Revel Owners Thread - Page 396 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11851 of 16513 Old 04-20-2018, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmnut View Post
IMO, auditioning speakers anywhere but in YOUR room isn't a fair test. The room's acoustic signature, and positioning of the speaker and the listener are so important that you won't be comparing apples to apples in different dealer showrooms. You need to evaluate them all in your own listening space. That means you'll need to make your purchases from places that allow returns and a full refund after a reasonable evaluation period. Keep in mind that no purchase has been made until the return period has expired, so you're not risking anything except return shipping fees, which is a small price to pay for ensuring you picked the right speaker that you'll be living with for (hopefully) many years. Most of your "narrowing down" can be done through online research, which should lead to no more than 2 or 3 speakers to be compared in-home. If you can compare them blind, even better.
I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here Nut.
While it may be optimal to audition in your home, it's a pita especially of you're talking large floor standers.
I know, I've done it.

The B&M dealers in my area all have decent to fantastic treated rooms.
In my experience, speakers aren't going to sprout horns and projectile vomit between a dealer showroom & my living room or vice versa.
Generally speaking unless you have a really lousy listening room\configuration they're going to overall sound better in the living room.
Plus in the showroom you're going to be able to quickly A/B different speakers which is really the key in auditioning, imo.

With ID speakers you obviously have no choice but in-home.
Just my 2 cents.
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post #11852 of 16513 Old 04-20-2018, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-Of-Phase View Post
I'll have to put that speaker on my list for a possible eBay purchase. I used to own the B&W 801 Matrix Series II. Now I wish I hadn't sold them. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]
I had B&W 801F's for many years. Sold them for Dunlavy SC-V's. Sold those for Revel F208's. I'm happiest with the Revels.
The Dunlavy’s were my dream speakers but by the time I graduated college and wanted to buy a pair they went out of business. The SC IV was the one I auditioned and fell in love with. I currently have the F208s as well and am glad they are somewhat comparable.

I’m sure the scale and dynamics of the Dunlavy’s can’t be equaled by the F208.
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post #11853 of 16513 Old 04-20-2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lsdec2 View Post
The Dunlavy’s were my dream speakers but by the time I graduated college and wanted to buy a pair they went out of business. The SC IV was the one I auditioned and fell in love with. I currently have the F208s as well and am glad they are somewhat comparable.

I’m sure the scale and dynamics of the Dunlavy’s can’t be equaled by the F208.
Dunlavy SC-V's are awesome. They weigh over 300 lbs each and are over 6' tall. I had a perfect room for them (custom designed and treated). They have bass slam and as you say, scale and dynamics that the F208's do not have. They measure well with Dunlavy's measurements, but I doubt they would do as well in the Harman spin-o-rama. First order crossover, less than stellar drivers and crossovers, felt pads for diffraction control. Not even close to the technology in the Salon2.

I mixed a ton of records (CD's) on them and they translated extremely well.

I sort of miss them but I rarely play loud these days and don't feel I need anything more than the F208's which are extremely well balanced and I know how they perform having seen the measurement data.

If I was still doing pro audio work, I'd have Salon2's. I'm enjoying retirement, not focusing on so many details and don't need to listen at 85 dB SPL or above many hours a day.
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Last edited by Rex Anderson; 04-21-2018 at 07:43 AM.
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post #11854 of 16513 Old 04-21-2018, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-Of-Phase View Post
I think it was the Infinity IL60 which is out of production.
I have a pair as well. They have been my primary music and HT speakers for 14 years. I don't know how this graph would compare with what Harman does today, but this is one for the IL60 done by Harman many years ago. It seems similar.
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Infinity Compositions Overture 3
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Infinity Reference R162

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post #11855 of 16513 Old 04-21-2018, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-Of-Phase View Post
I'll have to put that speaker on my list for a possible eBay purchase. I used to own the B&W 801 Matrix Series II. Now I wish I hadn't sold them.
The only drawback to them are the subwoofer amps. They’re getting to that age where you have to worry a bit about amp failures. I have the Intermezzo 4.1ts in my 2-channel setup, which are similar to the IL60s in design but with a solid aluminum chassis, a more powerful subwoofer amp, and at least a different midrange (not sure about other drivers or the crossover). They’re great speakers, but I know I’m on borrowed time with them.

