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post #12241 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TimVG View Post
I wouldn't correct a speaker as well designed as the 126be above 300~ hz. It'll do more harm than good.

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I've noticed there isn't really much correction in most rooms above 1K with most speakers with Dirac Live anyway, 90% of it is from 20-500Hz.

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post #12242 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 03:57 PM
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Going to compare this with the Salk Silk soon (msrp $3600), if it can keep up with a mail-order brand with flagship RAAL/Scanspeak drivers in the same price range I think Revel might have hit it out of the ballpark with this one.
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That comparison definitely deserves it's own thread, my money would be on the Revels but I've heard nothing but good things about the Silk either.
I have the Philharmonic 3 (which also use the RAAL tweeters and ScanSpeak drivers) designed by Dennis Murphy. I believe the Salk speakers are the same speakers designed by Dennis Murphy in a custom cabinet. While the Philharmonics are great speakers, I'd still choose Revel at this point. I would even choose the "lowly" F208s over the Salks. The Revels would still need a decent sub to compete with the Philharmonics on the low end unless you step up to the Salon2s.

Just for reference, I started with the Revel F52 then tried the Philharmonics when I heard them being compared to and described as a poor man's Salon2s. At the time I was jonesing for the Salon2s, but it was out of my budget so decided to give it a shot. While the Philharmonics were a bit cleaner sounding and dug much deeper than my F52s, they F52s just sounded better overall. I'm not an audiophile nor am I a writer with fancy words so I'm not going to try to wow you with a description of the sound. All I know is that the F52s "moved" me and brought the emotion out of the music. The Philharmonics were cleaner sounding, but somehow seemed too clinical or dry in their presentation compared to the F52s.

This experience made me want the Salon2s even more. If the Salons can be as clear as the Philharmonics and provide the emotional effect of the F52s then I'd be in audio nirvana. To be honest, I was completely satisfied with the sound quality of the F52s. The urge to upgrade to the Salon2s was more for aesthetic reasons than for the performance upgrade for me. I just think they look gorgeous. The performance upgrade was just the cherry on top if they were as clean sounding as the Philharmonics.

I was fortunate that my brother was looking to get some higher end speakers so I gave him the choice of which speakers he wanted since the leftover pair was just going in to my bedroom for late night TV/movie watching and non-critical music listening. He also chose the F52s over the Philharmonics. With the added funds from the sale, I was able to afford the Salon2s finally. If I was completely honest, I'd have to say the F52s imaged better in my room than the Salon2s do. It could be due to the smallish size of the room. The Salon2s might be too big for it. The F52s had a bigger, wider soundstage than the Salon2s do. However, I'm willing to compromise the slightly smaller, narrower soundstage for the added clarity and low end of the Salon2s. Also, did I mention how gorgeous they look with the grill removed?
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post #12243 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 04:12 PM
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found a huge polish website for audio reviews. here is their take on revel 208. https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

I used google translate to convert the pages to english.

https://translate.google.com

love all the measurements

original website

https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/zespoly-glosnikowe
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post #12244 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 04:41 PM
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I have the Philharmonic 3 (which also use the RAAL tweeters and ScanSpeak drivers) designed by Dennis Murphy. I believe the Salk speakers are the same speakers designed by Dennis Murphy in a custom cabinet. While the Philharmonics are great speakers, I'd still choose Revel at this point. I would even choose the "lowly" F208s over the Salks. The Revels would still need a decent sub to compete with the Philharmonics on the low end unless you step up to the Salon2s.

Just for reference, I started with the Revel F52 then tried the Philharmonics when I heard them being compared to and described as a poor man's Salon2s. At the time I was jonesing for the Salon2s, but it was out of my budget so decided to give it a shot. While the Philharmonics were a bit cleaner sounding and dug much deeper than my F52s, they F52s just sounded better overall. I'm not an audiophile nor am I a writer with fancy words so I'm not going to try to wow you with a description of the sound. All I know is that the F52s "moved" me and brought the emotion out of the music. The Philharmonics were cleaner sounding, but somehow seemed too clinical or dry in their presentation compared to the F52s.

This experience made me want the Salon2s even more. If the Salons can be as clear as the Philharmonics and provide the emotional effect of the F52s then I'd be in audio nirvana. To be honest, I was completely satisfied with the sound quality of the F52s. The urge to upgrade to the Salon2s was more for aesthetic reasons than for the performance upgrade for me. I just think they look gorgeous. The performance upgrade was just the cherry on top if they were as clean sounding as the Philharmonics.

