Revel Owners Thread - Page 385 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5748Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11521 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 11:25 AM
Oppo Beta Group
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 11,245
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2022 Post(s)
Liked: 1455
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
This thread will really deteriorate if we're all going to make judgements on what is pretty, or cute or even, my; gorgeous. I gave a set of F208's as a gift. I assume by now those speakers are under a tarp in the garage. It is amazing that Revel would produce such a blot on the interior decorating landscape. Perhaps this thread can be combined with a Wilson speaker thread. Wilson puts a lot of emphasis on flashy colors.

Products that do not sell are technical monuments. Offering more finish choices is a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
To me, the top of the F208 has a touch of brilliance in the way it modifies the shape of what would other wise be another "Monkey coffin." I thought that when I first saw the speaker. Shape is of critical importance in products and in architecture. Colors can be changed to suit the mood. Hopefully to suit everyone, the F208 and it's siblings will soon be offered with easily removable tops, and tops in a wide variety of luscious, gorgeous (etc., etc., gag) will be offered.
Aesthetics matter
IMO, the Be series choice of white drivers is not a good one. For example, my brother-in-law leaves the grills off because the cats use them as scratching posts. Not everyone wants the drivers to call attention to themselves.


- Rich

Oppo UPD-205 x 2 | UPD-203 | Sonica DAC | Emotiva XMC-1 (v3) | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Benchmark AHB2 x 4 | ATI AT522NC | Velodyne HGS-15 | LG 77C9 | Lumagen 2020 | HDFury Vertex x 2
RichB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #11522 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 11:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Gary Sedlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Las Vegas,NV
Posts: 337
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 115
It is rather sad to see the deterioration of this thread.

So Revel has chosen to do what many other speaker manufactures are doing. Offer choices of finishes. Gee I never knew (choice) was such a negative thing. Perhaps the OP should take a look at Focal, Brodman, Sonus Farber that is just three that come to mind instantly.

It is actually a smart business decision to offer more to the market place. Having owned a couple of business in the past (completely unrelated to AV) if I would have had a "Stepford" mentality toward my product offering I would not have lasted a week. A bit of diversity is a good thing in product marketing.

I have been privileged to see some of the new finishes first hand at CES and some are very appealing. As far at the top cover on the 208's of which I own I have not found it in any way, shape or form to be a detriment. It's there (get over it).

Congratulation to Harmon, Kevin and the good people a Revel for making a fine quality speaker in models the will suit almost anyone's budget and now their finish choices as well.

Gary
RichB, gsr, avkv and 5 others like this.

Have fun with music and HT

Gary
Gary Sedlack is offline  
post #11523 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 12:56 PM
Member
 
avkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Revel Performa3 Be Series Transducers

Quote:
Originally Posted by BI0DRAINX View Post
I hate to be the one to say it... Talk to Prelude MTS owners about disintegrating drivers... CMMD Failures..I hope its not the same ceramic..
I have investigated this claim with the our Customer Support department, as well as the group that previously supported Infinity products, and also the engineer who originated CMMD cones. There have been no reports whatsoever of any failures of CMMD cone material.

Best regards,
Kevin
John Schuermann, GLBright and Aja like this.
avkv is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #11524 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 01:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
filmnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 1,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Sedlack View Post
So Revel has chosen to do what many other speaker manufactures are doing. Offer choices of finishes. Gee I never knew (choice) was such a negative thing. Perhaps the OP should take a look at Focal, Brodman, Sonus Farber that is just three that come to mind instantly.

It is actually a smart business decision to offer more to the market place. Having owned a couple of business in the past (completely unrelated to AV) if I would have had a "Stepford" mentality toward my product offering I would not have lasted a week. A bit of diversity is a good thing in product marketing.
I don't believe anyone's complaining about more choices being offered. I just wish they had chosen different new choices. Instead of metallic brown and blue, for instance, I think any of the loudspeakers would look stellar in natural maple, either matte or glossy. Rosewood, bamboo or something more exotic would be really nice. Take a look at the custom veneers and finishes on the Salk Sound site for examples of incredible cabinetry. Finishes like that would be more expensive, obviously, but shouldn't be a problem for anyone with the means to be looking at the Ultima2 lineup in the first place. But, if the market wants paint, then paint it shall be.

