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post #11881 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 01:16 PM
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Thanks for reaching out the Revel John, that's actually very useful information on IMD distortion, there isn't much out there about it. And I wasn't meaning to call you out but now other people are starting to say that all KEF speakers have high IMD distortion which isn't really true. It's true in a 2 way when listening loud and running full range or with a crossover under 90Hz but those are pretty big caveats in my opinion.

My response to the email would be that when you're getting into the 90db range and the IMD distortion creeps up, it's time to go to towers though. I personally listen in the 75-85db range at the absolute loudest so maybe that's why I have found bookshelf size speakers are fine for me, I also still have excellent hearing so I'm sure that has something to do with not listening as loud as some people. I'm also a proponent of higher crossover frequencies between 100-120Hz when using a 2nd order slope which alleviates these distortion issues with smaller speakers. So for these reasons maybe it hasn't been an issue for me, it's all about making the system as a whole sound best, if I had big towers I would most likely cross them over lower to not waste the bass capabilities of them.

It's also very curious that they chose the Kef Q300 to compare in the double blind test and not the R100 that I previously speculated considering the price point. The kef Q300 had an MSRP of 649.99 and most people who have heard it and the lower Q100 thought the smaller one sounded better due to better integration of drivers. I still like the idea of double blind testing product against others but in this case it seems like they cherry-picked a model they knew they could easily beat, so I would take the results with a grain of salt.

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post #11882 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 01:43 PM
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Thanks for reaching out the Revel John, that's actually very useful information on IMD distortion, there isn't much out there about it. And I wasn't meaning to call you out but now other people are starting to say that all KEF speakers have high IMD distortion which isn't really true. It's true in a 2 way when listening loud and running full range or with a crossover under 90Hz but those are pretty big caveats in my opinion.

My response to the email would be that when you're getting into the 90db range and the IMD distortion creeps up, it's time to go to towers though. I personally listen in the 75-85db range at the absolute loudest so maybe that's why I have found bookshelf size speakers are fine for me, I also still have excellent hearing so I'm sure that has something to do with not listening as loud as some people. I'm also a proponent of higher crossover frequencies between 100-120Hz when using a 2nd order slope which alleviates these distortion issues with smaller speakers. So for these reasons maybe it hasn't been an issue for me, it's all about making the system as a whole sound best, if I had big towers I would most likely cross them over lower to not waste the bass capabilities of them.

It's also very curious that they chose the Kef Q300 to compare in the double blind test and not the R100 that I previously speculated considering the price point. The kef Q300 had an MSRP of 649.99 and most people who have heard it and the lower Q100 thought the smaller one sounded better due to better integration of drivers. I still like the idea of double blind testing product against others but in this case it seems like they cherry-picked a model they knew they could easily beat, so I would take the results with a grain of salt.
Thanks for the response! Knowing the guys at Harman / Revel, though, I have never had any reason to doubt their good faith in choosing the speakers that go into testing. Of course, it's not possible to test every single speaker on the market. But I can say that the KEF model we are discussing is not the only KEF speaker to go into the MLL, it's just the one that was used for instructive purposes during the Harman Academy tour. As was pointed out in my previous post, the idea was to demonstrate their testing procedures, and to illustrate the lengths they will go to to check what is measured vs. what is heard. The KEF had a good spin; therefore Harman went through extra steps to determine why it did not do better in the listening tests. That was the point of the post, and the test.

Both times I've been at Harman I've seen the long hallway filled with speakers that have been put into the MLL - just about every brand you can imagine. Some time I'd like to stop and just peruse the different models. Unfortunately, each time we've breezed past them on the way to the next part of the tour (there's a TON to see and hear in the two days you are at the Academy).

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post #11883 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 01:56 PM
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Hmmm... just looking at the R100 - at $1700 per pair initial list price, and considering the finishes, etc - this would have been a matchup for the Revel M105 ($1500 per pair) or M106 ($2K per pair). The M16 is an entry level bookshelf from Revel.