I was fortunate that my brother was looking to get some higher end speakers so I gave him the choice of which speakers he wanted since the leftover pair was just going in to my bedroom for late night TV/movie watching and non-critical music listening. He also chose the F52s over the Philharmonics. With the added funds from the sale, I was able to afford the Salon2s finally. If I was completely honest, I'd have to say the F52s imaged better in my room than the Salon2s do. It could be due to the smallish size of the room. The Salon2s might be too big for it. The F52s had a bigger, wider soundstage than the Salon2s do. However, I'm willing to compromise the slightly smaller, narrower soundstage for the added clarity and low end of the Salon2s. Also, did I mention how gorgeous they look with the grill removed?
Ribbons like the RAAL do lack dynamics, so yes I do prefer domes as well, and also I dislike the smaller listening window, particularly on the vertical plane. To get the delicate highs of a ribbon and the dynamics and dispersion of a dome you pretty much have to go to end-game dome territory--i.e., Accuton or Seas diamond tweeters. They are still way too expensive for the majority of audiophiles.

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post #12245 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 05:50 PM
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Revel in Houston or Dallas?

Revel doesn't make it easy to audition their speakers. I'm headed to Houston tomorrow, and after trying the dealer locator on the Revel web site, I can't seem to find any place to check out Revel speakers. Only four dealers are listed, and that is in a MSA of about 6 million people. It seems that most of them are primarily home automation outfits, requiring appointments, and their web sites don't even indicate that they carry Revel. It appears that they may have carried Revel at one point, but perhaps no longer.

I checked in Dallas as well, and the same situation seems to apply, although there are many more dealers listed in Dallas. Does anybody know of a dealers in Houston or Dallas that currently carry Revel? Thanks much for any info.

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post #12246 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Revel doesn't make it easy to audition their speakers. I'm headed to Houston tomorrow, and after trying the dealer locator on the Revel web site, I can't seem to find any place to check out Revel speakers. Only four dealers are listed, and that is in a MSA of about 6 million people. It seems that most of them are primarily home automation outfits, requiring appointments, and their web sites don't even indicate that they carry Revel. It appears that they may have carried Revel at one point, but perhaps no longer.

I checked in Dallas as well, and the same situation seems to apply, although there are many more dealers listed in Dallas. Does anybody know of a dealers in Houston or Dallas that currently carry Revel? Thanks much for any info.
I purchased a pair of F36 speakers from Nebraska Furniture Mart. Their huge new store in The Colony, which is a DFW suburb, carries Revel and is open 7 days a week. In case you need a place to stay, they were also going to build some hotels adjacent to the store for shoppers. You can look up their website to determine which Revel lines they carry (they might carry all). If you are thinking of going to this store, a quick phone call to a salesperson in this department might be worthwhile so that you know which models they currently have on the sales floor.

I am also waiting for the delivery of a pair of the new F228Be speakers, but purchased these from a Revel dealer in another state.

Good luck with your auditioning.
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post #12247 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 07:42 PM
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I purchased a pair of F36 speakers from Nebraska Furniture Mart. Their huge new store in The Colony, which is a DFW suburb, carries Revel and is open 7 days a week. In case you need a place to stay, they were also going to build some hotels adjacent to the store for shoppers. You can look up their website to determine which Revel lines they carry (they might carry all). If you are thinking of going to this store, a quick phone call to a salesperson in this department might be worthwhile so that you know which models they currently have on the sales floor.

I am also waiting for the delivery of a pair of the new F228Be speakers, but purchased these from a Revel dealer in another state.

Good luck with your auditioning.
Uh, wow. The only thing I remember about going into that store (looking for a recliner) was the large section devoted to Joanna Gaines's tacky/boring/derivative furniture. I should have checked out their audio section, I guess!

That's also very near to Hard Eight, which is some very solid BBQ. And now I am hungry thinking about it.
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post #12248 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Revel doesn't make it easy to audition their speakers. I'm headed to Houston tomorrow, and after trying the dealer locator on the Revel web site, I can't seem to find any place to check out Revel speakers. Only four dealers are listed, and that is in a MSA of about 6 million people. It seems that most of them are primarily home automation outfits, requiring appointments, and their web sites don't even indicate that they carry Revel. It appears that they may have carried Revel at one point, but perhaps no longer.

