Revel Owners Thread - Page 376 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11251 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Venger99 View Post
I have just finished your excellent book. Thanks for the comments.
My room will be approx 5 x4 m and I will be approx 2/3 back, in the centre when listening. To be honest, it will mostly be me listening or perhaps 2 or 3 friends or family in a row, say in the centre 1.5 m.
In this situation am I better off with the monopole?
I don’t suppose their are spinoramas available for the two speakers?
Best wishes
If the room is 4 m (12 ft) wide, the prime listener will be roughy 2m from the side surrounds, which is a safe distance. However, listeners on either side will be so close that they will likely be able to localize the speakers and the sense of envelopment from them will be seriously compromised. This is an inherent problem with narrow rooms. So, the optimum solution, in my opinion, is to go for a 7.1 system, placing the side loudspeakers forward of the listening location as shown in Figure 15.8(b) in my book, where the reasoning is explained. Because only the prime listener is likely to be optimally entertained, I would take the selfish approach and use good forward firing loudspeakers all of which are aimed at me. Elevating the surround speakers will help the side listeners somewhat. It is difficult for several listeners to share a comparably good surround sound experience in small rooms . . . unfortunately.
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post #11252 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by miike88 View Post
When will the C228be be released? or the F226be?

im pulling the trigger on the Revels but not knowing if there will an center speaker in the same line up its hard to know wich one to buy:/

please give me an helping hand here kevin!

//Mike
My understanding is that any C228Be will be quite a ways out, assuming that Revel even decides to go that route. As I've mentioned before, I have voiced my strong "pro-C228Be" position, but I don't pull the strings

F226Be is probably CEDIA or CES 2019 timeframe. But it's all still speculation - please please don't take this as gospel. As I posted earlier in the week, I imagine Revel is going to see how well the other Bes are selling before hard decisions are made.

So, my best suggestion is that everyone buy the already announced Bes so that Harman knows the demand is there

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post #11253 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 04:47 PM
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Interesting in that I have both the LSR305s and LSR708is. As might be imagined, the 3 series have that "sweeter" high end for strings and such, but the 7 series have more intense dynamics. For rock and pop, not much of a huge difference, but for classical / orchestral music, I still prefer the Revel / dome tweeter sound.
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post #11254 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bachelor View Post
Can I ask for help with surround speakers specifically with the Revel M105 and S206s since we are on the topic? I'm upgrading all 7 channels in my dedicated room and already have the F206s in place. I'm debating on a C205 or a C208 and for the rears I'm questioning what to use on the sides and which ones on the rear wall. I'm not wired for atmos and will leave that out of the discussion for now.

M105 on side
S206 on rear

M105 on rear
S206 on side

Only use M105 or only use S206

Can I get some opinions?
I think Dr. Toole's guidance applies here. If you are tuning the room for your own personal sweet spot, the M105 all around would make the most sense IF your ears are not going to be seriously off axis from the speaker, or you won't have a speaker firing right into your ear. If you need to cover more seating locations - or the speakers will be very close to a particular seating location, where someone is getting blasted by one of the surrounds - the S206 makes sense. It doesn't really matter for rear or side surround - the same idea applies.

Definitely go with the C208 if budget allows - it's the most important speaker in a surround system.

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post #11255 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by filmnut View Post
Multichannel music is to stereo what 3D movies are to 2D, only it works much better. I never listen in stereo anymore, unless I'm using headphones. I'm even finishing a room in my basement strictly for multichannel music.
And, speaking as a sometime film composer, I would always argue that the music score is the most important part of a movie soundtrack, far more important than dialogue or sound effects

As Kevin Voecks says, we must always remember that there is an awful lot of music in movies
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post #11256 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I am upgrading game room system.

Currently, there is a pair of Revel M20s driven by an Oppo BDP-105D and Yamaha RX-A820 receiver.

The location is not great. The gear is wall mounted as are the speakers to allow folks to walk under them (but I can move them a bit).
An image is attached.

Under consideration:

Oppo BDP-105D (remains as the preamp)
Apple TV 4K (Streamer)
Amp: ATI AT522NC or AT4002 (I'd rather have the AT4002 but the size and weight are pushing the limits of the wall shelf).
Speakers: Keep M20's or M106 or M106be
Subwoofer: Martin Logan Grotto-I (remains)

What is the list price for a pair of the M106be's?

- Rich
List price on the M126Be is $2K each - $4k per pair.
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post #11257 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jlemke View Post
I'm in the not-too-fast process of upgrading my system. I'm seriously entertaining going with M106s across the front, since I do have the room to put an upright M106 in the center at ear level and still fit below my 65" OLED. Movies are significant for us, but multi-channel music is absolutely my top priority -- I think probably 75% of the blu-rays I own are operas and concert videos.