filmnut
filmnut is offline  
post #11525 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 01:37 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,361
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1688 Post(s)
Liked: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmnut View Post
I don't believe anyone's complaining about more choices being offered. I just wish they had chosen different new choices. Instead of metallic brown and blue, for instance, I think any of the loudspeakers would look stellar in natural maple, either matte or glossy. Rosewood, bamboo or something more exotic would be really nice. Take a look at the custom veneers and finishes on the Salk Sound site for examples of incredible cabinetry. Finishes like that would be more expensive, obviously, but shouldn't be a problem for anyone with the means to be looking at the Ultima2 lineup in the first place. But, if the market wants paint, then paint it shall be.
Now here's exotic:
https://lazypenguins.com/worlds-most...-in-the-world/

How about ebony, at $10k/kg? 😱

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides/Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, Image B6 screens, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 13.4.6
HAA HT1 and HT2 Certification
sdrucker is offline  
post #11526 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 02:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15,183
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2814 Post(s)
Liked: 2731
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


Aesthetics matter
IMO, the Be series choice of white drivers is not a good one. For example, my brother-in-law leaves the grills off because the cats use them as scratching posts. Not everyone wants the drivers to call attention to themselves.


- Rich
Yup, me for one *raises hand*

My speakers go in a nice, renovated room and they are essentially "furniture" that we are looking at all the time. So they have to integrate well and compliment, not detract, from the aesthetics of the room. More choice in colors/finishes are better.

And I personally really dislike looking at the speaker drivers. Especially ones that call attention to themselves. I can't help but be all the more conscious of the sound is coming from the tweeters and woofers in front of me, where I want the effect of the technology disappearing and the artists appearing instead.
So I favor really nice speaker designs, for me I prefer a great wood finish, and I also appreciate when speakers have been designed with the grill in mind, such that they sound best with the grill (or it doesn't detract), and the grill fits nicely inset, coherent with the rest of the speaker (vs so many grills that are clearly designed as an after thought 'we'll give you these if you really need them' so they look like a stuck-on afterthought).

My current Thiel 2.7 speakers fit every one of these criteria perfectly.

I know many audiophiles love to see every bit of technology the paid for - every speaker driver and cable etc. I'm not one of those.
R Harkness is offline  
post #11527 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 07:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Nyal Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Posts: 1,729
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 545 Post(s)
Liked: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by avkv View Post
Steven59,



Yes indeed, the F228Be is new from the ground-up, other than retaining most of the F208 industrial design. It is not "just" that there are new transducer diaphragm materials; all the motor systems are brand new. One of the major results is superior freedom from dynamic compression. One of the tests that we do in addition to Spin-o-ramas is a dynamic compression test that clearly shows how speakers change their sonic character as output levels increase. Revel has always taken great pains to optimize this characteristic, and the F228Be takes it another step. Together with improved transparency and very low distortion, the F228Be does take $10,000/pair US retail speakers to a new level of performance.



Best regards,

Kevin


Hi Kevin

I would be interested if you can provide technical details on these dynamic compression measurements - how the tests are performed and how the measurements are documented.

I’m also curious what other tests you perform beyond the spins, and your rationale for doing these tests.

Thanks,

Nyal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Want to learn about home theater design and acoustics? Read our blog.
Company: Acoustic Frontiers - design and creation of high performance home theaters for discerning audio/video enthusiasts.
Certifications: HAA Level I & II, THX Video Level I & II, CEDIA EST I & II.
AVS Projects: Too many to show in my signature - see here for the master list.
Nyal Mellor is offline  
post #11528 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 07:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 7,313
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3642 Post(s)
Liked: 2077
well I have said this before...revel speakers at bottom end(lower cost models) sound great, but cant play loud enough even with big amp power in large spaces...maybe the new be stuff addresses this.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is offline  
post #11529 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 07:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 5,946
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 552 Post(s)
Liked: 546
As always, I live on the West Coast and defy the demographic but.
Car finishes have never been my choice for a speaker cabinet buy they are popular.
You have to offer what the consumers want.
Whatever the final finish, it all turns to green.