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post #11884 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 02:38 PM
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Hmmm... just looking at the R100 - at $1700 per pair initial list price, and considering the finishes, etc - this would have been a matchup for the Revel M105 ($1500 per pair) or M106 ($2K per pair). The M16 is an entry level bookshelf from Revel.
The R100 was 1199.99 as long as I remember and regularly goes on sale for 799.99, so it is higher in price than the M16 but they do say they beat speakers at up to double their msrp so I don't think it's unfair. It's possible they wanted to compare apples to apples as far as the 6.5" driver size but in doing so they picked a model that doesn't sound as good as the Q100 to most people who have heard them. The LS50 and M105 are a close match in price and driver size and would be a good shootout to do, I may still do that someday if I can find some used M105's.
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post #11885 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 03:12 PM
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The R100 was 1199.99 as long as I remember and regularly goes on sale for 799.99, so it is higher in price than the M16 but they do say they beat speakers at up to double their msrp so I don't think it's unfair. It's possible they wanted to compare apples to apples as far as the 6.5" driver size but in doing so they picked a model that doesn't sound as good as the Q100 to most people who have heard them. The LS50 and M105 are a close match in price and driver size and would be a good shootout to do, I may still do that someday if I can find some used M105's.
The other factor with the KEF uniQ designs has to do with off-axis directivity. According to their own published spinorama on a current floor stander - I forget the model # - the off axis output declines at a faster rate than typical Revels. It is smooth but downward tilted. That will not flatter the sound in normally reflective rooms.

RE: that's true, typically, at up to twice the price point. In the case of the Performa3 and Ultima2 series, it has often been at many many times the price point. The Salon2 has gone up against speakers at $150K per pair. However, it's still true that Harman will pick speakers typically within the same category (entry level / mid-level / high end) when doing their validation tests. And of course no one has time to go through every manufacturer's catalog

And, as has been stated numerous times, the Spins can usually predict right away what's a worthy competitor and what isn't. I don't have Spins on the R100, but there are the NRC measurements on Soundstage

Soundstage measurements, R100:



Listening window:



Soundstage measurements M106:



Listening window:



None of this is meant to bash KEF in the slightest - they make a good speaker and their models are well-regarded by Harman engineers (hence the previously quoted statement). And the KEF measurements above show good performance.

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post #11886 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 05:08 PM
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John, I agree the M106 has better looking spins than the r100 but if you listened back and forth you'd hear there is something natural sounding about a coaxial driver. I'm not exactly sure what it is, it could be the point source qualities or the time alignment of the coaxial driver, but there is something natural about everything coming from 1 point, probably since that's more accurate of real life sounds. Most people don't even realize it but it's very obvious if you A/B back and forth.

Also, speaking of measurements, most people seem to ignore vertical off-axis response and there isn't much research on the subject. All I could find in Toole's latest Sound Reproduction book is a small study that stated that horizontal reflections were perceived as making the music more spacious and open while vertical reflections were perceived negatively as a timbre change. Considering most speakers have a large suckout due to the driver spacing in the vertical direction, I would expect this conclusion but coaxial drivers have an even response in all directions so it seems to me that it would create the same spaciousness from vertical reflections as well. I try to equate speaker design philosophy with real life music production, which consists of sounds coming from a point source for the most part and reflections in all directions being close to the on axis sound, both of which the coaxial design excels at. I fully agree that there are limitations to the design as well, there are tradeoffs to any design.

I wasn't meaning to derail the thread too much but what I'm really trying to say is people should still audition different brands and not just assume Revel has done your homework for you, especially when you have no idea what speakers they're actually comparing in the double blinds. I absolutely think Revel should be included in any audition since I feel they represent great values in all of their price points, but you still have to audition and the more speakers the better.
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post #11887 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 06:05 PM
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Honestly, is there ANY speaker on the market that bests the Salon2 in overall sound quality?
Actually, quite a few, as were seen at AXPONA recently. There are three pages of AVS blogs on AXPONA, but check out in particular the $295,000 Von Schweikert speakers near the bottom of this page. The big Wilson rooms were incredible as well. Now, I'm not talking measurements. I'm talking about the realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event. BTW, I thought and have written here on AVS that the new Revel F228Be sounded incredible at AXPONA, so I am not against Revel at all, but I have to be realistic.

