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post #12481 of 16437 Old 06-13-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Don, everything is relative based on budget. I have not heard the M126Be's, but know they are an improvement on the M106 as far as sound quality due to the drivers and crossovers. Same cabinet and basically the same FR as the M106's. I wouldn't spend the extra money for the Be's if you can get an equally great deal on M106's which will cost considerably less than the Be's.

I'm in the process of adding surrounds and center to my F208's. I considered the M106's but decided to spend more and get the F206's for more bass and power handling. I didn't like the idea of spending extra money for stands for the M106's when I can get F206's for a bit more than M106's plus stands.

I'm sure the new Be speakers are better than the non Be Performa 3 line, I just can't justify the price difference. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd have Salon2's. If I was still working as an audio pro, I'd spend as much as I could and get the best I could afford. For me, the F208's, a C208 and F206's will be good enough for my budget and listening pleasure.

Bottom line, if I were you, I'd get the F206's over the M106's or M126Be's.
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Agree about poor stability of monitors on stands. Floor standing speakers take up the same physical space and you get a whole lot more speaker and cabinet.
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Don, I am not the best to respond because I have heard only the M126Be's, and none of the others you referenced. I think the M126Be's are good enough for critical listening and have enough bass to satisfy. Even my Salon2's don't output bass like a subwoofer does. I've found speaker preferences to be very subjective, and heavily affected by room interactions. Let me experience another listening session with the M126Be's and give you my final observation.

Sorry for the non-answer, but I endeavor to be thoroughly transparent and agenda free.
Thanks guys. This is for our master bedroom, which is also where I work from home evenings/weekends (yes, no life), simply no room for a sub and no real desire to add one. My plan was F36's, but F35's would fit (physically better), and F206's would be a step up but probably not worth it for a "background" system. The angst revolves around what speaker set to give to my son (gave a set to his older brother, but don't have a spare set now) and what to replace it with balanced against reasonable budget. My original plans went a bit sideways so now I am waffling between giving him my old KEF bedroom system or the slightly newer Infinity Alpha family room system.

I imagine the M126Be's would work well in the bedroom but are likely overkill, just saw a good deal and always have that "get the best you can afford" attitude from Dad (R.I.P.) But I would want floorstanders in the family room if I replace those instead. I'll probably stick to my original plan and move the furniture a hair to fit the F36's instead of F35's (though then could probably fit F206's, arrrgh!) If I replace the family room system I'll have to pick up a C25 (or C205) as well, natch. The bedroom speakers are only about 6' apart and I can live without a center (no good place for it anyway' it is balanced on top of an old tube TV now, and that TV is overdue for replacing).

My main system in the media room is set. That room is heavily treated and isolated from the rest of the house. I have had more limited LF extension in my sides and surrounds for most of my HT systems (say the past ten years or so; before that it was pretty much stereo). After switching from my Maggies to Revels and using F206's for surround/rear duty I do not think I could go back to small surrounds speakers. The bit (octave, actually) of extra bass makes a big difference in the sound (assuming the mix does it justice). I was lucky JohnS had a quartet of F206's available at a good price when I got my Salon2's. In for a penny, in for... many pounds! I consider myself very lucky I do not have space for Studio2's or Salon2's on the side walls or I'd probably be a lot poorer right now. The media room is well-sub'd with four Rythmik F12's to supplement the Salon2/F206 mix of speakers down there. That is likely my final system (barring winning the lottery).

Now to decide which system to give to my son and that will guide which way I hop with the new speakers... I'll probably pass on the M126Be's (sob) and go with F36/C25 or F206/C205 for the family room, keeping my old KEF's (which are showing their age a bit).

