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post #11971 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 12:47 AM
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Looks like Revel M126Be and F228Be are already available online on some sites.
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post #11972 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
I went into that room with the $300 ELACs and I thought they sounded very nice for inexpensive book shelf speakers. But the room that paired the Revel F228 with Mark Levinson 585 integrated amp sounded just awesome to me, at least on the content they played. I really liked the simplicity of the system, in that all it included was a streaming box, the 585, and the F228s. That room has me seriously looking at the 585 as an upgrade in my amplification.

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Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
That has me thinking, there's been a lot of talk about Harman's science-driven approach to speakers, what is their approach to amplifiers? I've been under the impression that, assuming the THD and other measurable statistics are similar or below the threshold of audibility, and there's no DSP going on, two amps with similar power ratings are going to be indistinguishable from one another in a double blind test. Perhaps I've been hanging around the Audiogon forums too much, but there seems to be a widely held belief that there are differences in amps.

Harman marketing the Mark Levinson line as well as the Crown amps as wildly different price point seems to lead some credence to the fact that they may think so as well. Maybe @John Schuermann can shine some light on this - is this something they talk about at all at Harman Academy?

I'm using a Crown XLS 1502 to power my 2-channel setup right now. What, if anything, would I gain if I were to move to a Mark Levinson amp or integrated?
I am by no means an expert, nor am I of the mindset that if I believe something, it is therefore irrefutably true. So, your YMMV!

Through thorough side by side, sighted testing in my home with two of the worlds highly regarded speakers (B&W 800D2's, Revel Salon2's), I tested two amps who's specs are very comparable. Those amps are the ATI Signature 6007, and the Mark Levinson No. 536. I find the No. 536 to be more fluid, musical, open. I did not initially find the difference to be a great difference, but then I bought the No. 523 preamp. With the 523 in the mix, the gap widened - a lot.

The Mark Levinson No. 523 preamp/No. 536 amp combo is special. Very special!

The 523 preamp with the ATI improved the sound as well, but not to the extent that it did with the 536's. Of course there is no electrical theory that I am aware of that would explain this, I was a business major after all, but my reading seems to indicate that many believe such synergies exist wiithin a brand. Because of this experience, I am inclined to agree.

I have heard the 585 paired with B&W 805's (D2 or D3, I don't recall which) and it sounded a lot like my 523/536/B&W 800D2's did (minus some bass). Very impressive combination, and with a small physical footprint.

In adherence with this thread's topic, I'll close by saying I like the Revel Ultima2's the best of the two brands I have owned.
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Last edited by Karl Maga; 04-28-2018 at 01:09 AM.
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post #11973 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
The factors John mentions above, I assume to be the reason Harman does not seriously endeavor to foster a proliferate dealer network. It takes staffing, funding, and conviction to put the boots on the ground to establish and grow a retail dealer network. Harman is not doing this, meaning they are not trying to do this. I wish they would since I own a lot of their top gear.

I own pairs of Salon2’s, Studio2’s, and Mark Levinson No. 536’s amps, a Voice2, a No. 523 preamp, and six C763L in ceiling speakers. I was able to get very competitive pricing on all of this superb kit, probably because Harman is not dependent on retail sales and therefore the retail sales ecosystem doesn’t desperately protect margins.

There is a Revel/Mark Levinson dealer in metro-Detroit who barely has any Harman product on display. I asked them last week about this, and the salesman said most customers call asking about McIntosh and B&W (which they carry and prominently display). BTW, this is not the dealer from whom I bought my Harman products. However, I did buy a 5 channel set of B&W speakers from them, including a pair of 800D2’s. I have subsequently upgraded to the Revels, which I found to be more delightful.
It's interesting that a few months ago Harman started distributing the Revel brand (except Ultima models) through Crutchfield. Prior to that the only internet sales was through B&M dealers, like ListenUp, who also had an internet presence. B&W aren't sold by Crutchfield, but they are available at Best Buy, which I think has a lot to do with why B&W sells so many speakers. I wonder if the decision to market with Crutchfield was a response to B&W's stranglehold on the retail chains. At the least, it should help to get more people aware of the Revel brand.

Does Revel advertise much in Stereophile, TAS and S&V? Advertising is crucial to brand awareness.