https://www.avsforum.com/axpona-2018-...-recap-part-3/
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post #11888 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 06:23 PM
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John, I agree the M106 has better looking spins than the r100 but if you listened back and forth you'd hear there is something natural sounding about a coaxial driver. I'm not exactly sure what it is, it could be the point source qualities or the time alignment of the coaxial driver, but there is something natural about everything coming from 1 point, probably since that's more accurate of real life sounds. Most people don't even realize it but it's very obvious if you A/B back and forth.
You've raised some interesting points in your posts, worthy of consideration for sure. But by the same token, hopefully you're keenly aware of the problematic nature in making such matter-of-fact statements about how natural or good something sounds given these impressions have been generated in a sighted manner. If you had been unaware of the speaker design philosophy or goals, without those visual design cues (coaxial, single point source, etc.) perhaps your impressions would have been somewhat (or a lot) different. I know, I know, you state that it's "very obvious", but nevertheless, I have to wonder.
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post #11889 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 06:41 PM
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Actually, quite a few, as were seen at AXPONA recently. There are three pages of AVS blogs on AXPONA, but check out in particular the $295,000 Von Schweikert speakers near the bottom of this page. The big Wilson rooms were incredible as well. Now, I'm not talking measurements. I'm talking about the realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event. BTW, I thought and have written here on AVS that the new Revel F228Be sounded incredible at AXPONA, so I am not against Revel at all, but I have to be realistic.

https://www.avsforum.com/axpona-2018-...-recap-part-3/
Here again, referring back to my previous post, this may or may not be true that these other speakers are besting the Revel F228Be's on a preference basis given the non-neutral basis of those comparisons, i.e., sighted, with different music, in different rooms and at different times.

Although, perhaps you're not even going that far. Are you stating that these other speakers are bettering these Revels specifically at the, "realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event", but without necessarily drawing the larger conclusion that those other speakers would also be preferred over the Revels in general, for all types of music?


Btw, I'm not a Revel owner, just performing a little devil's advocacy here.
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post #11890 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 07:17 PM
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You've raised some interesting points in your posts, worthy of consideration for sure. But by the same token, hopefully you're keenly aware of the problematic nature in making such matter-of-fact statements about how natural or good something sounds given these impressions have been generated in a sighted manner. If you had been unaware of the speaker design philosophy or goals, without those visual design cues (coaxial, single point source, etc.) perhaps your impressions would have been somewhat (or a lot) different. I know, I know, you state that it's "very obvious", but nevertheless, I have to wonder.
This is true, I always try to be aware of bias but I'm definitely not anti-revel by any means, I actually thought my ideal setup would be 3 M105 across the front based on measurements and generally agreeing with the Harman design philosophy so if anything I wanted to like Revel but ultimately you have to audition a few speakers in your price range and let your ears decide. As far as sighted bias, I'm well aware it exists and if 2 speakers sound very similar, I'll usually go with the better looking ones. As far as the coaxial driver though, I didn't really have an opinion of them initially, I was going off of the sound. It wasn't until after I liked what I was hearing that I started to research why KEF went that way instead of the conventional arrangement of drivers. I certainly wouldn't choose LS50's because of their looks, there aren't many speakers I like worse than the piano black with gold driver LS50 lol...
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post #11891 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 08:35 PM
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Actually, quite a few, as were seen at AXPONA recently. There are three pages of AVS blogs on AXPONA, but check out in particular the $295,000 Von Schweikert speakers near the bottom of this page. The big Wilson rooms were incredible as well. Now, I'm not talking measurements. I'm talking about the realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event. BTW, I thought and have written here on AVS that the new Revel F228Be sounded incredible at AXPONA, so I am not against Revel at all, but I have to be realistic.

https://www.avsforum.com/axpona-2018-...-recap-part-3/
I don't understand how a speaker that clearly does not produce an accurate FR can somehow then "reastically recreate an actual acoustic event".

This does not compute for me. And this has NOTHING to do with Revel or any other specific brand. It applies to all speakers or devices of reproduction.

Sure, it's possible that a speaker that measures very accurately in some aspects might suck due to some problem in some other area. But a speaker cannot realistically reproduce an actual live event accurately if it is not accurate. Just is what it is.

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post #11892 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 09:19 PM
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I don't understand how a speaker that clearly does not produce an accurate FR can somehow then "reastically recreate an actual acoustic event".

This does not compute for me. And this has NOTHING to do with Revel or any other specific brand. It applies to all speakers or devices of reproduction.