 
Milt99 is offline  
post #11530 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 09:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
filmnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 1,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
well I have said this before...revel speakers at bottom end(lower cost models) sound great, but cant play loud enough even with big amp power in large spaces...maybe the new be stuff addresses this.
How loud is loud enough? How big is big amp power? How large are large spaces? Your statement is too general to be useful. Just because the new models are capable of improved dynamics isn't to say that there's something wrong with the current ones, is there?

filmnut
filmnut is offline  
post #11531 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 09:32 PM
Member
 
avkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Revel Industrial Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
Your definition of industrial design and the definition found in Wikipedia are different. Wikipedia's definition separates the design process from the manufacturing process, your definition seems to imply that industrial design means a feature that is only made for appearance, not function.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_design

Frankly Wikipedia's definition makes more sense. What is the source of your definition?
Bigguyca,

I am afraid I am missing something, because my definition aligns with Wikipedia’s. I don’t get the separation of design and manufacturing, as it is of course separate, but a good Industrial Deisgner must always prove that their design can indeed be manufactured. An Industrial Designer came up with the original design of the top, which really had a nice impact on the overall look. Our full-time in-house Industrial Designer improved upon that design with the F228Be and M126Be.

Best regards,
Kevin
avkv is offline  
post #11532 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 09:36 PM
Member
 
avkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Revel Acoustic Tests in addition to Spin-o-ramas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post
Hi Kevin

I would be interested if you can provide technical details on these dynamic compression measurements - how the tests are performed and how the measurements are documented.

I’m also curious what other tests you perform beyond the spins, and your rationale for doing these tests.

Thanks,

Nyal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nyla,

That’s a great question. I will work on gathering the results of some of the other tests that we do to characterize distortion, dynamic compression, and other non-linear performance.

Best regards,
Kevin
avkv is offline  
post #11533 of 16553 Old 03-25-2018, 09:54 PM
Member
 
avkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Revel Performa3 F206, F208, and Ultima Studio2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
I remember that article. Overall, Tom Norton preferred the 208 to the Studio2 by like .1 or something.
If you read the article, you'll see that on certain selections he preferred the 206, 208 or the Studio2.
When doing an audition we all listen for certain details in different kinds of music, at least I do.
I come from the Harbeth school where you get the mids right and then go for the periphery with listening to cymbals for the delicate shimmer, air & extended decay.
Love the bottom end as much as anyone which is the area I feel the Studio could improve but still it is tight and punchy.
The Salons rule on orchestral\symphonic music no doubt but in the end of you like the Revel sound, you're 98% there no matter your pick.

As far as Atmos, maybe everyone understands this but Atmos is a totally different approach.
If you've ever written software and I have, Atmos is object-based sound design.
It can take a selected sounds, define them as a discrete object and place them wherever they want.
I've heard a really fine Atmos home theater and have Dolby Vision theaters locally which are another step visually and Atmos is the real deal.
No 5.x or 7.x system equals the immersion of Atmos.
I have a 7.4 dedicated home theater and there is no comparison to my friend's Atmos. None.
Do I want to do the work necessary for Atmos? Nope.

If I was building out my room in 2018 rather than 2007 probably so but I'm not.
Perhaps for my retirement in Belize or Bozeman.
Until then I'll just have to muddle through
The Studio2 LF response is “overdamped,” or has an general slight downward tilt at low frequencies. The F208 does not have any downward tilt, while of course the F206 has less LF extension and lower dynamic capabilities than the F208. The Studio2 has the advantage of very low diffraction, better refinement, and a much-better tweeter. Note that despite its similar construction, the Studio2 does not have the same transparency as the Salon2, which uses the same tweeter, but a smaller midrange (thus, necessitating the mid-woofer).

Low frequency balance is more immediately obvious under direct double-blind testing than more subtle, but still crucial characteristics such as midrange smoothness, seamlessness, and overall transparency. But it should be noted that below a few hundred Hz, the room, speaker placement and listener location completely swamp the actual speaker’s characteristics, so this particular parameter is not nearly as overwhelmingly important as it may seem in a double-blind comparison. When we use a large variety of short selections, the results are always, in increasing preference the F206, F208, and the Salon2, which is the constant we usually employ for listening tests.

Best regards,
Kevin
Milt99, John Schuermann and Aja like this.
avkv is offline  
post #11534 of 16553 Old 03-26-2018, 12:33 AM
Member
 
Spinaker01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by avkv View Post
The Studio2 LF response is “overdamped,” or has an general slight downward tilt at low frequencies. The F208 does not have any downward tilt, while of course the F206 has less LF extension and lower dynamic capabilities than the F208. The Studio2 has the advantage of very low diffraction, better refinement, and a much-better tweeter. Note that despite its similar construction, the Studio2 does not have the same transparency as the Salon2, which uses the same tweeter, but a smaller midrange (thus, necessitating the mid-woofer).

