Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread - Page 263 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7861 of 7902 Old 12-08-2019, 11:26 PM
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Greetings! I just got a pair of Focal Aria 936 floor standing speakers. Everything is fine, except that I am really bothered by the lack of low end bass. For music, it doesn't bother me that much, but for TV/home theater use, it does almost feel like something is wrong.

Edit: just read the manual, looks like I am still below the 20h min break-in period. Will let this break in more and report back. Hopefully the bass will be normal once the speaker breaks in. Thanks.
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Last edited by wildgoose; 12-11-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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post #7862 of 7902 Old 12-09-2019, 09:41 AM
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Is this after using an auto-EQ program to tune the speakers? Don’t be afraid to turn up the bass, the speakers can handle it. It could simply be the guys who dialed in the crossover on the Focals set the bass a little lower than your preference, but that doesn’t mean the speaker can’t do a lot more if you dial it in. People seem to be obsessed with leaving everything flat and it should just sound right. But they also are ok with auto-EQ problems, so I don’t get it. Feel free to adjust on your preamp side to increase the bass if you can.
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post #7863 of 7902 Old 12-09-2019, 05:13 PM
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the aria's arent an easy speaker to setup/position. I agree with turning up the bass and also spending the time/effort for positioning. my arias had 5 db peaks at 80hz and 40 hz so it does feel like its missing all the bass in between. but setup/rew/eq/dsp/subs all fix somewhat. my room/setup very challenging for bass at 20k cuft.


do your drivers move like this?



Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512

Last edited by torii; 12-09-2019 at 05:17 PM.
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post #7864 of 7902 Old 12-09-2019, 05:23 PM
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or this...

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #7865 of 7902 Old 12-11-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsdivine View Post
Is this after using an auto-EQ program to tune the speakers? Don’t be afraid to turn up the bass, the speakers can handle it. It could simply be the guys who dialed in the crossover on the Focals set the bass a little lower than your preference, but that doesn’t mean the speaker can’t do a lot more if you dial it in. People seem to be obsessed with leaving everything flat and it should just sound right. But they also are ok with auto-EQ problems, so I don’t get it. Feel free to adjust on your preamp side to increase the bass if you can.
This is straight pure-direct mode on my receiver.

When you say "the guys who dialed in the crossover..". You mean the focal designer, or the guy who tuned this specific speaker during manufacturing?
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post #7866 of 7902 Old 12-11-2019, 12:50 PM
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The designers and engineers, I doubt individual speakers are tuned. They are assembled.

You’re listening in direct mode, which means the receiver is passing the signal directly, no EQ tuning applied. Ideally, it would sound great like that, but there’s no guarantee your preference matches the engineers’.

Try this: turn it louder than your usual preference, like significantly louder. Focus on the bass, is it still lacking? Not in relation to the volume, but on its own, is it more like what you want? If so, you just need to tune a bit. Don’t be afraid of auto-EQ programs and tinkering. It could be your room, or it could be your ears. Either way, don’t be afraid to make it sound the way you want it to.
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post #7867 of 7902 Old 12-12-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsdivine View Post
The designers and engineers, I doubt individual speakers are tuned. They are assembled
Great that's what I thought. For a moment there I was worried that whoever 'tuned' my speaker didn't do as careful of a job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
the aria's arent an easy speaker to setup/position. I agree with turning up the bass and also spending the time/effort for positioning. my arias had 5 db peaks at 80hz and 40 hz so it does feel like its missing all the bass in between. but setup/rew/eq/dsp/subs all fix somewhat. my room/setup very challenging for bass at 20k cuft.

do your drivers move like this?
No it does not! FYI my room is 18ft x 14ft x 8ft. The speaker is about 7ft apart and on the long side of the room. Listening distance is about 10ft from the sofa.

Even if I turn up the volume pretty high, the bass cone does not show any visible movements. Though if I lightly touch it, I can clearly feel its movement. How loud are you playing for it to move like that? I hope it's because it needs more break-in, as this is already at what I consider relatively high level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsdivine View Post
Try this: turn it louder than your usual preference, like significantly louder. Focus on the bass, is it still lacking? Not in relation to the volume, but on its own, is it more like what you want? If so, you just need to tune a bit. Don’t be afraid of auto-EQ programs and tinkering. It could be your room, or it could be your ears. Either way, don’t be afraid to make it sound the way you want it to.
I tried listening at level slightly higher than what I did initially. There is more bass! Furthermore, sitting on the sofa, I can feel the most bass, as soon as I get off the sofa, and move forward (but not standing up), the bass dropped quite a bit.