Sure, it's possible that a speaker that measures very accurately in some aspects might suck due to some problem in some other area. But a speaker cannot realistically reproduce an actual live event accurately if it is not accurate. Just is what it is.
Well, first of all, some of the speakers they showed at AXPONA are demonstrated in and intended for very large rooms, and I don't know if you can even go by measurements as they are typically done. In some of these systems, the listening chairs were 20 feet or more away from the speakers. I imagine that most of these elite speaker systems measure pretty well, if not as precisely as the Salon 2. If they are only slightly less accurate than the Salon 2, but are playing in a huge room which would have its own effects on the sound, can one even notice a slight difference in frequency response ?

Now, with regard to the ability to convincingly replicate a recorded event, I would submit that that is about more than just frequency response. It involves the sense of scale, depth and width of the sound stage, placement of vocalists and instruments within the sound stage, attack on transients, the ability to move large volumes of air and pressurize a room, how natural high frequency instruments such as cymbals sound, etc.

I was not even aware that some of these massive speakers even existed, but when I heard those demos, I then understood why they cost what they do. If you haven't heard systems of this caliber, you don't have a frame of reference by which to compare something like the Salon 2 to them. Again, this is not a knock on the Salon 2, which is a great speaker and value, but the question was whether there was ANY speaker that bests the Salon 2 in overall sound quality. And it seems to me that there certainly are such speakers, when you are talking about huge listening environments. But if one has super golden ears and can discern slight deviations from precisely accurate frequency response, then one might still prefer a more accurate speaker over a larger design with more dynamic capabilities.
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post #11893 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 10:32 PM
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Actually, quite a few, as were seen at AXPONA recently. There are three pages of AVS blogs on AXPONA, but check out in particular the $295,000 Von Schweikert speakers near the bottom of this page. The big Wilson rooms were incredible as well. Now, I'm not talking measurements. I'm talking about the realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event. BTW, I thought and have written here on AVS that the new Revel F228Be sounded incredible at AXPONA, so I am not against Revel at all, but I have to be realistic.

https://www.avsforum.com/axpona-2018-...-recap-part-3/
Many, IMO, such as the Big Wilson Wamms, the Raidho, the ML13As, Von Schweikerts Ultra 11s, the $300 Elac B6.2 in the same size/shape room as the Revel 228s. As almost next door neighbors, I was back and forth between these two rooms several times. If I was stuck with a room close to this size, I would take the Elacs even if both the Revels and Elacs were free. As always YMMV

The Revels 228 were fine, but there was plenty of competition.

"Now, I'm not talking measurements. I'm talking about the realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event"

Absolutely agree. However, IMO, side to side tracking (or consistency) with regards to FR is very important or you'll have one very screwed up soundstage.
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post #11894 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 10:37 PM
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Here again, referring back to my previous post, this may or may not be true that these other speakers are besting the Revel F228Be's on a preference basis given the non-neutral basis of those comparisons, i.e., sighted, with different music, in different rooms and at different times.

Although, perhaps you're not even going that far. Are you stating that these other speakers are bettering these Revels specifically at the, "realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event", but without necessarily drawing the larger conclusion that those other speakers would also be preferred over the Revels in general, for all types of music?


Btw, I'm not a Revel owner, just performing a little devil's advocacy here.
What rooms did you like at the show?
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post #11895 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 10:46 PM
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I don't understand how a speaker that clearly does not produce an accurate FR can somehow then "reastically recreate an actual acoustic event".

This does not compute for me. And this has NOTHING to do with Revel or any other specific brand. It applies to all speakers or devices of reproduction.

Sure, it's possible that a speaker that measures very accurately in some aspects might suck due to some problem in some other area. But a speaker cannot realistically reproduce an actual live event accurately if it is not accurate. Just is what it is.
And "just what it is", IMO, isn't what it is. I'll ask you the same question ... what did you like at the show?

For example, the ML 15As and 11As sucked in the rooms they were in, but the 13As (in a much larger room) IMO did the best recreation of a live acoustical event I heard at the show, and didn't suck, although I would bet dollars to dognuts that they would 'measure' very similarly to the 11As and 15As.