Low frequency balance is more immediately obvious under direct double-blind testing than more subtle, but still crucial characteristics such as midrange smoothness, seamlessness, and overall transparency. But it should be noted that below a few hundred Hz, the room, speaker placement and listener location completely swamp the actual speaker’s characteristics, so this particular parameter is not nearly as overwhelmingly important as it may seem in a double-blind comparison. When we use a large variety of short selections, the results are always, in increasing preference the F206, F208, and the Salon2, which is the constant we usually employ for listening tests.

Best regards,
Kevin
Hi Kevin, first off, thanks for all of your hard work over the years on both the wonderful speakers you have designed as well as your participation here on this site. I absolutely love my Studio2’s and would only ever consider moving up to the Salon2 if I had a larger room and a much bigger amp budget but they are amazing! My question is; given the 228be also having a Be tweeter and better low frequency extension than the Studio2, is this now the new king under the Salon?
avkv likes this.

Lumin T1 | Vitus RI-100 | Revel Ultima Studio2 | JL Audio: F110(2) & F112

Last edited by Spinaker01; 03-26-2018 at 09:52 AM.
Spinaker01 is offline  
post #11535 of 16553 Old 03-26-2018, 08:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
laserjock II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas Coast
Posts: 2,633
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1319 Post(s)
Liked: 747
The F228Be seems to be the cat’s meow.

Now where’s that center channel for us that want HT and Multi-Channel 5.1 music?..

Hello C228Be. Calling your name.
MaxTemp likes this.
laserjock II is offline  
post #11536 of 16553 Old 03-26-2018, 07:33 PM
Member
 
avkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post
Yes, I know who I am responding to. I have the highest respect for his work and I have owned Revels for years.
Regardless of who he is I do not have to share his opinion. Perhaps I should have been more subtle with mine. Responding and drinking may be worse than driving and drinking.

MY APOLOGIES, KEVIN.
MUDCAT45,

Apologies accepted; thank you.

Kevin
avkv is offline  
post #11537 of 16553 Old 03-26-2018, 07:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,792
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1785 Post(s)
Liked: 1486
Quote:
Originally Posted by avkv View Post
I have investigated this claim with the our Customer Support department, as well as the group that previously supported Infinity products, and also the engineer who originated CMMD cones. There have been no reports whatsoever of any failures of CMMD cone material.

Best regards,
Kevin
I believe he was referring to the issue in the Prelude MTS and some of the Intermezzo-line speakers where the coating on the neo magnet could flake off and get trapped in the voice coil, creating a scraping sound. It's not a CMMD cone issue, it was just an issue with certain drivers which happened to use CMMD cones.

HT: Sony 940C, Oppo 203, Harman/Kardon DPR1001, Infinity Interlude IL40 x2, Infinity Interlude IL36C, Infinity MS-1 ii x2, Infinity MSW-1
Computer: Elac Uni-Fi UB5 x2, Elac Element EA101EQ integrated amp, SVS SB-12NSD
Dedicated 2-channel: Infinity Intermezzo 4.1t towers, Bluesound Node 2, Emotiva PT-100, Crown XLS 1502, Furman PL-8C
TuteTibiImperes is offline  
post #11538 of 16553 Old 03-26-2018, 08:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
torii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 7,313
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3642 Post(s)
Liked: 2077
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmnut View Post
How loud is loud enough? How big is big amp power? How large are large spaces? Your statement is too general to be useful. Just because the new models are capable of improved dynamics isn't to say that there's something wrong with the current ones, is there?
well when shopping against, what I said may lead to loss of sale...or not...

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
torii is offline  
post #11539 of 16553 Old 03-27-2018, 05:29 AM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 10,354
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1981 Post(s)
Liked: 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
well when shopping against, what I said may lead to loss of sale...or not...
How can one argue with that as you've covered all bases: the customer will either buy it or they won't.
torii likes this.
gsr is offline  
post #11540 of 16553 Old 03-27-2018, 06:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
TimVG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by torii View Post
well when shopping against, what I said may lead to loss of sale...or not...
Accuracy - SPL capabilities - Low range extension - Reasonably priced

You may pick three. There's always a compromise.
TimVG is offline  
post #11541 of 16553 Old 03-27-2018, 06:30 AM
Oppo Beta Group
 
RichB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 11,245
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2022 Post(s)
Liked: 1455
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
How can one argue with that as you've covered all bases: the customer will either buy it or they won't.
Never rule our endless vacillating.