Thanks very much for all the advice, excellent points made! - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #12482 of 16437 Old 06-13-2018, 03:24 PM
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Hey Don, not sure what you're using to drive the new speakers. You might consider powered monitors. I've heard JBL LSR 705P's sound very similar to the 708P's but are much smaller. I'm using an old pair of Mackie HR 624's and an HR626 for a center channel in our master bedroom. They all sit on my wife's 78" wide horizontal chest of drawers, no speaker stands. TV is hung on the wall above, it's a killer 3 channel system. You could get JBL LSR 3 series and save a lot of money. https://www.jbl.com/3-series-mkii-studio-monitors/

You could keep what you have now and set your son up with a new system based on the size of his space. Lots of audio pros and musicians are using the LSR 3 series monitors. You son could add a sub or two and have a heck of a system, do surround etc depending on his new digs.

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post #12483 of 16437 Old 06-13-2018, 08:27 PM
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That string of quotes do not follow a contiguous post-n-response correlation.
I know. I chose them to create a point. However, you and I are talking past each other. I am not criticizing any of the people you list nor am I questioning their work. The circle of confusion was an term promoted by Floyd Toole to describe the absence of quantitatively definable standards in the chain from recording to reproduction. It says nothing about the quality of the work, itself.
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post #12484 of 16437 Old 06-13-2018, 09:18 PM
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the biggest coc is eq imo...the dsp is what helps some recordings and murders others. if you have speakers that are enjoyable w/out dsp/eq...then you have a winner in my book. if you are buying 5k+ speakers and eq'ing the crap out of em...I dont see the point.
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post #12485 of 16437 Old 06-13-2018, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Hey Don, not sure what you're using to drive the new speakers. You might consider powered monitors. I've heard JBL LSR 705P's sound very similar to the 708P's but are much smaller. I'm using an old pair of Mackie HR 624's and an HR626 for a center channel in our master bedroom. They all sit on my wife's 78" wide horizontal chest of drawers, no speaker stands. TV is hung on the wall above, it's a killer 3 channel system. You could get JBL LSR 3 series and save a lot of money. https://www.jbl.com/3-series-mkii-studio-monitors/

You could keep what you have now and set your son up with a new system based on the size of his space. Lots of audio pros and musicians are using the LSR 3 series monitors. You son could add a sub or two and have a heck of a system, do surround etc depending on his new digs.
Hi Rex,

Thanks for the thoughts, really appreciate it!

Your bedroom system sounds great! Our bedroom system is an ancient Yamaha AVR and old tube (CRT) TV in a big upright corner cabinet. No place for speakers so they sit to the sides. There very little room (maybe 10" wide, 12" if I move some the cabinet) and no way am I re-arranging the entire room. The family room uses an older Sony ES AVR (running Audyssey XT) but an Emotiva XPA-3 for LCR. That Sony is one of the very few (if not only) receivers I've owned that pooped out trying to run my speakers (Infinity Alphas, not that hard a load, and really didn't like my Maggies). It is a great example for all those decrying multichannel (de)ratings; power drops from 100+ W/ch in stereo to ~30 W/ch with all five driven. None of my other AVRs (Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha plus a myriad of older stereo receivers) had problems.

Mackie, hadn't thought about that, even though I've used lots of Mackie gear including the sound boards and monitor systems in our church (which a friend and I purchased and installed many years ago). The JBL option is an idea, too; I was shying away from getting new for the kid since his older brother got hand-me downs. Besides, shame on you for trying to talk me out of new toys! Anyway, he's moving into a new apartment, a room that is kitchen/dining/living combined that is 22' or so long (plus open to the kitchen) and about 11' wide. System will be on the long wall. All hard surfaces (composite floors, bare walls for now) so it's loud (we're discussing making some panels). He isn't going to need a "big" system. He's getting my Pioneer SC-27, top of the line in its day, mainly because I am too lazy to pull that $#@! Sony and replace it in the family room. The family room system does not see much use, but my wife wants a decent system in there (love that woman!) so didn't want to downsize.