I checked in Dallas as well, and the same situation seems to apply, although there are many more dealers listed in Dallas. Does anybody know of a dealers in Houston or Dallas that currently carry Revel? Thanks much for any info.
Welcome to the 21st century, where mp3 killed good sound, home theater killed high-end audio, and the internet killed the hi-fi audio store. Most people don't listen to speakers before they buy these days. They buy Klipsch or Polk on the internet and return them if they change their mind. Since Revel is a higher-end brand, the only people who are buying them are rich people who want to buy surround systems through their custom theater designers, or 2-channel audiophiles who are lucky enough to have a high-end audio store somewhere within a day's drive of them. Since there are about 5 high end audio stores in the whole country now by my reckoning (located in NYC, LA and Miami), that leaves home theater design companies as your most likely source for the full Revel line. Even then, I doubt any of them will have every model available for auditioning.

No wonder Klipsch, Polk and B&W sell so many speakers. They're among the only ones who make it easy to buy their products. The rest are ID brands, which you have to buy first and listen to later.

Here in Colorado, Denver/Boulder/CO Springs are lucky to have ListenUp, which carries Revel, but that's it except for theater designers like John Schuermann. I think your best bet is to call the dealers listed in Houston and see what they have.
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post #12249 of 15297 Old 05-13-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Aja View Post
I purchased a pair of F36 speakers from Nebraska Furniture Mart. Their huge new store in The Colony, which is a DFW suburb, carries Revel and is open 7 days a week. In case you need a place to stay, they were also going to build some hotels adjacent to the store for shoppers. You can look up their website to determine which Revel lines they carry (they might carry all). If you are thinking of going to this store, a quick phone call to a salesperson in this department might be worthwhile so that you know which models they currently have on the sales floor.

I am also waiting for the delivery of a pair of the new F228Be speakers, but purchased these from a Revel dealer in another state.

Good luck with your auditioning.
Thanks, yes I've been in NFM and saw that they have Revel. They also have Paradigm Persona. The problem is that they just have all the speakers lined up in a row in the same room, and the room is not even isolated from all the noise of the store. So, it is not ideal, but at least they carry top of the line Revel and Persona. I was just hoping to find a decent place to hear Revel in Houston while I'm there, but it's not looking hopeful. It looks like there are a couple of decent small shops in Dallas that carry Revel, so I'll plan on heading over there before too long.

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post #12250 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Revel doesn't make it easy to audition their speakers. I'm headed to Houston tomorrow, and after trying the dealer locator on the Revel web site, I can't seem to find any place to check out Revel speakers. Only four dealers are listed, and that is in a MSA of about 6 million people. It seems that most of them are primarily home automation outfits, requiring appointments, and their web sites don't even indicate that they carry Revel. It appears that they may have carried Revel at one point, but perhaps no longer.

I checked in Dallas as well, and the same situation seems to apply, although there are many more dealers listed in Dallas. Does anybody know of a dealers in Houston or Dallas that currently carry Revel? Thanks much for any info.
Austin has a place, A&B TV.

I live in Houston so I share the same issue. So Austin is a lot closer from Houston than Dallas. I believe the last time I called they said they did have F206 and F208s out for listening. I'd call to confirm though.
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post #12251 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 10:10 AM
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It was asked if anyone has received their F228Bes yet - I know I am still waiting on my demo models. They will probably show up this week, of course, after I leave town for LA on Wednesday (just a prediction, lol). I am also getting a set of M126Bes. Both pairs will be in silver, which I dig.

One of my customers has already received their M126Bes before me - I'm jealous!!!

Speaking of new stuff, I am personally switching out my Anthem AVM60 with the new Lexicon MC-10 this week (the Lexicon is supposed to show up tomorrow - I hope I have time to play with it before I get on a plane!). The Lexicon has Dirac room correction but modified to use the JBL Synthesis / ARCOS curve. It's my understanding that JBL will offer a basic ARCOS certification for a Lexicon based calibration (if done by one of their Synthesis authorized calibrators). The unit comes with a basic mic, or you can order the Pro mic for around $300 and do the calibration yourself. The Harman calibrators can do a better job fine tuning, though, just based on years of field experience (and intimate knowledge of the speakers, of course).

Stand by for more on the MC10. I'm also snagging two of the new Lexicon receivers, the RV7 and RV9. Kevin Voecks posted this a couple of weeks ago, that the RV9 receiver will even power the Salon2s without issue:

The forthcoming Lexicon RV-9 and the ARCAM AVR-850 sound sensational, and drive Salon2s without any issues. That is even true using material chosen to challenge them in the lowest impedance range. Both of these AVRs run in true Class A mode up to roughly 23W, above which they run Class AB. Even with low sensitivity speakers, you would be well within the Class A range the vast majority of the time.