If I turn the level down to what I normally prefer, bass definitely drops. It's interesting moving around the room yields such bass difference perceptions.

I think I can conclude that the speaker is not broken, it's just tuned slightly different from what I am use to, and needs more break-in. (It still probably have less than 10-hours on it). The #1 priority for me is to confirm it isn't defective, and do that before the return period ends. Fine tuning, placement, can wait a bit. I do like how the speaker sounds, especially the mid-range.
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post #7868 of 7902 Old 12-28-2019, 03:15 PM
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Hi Wildgoose,

Just wondering if perchance there could be any kind of stuffed furniture along the walls between
your listening position and your speakers as well as in front of your listening position and speakers also behind your speakers and wall behind speakers.

One other thought could it be that speaker wire are out of phase on speaker with the other?

Any of these could contribute to poor bass performance...

Hope this helps..

Speakers: Focal Aria 948
Preamps : Wyred4Sound STP SE Stage 2, McIntosh Mx110z, Emotiva XSP1 gen2
Power Amp: Parasound A21 Sources: Oppo 105, Oppo 205, Ah! 4000 upsampled cdp
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post #7869 of 7902 Old 01-04-2020, 04:35 PM
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Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread

Anyone know if Focal plans to make an Atmos speaker module for the Aria series speakers?

Haven’t seen anything on their website but it sure would be nice, otherwise I may have switch to KEF Q950s or Monitor.


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Anthem MRX-720, Oppo UDP-203, Bluesound Node 2i, Focal Aria 936/CC900
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post #7870 of 7902 Old 01-04-2020, 07:08 PM
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Focal Dome as on ceiling atmos speaker???? Did a search, didn't find much. I'm thinking of going this route for my ATMOS overheads. No option to install in ceiling. Have to go on the ceiling or on beams that run across the room. They are pricey, but look nice in white. Anyone do something similar??? thanks!
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post #7871 of 7902 Old 01-05-2020, 06:52 AM
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Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by galoot View Post
Focal Dome as on ceiling atmos speaker???? Did a search, didn't find much. I'm thinking of going this route for my ATMOS overheads. No option to install in ceiling. Have to go on the ceiling or on beams that run across the room. They are pricey, but look nice in white. Anyone do something similar??? thanks!

I was thinking the Dome Flax too since I prefer to not cut into walls unless I have too. Would be nice if Focal made an Atmos speaker module.

Another question, what happens if you install Focal flax in-ceiling speakers and decide to change your front (L/C/R) speakers to a different brand, say KEF, do you also have to change out your in-ceiling speakers?


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post #7872 of 7902 Old 01-05-2020, 03:50 PM
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if I ever did atmos, it would be dome flax or entirely new system....probably with some brand with at least one 15in driver in the l/r

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #7873 of 7902 Old 01-05-2020, 05:04 PM
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You don’t need the height speakers to be the same brand/line than the floor speakers
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Displays: LG 65C7V - Epson TW7000 - Panasonic 50PZ80
5.2.2: Focal Aria 948/CC900/906 - 2x BK XLS200 MK2 - B&W CCM362
Electronics: Marantz SR7013 - Emotiva A300 - Oppo 203 - PS4 Pro
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post #7874 of 7902 Old 01-06-2020, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckard71 View Post
You don’t need the height speakers to be the same brand/line than the floor speakers
Actually, that was my next question, I was leaning toward the Focal 300 ICW 4 in-ceiling speakers but prefer to not cut into my ceiling. What speaker modules would you consider that would blend well with Focal Aria 936s? I was looking at KEF Q50a add on Atmos module but unsure how the Uni-Q driver would blend with the Focals.

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post #7875 of 7902 Old 01-12-2020, 09:23 PM
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Focal - JM Lab Owner's Thread

I heard Shape 50 monitors I loved, which led me to another place where I heard Aria 906’s that I also loved.