-Rich
Bill-99 likes this.

Oppo UPD-205 x 2 | UPD-203 | Sonica DAC | Emotiva XMC-1 (v3) | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Benchmark AHB2 x 4 | ATI AT522NC | Velodyne HGS-15 | LG 77C9 | Lumagen 2020 | HDFury Vertex x 2
RichB is offline  
post #11542 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 09:44 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,420
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3313 Post(s)
Liked: 3423
I know the Benchmark AHB2 is good, but has anyone tried a Sanders Magtech? That is/was on my short list, Roger lives an hour or two away, and I've admired his stuff for ages.

Still vacillating on amps...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
post #11543 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 12:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
filmnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 1,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I know the Benchmark AHB2 is good, but has anyone tried a Sanders Magtech? That is/was on my short list, Roger lives an hour or two away, and I've admired his stuff for ages.

Still vacillating on amps...
Do you need the massive power of the Magtech? I see he has a 30-day free trial, so you can give it a go for no risk. And you can enjoy a nice drive through the mountains to pick it up in person

He makes some statements of a general nature on his design philosophy that I find highly questionable, but I can't judge the product as I have no experience with it.

If you need that much power, you might also consider the ATI 54xNC amps, which carry the same power rating of 500/8, 900/4. Maybe a home shootout is in order.

filmnut
filmnut is offline  
post #11544 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 12:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,420
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3313 Post(s)
Liked: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmnut View Post
Do you need the massive power of the Magtech? I see he has a 30-day free trial, so you can give it a go for no risk. And you can enjoy a nice drive through the mountains to pick it up in person

He makes some statements of a general nature on his design philosophy that I find highly questionable, but I can't judge the product as I have no experience with it.

If you need that much power, you might also consider the ATI 54xNC amps, which carry the same power rating of 500/8, 900/4. Maybe a home shootout is in order.
Good question regarding the power. With my speakers in my room it would take 650 W into four ohms to achieve 105 dB/speaker at the MLP. That is louder than I am likely to need but I have used that as a goal for the last few incarnations of my system. My current amps are rated 500 W in to 4 ohms and most of the time are just idling; not sure I have ever seen more than half the power LEDs flicker let alone clipping indicators.

The ATI amps are also on my short list; they have been well-reviewed and are highly-regarded, though some have questioned their ability to drive low-Z loads. I have not seen any data to support such concerns.

Roger is a character. It is as much for the chance to see he and Angie again as to get the amps...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
post #11545 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 01:10 PM
Member
 
av7equip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hello everyone, quick question and or advice. I have a pair of 1st generation Salons. Phenomenal sounding speakers to say the least. They are big, but I see why. I currently have them powered by a amplifier supplying 170w at 6 ohms. The mids and highs are excellent. I do feel like the mid-bass, bass department is lacking any punch. No deep lows are showing themselves. I do have a nice subwoofer to compensate but still feel like the lows are not there especially with two channel music, rock, bass lines, etc. Maybe I am not feeding them enough power? I have also read that the Salons really dont show their magic until you start to turn them up. The room they are in is medium in size and decent for sound.

Thanks again,

Nick..
av7equip is offline  
post #11546 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 02:21 PM
Member
 
Floyd Toole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: California
Posts: 841
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 883 Post(s)
Liked: 3110
Quote:
Originally Posted by av7equip View Post
Hello everyone, quick question and or advice. I have a pair of 1st generation Salons. Phenomenal sounding speakers to say the least. They are big, but I see why. I currently have them powered by a amplifier supplying 170w at 6 ohms. The mids and highs are excellent. I do feel like the mid-bass, bass department is lacking any punch. No deep lows are showing themselves. I do have a nice subwoofer to compensate but still feel like the lows are not there especially with two channel music, rock, bass lines, etc. Maybe I am not feeding them enough power? I have also read that the Salons really dont show their magic until you start to turn them up. The room they are in is medium in size and decent for sound.

Thanks again,

Nick..
"no deep lows". Are you using bass management? If not, the low bass from the Salons is competing with the low bass from the subwoofer and who knows what is happening at any given frequency. Add to this the room modes and what you hear is a lottery. The only certain way to know what is going on is to do some measurements.