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post #12252 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 10:23 AM
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It was asked if anyone has received their F228Bes yet - I know I am still waiting on my demo models. They will probably show up this week, of course, after I leave town for LA on Wednesday (just a prediction, lol). I am also getting a set of M126Bes. Both pairs will be in silver, which I dig.

One of my customers has already received their M126Bes before me - I'm jealous!!!

Speaking of new stuff, I am personally switching out my Anthem AVM60 with the new Lexicon MC-10 this week (the Lexicon is supposed to show up tomorrow - I hope I have time to play with it before I get on a plane!). The Lexicon has Dirac room correction but modified to use the JBL Synthesis / ARCOS curve. It's my understanding that JBL will offer a basic ARCOS certification for a Lexicon based calibration (if done by one of their Synthesis authorized calibrators). The unit comes with a basic mic, or you can order the Pro mic for around $300 and do the calibration yourself. The Harman calibrators can do a better job fine tuning, though, just based on years of field experience (and intimate knowledge of the speakers, of course).

Stand by for more on the MC10. I'm also snagging two of the new Lexicon receivers, the RV7 and RV9. Kevin Voecks posted this a couple of weeks ago, that the RV9 receiver will even power the Salon2s without issue:

The forthcoming Lexicon RV-9 and the ARCAM AVR-850 sound sensational, and drive Salon2s without any issues. That is even true using material chosen to challenge them in the lowest impedance range. Both of these AVRs run in true Class A mode up to roughly 23W, above which they run Class AB. Even with low sensitivity speakers, you would be well within the Class A range the vast majority of the time.
Interesting Class G amp on the RV-9

What’s the MSRP on that one?
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post #12253 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
It was asked if anyone has received their F228Bes yet - I know I am still waiting on my demo models. They will probably show up this week, of course, after I leave town for LA on Wednesday (just a prediction, lol). I am also getting a set of M126Bes. Both pairs will be in silver, which I dig.

One of my customers has already received their M126Bes before me - I'm jealous!!!

Speaking of new stuff, I am personally switching out my Anthem AVM60 with the new Lexicon MC-10 this week (the Lexicon is supposed to show up tomorrow - I hope I have time to play with it before I get on a plane!). The Lexicon has Dirac room correction but modified to use the JBL Synthesis / ARCOS curve. It's my understanding that JBL will offer a basic ARCOS certification for a Lexicon based calibration (if done by one of their Synthesis authorized calibrators). The unit comes with a basic mic, or you can order the Pro mic for around $300 and do the calibration yourself. The Harman calibrators can do a better job fine tuning, though, just based on years of field experience (and intimate knowledge of the speakers, of course).

Stand by for more on the MC10. I'm also snagging two of the new Lexicon receivers, the RV7 and RV9. Kevin Voecks posted this a couple of weeks ago, that the RV9 receiver will even power the Salon2s without issue:

The forthcoming Lexicon RV-9 and the ARCAM AVR-850 sound sensational, and drive Salon2s without any issues. That is even true using material chosen to challenge them in the lowest impedance range. Both of these AVRs run in true Class A mode up to roughly 23W, above which they run Class AB. Even with low sensitivity speakers, you would be well within the Class A range the vast majority of the time.
I know who that customer is, arrived 11:15 AM.
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post #12254 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 10:47 AM
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Interesting Class G amp on the RV-9

What’s the MSRP on that one?
$6500 - $500 more than the equivalent Arcam. Adds the ARCOS curve and Lexicon Logic7 upmixing (plus a spectacular, heavy Lexicon faceplate).

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post #12255 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 12:01 PM
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I have the Philharmonic 3 (which also use the RAAL tweeters and ScanSpeak drivers) designed by Dennis Murphy. I believe the Salk speakers are the same speakers designed by Dennis Murphy in a custom cabinet. While the Philharmonics are great speakers, I'd still choose Revel at this point. I would even choose the "lowly" F208s over the Salks. The Revels would still need a decent sub to compete with the Philharmonics on the low end unless you step up to the Salon2s.

Just for reference, I started with the Revel F52 then tried the Philharmonics when I heard them being compared to and described as a poor man's Salon2s. At the time I was jonesing for the Salon2s, but it was out of my budget so decided to give it a shot. While the Philharmonics were a bit cleaner sounding and dug much deeper than my F52s, they F52s just sounded better overall. I'm not an audiophile nor am I a writer with fancy words so I'm not going to try to wow you with a description of the sound. All I know is that the F52s "moved" me and brought the emotion out of the music. The Philharmonics were cleaner sounding, but somehow seemed too clinical or dry in their presentation compared to the F52s.