I need to think about the little JBLs; interesting idea. I had about decided on F36/C25 or F206/C205 for the family room and passing the Infinity setup to him. I can get the Revels in walnut instead of black to sweeten the deal -- my son likes the black Infinity's, and my wife likes the wood look. Every time I have "cheaped out" on a system (rare) I have regretted it, and I like having an extra "good" system as a backup just in case. (Though it has been a looong time I have been without my main system, sans the time my Maggies were in storage for lack of room to set them up. The last serious down time was when my Phase Linear 700 decided to short the output transistors and apply the + rail across my Maggies. Fixed and sold the amp, awesome self-restraint, since it was the third time that amp self-destructed and what I really wanted to do was use it for target practice! Instead I sold it for what I had in it to a band after I fixed it and added a bit more protection -- never heard back so guess it worked for them. I also repaired the Maggies and they ran for a number of years more until l upgraded to bigger Maggies.)

Still cogitating... - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #12486 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 07:49 AM
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Don, I think you know the best option is to go F206/C205 since you have the XPA-3 for L/C/R. Folks say the C208 is a better center due to the WTMW vs MTM. Go all in and get the big center! Heck get F208's and never have to upgrade again.

I'm so good at spending other peoples money, lol.
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post #12487 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Don, I think you know the best option is to go F206/C205 since you have the XPA-3 for L/C/R. Folks say the C208 is a better center due to the WTMW vs MTM. Go all in and get the big center! Heck get F208's and never have to upgrade again.

I'm so good at spending other peoples money, lol.
Stay away from me.

The AVR forced me to buy an amp, but it comes in handy since the Revels are not the easiest load, so it will be good to have now. Love to go for the F208's but reality/practicality says they are a little too big, too pricey (even with a great deal the F206/C205 combo is well above my original budget), and just overkill for the family room (mostly used by my wife to watch old B&W movies). Plus going that route I need to save for a sub (would not get immediately -- and don't tell me that is a further argument for F208's!) Would really like to get the C208 but would have to wait a few months, probably the end of the year, and again would be overkill for this application. But, I have more space to fit the F206's in the family room, so am leaning that way. F35's would fit right in the bedroom spots, have to work to get anything bigger in there, but thinking just run the KEF's 'til they die. I think the AVR up there is over twenty years old!

Still contemplating but need to decide soon as he's moving out this weekend and I'd like to get him set up. Wife will yell if I pull the family room system and take too long replacing it (after yelling about putting big speakers in there to begin with, natch. )

*** I want to thank all those who have responding in public and private! And be assured I am in touch with my local dealer (our own John S) who is being absolutely fabulous with advice and patient with my endless requests for quotes and what-if's.
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post #12488 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
the biggest coc is eq imo...the dsp is what helps some recordings and murders others. if you have speakers that are enjoyable w/out dsp/eq...then you have a winner in my book. if you are buying 5k+ speakers and eq'ing the crap out of em...I dont see the point.
If you're happy with your winner, then you don't need to see (well, actually, hear) the point or understand it.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #12489 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 12:33 PM
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I need to think about the little JBLs; interesting idea. I had about decided on F36/C25 or F206/C205 for the family room and passing the Infinity setup to him. I can get the Revels in walnut instead of black to sweeten the deal -- my son likes the black Infinity's, and my wife likes the wood look. Every time I have "cheaped out" on a system (rare) I have regretted it, and I like having an extra "good" system as a backup just in case. (Though it has been a looong time I have been without my main system, sans the time my Maggies were in storage for lack of room to set them up. The last serious down time was when my Phase Linear 700 decided to short the output transistors and apply the + rail across my Maggies. Fixed and sold the amp, awesome self-restraint, since it was the third time that amp self-destructed and what I really wanted to do was use it for target practice! Instead I sold it for what I had in it to a band after I fixed it and added a bit more protection -- never heard back so guess it worked for them. I also repaired the Maggies and they ran for a number of years more until l upgraded to bigger Maggies.)

Still cogitating... - Don
I was considering the small powered JBL's for my game room but they did not seem to have the auto-power on or standby and wiring was going to be pain. I did not think it made sense to get the 705 and using the Oppo 205 XLR's because I suspect it digitizes the signal for equalization in the speaker.