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post #11974 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 07:32 AM
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The dealer I bought my Hegel from bought out a line of Revel speakers from another dealer and while admitting hifi sales have been slower in general it took over 6 months to sell his first pair of revels! Another local dealer dropped revel after many years and replaced them with focal? Revel did a really good job with the looks of the performa3 line, but more exotic finishes would go a long way to getting people talking about them. Revel could offer their speakers in upgraded finishes for a premium and just on sight alone someone is more likely to ask for a demo, get me a matched pair of rosewood towers and I want to like them.
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post #11975 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 09:50 AM
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Can someone tell me the thread size of the floor spikes for the Salon2? tks

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post #11976 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven59 View Post
The dealer I bought my Hegel from bought out a line of Revel speakers from another dealer and while admitting hifi sales have been slower in general it took over 6 months to sell his first pair of revels! Another local dealer dropped revel after many years and replaced them with focal? Revel did a really good job with the looks of the performa3 line, but more exotic finishes would go a long way to getting people talking about them. Revel could offer their speakers in upgraded finishes for a premium and just on sight alone someone is more likely to ask for a demo, get me a matched pair of rosewood towers and I want to like them.
+1 on wishing for more finish choices. When buying my F208's this month, the choices were a reddish walnut or piano black. This isn't exactly a robust set of options.

This limited set of choices reminds me of a quote attributed to Henry Ford regarding the color of the model T: "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black." No doubt that simplified the manufacturing process.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #11977 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by steven59 View Post
Can someone tell me the thread size of the floor spikes for the Salon2? tks
The Performa3 are M8 but the only info I could find was the Herbie Audio Lab products guide to manufacturers and it shows 1/2"-13 for the Salon and Studio although it didn’t specify Ultima or Ultima2.
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post #11978 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by filmnut View Post
It's interesting that a few months ago Harman started distributing the Revel brand (except Ultima models) through Crutchfield. Prior to that the only internet sales was through B&M dealers, like ListenUp, who also had an internet presence. B&W aren't sold by Crutchfield, but they are available at Best Buy, which I think has a lot to do with why B&W sells so many speakers. I wonder if the decision to market with Crutchfield was a response to B&W's stranglehold on the retail chains. At the least, it should help to get more people aware of the Revel brand.

Does Revel advertise much in Stereophile, TAS and S&V? Advertising is crucial to brand awareness.
Interesting about Crutchfield. Nebraska Furniture Mart sells Revel speakers online and in their stores. I wonder if any other sources will start selling Revel in the next few years?
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post #11979 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 04:45 PM
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Interesting about Crutchfield. Nebraska Furniture Mart sells Revel speakers online and in their stores. I wonder if any other sources will start selling Revel in the next few years?
I like the Crutch but MSRP only.
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post #11980 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 05:06 PM
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I like the Crutch but MSRP only.
True, but free shipping and no sales tax outside of Kentucky and Rhode Island. So MSRP is the total out of pocket cost. And, you have a 60-day guarantee with cheap return shipping.

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post #11981 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 05:13 PM
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True, but free shipping and no sales tax outside of Kentucky and Rhode Island. So MSRP is the total out of pocket cost. And, you have a 60-day guarantee with cheap return shipping.
The 60 return policy is nice, but not nice enough to pay MSRP.
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post #11982 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 05:36 PM
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The 60 return policy is nice, but not nice enough to pay MSRP.
True, but if you know how to work the system, you don't have to pay MSRP. Using Discover points to buy Crutchfield gift cards will yield a 20%bonus. So cashing in $40 in Discover points will net you $50. Using Ebates site will get you an additional 2% cash back. My Epson 2150 projector was only $336 net cost and now I have an additional $17 in Crutchfield cash to use on my next purchase. Of course that's a minor cost saving when considering the cost of Revel speakers, but for smaller purchases, deals can be had especially for sale items. I was able to score a new $3000 MSRP Denon AVR for $1280 a year after it was released without having to redeem any of my Discover points. The biggest benefit of Crutchfield, IMO, is their customer service and free accessories for vehicle installations.
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post #11983 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 05:51 PM
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The 60 return policy is nice, but not nice enough to pay MSRP.
Shipping and sales tax eat up your dealer discount, so I don't get your point.