This experience made me want the Salon2s even more. If the Salons can be as clear as the Philharmonics and provide the emotional effect of the F52s then I'd be in audio nirvana. To be honest, I was completely satisfied with the sound quality of the F52s. The urge to upgrade to the Salon2s was more for aesthetic reasons than for the performance upgrade for me. I just think they look gorgeous. The performance upgrade was just the cherry on top if they were as clean sounding as the Philharmonics.

I was fortunate that my brother was looking to get some higher end speakers so I gave him the choice of which speakers he wanted since the leftover pair was just going in to my bedroom for late night TV/movie watching and non-critical music listening. He also chose the F52s over the Philharmonics. With the added funds from the sale, I was able to afford the Salon2s finally. If I was completely honest, I'd have to say the F52s imaged better in my room than the Salon2s do. It could be due to the smallish size of the room. The Salon2s might be too big for it. The F52s had a bigger, wider soundstage than the Salon2s do. However, I'm willing to compromise the slightly smaller, narrower soundstage for the added clarity and low end of the Salon2s. Also, did I mention how gorgeous they look with the grill removed?
Congratulations on the Salon2s.
I leave my grills on but the sculpted baffle and titanium drivers are cool to me as well.

I'm surprised about your imaging comments.
I would think if anything, the Salons image would be more 3D in every respect than the F52s.
Have you futzed with placement at all or the switches on the back?

I think the F52s are rear-ported rather than the Salons down-firing port.
I know I can place my Studio2s fairly close to the wall without getting bass bloat.

Anyway, not trying to 2nd guess you just seems curious about the imaging.

 
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post #12256 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 12:38 PM
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Congratulations on the Salon2s.
I leave my grills on but the sculpted baffle and titanium drivers are cool to me as well.

I'm surprised about your imaging comments.
I would think if anything, the Salons image would be more 3D in every respect than the F52s.
Have you futzed with placement at all or the switches on the back?

I think the F52s are rear-ported rather than the Salons down-firing port.
I know I can place my Studio2s fairly close to the wall without getting bass bloat.

Anyway, not trying to 2nd guess you just seems curious about the imaging.
My room is 16'x18'x8' and sealed. Currently the front of the speakers are ~4.5' from the wall behind them and about the same for the side walls. The speakers are ~7.5' apart from each other (inside edge) and I sit ~9.5' from them. My seat is ~4' from the rear wall. The first reflection points are treated as is the wall behind the speakers and the rear wall behind the seats. I've tested combinations with and without treatments and prefer the treatments in place as there is a major echo in the room without them. There is no other furniture in the room other than the speakers and a single couch (cloth surface) for seating. The rest of the room is bare walls/doors. Floor is carpeted.

I have 7 additional speakers for a total of 9 satellite channels, 6 subs and two 10" mid-bass modules tied to the Salon2s via an external DSP as a single speaker set. I have two 18" subs side by side in the center of the front wall, two 15" side by side in the center of the back wall directly behind the seats, two 15" subs, one on each side of the couch serving double duty as end tables. The two 10" mid-bass modules are also behind the couch at about the same locations as the Salon2s. All electronics are hidden away in closets. Only thing not audio related that's visible is the couch and TV (for obvious reasons). Oh, and a freestanding, wood burning fireplace in the front, right corner.

I spent MANY months playing around with placement for best imaging and sound. This is a dedicated room for audio and HT and I was single at the time so I had absolute freedom of placement with the only caveat that it had to be on one particular wall due to location of doors (one in each corner of the room) and walkways. The Salon2s sound best in close to the same place the F52s did. The Salon2s are currently facing straight to the back wall. I welcome ANY suggestions to what I'm doing wrong or can improve upon.
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post #12257 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 03:44 PM
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@duc135 do you run the midbass modules with the mains all the time?
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post #12258 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 04:28 PM
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@duc135 do you run the midbass modules with the mains all the time?
Yes. I use a MiniDSP to split the L/R speaker signal. Essentially, I'm using a modified version of bass management of speakers + sub. This way I'm able to run my main L/R speakers full range for all sources and get the benefits of double bass for movies and bass heavy music. 99% of my music listening is sans subs and I can still get visceral impacts from what is in all intents and purposes, a pair of homemade JL Audio Fathom F110s. I'm using the same JL drivers in a sealed box driven by a 600W Emotiva XPR-5 amp. The same amp drives the Salon2s. I forget at what frequency I crossover from mains to the MBMs.