FWIW, my first step was to buy an Anthem 720 in anticipation of wanting its bass management capabilities as I rely more on subs to provide bass.

Eventually, I'll go at least to a 7.1 system, but most likely 7.2.4.

Does anyone have any experience or just informed thoughts about this plan?

Thanks.
Nothing better than using three identical speakers across the front - that's how all films are mixed. And surround music as well.

The Anthem will do a great job blending subs with the M106s.

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post #11258 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachelor View Post
Can I ask for help with surround speakers specifically with the Revel M105 and S206s since we are on the topic? I'm upgrading all 7 channels in my dedicated room and already have the F206s in place. I'm debating on a C205 or a C208 and for the rears I'm questioning what to use on the sides and which ones on the rear wall. I'm not wired for atmos and will leave that out of the discussion for now.

M105 on side
S206 on rear

M105 on rear
S206 on side

Only use M105 or only use S206

Can I get some opinions?
Bachelor,
Would you please supply a very rough sketch of the room dimensions, indicating the seating area and the distance from the seating area to the fronts, sides and rears? That info would be useful in supplying the most helpful response.

Best regards,
Kevin

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post #11259 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Can't speak to the Elac, but the Revel Concertas pretty soundly beat out Monitor Audio during the double blinds at Harman
Andrew Jones was recruited by Floyd Toole and is why AJ moved to the USA. I realize co-axial mid/tweeters, like in the Elac UniQ, may add IM distortion, however it would be interesting to see how speakers between two highly regarded speaker designers that previously worked together compare in a blind test. Since Andrew Jones Elac speakers have been very popular, maybe they'll get shuffled into the mix at some point.

(Floyd Toole reference @ 18 minutes)

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post #11260 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
List price on the M126Be is $2K each - $4k per pair.

Are they shipping?


Are you a dealer for the JBL studio monitors?
If so, PM me


- Rich

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post #11261 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Are they shipping?

- Rich
M126Be will be shipping in March / April.
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post #11262 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by genesplitter View Post
Andrew Jones was recruited by Floyd Toole and is why AJ moved to the USA. I realize co-axial mid/tweeters, like in the Elac UniQ, may add IM distortion, however it would be interesting to see how speakers between two highly regarded speaker designers that previously worked together compare in a blind test. Since Andrew Jones Elac speakers have been very popular, maybe they'll get shuffled into the mix at some point.

(Floyd Toole reference @ 18 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yllo...tu.be&t=18m01s
In the interests of keeping the historical record straight, it was Laurie Fincham who brought Andrew to his new team at Infinity, after he departed KEF and was hired to lead the Infinity product development program at Harman. They worked together at KEF and Andrew was an obviously competent addition to the team - so, indirectly, I was responsible for his arrival in the US. I had absolutely nothing to do with their product development activities, other than ensuring that the necessary engineering facilities were available and, at their choice, double-blind listening tests were available courtesy of the research group. At a point it was clear that the somewhat insular Infinity product development group was not working well within the complex Harman organization and the team was dissolved, people went their own ways, and Infinity product design reverted to the core Harman design group. Harman is a big organization, requiring a certain amount of give and take with respect to sourcing and manufacturing in order to take advantage of economies of scale. I played a role in recruiting Laurie Fincham, but not with hiring the rest of his team, nor with its eventual dissolution. They were employed by the Harman Consumer Group, within which the brands were separately managed, and they exercised a certain amount of independence at that time. I was a Corporate Officer, with no line authority to the brands. All that said, Andrew was and is a credit to his profession, deservedly successful, and I wish him well.
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post #11263 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by miike88 View Post
When will the C228be be released? or the F226be?

im pulling the trigger on the Revels but not knowing if there will an center speaker in the same line up its hard to know wich one to buy:/

please give me an helping hand here kevin!

//Mike
Mike,

I believe it is likely that there will be a center channel speaker to complement the Be's, but that is neither a guarantee or an indication of when. We didn't know how much demand there would be for a "matching" center channel. Therefore, it will depend on customer demand. If that demand proves itself to exist, there is still the usual scheduling of engineering resources that make it difficult to predict timing.

Best regards,
Kevin

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post #11264 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by miike88 View Post
When will the C228be be released? or the F226be?

im pulling the trigger on the Revels but not knowing if there will an center speaker in the same line up its hard to know wich one to buy:/

please give me an helping hand here kevin!