On paper the monitor has lower bass, and more range on top.

If I can’t ever get both in the same room to listen, can someone here comment that has?
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post #7876 of 7902 Old 01-12-2020, 10:27 PM
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I throw measurements out the window as I am usually in favor of imaging/soundstage over measurements. however most speakers in same price bracket sound really similar so I say cant go wrong

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #7877 of 7902 Old 01-14-2020, 01:08 PM
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New Aria 948 vs Used Electra 1028 Be 2

Hey everyone, my room is about 4,000 cu. ft. (about 21x16 or so with a vaulted ceiling). My placement options are terrible: either put speakers near a corner or don't have speakers (one speaker would be inches from a sidewall with a large window and 2-3 feet from back wall and the other speaker would be 1-2 feet from back wall but away from the side wall).

Based on the volume of my room, I expect I need a large pair of speakers. I had Klipsch RP-8000f, but I experienced ear fatigue with them after an hour or two so I returned them (I didn't realize it then but I now know it's possible that my room may have contributed).

So, I have been agonizing over whether to go with brand new Focal Aria 948's (deeply discounted dark walnut finish, which some don't like, but I don't care as long as it sounds good), used Focal Electra 1028 Be 2's (can be found at same price as deeply discounted new 948's), or Tekton Double Impacts.

These will be used probably 70/30 HT and music, but I would like the sound quality for the 30% music to be very good and the bass for the 70% movies to be very good (so that I won't need to buy a subwoofer any time soon... my wife is making me write a contract that I will wait at least a year before another purchase for this system).

I see that the 1028's have somewhat lower bass response than the 948's and slightly higher sensitivity... which makes me think they could compete with the 948's to fill my space with sound. But the 948's have pretty large woofers (8.25" compared to the 6.5" of the 1028's). Of course the 1028's have the Beryllium tweeter, which get very good reviews (though I wonder if it makes the 1028's sound too analytical and less musical, but I have never heard them).

Is my best bet to go 948's new (with warranty) with the larger drivers for moving more air, or can the 1028's compete to fill the room?

Do the 1028's have significantly better bass?

Will one of these options work better in a corner? I notice the 948's have a forward-firing port whereas the 1028's have a rear-firing port. So many compromises and tradeoffs.

And one more thing, I purchased a Cambridge Audio Azur 851W, which can put 200 wpc into 8 ohms and 350 wpc into 4 ohms. When I bought it the seller said he didn't notice much difference between the Azur and a Parasound A21, and I have seen almost nothing but positive reviews for the A21. The Azur is well-reviewed, as well, but it's not as widely known, it seems.

Any guesses as to whether the Azur will pair well with either the 948 or 1028?
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post #7878 of 7902 Old 01-14-2020, 02:32 PM
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I have seen some new 948's for 3500 usd new w/5yr warranty....thats a real value. for music the 948's play 95% of music just fine w/out sub. for ht you need a sub no matter what as movies go down to 6-8 hz...no tower speaker I know of goes that low.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #7879 of 7902 Old 01-14-2020, 03:20 PM
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Thanks torii for the quick reply.

The 5% that the 948 can't do is, I am assuming, bass-heavy music like hip-hop? Anything else it struggles with in your experience?

How does it handle big orchestral music?

How does it sound at low volumes when powered with an external amp?

I don't expect a tower speaker to do what a sub can do, but I need it to be "good enough" to where I can get by without a sub for a year without feeling like I am missing huge amounts of sonic information.

I feel like the $3500 for a new 948 is a dang good value, as well. Any thoughts on that option versus a used 1028 at the same price point, particularly when it comes to room-filling sound, loudness, and bass (I know the treble and high midrange will be excellent on the 1028)?
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post #7880 of 7902 Old 01-14-2020, 03:32 PM
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If you experienced auditive fatigue with the Klipsch, maybe Focal is not a brand for you either. They are very detailed. I would look for some ribbon tweeter speakers, like monitor audio gold

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5.2.2: Focal Aria 948/CC900/906 - 2x BK XLS200 MK2 - B&W CCM362
Electronics: Marantz SR7013 - Emotiva A300 - Oppo 203 - PS4 Pro
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post #7881 of 7902 Old 01-14-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graitscott View Post
Thanks torii for the quick reply.