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post #11984 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 06:02 PM
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some get discounts way more than shipping or taxes...way more.
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post #11985 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 06:31 PM
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some get discounts way more than shipping or taxes...way more.
Other dealers may be different but my local dealer wasn't willing to budge on price...and didn't offer an in home trial period or returns..so they basically gave me no reason to buy from them, other dealers could be different of course.
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post #11986 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 06:40 PM
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Shipping and sales tax eat up your dealer discount, so I don't get your point.
Not even close... Before paying MSRP or close to it, give dealers like SteveH and JohnS a chance to earn your business.
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post #11987 of 16130 Old 04-28-2018, 08:45 PM
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Not even close... Before paying MSRP or close to it, give dealers like SteveH and JohnS a chance to earn your business.
Agree 100%.

Used both. Both are great. I have to say I absolutely, completely love @John_S chuermann. He’s super knowledgable, zero pressure and just fun to talk to. (Nothing against Steve who is all these thing too, but John started as my audio dealer and became my friend.)
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Agree 100%.

Used both. Both are great. I have to say I absolutely, completely love @John_S chuermann. He’s super knowledgable, zero pressure and just fun to talk to. (Nothing against Steve who is all these thing too, but John started as my audio dealer and became my friend.)
It was seeing John on Home Theater Geeks that i learned of his existence. That led to conversations and at last count, we've done business on 9 Revel speakers. (running out of rooms)
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post #11989 of 16130 Old 04-29-2018, 06:07 AM
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The Performa3 are M8 but the only info I could find was the Herbie Audio Lab products guide to manufacturers and it shows 1/2"-13 for the Salon and Studio although it didn’t specify Ultima or Ultima2.
Thanks, I have the Salon and their spikes are HUGE, I pulled an m6 from an old pair of speakers and they were too big for the salon2?

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post #11990 of 16130 Old 04-29-2018, 11:08 AM
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I made a new and much smaller stand for my C208. Before I swap this out I wanted to get some thoughts on positioning the center speaker. Currently, the tweeter of the C208 is directly below the front of the TV. The rear of the L/R speakers are 2' from the rear wall and puts the F206 tweeters 8" further out front of the C208 tweeter. Aesthetically, I like this look but think the C208 tweeter should be the same distance as the F206s, putting them in a straight line across the front. Unfortunately this look places the C208 in front of the TV by 8 inches and will really stand out. As it is, it blends in better. I've run Audyssey so the distance has been calculated. The other thing I have to consider is the arrival of the F228Be. Being as that is larger than the F206, the tweeter will be even further out front. I have no complaints with the sound quality coming form the C208 at its current location, but if moving it in line with the fronts is the correct/right thing to do and will sound even better, then, reluctantly, that is what I'll do.

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post #11991 of 16130 Old 04-29-2018, 11:23 AM
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I made a new and much smaller stand for my C208. Before I swap this out I wanted to get some thoughts on positioning the center speaker. Currently, the tweeter of the C208 is directly below the front of the TV. The rear of the L/R speakers are 2' from the rear wall and puts the F206 tweeters 8" further out front of the C208 tweeter. Aesthetically, I like this look but think the C208 tweeter should be the same distance as the F206s, putting them in a straight line across the front. Unfortunately this look places the C208 in front of the TV by 8 inches and will really stand out. As it is, it blends in better. I've run Audyssey so the distance has been calculated. The other thing I have to consider is the arrival of the F228Be. Being as that is larger than the F206, the tweeter will be even further out front. I have no complaints with the sound quality coming form the C208 at its current location, but if moving it in line with the fronts is the correct/right thing to do and will sound even better, then, reluctantly, that is what I'll do.
Alignment of the center speaker relative to the the L/R does not affect SQ. Placement of the speakers relative to nearby surfaces will. Place your speakers where they sound best without regard to alignment relative to each other. That is what the distance calculations in Audyssey is for. It will adjust the signal delays so that the sound will reach the MLP at the same time.