//Mike
Not Kevin, but the obvious answer is to get a good center with Be tweeter so you are prepared for any eventuality. Thus, I give you... Revel Voice 2!
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post #11265 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 10:11 PM
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Not Kevin, but the obvious answer is to get a good center with Be tweeter so you are prepared for any eventuality. Thus, I give you... Revel Voice 2!
Can't go wrong with the Voice2, I liked it so much in my home theater had to get another one for my kitchen - it's that good.
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post #11266 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 10:14 PM
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no need for center...they all sound the same.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
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post #11267 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 10:30 PM
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Can't go wrong with the Voice2, I liked it so much in my home theater had to get another one for my kitchen - it's that good.
What plays in the kitchen?
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post #11268 of 16554 Old 02-09-2018, 11:27 PM
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What plays in the kitchen?
Using a Lexicon MC-8 along with an Outlaw 5000 for power. The short answer is I auditioned half a dozen centers and it was the Voice2 I could listen to with zero complaints. Effortless power, smooth, superb clarity. Sources vary, a mix of music, movies and sports.
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post #11269 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 12:23 AM
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My F36s and C208 arrived today. The center is just a teensy upgrade from my old one. Yikes! Can't wait to get it all setup.

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post #11270 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Interesting in that I have both the LSR305s and LSR708is. As might be imagined, the 3 series have that "sweeter" high end for strings and such, but the 7 series have more intense dynamics. For rock and pop, not much of a huge difference, but for classical / orchestral music, I still prefer the Revel / dome tweeter sound.
Interesting. As an active classical musician I've always appreciated the sound of a good compression driver and also don't like to hear too much of the room. Perhaps it has to do with how we experience the real thing. Some people are used to hearing the orchestra from the audience, but those who are usually in it may have a different 'reference'.

Just an anectdote: as someone who plays an instrument dependent entirely on reflections (the horn), it's of vital importance that we adjust the way we perform to the venue and ensemble in question. People who often play on commercial recordings for instance, are more likely to use somewhat 'larger' sized equipment (instrument tapers - mouthpieces - ..) and will tend to even place the bell on the knee or leg, which dampens out some of the higher overtones. This gives the impression of a good horn sound even when close mic'ed.

Orchestral players on the other hand who play in large auditoriums will often choose their equipment wisely to add a bit more 'zing' to the sound. A fortissimo passage can sound like glass breaking at that point, but for the audience, it will more often than not, sound just right.

I'm generalising somewhat now, as there many 'schools' and styles of playing.. but you get the picture.

Tim
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post #11271 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 09:11 AM
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When we did a down to the framing reno of my living room, we laid 2 layers of T&G plywood nominally equal 1 1/8" over 2x12 joists on 16" centers.
The 1st layer was glued & screwed. The 2nd layer was screwed with a layer of green glue applied between them.
The floor itself is 3/4 x 5 Santos Mahogany side-cleated with a 3mm cork underlayment.

It's about as solid as a lumber framed floor gets without being ridiculous.
All depends on the span! I built a custom with 2x12 12" oc and 2x6 t&g and walking across the floor would make the turntable skip! start spanning 18-20 Ln/ft with conventional lumber and things can get dicey.

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post #11272 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
no need for center...they all sound the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epetti View Post
My F36s and C208 arrived today. The center is just a teensy upgrade from my old one. Yikes! Can't wait to get it all setup.



Please let us know if you can detect a difference in sound quality

- Rich
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post #11273 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by avkv View Post
Mike,

I believe it is likely that there will be a center channel speaker to complement the Be's, but that is neither a guarantee or an indication of when. We didn't know how much demand there would be for a "matching" center channel. Therefore, it will depend on customer demand. If that demand proves itself to exist, there is still the usual scheduling of engineering resources that make it difficult to predict timing.

Best regards,
Kevin
Hi!

Pulled the trigger yesterday on F208:s and C208 in black....yaayyy!!! delivery in next week.

Hope this will be an upgrade from my F206:s and C205 i sold last week.

BUT if i knew that there would have been a C228be and F228be in gloss black on release day i would have bought them:/

So kevin and Harman you can write down you just lost a sale in the new BE line up because of some strange decisions....no offense please!

Learning by doing

//Mike
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post #11274 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 11:20 AM
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The LSR705P are interesting. They have mounting holes on the bottom and front ports.
It's probably safe to assume the analog inputs are digitized for processing and it is not clear if that can be defeated.


I can't find a manual for these online.


- Rich
Here you go:

http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachm...ual-052417.pdf

More:

http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachm...0Sheet_2pg.pdf
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post #11275 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by miike88 View Post
Hi!