The 5% that the 948 can't do is, I am assuming, bass-heavy music like hip-hop? Anything else it struggles with in your experience?

How does it handle big orchestral music?

How does it sound at low volumes when powered with an external amp?

I don't expect a tower speaker to do what a sub can do, but I need it to be "good enough" to where I can get by without a sub for a year without feeling like I am missing huge amounts of sonic information.

I feel like the $3500 for a new 948 is a dang good value, as well. Any thoughts on that option versus a used 1028 at the same price point, particularly when it comes to room-filling sound, loudness, and bass (I know the treble and high midrange will be excellent on the 1028)?

the 948 sound is only lacking in classical and heavy/hard rock imo. but so are revel/bw/psb...etc...the 948 with my system of marantz/nad is not bright. i think its only lack is depth. I also could see some wanting more bass/tactile response but thats room/eq/dsp also.


this was my rew of 948's pure with mic 10-12 ft away in 20k cuft room.
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #7882 of 7902 Old 01-14-2020, 04:23 PM
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here are my maggie lrs pure...l/r and both speakers measured...kinda ugly but boy do they sound great. so frequency curves arent all that imo.
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #7883 of 7902 Old 01-15-2020, 07:39 AM
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Gents - I'm re-configuring my audio/video setup and would like to know how much breathing room on either side of my 936s do you feel is appropriate? I'm limited to a wall that is 105" wide and entertainment center that I'm thinking of purchasing is 41" wide, so that leaves 32" (105-41 = 64/2 = 32) on either side of the entertainment center for a small sub and my 936 speakers, which are 12" wide. So, I want to run dual subs that are in the 15" range which gives me 17" to place my 936s, which is basically 2-3" buffer around the speakers (between the sub and the wall). Do you feel this is enough space so the speaker doesn't sound boomy? How much room does the bottom port need?


@torii - I noticed that you're using Rythmik subs and I'm curious whether you have heard or know anything about the Rythmik L22 Dual 12" HT/Music sub? I would rather go with dual ported subs because I watch more movies than listen to music but because I'm limited in space, I will more than likely have to purchase a sealed sub. My other option is dual SVS SB-3000 sub.

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Anthem MRX-720, Oppo UDP-203, Bluesound Node 2i, Focal Aria 936/CC900
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post #7884 of 7902 Old 01-15-2020, 08:54 AM
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i think the focal recommendations in manual for setup works well. one of biggest improvements for me setup wise was moving tv off tv console and putting it on wall. huge improvement. in regards to rythmiks, i would ask on the owners thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...er-thread.html
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #7885 of 7902 Old 01-16-2020, 01:36 PM
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Focal 1028 Be II vs. 1038 Be II -- is the big price difference worth it to go 1038?

After going around and around researching mid size floor standing speakers of every imaginable brand for the last couple years, I'm really tempted, at current used prices, to pick up a set of 1028 Be2(I use the "2" because that is how they are advertised by both dealers and private sellers). I don't see how you can achieve better all around sound quality in a floor stander for ~$3500.

But I'd really love a set of 1038 Be2 because of the extra woofer and cabinet volume, but the asking prices are way, way higher than the 1028, with a difference between 1028 and 1038 of as much as $2,500 to $3,000. You can buy a whole bunch of other stuff with that price difference!

My questions are:


1. Why is there so much difference in price, considering that even the Focal specifications indicate the 1038 only digging 2 dB deeper in the bass?



2. Has anybody compared these two, and is there really enough noticeable difference in an average room to pony up for the 1038?

FAMILY ROOM--Legacy Signature II towers(Front L/R), PSB Image 5T towers(Surrounds), Polk LSiM706 center, Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, AR ES-1 turntable w/ Audioquest 404-B cartridge, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray Player, RCA HD-DVD player, Sony 75" 900E.
MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Onkyo TX-NR809, Oppo BDP-83 Universal Disc Player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.
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post #7886 of 7902 Old 01-16-2020, 02:04 PM
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i think the port design is different. meaning 1028 needs to be close to wall and smaller rooms vs 1038 pulled farther out into room and taller.


this guy might give insight on 1028



Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
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Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512

Last edited by torii; 01-16-2020 at 02:24 PM.
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post #7887 of 7902 Old 01-16-2020, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
After going around and around researching mid size floor standing speakers of every imaginable brand for the last couple years, I'm really tempted, at current used prices, to pick up a set of 1028 Be2(I use the "2" because that is how they are advertised by both dealers and private sellers). I don't see how you can achieve better all around sound quality in a floor stander for ~$3500.