If you think about it, if you place all three speakers on the same plane then you will be closest to the center speaker since you will be directly in front of it. By placing it as you have it now where the L/R speakers are further out in front it will move them closer to you so the distance from each speaker to the MLP will be closer to being equal than if you have them all on the same plane.
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post #11992 of 16130 Old 04-29-2018, 11:32 AM
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What duc135 said. What I'll add is that what matters most is dialog intelligibility. Aside from the speaker itself, dialog is largely dependent on the center speaker placement. I suggest you put it where it sounds best, and let Audissey do the rest.
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post #11993 of 16130 Old 04-29-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
Alignment of the center speaker relative to the the L/R does not affect SQ. Placement of the speakers relative to nearby surfaces will. Place your speakers where they sound best without regard to alignment relative to each other. That is what the distance calculations in Audyssey is for. It will adjust the signal delays so that the sound will reach the MLP at the same time.

If you think about it, if you place all three speakers on the same plane then you will be closest to the center speaker since you will be directly in front of it. By placing it as you have it now where the L/R speakers are further out in front it will move them closer to you so the distance from each speaker to the MLP will be closer to being equal than if you have them all on the same plane.
That is great news because I like this look much better. Thanks.
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post #11994 of 16130 Old 04-29-2018, 12:33 PM
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I have decided to go with voice 2.Got a deal on a Astock that i could not pass..
Now wait begins..
please post your thoughts on th Voice2 versus the C208....I’d be curious to see what you think b/w the two
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post #11995 of 16130 Old 04-30-2018, 10:12 AM
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It's interesting that a few months ago Harman started distributing the Revel brand (except Ultima models) through Crutchfield. Prior to that the only internet sales was through B&M dealers, like ListenUp, who also had an internet presence. B&W aren't sold by Crutchfield, but they are available at Best Buy, which I think has a lot to do with why B&W sells so many speakers. I wonder if the decision to market with Crutchfield was a response to B&W's stranglehold on the retail chains. At the least, it should help to get more people aware of the Revel brand.

Does Revel advertise much in Stereophile, TAS and S&V? Advertising is crucial to brand awareness.
Several people have asked me if it bothers me that Revel is now also being sold by a few companies online, including ListenUp (who is right down the street from me) and Crutchfield. The answer is no, not at all - all it does is raise brand awareness. And I think I tell the Harman story better, regardless

I do think Revel wants to be more visible, and what you mention is part of their efforts in this regard. As I mentioned before, previously they had been happy being a great little speaker brand no one has heard of.

Oh, and as to advertising. Most advertising campaigns are tied to launches of new speaker lines. As Revel bucks the trend of revamping their speaker lineup every other year (after all, the science doesn't change), they have much less new product to put in front of reviewers. That's a major reason why they are not in the spotlight all that often. The Be lineup should help change that.

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post #11996 of 16130 Old 04-30-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by astrallite View Post
Looks like Revel M126Be and F228Be are already available online on some sites.
They are trickling in - I think most of the pre-order units will be shipping ever the next couple of weeks. I understand there is a slight delay on Walnut.

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post #11997 of 16130 Old 04-30-2018, 01:03 PM
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I know they’re new, but does anyone know yet if the M126Be’s will work with the M16 stands?
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post #11998 of 16130 Old 04-30-2018, 02:03 PM
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I know they’re new, but does anyone know yet if the M126Be’s will work with the M16 stands?
“ Optional Performa-series M Stand pedestal stands are available for the M126Be that places the speakers at the proper height for seated listeners. Refer to the assembly instructions that are included with the stands for additional information.”

The M16 stand has a capacity rating of 20lbs and the M126Be is 22lbs.

Assume they would work “unofficially” but not sure if it’s worth $250 savings for $4000 MSRP speakers.
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post #11999 of 16130 Old 04-30-2018, 02:54 PM
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@laserjock II fair point.
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post #12000 of 16130 Old 05-01-2018, 09:15 AM
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Still debating stands. I do t like the looks of the Revel M stands all that much, and if I’m paying more I’d rather find something I like to look at. Along those lines I have 2 questions for the forum.

1) For those here who use stand mount speakers, what stands do you use and like?
2) Has anyone here had any experience with Roguz Audio ( http://www.rogoz-audio.com/en/produc...er-stands.html )?
They offer some nice looking stands that can be customized in a variety of ways.

I ordered a set of the metallic silver M126Be’s and am trying to find something that compliments both them and the living room where they’ll be residing. I also have two young kids and a dog, sonstability is a bonus, though they don’t use this room often.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Snowmanick; 05-01-2018 at 09:58 AM.
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