I have the passive Interludes (IL40s and an IL36C) in my front HT stage and they’re amazing for the price I paid. The Infinity Interludes are really a steal for the performance you get for the prices they’re going for on the used market right now.

HT: Sony 940C, Oppo 203, Harman/Kardon DPR1001, Infinity Interlude IL40 x2, Infinity Interlude IL36C, Infinity MS-1 ii x2, Infinity MSW-1
Computer: Elac Uni-Fi UB5 x2, Elac Element EA101EQ integrated amp, SVS SB-12NSD
Dedicated 2-channel: Infinity Intermezzo 4.1t towers, Bluesound Node 2, Emotiva PT-100, Crown XLS 1502, Furman PL-8C
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post #11856 of 16513 Old 04-22-2018, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
The only drawback to them are the subwoofer amps. They’re getting to that age where you have to worry a bit about amp failures. I have the Intermezzo 4.1ts in my 2-channel setup, which are similar to the IL60s in design but with a solid aluminum chassis, a more powerful subwoofer amp...
The Intermezzo has a sealed acoustic suspension sub vs. the Interlude's ported design. That's how they made them look so sleek and why the amp needed to be more powerful. When the amps fail and can't be repaired there will be several possible workarounds, just no RABOS.

Infinity Compositions Overture 3
Infinity Interlude IL60
Infinity Reference R162
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post #11857 of 16513 Old 04-22-2018, 06:32 PM
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C208 vs Voice 2

I currently have salon2's for front. i am using m108 for surrounds and back surrounds. I am debating whether its worth getting voice 2 or c208. Any opinions or suggestions?
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post #11858 of 16513 Old 04-22-2018, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew1204 View Post
I am currently considering the following speakers:

Revel F208 pair R&L
Revel C208 center
Revel S206 side surrounds
Revel M105 rear surrounds

VS

JTR Speakers:

JTR 210RT - R&L
JTR 210RM - Center
JTR 8 side - Surrounds
JTR 8 rear - Surrounds

VS

Tekton Design (pretty ugly for a living room)

Double Impact SE - R&L
Double Impact - Oversize Center (7 tweeters)
Double Impact - Surrounds
Double Impact - Rear Surrounds

VS

Legacy Audio

Focus SE / XD - R&L
MARQUIS XD - Center
Studio HD - Side Surrounds
Studio HD - Rear Surrounds

VS

Revel Salon2's /
or the new F228Be

VS

Paradigm Persona series 7F or 5F

VS

Other suggestions?

This is mainly going to be for movies. I would say approximately 80/20 or 70/30 movies / music. Might listen to more music after upgrading! I generally have the volume between -5 to -10 for movies and about the same for music. For music I listen to electronic, hip hop & rap, country and rock. From time to time I do enjoy classical piano.

I know I have written down some $2,000 speakers as well as some $6,500 each speakers. I would prefer to get 95% of the performance for less money if possible. I guess I am kind of looking for the best "do it all" speaker setup that can crush and slam movies with enveloping sound and imaging like a 3D bubble-- but then also be great to listen with music. I am going to upgrade the front stage first, maybe even just the R&L depending on price and then build from there.

The Revels don't seem very sensitive compared to the others so I think I would go with a D-sonic amp of 400wpc x 7 to power them if I went that route. Would an Emotiva XPA-7 with 200wpc be enough? The D-sonic is only $1,000 more for 2x the power.

I currently have a 7.1 system with Klipsch RF280 R&L and 440c center, 250s (bipole) as surrounds and 160m as rear surrounds. I will be doing 4 ceiling atmos eventually with probably either Revel c783 or 583, KEF Ci200QR or RSL C34E.

I would prefer if recommended towers were less than 60 inches or so tall, and a center not higher than 14 inches. I really wanted to checkout Triad Platinum in room series but their center is 17 inches high which would make my TV raised pretty high... 17 inch high center is doable if it would be "worth it." The towers will be going close to the side and rear walls (within 6 inches to the side and maybe a foot to the rear). I just can't have a massive 16x40 inch speaker in my living room as a center channel.

These will go in a large 7500ft3 living room room. The room is that large, but there is a dropdown area (4 inch drop about a 13x15 rectangle) to where the sofas are setup in an L shape and then the TV in front about 13 feet away from the MLP. So the main listening is in this smaller compartment of the larger room.