While the Salon2s are flat to ~18Hz in my room, I have to admit I'm a bit of a basshead. I use the MBMs and DSP to give my L/R channels a boost in the frequencies covered by the MBMs. This setup gives me more than enough bass for over 99% of my music without having to power up all of my amps for the subs. Amps off = less heat and lower electricity bills. This is a more recent (relatively) addition to my system. I had forgotten I had the spare drivers just laying around and free amp channels as well as a MiniDSP. Only cost was some time to build up the boxes with spare MDF I have from previous builds. I did have to buy some paint, but that was about it.
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post #12259 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
It was asked if anyone has received their F228Bes yet - I know I am still waiting on my demo models. They will probably show up this week, of course, after I leave town for LA on Wednesday (just a prediction, lol). I am also getting a set of M126Bes. Both pairs will be in silver, which I dig.

One of my customers has already received their M126Bes before me - I'm jealous!!!

Speaking of new stuff, I am personally switching out my Anthem AVM60 with the new Lexicon MC-10 this week (the Lexicon is supposed to show up tomorrow - I hope I have time to play with it before I get on a plane!). The Lexicon has Dirac room correction but modified to use the JBL Synthesis / ARCOS curve. It's my understanding that JBL will offer a basic ARCOS certification for a Lexicon based calibration (if done by one of their Synthesis authorized calibrators). The unit comes with a basic mic, or you can order the Pro mic for around $300 and do the calibration yourself. The Harman calibrators can do a better job fine tuning, though, just based on years of field experience (and intimate knowledge of the speakers, of course).

Stand by for more on the MC10. I'm also snagging two of the new Lexicon receivers, the RV7 and RV9. Kevin Voecks posted this a couple of weeks ago, that the RV9 receiver will even power the Salon2s without issue:

The forthcoming Lexicon RV-9 and the ARCAM AVR-850 sound sensational, and drive Salon2s without any issues. That is even true using material chosen to challenge them in the lowest impedance range. Both of these AVRs run in true Class A mode up to roughly 23W, above which they run Class AB. Even with low sensitivity speakers, you would be well within the Class A range the vast majority of the time.
I look forward to hearing your impressions on the new Lexicon gear. I’d be especially interested in hearing how the new Lexicon units fare against the Anthem STR line in 2-channel mode (or 2.1) since you carry both.

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post #12260 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 05:18 PM
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I'm hoping for more, reasonably priced, options for 9.4.x Atmos processing. With amps if possible, but will settle for processor only. If not, I'll need an additional 10 amp channels to budget for.
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post #12261 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 06:16 PM
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Yes. I use a MiniDSP to split the L/R speaker signal. Essentially, I'm using a modified version of bass management of speakers + sub. This way I'm able to run my main L/R speakers full range for all sources and get the benefits of double bass for movies and bass heavy music. 99% of my music listening is sans subs and I can still get visceral impacts from what is in all intents and purposes, a pair of homemade JL Audio Fathom F110s. I'm using the same JL drivers in a sealed box driven by a 600W Emotiva XPR-5 amp. The same amp drives the Salon2s. I forget at what frequency I crossover from mains to the MBMs.

While the Salon2s are flat to ~18Hz in my room, I have to admit I'm a bit of a basshead. I use the MBMs and DSP to give my L/R channels a boost in the frequencies covered by the MBMs. This setup gives me more than enough bass for over 99% of my music without having to power up all of my amps for the subs. Amps off = less heat and lower electricity bills. This is a more recent (relatively) addition to my system. I had forgotten I had the spare drivers just laying around and free amp channels as well as a MiniDSP. Only cost was some time to build up the boxes with spare MDF I have from previous builds. I did have to buy some paint, but that was about it.
Just wondering if that contributes to less “imaging” from the Salon2’s
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post #12262 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
The speakers are ~7.5' apart from each other (inside edge) and I sit ~9.5' from them.

I have 7 additional speakers for a total of 9 satellite channels, 6 subs and two 10" mid-bass modules tied to the Salon2s via an external DSP as a single speaker set. I have two 18" subs side by side in the center of the front wall, two 15" side by side in the center of the back wall directly behind the seats, two 15" subs, one on each side of the couch serving double duty as end tables. The two 10" mid-bass modules are also behind the couch at about the same locations as the Salon2s. All electronics are hidden away in closets. Only thing not audio related that's visible is the couch and TV (for obvious reasons). Oh, and a freestanding, wood burning fireplace in the front, right corner.