Pulled the trigger yesterday on F208:s and C208 in black....yaayyy!!! delivery in next week.

Hope this will be an upgrade from my F206:s and C205 i sold last week.

BUT if i knew that there would have been a C228be and F228be in gloss black on release day i would have bought them:/

So kevin and Harman you can write down you just lost a sale in the new BE line up because of some strange decisions....no offense please!

Learning by doing

//Mike
What amp/amps are you using?
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post #11276 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by epetti View Post
My F36s and C208 arrived today. The center is just a teensy upgrade from my old one. Yikes! Can't wait to get it all setup.

The yellow in the eyes of the old center is fear...

Enjoy the new speakers!
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post #11277 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
I think Dr. Toole's guidance applies here. If you are tuning the room for your own personal sweet spot, the M105 all around would make the most sense IF your ears are not going to be seriously off axis from the speaker, or you won't have a speaker firing right into your ear. If you need to cover more seating locations - or the speakers will be very close to a particular seating location, where someone is getting blasted by one of the surrounds - the S206 makes sense. It doesn't really matter for rear or side surround - the same idea applies.

Definitely go with the C208 if budget allows - it's the most important speaker in a surround system.
Agree x 2:

The S206's are really nice. A very unscientific test, when leaving the media room during the "show", and walking by the S206's they sound good, realistic, whatever; making music or sound effects. The S206's a few years back replaced some PSB surrounds that made noise.

The C208 looks good; a three-way center channel. The Voice2 is excellent. Long ago with a different system, I had a 2-way MTM center, which I sold, and found a phantom center, with whatever issues it raises, to be better than the 2-way MTM center. Many that post on this forum have really nice systems with really mediocre appearing MTM center channels. With many lines of speakers the center seems to be an after thought, or it's necessary to move up one level in the line to get a decent center.
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post #11278 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 12:01 PM
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Although intriguing, I don't think these work for me because:

  • It looks like they will do an A/D conversion
  • Power must be run to each speaker
  • No auto-power on or triggering which does not work for speakers mounted up high
The 3 series is a better match but they do not have the compression driver and still require power.


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post #11279 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The yellow in the eyes of the old center is fear...

Enjoy the new speakers!
LOL! The Revel does look more menacing, doesn't it - like it's going to eat the old center

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post #11280 of 16554 Old 02-10-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TimVG View Post
Interesting. As an active classical musician I've always appreciated the sound of a good compression driver and also don't like to hear too much of the room. Perhaps it has to do with how we experience the real thing. Some people are used to hearing the orchestra from the audience, but those who are usually in it may have a different 'reference'.

Just an anectdote: as someone who plays an instrument dependent entirely on reflections (the horn), it's of vital importance that we adjust the way we perform to the venue and ensemble in question. People who often play on commercial recordings for instance, are more likely to use somewhat 'larger' sized equipment (instrument tapers - mouthpieces - ..) and will tend to even place the bell on the knee or leg, which dampens out some of the higher overtones. This gives the impression of a good horn sound even when close mic'ed.

Orchestral players on the other hand who play in large auditoriums will often choose their equipment wisely to add a bit more 'zing' to the sound. A fortissimo passage can sound like glass breaking at that point, but for the audience, it will more often than not, sound just right.

I'm generalising somewhat now, as there many 'schools' and styles of playing.. but you get the picture.

Tim
Thanks for sharing this perspective! After we did the big "JBL M2 vs. Revel Salon2" shootout - with the Salon2 pulling just ahead in terms of overall preference - one of the biggest qualities noted regarding the two speakers was that the Salon2s had a silkier string sound vs. the somewhat harsher sound of the M2. After much discussion (which incidentally involved many of the highly respected people who post in this thread), it was determined that this "harsher" sound was probably due to the fact that the M2 presented more direct sound vs. reflected sound, which lines up with what you are saying.

No that I have the Salon2s and the M2 derivative SCL2s in the same room, I can still switch back and forth between the two speakers at my leisure. One of the things I have noticed is that I still prefer the Salon2s by a pretty large measure when listening to most orchestral and pop music, but close mic'd horns / woodwinds and percussion have a bit more persuasive sound on the SCL2s (when I listen to the Jen Chapin recording of "You Haven't Done Nothin'" with its close mic'd saxophone, the SCL2s make it sound like the sax player is right in the room with me).

What do you play? I used to play trumpet back in high school, but play and compose on keyboards now. I have conducted a full orchestra on a couple of occasions, and to me the only speaker I've ever heard that fully captures that orchestral sound is the Salon2.

With solo, close mic'd instruments, though, sometimes I really like the SCL2 / M2 sound.
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