Crown) is that the Naim presents everything in a delicate, non-intruding way, as opposed to the straightforward and "impressing" way of the Crown. Now I do not state that which provides the more faithful reproduction of signal. Although I like the Naim sound, I suspect there may be some "voicing" done for it to sound that way. All I know is that I prefer the Naim, BUT the Crown came really close at just 20-25% of the price. The other reason is the Crown did not pull off very low frequency as weight-y and convincing as Naim.
When i owned my c1mk11's,i tried them with my supernait 2,at low volume they were ok,but like you said,the minute i went past 10 o'clock on the volume,things started to sound a little off...and only got worse,the more i turned it up.My conclusion was that they need MORE power,a lot more,so i traded them in on the xd 600's.To me you are WAY under powered with the 5i...the contour is a similar load i would think,to the c1's and you would need a nap 250 or 300 to see their FULL potential,the contour and confidence moniters are the toughest to drive of all the dyn lineup IMO.You said it yourself that you like what the crown amp did for the speaker(more power),unfortunately moving up the Naim ladder is VERY expensive,right now i have a nap 250 dr at home for a demo,and it brought the excite 12's up to a level that i did not think possible,i am a believer that you can never have TOO MUCH good,quality power for dynaudio
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post #29100 of 44000 Old 05-01-2016, 08:23 AM
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no quarter is right about Dyns wanting more power to sing.

Another option to consider would be 2x Teddy Pardo MB100 monoblocks fed by his PR1 pre or TeddyDAC-VC.

Current HiFi: Dynaudio Focus 260 | Schiit Modi2 Multibit (Black) | NAIM SuperNait 2
Cables: Chord Cobra VEE3 RCA>DIN | Tellurium Q Black 3M

Past HiFi: Dynaudio Excite X16 | Dynaudio Focus 160 | Harman Kardon HK3490 | NAIM XS2 (70w)
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