I just got the denon 4400 today and used their new room correction app and it made a HUGE difference and was like an upgrade in itself so I'm excited to see the difference between Klipsch and other (very) high end speakers.

I also have a cap 1400 from JTR which I love and will either add a second 1400 or upgrade to dual 2400s.

Whew that was a lot to type out. I may make this a separate thread to get other opinions as well but wanted to see what you guys thought

EDIT: I am now also considering used Revel Salon2's / or the new F228Be or Paradigm Persona 7f or 5f
I was able to hear most of those speakers, i.e., the towers, not the surrounds, at AXPONA last weekend. They are all great speakers, but simply have different "house" sounds. I loved the Paradigm Persona 5F and the Revel 228Be sounded fantastic, but I chalk some of that up to the awesome Mark Levinson 585 integrated amp powering the 228s. The new Magico A3 at $9800 also sounded excellent, but they may not have the same amount of matching center and surround speakers you are looking for.

But, since you indicated that this would be mostly for movies, and I assume you will be using a sub or two, I'm not sure you need front L/R speakers as large as you listed. Now, for the center speakers, I would like the biggest and best units that I could afford, as most of the sound content in movies is in the center channel.

For example, in the Legacy Audio line, you could go with Signature SE, instead of the Focus SE and save about $3.5K, but still use the Marquis XD center channel. But with Revel, unfortunately, the F206 is way smaller than the F208, so it may be too small. Of course, the Salon 2s are awesome, but much pricier than some of your other options. With Paradigm Persona, the 3F is not that much smaller than the 5F, so a set of 3F might be fine when using subs.

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MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver, Sherbourn 5/1500A 5-channel amp, Oppo BDP-83 Universal Disc Player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.
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post #11859 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acmcool View Post
I currently have salon2's for front. i am using m108 for surrounds and back surrounds. I am debating whether its worth getting voice 2 or c208. Any opinions or suggestions?
The voice 2 is an awesome speaker and the obvious match for the Salons. That said, it is also about four times the price of the C208 which is also a great speaker. I am using the C208 with my Studio 2s and it is a great match sonically. If your main usage trends mostly 2 channel, go for the C208, but if movies are a big part of your entertainment diet and you can afford it, the Voice 2 is the way to go.
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post #11860 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
The only drawback to them are the subwoofer amps. They’re getting to that age where you have to worry a bit about amp failures. I have the Intermezzo 4.1ts in my 2-channel setup, which are similar to the IL60s in design but with a solid aluminum chassis, a more powerful subwoofer amp, and at least a different midrange (not sure about other drivers or the crossover). They’re great speakers, but I know I’m on borrowed time with them.

I have the passive Interludes (IL40s and an IL36C) in my front HT stage and they’re amazing for the price I paid. The Infinity Interludes are really a steal for the performance you get for the prices they’re going for on the used market right now.
I appreciate the info Tute, thanks.
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post #11861 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acmcool View Post
I currently have salon2's for front. i am using m108 for surrounds and back surrounds. I am debating whether its worth getting voice 2 or c208. Any opinions or suggestions?
I am not sure the question(s):

If the question is if you should add a center, I am firmly in the "yes, center" camp. I have run phantom and with center speaker, and much prefer having the physical speaker, even when it is just me listening. If there are others on the couch, the center becomes even more important for anchoring the soundstage IME/IMO. There are threads about using phantom center imaging and some folk think it best, but I have always found it lacking.

The question of C208 vs. Voice2 is trickier on paper. I'm interesting in hearing from those who have heard both; I have not. The C208 uses aluminum drivers instead of the beryllium tweeter and titanium mid/bass drivers found in the Voice2. The stiffer, lighter Voice2 driver cones should lead to less distortion and breakup at higher frequencies and amplitudes. Spec-wise, the C208 actually plays a little deeper (-3 dB at 50 Hz vs. 60 Hz for the Voice2), has a smaller midrange driver (with higher crossover frequencies), and is a little smaller and lighter than the Voice2. Since all Revel speakers are "voiced" to the same standard I'd expect them to sound very similar. The 4:1 price differential is a biggie, natch. I thought about the C208 when I bought my Salon2's but ultimately decided they would likely be my last major speaker purchase and went all-in Ultima. I got nice matching cabinets and all that jazz, which was not a big consideration but is nice to have.