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post #12490 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 12:58 PM
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.. The circle of confusion was an term promoted by Floyd Toole to describe the absence of quantitatively definable standards in the chain from recording to reproduction.
Here (link) is comprehensive overview of professional industry standard (most relavent today being EBU R68 and SMPTE RP155) alignment levels correlated to the universal dBu scale for nominal (electrical) interchange.

http://www.thesoundmanifesto.co.uk/W...lReference.pdf

The Waves Dorrough Meter


These meters provide precision loudness monitoring by graphically displaying the actual "density" of the sound and the amount of compression being applied to the signal in real time.

Kal when time permits, would you please give me an example of the "lack of standards" you are referring to...thanks !

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post #12491 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Here (link) is comprehensive overview of professional industry standard (most relavent today being EBU R68 and SMPTE RP155) alignment levels correlated to the universal dBu scale for nominal (electrical) interchange.

http://www.thesoundmanifesto.co.uk/W...lReference.pdf

The Waves Dorrough Meter


These meters provide precision loudness monitoring by graphically displaying the actual "density" of the sound and the amount of compression being applied to the signal in real time.

Kal when time permits, would you please give me an example of the "lack of standards" you are referring to...thanks !
Yeah, level standards for pro audio have been around for a long time. I started working as a recording engineer in 1974 and learned 0 VU = + 4 dBu (or dBm as it was at the time). VU meters were all that was available until peak meters came along. Digital recording and playback formats didn't exist yet. All of these new metering tools are great and it would be wonderful if everyone understood and used them. That's not the case.

However, this has nothing to do with the circle of confusion which refers to the variety of loudspeakers being used that have widely varying on and off axis frequency responses. Room acoustics and their affect on the loudspeaker response also comes into play. There are no standards for speakers and room acoustics used by audio professionals and consumers. Have you read this? It explains things clearly.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/1...confusion.html

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post #12492 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 01:34 PM
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Not sure when this thread devolved into a discussion on the intricacies of studio recording, but I would bet there are better threads for it than here.

So a few updates:

-According to my dealer, and in response to questions here, Revel has no intention at this time to build an F226Be, nor a Center channel using the Be tweeter or ceramic drivers. I was also told that the F228Be is back ordered until late August, at this point.

-I demoed the M126Be against the F208, and then listened to the F228Be for a good long time. To my ears, I found the F208 to be more my liking. Interestingly, the M126Be sounded quite hot on the top end with a bit more chestiness in male voices than is natural. The airiness and spaciousness was superb, and imaging was good, as well. As far as a cohesive natural sound (in this setup, to my ears, in that room, etc, etc.) the F208 won me over. The M126Be certainly had apparent refinements and exposed inner detail as good as anything I've heard.

To be sure, I enjoyed the F228Be more than either of them, but they are certainly not in my budget.
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post #12493 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rex Anderson View Post
Yeah, level standards for pro audio have been around for a long time. I started working as a recording engineer in 1974 and learned 0 VU = + 4 dBu (or dBm as it was at the time). VU meters were all that was available until peak meters came along. Digital recording and playback formats didn't exist yet. All of these new metering tools are great and it would be wonderful if everyone understood and used them. That's not the case.

However, this has nothing to do with the circle of confusion which refers to the variety of loudspeakers being used that have widely varying on and off axis frequency responses. Room acoustics and their affect on the loudspeaker response also comes into play. There are no standards for speakers and room acoustics used by audio professionals and consumers. Have you read this? It explains things clearly.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/1...confusion.html
Thanks.

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post #12494 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 04:43 PM
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New thread for side discussion of recording quality

To keep this thread "cleaner", I created a new thread for any continuing discussion of the side topic regarding recording quality and standards. Here is the link:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...l#post56344686
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post #12495 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 05:59 PM
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To keep this thread "cleaner", I created a new thread for any continuing discussion of the side topic regarding recording quality and standards. Here is the link:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post56344686
Thanks. Now I can ignore it.
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post #12496 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 07:15 PM
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Thanks. Now I can ignore it.
Yes, I figured as much. The topic will probably be much less interesting standing on its own.
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post #12497 of 16437 Old 06-14-2018, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by newrival View Post
Not sure when this thread devolved into a discussion on the intricacies of studio recording, but I would bet there are better threads for it than here.