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post #11896 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 10:51 PM
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Well, first of all, some of the speakers they showed at AXPONA are demonstrated in and intended for very large rooms, and I don't know if you can even go by measurements as they are typically done. In some of these systems, the listening chairs were 20 feet or more away from the speakers. I imagine that most of these elite speaker systems measure pretty well, if not as precisely as the Salon 2. If they are only slightly less accurate than the Salon 2, but are playing in a huge room which would have its own effects on the sound, can one even notice a slight difference in frequency response ?

Now, with regard to the ability to convincingly replicate a recorded event, I would submit that that is about more than just frequency response. It involves the sense of scale, depth and width of the sound stage, placement of vocalists and instruments within the sound stage, attack on transients, the ability to move large volumes of air and pressurize a room, how natural high frequency instruments such as cymbals sound, etc.

I was not even aware that some of these massive speakers even existed, but when I heard those demos, I then understood why they cost what they do. If you haven't heard systems of this caliber, you don't have a frame of reference by which to compare something like the Salon 2 to them. Again, this is not a knock on the Salon 2, which is a great speaker and value, but the question was whether there was ANY speaker that bests the Salon 2 in overall sound quality. And it seems to me that there certainly are such speakers, when you are talking about huge listening environments. But if one has super golden ears and can discern slight deviations from precisely accurate frequency response, then one might still prefer a more accurate speaker over a larger design with more dynamic capabilities.
Best post of the day. And not just because you're saying the exact same thing I've been saying for eons. You stated it better!

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post #11897 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 11:12 PM
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And "just what it is", IMO, isn't what it is. I'll ask you the same question ... what did you like at the show?

For example, the ML 15As and 11As sucked in the rooms they were in, but the 13As (in a much larger room) IMO did the best recreation of a live acoustical event I heard at the show, and didn't suck, although I would bet dollars to dognuts that they would 'measure' very similarly to the 11As and 15As.
Doesn't matter what I like, or you like. I was talking about accurate reproduction. That's independent of our opinions of what we think we hear.

There may be things we can't measure that impact SQ, but if important metrics we can measure are inaccurate, then its inaccurate, regardless of how good someone thinks it sounds.
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post #11898 of 16529 Old 04-25-2018, 11:28 PM
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Doesn't matter what I like, or you like. I was talking about accurate reproduction. That's independent of our opinions of what we think we hear.

There may be things we can't measure that impact SQ, but if important metrics we can measure are inaccurate, then its inaccurate, regardless of how good someone thinks it sounds.
"but if important metrics we can measure are inaccurate, then its inaccurate,"

But sounds more like real music, so I'll take it, and I'll leave you with your measurements. Absolute 'accuracy' with regards to just FR (other than side to side consistency) is down there at about number 10 on my list of aspects that are important. YMMV

Last edited by Scotth3886; 04-26-2018 at 01:18 AM.
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post #11899 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 02:01 AM
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Last summer I auditioned a pair of big German studio monitors, nice wood veneer and all.
I absolutely loved them in the audition, up to the point where I considered getting a pair of my own. They had depth, scale - clean, punchy bass, natural and coherent presentation .. I couldn't really find any flaws at the time. I was in awe!

Last month we held a blind test with 3 persons, with two models of the same German brand, and my JBL 708. We highpassed all speakers at 50hz to make sure one did not have an extension advantage over the other. The 708 won that blind test unanimously, it wasn't even close, much to everyone's surprise. I sent that report to John S. at the time who can confirm this.

The speaker that measured best, on and off axis, with the most behaved directivity properties, won - easily. It may be hard to accept for some of you, but it is what it is.

Things like resolution, scale, imaging, .. these are not things that can be designed into a loudspeaker. There is no magic ingredient. Just like a nice dinner, better ingredients potentially (!) allow for a better experience - if certain criteria are met first and foremost. No cone material or special cabinet can fix a direcivity issue for instance.
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post #11900 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 05:03 AM
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"but if important metrics we can measure are inaccurate, then its inaccurate,"

But sounds more like real music, so I'll take it, and I'll leave you with your measurements. Absolute 'accuracy' with regards to just FR (other than side to side consistency) is down there at about number 10 on my list of aspects that are important. YMMV
We have different priorities. It's all good.
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post #11901 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 05:40 AM
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We have different priorities. It's all good.
And the really important thing is that at least for the C-bus area I've found a pretty cool spot for some up close live music in Worthington, Ohio.