Would I hear a difference? Hard to say, maybe not -- in discussing with a few people, they said the same thing about the Voice2 as others have said repeatedly when comparing the Ultima to Performa series: smoother highs, bit more dynamic range, very similar most of the time. Somewhere in this thread (I think) one person commented the jump from F208's to Salon2's was bigger than the jump from C208 to Voice2, i.e. the Voice2 was closer in sound to the C208 than the Salon2's sound to the F208's, but seeing the towers that makes sense to me. If I could afford the Voice2 and wanted to match the line and finish it would certainly be (and was) my choice, but I really doubt I'd notice a significant sonic difference unless they were side by side. Could be wrong...
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post #11862 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 01:39 PM
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Just FYI, there's a Voice2 for sale on US Audio Mart for about half off new, and a C208 on Audiogon for the price of a pair of M105's.

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post #11863 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 03:21 PM
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Own 2 Voice2s and a C208, have commented in the past on this subject. I struggled with the C208 in a smaller room with hard walls, not an ideal room.
What to do? Borrowed the Voice2 from my HT and brought it up to the challenged room. The Voice2 plays smoothly and am most pleased.
Moving the C208 to a quiter room with carpeting made it more acceptable. If it wasn't a room i use for experimentation, might go for another Voice2.
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post #11864 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 03:33 PM
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And if you think having two Voice2’s is bitchin’, just remember, the second one is in his @Orbitron kitchen!...
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post #11865 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 04:33 PM
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Revel notes the Voice2 can serve as all three LCR speakers if you so choose...
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #11866 of 16513 Old 04-23-2018, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
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There's also on for sale in the Dealer's Classified section right here on AVS
That mahogany sure looks good! It's such a shame it's not available for the Performa3's. Good deal on a low mileage Voice2!
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post #11867 of 16513 Old 04-24-2018, 10:32 AM
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My system:
AVR: Anthem mrx 720
Power amp: Parasound A31, Nordacoustics Nord One MP NC252 4 250W Channels
front: Revel Performa3 F208
center: Revel Performa3 C208
surround: 4 Revel Concerta2 S16
TV: 65 LG OLED C7 4K
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post #11868 of 16513 Old 04-24-2018, 11:48 AM
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My system:
AVR: Anthem mrx 720
Power amp: Parasound A31, Nordacoustics Nord One MP NC252 4 250W Channels
front: Revel Performa3 F208
center: Revel Performa3 C208
surround: 4 Revel Concerta2 S16
TV: 65 LG OLED C7 4K
Very nice setup! I would not correct above ~300-400hz with ARC btw.
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post #11869 of 16513 Old 04-24-2018, 03:51 PM
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Hi Steven!

Tried to find measurements on the KEF R105/3 - do you have a reference / link?

KEF makes a good speaker, but their UniQ design suffers from IM distortion (which has been discussed here previously, and why it does not do as well as the Revels when shot out double blind).

If you have a source be curious to see it.
http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/k...-105-3-13.html This is what I found with a google search. Audio magazine did a review 'back in the day' and I had both the 107/2 and 105/3 at the same time and I agree the distortion is audible with the uniq driver, especially the 2nd version that had little of the science put into the new models, that said they can be placed and with component matching(probably less important now as 25 years ago)sound amazing. My last 3 pair of speakers have been Revel yet I have trouble using words like best when describing hifi. I prefer the ease of placement for outstanding imaging kef's offer, I prefer revels bass.

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post #11870 of 16513 Old 04-24-2018, 04:13 PM
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Honestly, is there ANY speaker on the market that bests the Salon2 in overall sound quality?

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post #11871 of 16513 Old 04-24-2018, 04:42 PM
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Honestly, is there ANY speaker on the market that bests the Salon2 in overall sound quality?
Same could be asked with the Voice2.
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post #11872 of 16513 Old 04-24-2018, 06:33 PM
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Honestly, is there ANY speaker on the market that bests the Salon2 in overall sound quality?
So far, honestly, none. Of course Harman has not tested every speaker ever made, but just about any speaker you might think would give it a run for its money has been put through testing against it.