The Salon2s are currently facing straight to the back wall. I welcome ANY suggestions to what I'm doing wrong or can improve upon.
1. Only 7.5' apart is not enough IMO, especially for a speaker the size of the Salon2. My F208's are 11' apart.

2. Sitting 9.5' feet back from them is a good distance but not at the apex of an equilateral triangle which is rule #1 for speaker setup.

3. I understand having a lot of subs but the placement is not what is recommended for room coverage. Try putting one in each corner or some spread arrangement other than stacked center. That's for PA systems.

4. 10" mid bass modules? How do you define mid bass? Why do you need those? What frequency range do they cover? Salon2's are full range and don't need subs let alone mid bass help.

5. I assume you have stereo image issues listening in just stereo. My reply #'s 1 and 2 cover that.

6. "The Salon2s are currently facing straight to the back wall". After you spread them out so you are sitting at the apex of an equilateral triangle (try 10 or 11 feet), toe them in so the tweeters are aiming at your ears. Toe them back out bit by bit if needed to get a wide stereo image with a solid phantom center image.

7. What is your crossover frequency for the Salon2's to the 10" mid bass? Mid bass to subs? I'd probably eliminate the mid bass modules completely and work on integrating the Salon2's with the subs.

8. The wood burning fireplace may be affect things. It may rattle, it may resonate. It could be taking up space you need to spread out the Salon2's or put a sub there.
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post #12263 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 08:06 PM
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@Rex Anderson
Rex said it better
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I love a mix of salon 2's and diy engineering.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
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post #12265 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 09:25 PM
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Just wondering if that contributes to less “imaging” from the Salon2’s
The MBMs are a recent addition. The imaging "problem" was there long before. I would hesitate to call it a problem though. It still projects a very good soundstage. It's just not as big and wide as the F52s. The F52's soundstage went beyond the boundaries of the speakers themselves by quite a bit if I closed my eyes. The Salon2's soundstage project further than the physical speakers, but not as much as the F52s.

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1. Only 7.5' apart is not enough IMO, especially for a speaker the size of the Salon2. My F208's are 11' apart.

2. Sitting 9.5' feet back from them is a good distance but not at the apex of an equilateral triangle which is rule #1 for speaker setup.
I have doors on three corners of the room and the freestanding fireplace on the front right. If I put the speakers any further out then my right front speaker would be literally in the fireplace and the left speaker would be in the middle of the walkway. That's as far apart as they are going to get. I live in CA so there is no way I'm getting rid of the wood burning fireplace. Once gone, there is no legal way to get one back.

I understand the principles of the equilateral triangle, but I don't want to put my couch in the middle of my room with useless space behind it. Having it in the middle of the room also make for a very tight space for my nephews and nieces to play their xBox games when they come over. They play the games that use the camera for motion sensing. Gotta make them exercise somehow.

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3. I understand having a lot of subs but the placement is not what is recommended for room coverage. Try putting one in each corner or some spread arrangement other than stacked center. That's for PA systems.
As I mentioned previously, I have a door in three corners of my room. No way can I put subs in the corners unless I make everyone climb over the subs to get in and out of the room. I've measured the response in room with the subs as they are now along the center of the front and rear walls vs. at the furthest edges of the walls just inside the doors and everywhere in between. They're all similar. None is noticeably better than the other.

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4. 10" mid bass modules? How do you define mid bass? Why do you need those? What frequency range do they cover? Salon2's are full range and don't need subs let alone mid bass help.
Yes, 10" MBMs. I define midbass as that chest slam area. IIRC, I think I cross over somewhere ~100Hz-120Hz or so. While the Salon2s are indeed full range and flat to 18Hz in my room, they will not produce the impact that MBMs will. The bass is not localized so I cannot tell that the bass is coming from behind me. The image still stay true to coming from the front L/R speakers. My DSP adds at least 5dBs to the MBMs possibly more. It's been at least a year since I've set it up.

Unless all you listen to is soft music with no bass at low levels, you're kidding yourself if you think Salon2s don't need subs. At least in my situation. While I agree with most of what John S. posts, I do not, in the slightest, believe that all <20Hz content in movies are accidental. There are way too many movies out there with considerable content <20Hz. Many of them drop into the single digits.

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5. I assume you have stereo image issues listening in just stereo. My reply #'s 1 and 2 cover that.
Yes, I only worry about imaging when listening in stereo. I guess me calling it an imaging issue is incorrect. I think what I really mean is the size of the soundstage. As I have responded above, the F52's soundstage is just bigger than the Salon2s.