170w at 6 ohms is fine for moderate listening levels, but may have trouble in crescendos or any high level listening. The impedance of the Salon is nominally 6 ohms, but it drops to 3 ohms, according to the specifications. If your power amp cannot supply enough current for this low impedance it may "complain" in some fashion.

All loudspeakers sound better at higher sound levels because we humans hear more of the low bass (the equal loudness contours) and more of the timbral and spatial subtleties rise above the hearing threshold.
John Schuermann and Aja like this.
Floyd Toole is offline  
post #11547 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 02:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 1312
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I know the Benchmark AHB2 is good, but has anyone tried a Sanders Magtech? That is/was on my short list, Roger lives an hour or two away, and I've admired his stuff for ages.

Still vacillating on amps...
Don, I urge you to consider a Bryston 4B3 (cubed). 300W/8 ohms and 500W/4 ohms.

I have not heard the cubed series yet, but have used Bryston amps for decades. Now using a 3B SST2 for my F208's. I just can't say enough good about the amps and the company.
Rex Anderson is offline  
post #11548 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 03:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,420
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3313 Post(s)
Liked: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Don, I urge you to consider a Bryston 4B3 (cubed). 300W/8 ohms and 500W/4 ohms.

I have not heard the cubed series yet, but have used Bryston amps for decades. Now using a 3B SST2 for my F208's. I just can't say enough good about the amps and the company.
Good advice. I have long (like, decades) been an admirer of Bryston amps. I have had several in my system for short periods but never actually owned one. Assuming they still have their 20-year warranty and pro-level build quality they would be an excellent choice. My short list actually began with Bryston and Sanders, but then I heard about the new ATI amps, Benchmark, etc. Some of the brands I respected in the past have gotten too pricey for me, or too hard to find, brands like Boulder, D'Agostino, Krell, Levinson, even Pass... Classe is gone now, I think, though the last time I heard one it did not stand out from the pack to me. I have owned ARC tube gear, and tubes hold a fond place in my heart (ears?), but for a single amp only SS has the power and low output impedance within my price range.

For decades I have owned Magnepans, which other than their 4-ohm impedance and low sensitivity, are a pretty benign load. Not so the Salon2's, and I have thought to pass on my Emotiva XPA-2 (Gen1 version) to my younger son with my Maggies, so am thinking hard about a new amplifier. I would retain the Emotiva XPA-5 for center and surrounds (at least that's my plan for now). I had considered a 6BSST for the front line (Salon2's, Voice2) but at $9k is/was out of my price range. I will probably just get a stereo amp and stick with the scheme I have now. A 4B3 would be nice. Any of these amps in the $5k-$6k range give me pause; not out of line for today's world, but a world away from what I am used to paying for good gear.

The problem with amps today is that there are so many good ones to choose from, and it is difficult to listen and compare the way I did when I worked "in the biz" so long ago.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
post #11549 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 04:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 5,946
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 552 Post(s)
Liked: 546
Don, are you looking at the ATI NCore or Signature or both?
If you're considering the Sanders at $5500, just speaking for myself I would be looking seriously at the ATI 6002.

Seems that you're good friends with Sanders so an in-home audition would certainly be worthwhile.
That's an interesting amp he makes.

 
Milt99 is offline  
post #11550 of 16553 Old 03-30-2018, 05:27 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,420
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3313 Post(s)
Liked: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Don, are you looking at the ATI NCore or Signature or both?
If you're considering the Sanders at $5500, just speaking for myself I would be looking seriously at the ATI 6002.

Seems that you're good friends with Sanders so an in-home audition would certainly be worthwhile.
That's an interesting amp he makes.
Thanks, again something I should consider. I was thinking NCore though at this price level the Signature is not out of reach. The bar keeps raising...

Not really good friends with Roger, more acquaintances, but I've known him (if not he me) on and off since the 1980's. He was in Georgia then IIRC. His ESLs were on my short list and had not the Revels come up probably would have been my next speakers. The amp has gotten very good reviews and a number of awards so I've been thinking about it for a while. He does offer a 30-day in-home trial and that is appealing. I am not really an amp guy but thinking it may be time to consider an update if not upgrade from my XPA-2, especially if it goes to my son so I'll need something (college is over, last summer's AK trip was wife's dream, it's Dad's turn!)

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
F206 , F208 , Revel

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off