Including Harman's own JBL M2, which I am happy to say we were the ones to do it!
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post #11873 of 16513 Old 04-24-2018, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
So far, honestly, none. Of course Harman has not tested every speaker ever made, but just about any speaker you might think would give it a run for its money has been put through testing against it.

Including Harman's own JBL M2, which I am happy to say we were the ones to do it!
BAH! I want a bumber sticker made that say's "My speaker beat up your Salon 2 "

Haha! Just kidding
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post #11874 of 16513 Old 04-25-2018, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
So far, honestly, none. Of course Harman has not tested every speaker ever made, but just about any speaker you might think would give it a run for its money has been put through testing against it.

Including Harman's own JBL M2, which I am happy to say we were the ones to do it!

But that aint the best JBL speaker is it? haven't the Everest or the K2 beaten the Salon2:s?

//Mike
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post #11875 of 16513 Old 04-25-2018, 03:04 AM
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But that aint the best JBL speaker is it? haven't the Everest or the K2 beaten the Salon2:s?

//Mike
The M2 is much ahead of the K2 and Everest. Doesn't look as pretty though.
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post #11876 of 16513 Old 04-25-2018, 04:18 AM
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Honestly, is there ANY speaker on the market that bests the Salon2 in overall sound quality?
I’m a huge Salon fan, but I would venture to guess that the best offerings from Wilson, Vivid, Rockport and Magico etc exceed what the Revels can do. But this would be at multiples of the Salon’s cost of course. At their price (and likely a bit beyond) they are still in a class of their own. I would still love to see what Kevin V and company could do as a modern all out assault with new technology available and an unlimited budget. I’m thinking something likely with active amplification (to power those nasty-to-drive woofer sections at the very least) and built in room correction like Lyngdorf or Wavelet. I also think this would mean moving on from MDF as a cabinet choice to some of the higher end options the other companies mentioned utilize.

Lumin T1 | Vitus RI-100 | Revel Ultima Studio2 | JL Audio: F110(2) & F112
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post #11877 of 16513 Old 04-25-2018, 05:11 AM
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I’m a huge Salon fan, but I would venture to guess that the best offerings from Wilson, Vivid, Rockport and Magico etc exceed what the Revels can do. But this would be at multiples of the Salon’s cost of course. At their price (and likely a bit beyond) they are still in a class of their own. I would still love to see what Kevin V and company could do as a modern all out assault with new technology available and an unlimited budget. I’m thinking something likely with active amplification (to power those nasty-to-drive woofer sections at the very least) and built in room correction like Lyngdorf or Wavelet. I also think this would mean moving on from MDF as a cabinet choice to some of the higher end options the other companies mentioned utilize.
Pretty sure the Salon2 beat at least two top models of the brands mentioned in their blind test. I also believe the Ultima2 series was in fact the best that they could do at the time - and that the reason there is not yet an Ultima3 series, is that so far the 10 year old 2 series remains unbeaten. I'm quite sure they could by now improve on it .. but as it remains unbeaten, and sells well (I believe).. there's simply little to gain.
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post #11878 of 16513 Old 04-25-2018, 11:24 AM
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Couple of comments on the above -

The Salon2 went up against a couple of massively more expensive Wilson speakers in the MLL in August 2015 and "mopped the floor" with them. From my discussions with those that ran the test, it wasn't even close.

Along the lines of what TimVG mentioned, one of the other brands listed also lost to one of the other, lower end Revels recently.

I've had conversations with some at Revel about what they would change with any Salon3. Comments were along the lines of "well, we could tweak this little thing here, or chase down this element here," but the overall consensus was that it would be a major investment of R&D to bring about only a minor improvement.

As Dr. Toole has said numerous times, we already know what makes a good sounding loudspeaker. The best sounding speakers simply follow this science. Another company can throw one gazillion dollars at the most esoteric design and materials in the world, but if they aren't paying attention to the science, the result is not likely to be a good sounding loudspeaker.

BTW, there are some Wilson measurements on the soundstage.com speaker measurements page. Watt Puppy 8:



Listening Window:



I'll see if I can track down the model #, but I believe the Wilson tested back in 2015 was several orders of magnitude more expensive than the Watt Puppy 8 shown above. I don't really follow the Wilson line - maybe someone else knows their flagship.