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6. "The Salon2s are currently facing straight to the back wall". After you spread them out so you are sitting at the apex of an equilateral triangle (try 10 or 11 feet), toe them in so the tweeters are aiming at your ears. Toe them back out bit by bit if needed to get a wide stereo image with a solid phantom center image.
See my response above. No way I can spread the speakers any further apart. I wish I could so that I can fit a bigger screen for a projector upgrade over my 60" plasma. I tried toeing the speakers in already. That's how I had my F52s. The Salon2s facing straight back gave the widest soundstage. Toeing them a little out widened the stage, but started affecting the imaging. They started to sound like two seperate speakers playing the same content instead of creating the sound from in front of me.

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7. What is your crossover frequency for the Salon2's to the 10" mid bass? Mid bass to subs? I'd probably eliminate the mid bass modules completely and work on integrating the Salon2's with the subs.
See above. I believe I crossover the Salon2s to the MBMs somewhere around 100Hz-120Hz. I can't be absolutely sure. The L/R channels run full range so they do not cross over to the subs really, but I set the crossover to the sub for all channels at 80Hz. No way I'm tossing out the MBMs. That is not the issue. I had the smaller than F52 soundstage issue long before I added the MBMs and using Salon2s alone. Like I said, I don't use my subs for music listening and that is the only time I notice the smaller soundstage. Even when watching action movies with lots of mid-bass like gun fights, the addition of the MBMs make a noticeable difference over using subs alone.

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8. The wood burning fireplace may be affect things. It may rattle, it may resonate. It could be taking up space you need to spread out the Salon2's or put a sub there.
You are absolutely correct about that. It does rattle and resonate, but not nearly as bad as a few other things in the room when the subs get going at uber low frequencies. Things start rattling noticeably for <20Hz content. During music listening at high volumes no rattling can be heard. At least not from the MLP that I can tell. Yes, it also takes up space that could be used to move the speaker further out, but that only allows me to move the right speaker and not the left. That would no longer put me at the center of an isosceles triangle (best I can do).

Thank you for taking the time to try and help me with my "issue" though. I really hope people do not get the impression that I feel that the Salon2s have an imaging or soundstage issue. I really don't. I am more than ecstatic about how they sound. It's just that the soundstage is a bit smaller than the F52s. Other than the soundstage, the Salon2s are absolutely better than the F52s in every way. I attribute that to my smallish room though. I think these need to be in a much bigger room to let them play to their full potential.

One more thing I failed to mention previously was that I had to build a riser platform for my couch to raise my ears back up to tweeter level as they are considerably taller than the F52s. Originally, I had adjusted the spikes to point the front of speaker downward so that the tweeter was firing at my ears, but I just didn't like the looks of the tilted speaker. The OCD in me couldn't take it.
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post #12266 of 15297 Old 05-14-2018, 10:25 PM
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Any chance the Emotiva is underpowered for the Salon2’s?
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post #12267 of 15297 Old 05-15-2018, 03:48 AM
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Tilt the Salon2 forward slightly by putting something under the back of the floorplate. They are quite tall and you're likely sitting somewhat below the tweeter axis. This should fix the imaging. Good luck.

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post #12268 of 15297 Old 05-15-2018, 08:54 AM
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Tilt the Salon2 forward slightly by putting something under the back of the floorplate. They are quite tall and you're likely sitting somewhat below the tweeter axis. This should fix the imaging. Good luck.

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post #12269 of 15297 Old 05-15-2018, 08:57 AM
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Anyone see any obvious issues (besides not having predrilled mounting points) to using the Dynaudio Stand 6 with M126Be’s?

I like their design better than the Revel M Stands for the same price, and that they are mass loadable to help a bit with stability (2 kids and a Golden Retriever here). But I have missed obvious issues in the past.

Thanks for any thoughts.
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post #12270 of 15297 Old 05-15-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
Unless all you listen to is soft music with no bass at low levels, you're kidding yourself if you think Salon2s don't need subs. At least in my situation. While I agree with most of what John S. posts, I do not, in the slightest, believe that all <20Hz content in movies are accidental. There are way too many movies out there with considerable content <20Hz. Many of them drop into the single digits.
Glad to know you agree with most

Just to clarify, I don't think that all <20hz content is accidental. Some I'm sure is deliberate. But even when it's deliberate I doubt that most time it was actually heard on the mix stage, so would say "unmonitored." But even there I say "most of the time," not always. I'm sure there are a few mixers deliberately putting in such content, and a few that also can monitor it.

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