But I'd really love a set of 1038 Be2 because of the extra woofer and cabinet volume, but the asking prices are way, way higher than the 1028, with a difference between 1028 and 1038 of as much as $2,500 to $3,000. You can buy a whole bunch of other stuff with that price difference!

My questions are:


1. Why is there so much difference in price, considering that even the Focal specifications indicate the 1038 only digging 2 dB deeper in the bass?



2. Has anybody compared these two, and is there really enough noticeable difference in an average room to pony up for the 1038?
If you intend to keep them for a long time or may be your last pair for a while, I recommend going with the 1038BE. I’ve heard the 1028BE, and own the 1038BE. No sub needed, gets plenty low. I also own 2 pairs of the 1008BE.
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post #7888 of 7902 Old 01-16-2020, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
i think the port design is different. meaning 1028 needs to be close to wall and smaller rooms vs 1038 pulled farther out into room and taller.


this guy might give insight on 1028


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8zqC3kqxo

Thanks! Yes, I found out that the porting is different. While both have "Front laminar port No noise, no distortion No dynamic compression", only the 1028 indicates "Powerflow back port Increased efficiency and impact Removable foam bungs for bass setting".


Now, in my family room system, I do not have the ability to move them out into the room, as doing so would block access to a doorway on one side. It appears to me that the 1028 may actually work better for quality bass in my room because they have to be placed fairly close to the front wall of the room. Without being able to pull the 1038s out into the room, I fear it might be a mistake to get them and risk ending up having to resell them if the bass doesn't work when they are close to the wall.



I did watch Thomas's video earlier today, and he was quite impressed with the 1028, saying it had the best bass he had ever heard. I'm a sucker for big floor standers, but I don't want to end up with worse sound quality over it. Maybe it would be safer with respect to bass quality, and much less costly, to go with the 1028s.
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FAMILY ROOM--Legacy Signature II towers(Front L/R), PSB Image 5T towers(Surrounds), Polk LSiM706 center, Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, AR ES-1 turntable w/ Audioquest 404-B cartridge, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray Player, RCA HD-DVD player, Sony 75" 900E.
MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Onkyo TX-NR809, Oppo BDP-83 Universal Disc Player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.
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post #7889 of 7902 Old 01-16-2020, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by leeshanok View Post
If you intend to keep them for a long time or may be your last pair for a while, I recommend going with the 1038BE. I’ve heard the 1028BE, and own the 1038BE. No sub needed, gets plenty low. I also own 2 pairs of the 1008BE.

Thanks, well, considering that I've stuck with my Legacy Audio Signature IIs for around 20 years, that is a consideration. But if the 1038s won't work well because of not being able to pull them out into the room, then going with them may be ill advised. If anyone has obtained great results with them close to the front wall, I'd like to hear how that worked in their room.

FAMILY ROOM--Legacy Signature II towers(Front L/R), PSB Image 5T towers(Surrounds), Polk LSiM706 center, Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, AR ES-1 turntable w/ Audioquest 404-B cartridge, Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray Player, RCA HD-DVD player, Sony 75" 900E.
MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Onkyo TX-NR809, Oppo BDP-83 Universal Disc Player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.
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post #7890 of 7902 Old 01-17-2020, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
i think the focal recommendations in manual for setup works well. one of biggest improvements for me setup wise was moving tv off tv console and putting it on wall. huge improvement. in regards to rythmiks, i would ask on the owners thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...er-thread.html


Spent this morning using the Focal manual formulas to figure out the best placement for my speakers and I was only off by a couple inches. Basically, the further forward the speaker is from the back wall, the closer the speaker can be to the side wall and vise versa. At 27 inches from the back wall to the front of the speaker, my speaker needs to be 14-15 inches from the side wall.
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