Harman (and NRC) listening tests have shown that the higher one gets in price point (especially over the $5K mark), the less and less correlation there is between cost and sound quality.

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post #11879 of 16513 Old 04-25-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by miike88 View Post
But that aint the best JBL speaker is it? haven't the Everest or the K2 beaten the Salon2:s?

//Mike
The Everest and K2 would beat the Salon2 in pure output, that's for sure But they don't measure quite as well as the M2 or the Salon2. In controlled conditions, my bet would still be on the Salon2 or M2 to come out on top.

I don't know that Harman has ever put the Salon2 against the Everest or K2 in the MLL.
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post #11880 of 16513 Old 04-25-2018, 11:56 AM
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I also keep hearing about this IM distortion people are talking about with KEF which really is misinformation. It only happens to the 2 way coaxial speakers for one so towers or 3 way bookshelves won't have the problem since the bass is handled with separate drivers. Even in a 2 way, it only happens running them full range (which no one does) and loud with bass heavy tracks. Run them with a crossover and you're fine. If you check measurements on soundstage.com you'll see all bookshelf speakers, including Revel, have much higher distortion below 100Hz so you really want to use a sub or 2 with any bookshelf speaker, or really any speaker for that matter.
Actually, I appreciate being called out if one thinks I am spreading misinformation - if this is in fact true, I want to be able to correct the record. In the case of KEF and IM distortion, I thought it best to reach out to Harman and see if I was representing things properly. Got this detailed response, which is find to be quite fair and reasoned. This has to do with the IM distortion we heard clearly demonstrated at Harman, and the particular KEF model used against the M16 Concerta2 bookshelf in the double blinds:

Hi John,

The poster brings up valid concerns. Great questions!

We merely made some measurements/observations. The statistical listening test results rated the speaker lower than the Spinorama measurements would have rated it. Since the Spinorama statistically correlates highly (0.86) to listener preference we felt the need to investigate. Our intention was not to bash the KEF, but to discover which measurement might explain the discrepancy. To be completely correct, we have not studied the issue sufficiently to say with absolute certainty that IMD due to the coaxial alignment is the definitive cause. However, the evidence, meager though it may be, does support this.

KEF describe the bookshelf speakers as suitable as standalone mains and specify frequency response to 42Hz, max SPL as 110dB and recommend up to 120W amplifier. Although KEF do not specify how to interpret this, ANSI/CTA426B would interpret 120W amplifier power as 22Vrms max input with 6dB crest factor. (specs below from the KEF website).

However, it is not our intention to abuse the DUTs. We only ran the IMD test up to 8V (~99dB), not 22V, so well within the operational range. Instead of picking the worst case bass frequency for each speaker, we specifically set the bass tone to 90Hz. This was well within the rated operational parameters of all the speaker models; and 90Hz is above the standard (80Hz) electronic crossover to a subwoofer (i.e.: this will happen even if the customer uses a subwoofer!). Incidentally 90Hz was the worst case bass frequency for the Revel, but not the KEF. So, I feel what we did was more than a fair replication of real-world conditions. At 5.67V (4W ~93dB nominal) the KEF has 16% IMD in the voice sweep, 23% at 8V. When listening to this test, the IMD is clearly audible, even 5%. Hence we use it as a demo. Not to bash, but to educate. When the IMD is heard in this way, it is very compelling to accept that this could cause reduced preference by listeners. Listening corroborates the IMD test data.

The poster is correct that this effect will probably be mitigated in a 3-way system. The higher the crossover frequency and more limited the frequency range, the less cone movement and the less IMD. There are other mitigation techniques. But that is what they are. IMD is inherent to all drivers and, while it may be caused by many factors, most are a function of excursion. To be clear, we cannot say for certain whether the cone or some other aspect of the midrange is responsible for the IMD. As interesting as this puzzle is, there is simply no time to troubleshoot another company’s speaker. KEF have good engineers, maybe they will research it.

To put this into perspective, the real worst case is not the KEF, but the full range drivers found in cheap portable speakers (and some high end audiophile speakers). The more bass, the more excursion, the more IMD.

I’d welcome actual data that might support an opposing view, but likely all you will get is the opposing opinion.


From the KEF website:



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