So a few updates:

-According to my dealer, and in response to questions here, Revel has no intention at this time to build an F226Be, nor a Center channel using the Be tweeter or ceramic drivers. I was also told that the F228Be is back ordered until late August, at this point.

-I demoed the M126Be against the F208, and then listened to the F228Be for a good long time. To my ears, I found the F208 to be more my liking. Interestingly, the M126Be sounded quite hot on the top end with a bit more chestiness in male voices than is natural. The airiness and spaciousness was superb, and imaging was good, as well. As far as a cohesive natural sound (in this setup, to my ears, in that room, etc, etc.) the F208 won me over. The M126Be certainly had apparent refinements and exposed inner detail as good as anything I've heard.

To be sure, I enjoyed the F228Be more than either of them, but they are certainly not in my budget.
Interesting, I listened to Peter Cetera, Mark Knopfler, and a James Taylor on my M16Be’s and did not notice any chestiness. What electronics was your dealer using to serve the music and drive the speakers?
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post #12498 of 16437 Old 06-15-2018, 10:30 AM
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Interesting, I listened to Peter Cetera, Mark Knopfler, and a James Taylor on my M16Be’s and did not notice any chestiness. What electronics was your dealer using to serve the music and drive the speakers?
Yeah, that's why I wanted to clarify that I recognize the possibility of a dozen+ factors that could affect the listening. I believe a large part of it was the room (though two separate rooms were tried), and what all was packed in there. I listened to them on a Mark Levinson 585 integrated and a 536 amp/53 preamp combo. All was Tidal Master streamed by way of a Roon Nucleus.

I have an a-typical track that I use (Temecula Sunrise by The Dirty Projectors) that really highlights (read: overemphasizes) bloom in the male register. Their recordings are mostly fantastic, but this track has him close mic'ed and a little hot. Timbre and bloom becomes very apparent, very quickly, especially with the layering happening under his voice.

At any rate, a demo in a different room, on a different day, with different equipment would be a different experience. I can only relate what I heard that day, and should not be seen as a scientific, or even wholly reliable, characterization of the inherent qualities of the M126Be.

Addendum: I will add, and this may be important, that everything I heard that day had the slightest bit more warmth (of varying degrees) in the midrange than I am used to with my reference(s) at home. So that could very well be pointed to as much of what I heard.

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post #12499 of 16437 Old 06-15-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
Interesting, I listened to Peter Cetera, Mark Knopfler, and a James Taylor on my M16Be’s and did not notice any chestiness. What electronics was your dealer using to serve the music and drive the speakers?
I also just noticed you're using a Bel Canto 2.7, and I have to wonder how much more I would've enjoyed the whole experience through that. It's neutrality with musicality are the very reasons it's never going anywhere (though, I really was drawn to it originally for the HT bypass, to be forthright). That is my personal DAC/Pre of choice, and have yet to be wowed by anything newer than it to make me switch. Super detailed, neutral, and utterly musical, to my ears.
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post #12500 of 16437 Old 06-15-2018, 09:20 PM
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I also just noticed you're using a Bel Canto 2.7, and I have to wonder how much more I would've enjoyed the whole experience through that. It's neutrality with musicality are the very reasons it's never going anywhere (though, I really was drawn to it originally for the HT bypass, to be forthright). That is my personal DAC/Pre of choice, and have yet to be wowed by anything newer than it to make me switch. Super detailed, neutral, and utterly musical, to my ears.
At times I listen to 2ch through my Marantz surround processor/DAC for the ease of access to Tidal: my Revels do not sound as delightful when I do.