So my next idea for a get together will be




Camera phones aren't the greatest, but when I got back home and played this, it sound quite a bit like what I heard


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post #11902 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 05:49 AM
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Last summer I auditioned a pair of big German studio monitors, nice wood veneer and all.
I absolutely loved them in the audition, up to the point where I considered getting a pair of my own. They had depth, scale - clean, punchy bass, natural and coherent presentation .. I couldn't really find any flaws at the time. I was in awe!

Last month we held a blind test with 3 persons, with two models of the same German brand, and my JBL 708. We highpassed all speakers at 50hz to make sure one did not have an extension advantage over the other. The 708 won that blind test unanimously, it wasn't even close, much to everyone's surprise. I sent that report to John S. at the time who can confirm this.

The speaker that measured best, on and off axis, with the most behaved directivity properties, won - easily. It may be hard to accept for some of you, but it is what it is.

Things like resolution, scale, imaging, .. these are not things that can be designed into a loudspeaker. There is no magic ingredient. Just like a nice dinner, better ingredients potentially (!) allow for a better experience - if certain criteria are met first and foremost. No cone material or special cabinet can fix a direcivity issue for instance.
Did you do this as a mono, meaning one speakers at a time, contest or a stereo pair?
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post #11903 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 05:53 AM
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Did you do this as a mono, meaning one speakers at a time, contest or a stereo pair?
Test itself was performed in mono.

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post #11904 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 05:58 AM
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Test itself was performed in mono.

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All I needed to know. Thanks
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post #11905 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 06:11 AM
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All I needed to know. Thanks
FWIW after the test we did some sighted listening in stereo. Opinions remained consistent.
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Many, IMO, such as the Big Wilson Wamms, the Raidho, the ML13As, Von Schweikerts Ultra 11s, the $300 Elac B6.2 in the same size/shape room as the Revel 228s. As almost next door neighbors, I was back and forth between these two rooms several times. If I was stuck with a room close to this size, I would take the Elacs even if both the Revels and Elacs were free. As always YMMV

The Revels 228 were fine, but there was plenty of competition.

"Now, I'm not talking measurements. I'm talking about the realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event"

Absolutely agree. However, IMO, side to side tracking (or consistency) with regards to FR is very important or you'll have one very screwed up soundstage.
The $300 ELAC bookies compared well to the Revel 228 floorstander or are you saying it was in same size room and sounded good?
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post #11907 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 07:47 AM
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All I needed to know. Thanks
FWIW after the test we did some sighted listening in stereo. Opinions remained consistent.
What where the other speakers if you don't mind me asking
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post #11908 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 07:49 AM
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All I needed to know. Thanks
I'm shocked... just shocked!

We get it, you prefer analog, vinyl, panel speakers, and don't believe in double blind or mono tests (or scientific studies of audio equipment for that matter).

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post #11909 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
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Many, IMO, such as the Big Wilson Wamms, the Raidho, the ML13As, Von Schweikerts Ultra 11s, the $300 Elac B6.2 in the same size/shape room as the Revel 228s. As almost next door neighbors, I was back and forth between these two rooms several times. If I was stuck with a room close to this size, I would take the Elacs even if both the Revels and Elacs were free. As always YMMV

The Revels 228 were fine, but there was plenty of competition.

"Now, I'm not talking measurements. I'm talking about the realistic recreation of an actual acoustic event"

Absolutely agree. However, IMO, side to side tracking (or consistency) with regards to FR is very important or you'll have one very screwed up soundstage.
The $300 ELAC bookies compared well to the Revel 228 floorstander or are you saying it was in same size room and sounded good?

In that room (same size and shape for Revel 228s and the Elacs) I preferred the Elacs B6. 2s
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post #11910 of 16529 Old 04-26-2018, 08:00 AM
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The $300 ELAC bookies compared well to the Revel 228 floorstander or are you saying it was in same size room and sounded good?
I went into that room with the $300 ELACs and I thought they sounded very nice for inexpensive book shelf speakers. But the room that paired the Revel F228 with Mark Levinson 585 integrated amp sounded just awesome to me, at least on the content they played. I really liked the simplicity of the system, in that all it included was a streaming box, the 585, and the F228s. That room has me seriously looking at the 585 as an upgrade in my amplification.

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