I don’t disagree with the notion of diminishing returns, but I gain more enjoyment from my speakers each time I purchase improved electronics. They’re costly, but music is more enjoyable. Good speakers enjoy good electronics. And good recordings!
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post #12501 of 16437 Old 06-16-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post

At times I listen to 2ch through my Marantz surround processor/DAC for the ease of access to Tidal: my Revels do not sound as delightful when I do.

I don’t disagree with the notion of diminishing returns, but I gain more enjoyment from my speakers each time I purchase improved electronics. They’re costly, but music is more enjoyable. Good speakers enjoy good electronics. And good recordings!
I was really just reflecting on how much I like the Bel Canto 2.7, not trying to convey anything else but that. The equient I demod the M126 on are very, by all accounts, and the equipment used to develop the very speakers in discussion. I was just thinking aloud.

At any rate, have you thought about using your 2.7 in HT bypass with a Roon or tidal device instead of your marantz's dac?
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post #12502 of 16437 Old 06-16-2018, 07:34 PM
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I was really just reflecting on how much I like the Bel Canto 2.7, not trying to convey anything else but that. The equient I demod the M126 on are very, by all accounts, and the equipment used to develop the very speakers in discussion. I was just thinking aloud.

At any rate, have you thought about using your 2.7 in HT bypass with a Roon or tidal device instead of your marantz's dac?
Out of respect for the thread topic I’ll end my comments with this. First, I did not make my comments because I thought you were inferring anything, I apologize for not being clear on that. I have considered using my 2.7 to convert a digital tidal signal. I’m awaiting clarification on a rumor that Bel Canto might be releasing a fully Roon compliant and full MQA unfolding DAC.

Here’s where it relates to Revel Ultima2 speakers: when you posses fine speakers that allow you to hear slight differences, you hunger for each incrementally discernible improvement in your gear. That you can afford, I should add!
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post #12503 of 16437 Old 06-16-2018, 08:22 PM
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Got a visit from @SteveH today

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post #12504 of 16437 Old 06-16-2018, 08:39 PM
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Got a visit from @SteveH today

That looks a lot like my setup! Same cabinet (different finish). I have F208s and will be getting a C208 for center asap.


Enjoy!
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post #12505 of 16437 Old 06-16-2018, 10:07 PM
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Got a visit from @SteveH today

Sound as good as they look?

Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 - Revel M126Be's, C205, M106's - Rythmik F12SE - Revel C763L's
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post #12506 of 16437 Old 06-17-2018, 03:56 AM
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Got a visit from @SteveH today

Looks great! Nice clean setup

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post #12507 of 16437 Old 06-17-2018, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Got a visit from @SteveH today

How does the Lex receiver (Class G) drive them? I just got in a few pair of M126Be's (the bookshelves). We should compare them to your Gem2's and post accordingly. Inquiring minds want to know...
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post #12508 of 16437 Old 06-17-2018, 05:22 AM
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Not sure when this thread devolved into a discussion on the intricacies of studio recording, but I would bet there are better threads for it than here.

So a few updates:

-According to my dealer, and in response to questions here, Revel has no intention at this time to build an F226Be, nor a Center channel using the Be tweeter or ceramic drivers. I was also told that the F228Be is back ordered until late August, at this point.

-I demoed the M126Be against the F208, and then listened to the F228Be for a good long time. To my ears, I found the F208 to be more my liking. Interestingly, the M126Be sounded quite hot on the top end with a bit more chestiness in male voices than is natural. The airiness and spaciousness was superb, and imaging was good, as well. As far as a cohesive natural sound (in this setup, to my ears, in that room, etc, etc.) the F208 won me over. The M126Be certainly had apparent refinements and exposed inner detail as good as anything I've heard.

To be sure, I enjoyed the F228Be more than either of them, but they are certainly not in my budget.
A few points. I spoke with the head of sales at the Munich HiFi show. He mentioned that dealers are making a lot of requests for adding a center Be speaker. So out of the gate, Harman said they had no intentions of making a Be center. I too gave him my request. As of May 10th in Munich, he said they are starting to reevaluate the need. IF sales on the Be series continue to be brisk, I predict they will eventually make a Be center. My free advice to them was to make their decision sooner than later. But nothing at Harman happens fast inside of a $7B company. So I bet we are talking at least a year+ out whenever/IF they decided to do so.

Because a Be center wasn't offered, I've only sold black and the walnut so that I could use the matching color of the C205 and C208. I also only put black and walnut in inventory. By the way, the bookshelf white looks AMAZING in the flesh.

Re: the F208 and F226Be comparison. By far, the biggest variables (95%+) is the room and placement. I too have heard the F228 in a "hot" listening session. In fact, they were "hot" on the topend at the Munich show. The Revel staff ears work; they heard it too. But nearly always, I've heard them sound spot on. Revel prides itself of installing drivers that meet the tight tolerances. So that's not a factor. The only remaining difference worth noting is the room and to a lesser degree, the placement. Therefore if you measured your dealers room (or the room in Munich), I bet the farm that the ROOM /placement interaction is "hot" and not the speakers. i.e., the room/placement is the problem.

Analogy: a more reveling/transparent speakers will make great recordings sound better. They also make grainy and hash recordings sound worse. It is why a more transparent speaker can make a bright room sound "hotter". I've heard it with other speakers as well including the Salon2, DALI Epicon, Thiel's, etc.

So this brings me to my next point. People should not buy a damn thing based off of what they hear at their dealers showroom. To do so will give someone a false sense of what the speakers actually sound like. I'll be more blunt. It's meaningless to conclude anything unless you have a good understanding of that room. Of course the F226Be's won in the blind over the F208's with series of trained listeners. I suppose their could be an outlier that disagrees (and there is a possibility you could be that outlier). But I doubt it. Your ears most likely will correlate with every other age, sex, or ethnicity. So I predict you too will pick the F226Be in a non-"hot" room. Now if the engineers at Harman were glorified kit builders with no tools or research at their disposal, I suppose they could have pooched the design. God only knows there are some atrociously sounding overpriced speakers in the market.

The reason for the post was simply to let the readers know that listening to speakers in someone else's room and concluding anything is almost meaningless. I too enjoy going to shows all around the world for fun. But I know that well designed loudspeakers sound a lot closer than anyone would realize. If you ever get a chance to do so ABX listening tests at Harman's faculty, do it. Because even in the blind, it's an eye opening experience. (pun intended).
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post #12509 of 16437 Old 06-17-2018, 05:23 AM
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How does the Lex receiver (Class G) drive them? I just got in a few pair of M126Be's (the bookshelves). We should compare them to your Gem2's and post accordingly. Inquiring minds want to know...

In World Cup soccer viewing last night, the Lex did great! My wife’s a big soccer fan (played in college) so it’ll be a bit until I can really put them through their paces.

(Very) small point but cosmetically the Lex really looks good and matches well with the 228’s

Also gotta run Dirac at some point, which is tougher than it sounds. Since it’s a bit longer process than audyssey or ARC finding an hour....to myself .... where no one wants to use the TV (we only have one).....seems downright impossible during summer vacation

It’s always tough for me to find time to attend one of your GTG’s with kids activities, but if you want to borrow the Gem2’s and put them against the 126be your more than welcome!
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post #12510 of 16437 Old 06-17-2018, 01:08 PM
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Paul McGowen Doesn’t Like Revel

I generally enjoy watching the daily YouTube videos that Paul McGowen of PS Audio does but last week when queried about some speaker choices, he discounted Revel speakers as “not highly resolving”. I had to admit, I found this a bit odd because it’s one of the traits I have come to value in the Revel lineup. I may at times accuse them of being unforgiving but this is generally related to source/room issues. I like that they sound very different with varying source materials which to me, indicates they don’t overwhelm with too much of an over-riding house sound but accurately reflect what’s input to them. They also permit me to identify clearly equipment changes I’ve made upstream. I guess I need to hear the big infinity’s some day. To each his own I guess.

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